goodbye, almost 5 million ukrainians are currently abroad, during the last months the authorities at various levels have been signaling in every way that those who... "need to return, because the economy will not build itself, the budget will not be filled by itself. but how to stimulate refugees to return home and will the country be able to ensure this return? we are talking about this on bbc ukraine, i am olga polamaryuk. in the third year of the war, ukraine faces many challenges, and one of them is how to return those who went abroad due to russian aggression. from since the beginning of the full-scale invasion of russia , more than six million

ukrainians left abroad, mainly women and children. more than 3.5 million have returned, these are data as of february of this year, and due to hostilities, occupation, some people have nowhere to return, and then they become internal migrants, currently 9%. where do ukrainians return from? statistics say, mostly from poland, hungary and romania. and for many , ukraine does not look like a safe place to live, for some there is simply no one... to return, others are worried about whether the state will be able to provide their children a full-fledged education. my colleagues talked to a woman who went abroad for two weeks and stayed for years. are you ready to go back? let's listen to her story. when i went abroad, in fact, i went there for two weeks. i still, well, i didn't want to stay there, well, as they say, it's good at home, i didn't want to go abroad. but when i arrived there, everyone loved me. the child, that the child is better here, and all

that, but even when we were sitting on the street, where i am now abroad, it is a swedish man there among the mountains, and when the cargo was approaching and grim began to shout that everyone was sitting normally, but he was leaving me, you know, and i was persuaded, and i remained a child even if there, well, well, for the time being, i’ll say yes, i don’t need to be called, i’m ready to return myself, if it... was safe. refugees like oksana should return to ukraine. the government, in particular, seeks this. previously , president zelenskyy called on those who left to return and live by the rule: either you work or you fight, and even offered an option when social assistance for refugees in europe could go to the budget of ukraine. but, ukrainians must want to return home, that is, the state must create such conditions... so that each and every one

who wants to return to ukraine would feel their need, there must be appropriate incentives, for example, security, better living conditions, opportunities for self-realization , prime minister denys shmyhal said this at a recent meeting of the cabinet of ministers, but if ukrainians decide to return, what will await them, especially children, because an important factor of return is safety and education for children, and what about shelter and... educational process, my fellow bbc correspondent halyna korba investigated this topic. from the point of view of the contribution that ukrainians can make to the ukrainian economy, it must be understood that returning parents must first of all take care of the safety of their children and that their children have physical access to schools and kindergartens in order to leave them there and go to work. with this in ukraine, now the situation is not very clear-cut, because on the one hand, over the past two years , really, but... the ukrainian authorities took care

to maximize the number of shelters in schools. according to the latest data from the ministry of education, almost 90% of schools are equipped with shelters, more than 80% of kindergartens are equipped with shelters. but you need to understand two things. firstly, in the frontline areas, schools cannot work even with shelters, because there is too much risk of shelling, in the rear areas, often these shelters, which are on paper, do not always look sufficient in practice. safe, and this is either shelter in neighboring premises 100-150 m away, or shelter, for example, on the first floor, the windows are covered with sandbags, and this is not for everyone a suitable option, in addition, parents are worried about whether there are places in schools and kindergartens, and the latest data show that even in the rear regions, where many internally displaced persons have moved, there are places, that is, even in... kyiv is currently studying at 10

00 children less than before the war, and the parents with whom we spoke claim that in the prestigious kyiv gymnasium, where... before it was not possible to get a job, but you can safely bring a child and find a place for him in the class, that is, for parents, who are now considering the possibility of returning to ukraine, are key the factors are the availability of a school and kindergarten, as well as the issue of security, and if everything is in order with the accessibility of the infrastructure, even in the rear regions, when many ukrainians have moved from the frontline regions, then the issue of security is the most irritating and difficult and... from the point of view of provision of storage, their quality and from the point of view, in principle, of the risks of shelling, which are stored on the territory of ukraine. so, as we heard from my colleague, many ukrainians choose not to return because they do not see safe conditions for themselves and their

families, but economists say that children in a country are a very important factor for the development of the economy, even children who do not work themselves stimulate the economy of the country where they live, and here is... what is known about this effect in numbers, according to a pre-war study of the ukrainian institute of the future, in order to raise a child from birth to 18 years of age, the average ukrainian family spends on taxes, goods, and services from 80 to 100 thousand dollars. so, people for the economy are more consumption, more taxes and additional hands on the labor market, so that ukraine took place as a state, the budget was replenished. able-bodied people are needed, experts explain. and here's what the co-founder of the institute of the future, anatoly amelin, says about it? a person who comes to the country spends money, if he earns, he spends money in this country, or brings savings with him, also spends, buys

real estate, cars and so on. so for america, i've seen a few studies, and generally the average number, the average amount that one spends, that one invests. migrant to the american economy, the long-term effect is 1.7 million dollars, and if you multiply that every year from 8,000 to 10,200 migrants come to america, well, on average somewhere around a million, we understand what a big part of the american economy migrant workers are, and today for poland, which also today has a migration policy, they see ukrainians as labor resources and as an instrument of consumption growth for their economy, and they... invest in ensuring that ukrainians stay, they go to free education, give some help, they socialize people so that they stay and created the economy, what does it give to the citizens of poland? the larger the economy , the more the economy grows , the more the poles themselves earn, the more taxes, the more

social services they can receive at the expense of the budget and so on, that is why migration policy is very important, so the governments of other countries encourage ukrainians to stay abroad, and this is... not only about poland, people are paid money, some rent housing for free, and if compared in ukraine, internally displaced persons receive 2-300 hryvnias monthly payments, in terms of less than 100 €. abroad, in germany or italy , they pay 300-500 €, and this is for each member of the family, but even such sums are a significant burden on the ukrainian budget, so last year it took more than 73 billion hryvnias this is a serious burden on the budget, so the amount of money and the number of those who will pay social assistance have been reduced. but does this mean that ukrainians should not return? not at all. experts interviewed by the bbc emphasize that the state has

develop a specific strategy for economic recovery. and there are statistics that show that the majority of returning ukrainians cannot find work and there is... the question of what they can live on, in europe they receive some allowances, help and so on. in ukraine, we do not even have the opportunity to pay very close allowances, and when we talk about work, well, let's be honest, today in ukraine, on the one hand, there is a very large shortage of specialties, people for work specialties, on the other hand, people cannot to find a job, why, because there is a shortage of... highly qualified engineering specialties, but a very large number of people with such specialties are at the front today, that is , when we carried out mobilization, we already attracted a very large number of people to combat operations, moreover , today there are 3,000 entrepreneurs, also at the front, these people do not create added value for the economy, they

protect the economy today, so when we tell people to return to ukraine, there is a question: what will they live for, and where will they live, where they will work and how to integrate them. into the ukrainian economic system , the authorities do not give answers to this yet, but they say, come back, yes, so we see that there are many challenges for ukrainians, and yet to return to... home in the event of the end of the war is planned by the majority of ukrainians who found temporary asylum in european countries, this is evidenced by the data of a large study of the office of the united nations high commissioner for refugees. among internally displaced persons, the percentage of those planning to return home is even higher, but any return is possible only after returning to where. the other day , the analytical center for economic strategy even published its own extensive analysis of the situation of ukrainian citizens. who received temporary protection abroad. the center's report also contains several recommendations on

how to encourage ukrainians to return to their homeland. in particular, actively cooperate with the countries of the european union. as quickly as possible to rebuild the regions affected by the war, to help during the reconstruction to people from the affected and occupied regions, as well as to support effective communication with compatriots through foreign diplomatic missions. as a dilemma faced by the refugees, sums up my colleague, bbc correspondent halyna korba. the key conclusion is this: people are the basis of the economy, so the return of ukrainians, including ukrainians with children, is really crucial for the ukrainian economy to grow, even during wartime, i.e. people pay taxes, people spend money, people increase demand , but it is necessary to understand that urging ukrainians to return. the ukrainian authorities, apparently, do not have in mind those categories that are vulnerable, who, on the contrary

, need support, additional payments, solving the issue of their housing, etc., regarding the issue of infrastructure, for example, educational infrastructure, if parents are worried about whether their children will have enough places in schools and kindergartens in safe regions, statistics show that there will be enough, but of course, first of all, ukrainians will... it is necessary to pay attention to security factors, because the security risks are quite high, even in the rear the danger of shelling and death still remains in the regions. well, if you are interested in this, i advise you to read galilyna's article on our website bbc.ua. burden or salvation, do the calls of the authorities to return ukrainians from abroad make sense. the country needs taxpayers, and people need security guarantees, and in... language for life and raising children, so while the shelling continues, until the hot war subsides, ukrainians

will develop internally, torn between the choice, to return home, or to stay abroad, so subscribe to our pages on social networks, so as not to miss the most important news, we are on facebook, instagram and tiktok, on youtube you can watch our episode if you missed it on the air, comment, we carefully read all comments, and we say goodbye to you, bye tomorrow, see you, as usual, at 21: all is well, ukraine lives with news from the front, ukraine lives with news from the russian federation, where car processing plants are on fire, we follow what is happening on the border

of the russian federation, already with ukraine, where by according to some information, the rdk, the russian volunteer corps and the legion of freedom of russia, which came to the elections in this way, are currently working. ukraine also lives with international news. according to the testimony of some french publications, macron says that by the end of this year, some french military personnel may... find themselves in ukraine, namely in odesa. we also analyze various statements from the russian federation, putin, lavrov, and medvedev, who said that ukraine should capitulate, spoke about the upcoming negotiations this week. this project speaks great lviv. i say good evening to all the viewers of the tv channel, who are now joining us and introduce all the guests of our studio as quickly as possible, this is the largest discussion platform in ukraine. so, anatoly khrepchynskyi. expert , deputy general director of milteritech company , good evening, taras rad, first time in our

studio, political scientist, we say good evening to you, good evening, ksenia klim, volunteer, we say good evening to you too, oksana yurynets, people's deputy of ukraine, eighth convocation ex-head of the permanent delegation of ukraine in the nato parliamentary assembly, when we are already in that nato, we believe that sooner or later it will happen, better sooner. mykola buchyn, political scientist, professor of the national university, lviv polytechnic and... we say good evening to you, olena zhivko, head of the veteran organization of the association of volunteers. vitaly smilka, serviceman of the armed forces of ukraine, head of the eto horodochchyna union. mrs. elena, today we have a lot of geopolitical... topics and discussions of the front, but i would still like to start with a topic that is close to all of us, especially close to you, the day of ukrainian volunteers, people, well, probably thanks to whom our state stands in the first place, and we in our country in ukraine, we understand that, but we have to broadcast it and to the outside, to the whole world,

because it seems to me that many people underestimate the contribution of volunteers to what happened, after all, everyone who went to... the ranks of the armed forces in the first days of this full-scale aggression, they are volunteers, i, if i'm not mistaken, vitaly smilka about it in some of ours broadcasts said that in principle this is the entire ukrainian army, these are all volunteers who fight for our country, of course, today i would like to congratulate everyone who, following the call of the heart , stood up for the defense of the country, whether it was in the 14th year or it was in the 22nd year, because people could really stand up, we saw full queues to our military officers, we saw. how our voluntary formations were formed in the 14th year, which did not have support from the state for a long time, a truly voluntary movement, it went through such a difficult path, and today we we have gratitude from the ukrainian people and are proud of all the volunteers, but we also remember how difficult it was, how the state did not recognize, did not grant status for a long time, and

nevertheless, despite all these wanderings of the 22nd year, all with injuries from ... with bad health or with good health, everyone went back to the west of their country, i think that today the whole world is talking about the phenomenon of the voluntary movement, recently returned from the united states, where they were trained with the support of the american government, just in time work with veterans, with children, and i will tell you that the whole world is really proud of our country, our phenomenon of voluntary movement, and it is very important that we understand this, we have an incredible army... an incredible army, honor and respect to every professional military man, but being a volunteer is such a certain honor, it is true that when others hesitated, when others were afraid, you went to this army without knowing any definition, for example, i was in the 22nd when i went to the front, the most i i was afraid that the enemy would capture kyiv, divide ukraine, and i would never again i won't see my daughter, because you didn't

think about death, she will distract you, and of course, that is, it was very difficult at that moment, now... maybe it's difficult for those who didn't go to make this decision, but i think that in the future, people should make this choice voluntarily, because it is such a certain honor, to stand up for the defense of their country. this week was marked by a lot of news from muscovy, where let's start with burning refineries of various kinds, there is information from western journalists who say that a large, large percentage, more than 10%. oil refineries as of now, they have been removed from power, or they are not working at full capacity, it is clear that it is difficult to completely destroy them there, mr. anatoliy khrepchynskyi, why is there such a large concentration this week, well, in general, we see that oil refineries are burning somewhere, in ivanovo, it’s outside of moscow, it

’s far away, but in fact the il-76 is falling, and many people in the comments on social networks... write about the fact that, well, there are no such coincidences, well, let’s start with what actually this is such a strategic decision that was made by the account of ukrainian uavs, it should be noted here , because for some time we actively heard from the russian side that the russian su-34, su-35, su-30 are destroyed as if by patriots, as if foreign weapons were provided to our partners, but here it turns out that after all still , the oil refinery...water is also being destroyed, and we see hits on the biriev plant, which made and processed a50 aircraft, so in fact, i think that the strategic decisions that we see on the battlefield are being implemented very actively, and we see that there are several such hints about such important moves on the part of ukraine, which in principle

yes, well, inspire positively about our our next victory, because actually, despite the... some problems that we are facing, i would pay attention to, nevertheless, what exactly our ukrainian weapons destroy strategic objects of the russian federation, which help them get, for example, the same fuel for planes, for other equipment, well, we are talking about our successes, at the same time , the russians immediately in essence, in response, well , sort of publish a video, where they impress patriots, how should we respond to this, ot... said, i quote, this is the head of the air force, this is important, the patriots continue to conduct work in designated areas of the frontline territories. let's start with what war actually entails... for example, the loss of some equipment. let's start with the fact that, for example, russia has repeatedly lost its s-400 and more. therefore, i would not pay attention to russian propaganda in the first place. and

secondly, i would note that we still see that the enemy is being destroyed, and it is better to watch the enemy behind with their planes that are on fire, which, whose engines are on fire, sorry 76, this is an old soviet plane that russia is trying to continue technically. not technically does not continue servicing maintenance continues to operate and actively operate further well any ground technician who released such an aircraft could have seen that there were some problems with the engine and would not have released this aircraft, but there is a command from above to perform combat missions, i.e. to bring weapons, to bring people, and precisely as a result of this, we see how russia is fighting to the last pilot, to the last military one, so let them look behind themselves, the first question for you , what do you think, is in the political context, how does it affect the russian federation, these news from the village of tyotkino, which has already become

known to everyone in ukraine, these burning oil depots, and there are already concrete confirmations, there are videos, yes , they are undercut by this, or are they still firmly on their feet, well, it must be said that in the russian... federation there is a special election operation, a special election operation, which the acting is trying to carry out, well, you see what they address it to ukraine, in the end it can be redirected to putin's regime, because in reality it cannot be called an election, this is first of all, yes, let me remind you that the so-called presidential election will be held in... the russian federation, that is, it is not there are elections, in general the word election cannot be used in russia, because it is a form of discrediting the electoral process as such, and this is ultimately deconstruction, this is what despots do in

relation to democracy by imitating democratic processes, that is what we have been observing for the last few days on the ukrainian-russian border, and these interviews of putin, propagandists, and other subversive things that are happening in the russian federation , without a doubt. they are related to the military operations that are taking place on the territory of russia, the fact that putin is trying in any way to legitimize himself in front of his own society, obviously, that is, it is not a question of whether he will be elected, the numbers have long been ready, painted, here is the question how to present it to society and to the international arena, i hope that the international community will not recognize these elections, at least if you don't have the courage to claim that these elections are illegitimate, then at least you won't be silent... they will talk about the fact that the presidential elections were held in some democratic way, right? it is clear that the events in tyotkino,

the events in general, which are taking place in the bryansk kursk region, are undoubtedly a way for the ukrainian side to influence these processes taking place in the russian federation, but here it must be emphasized that this is done by the citizens of the russian federation. that is, it is in no way a ukrainian activity, that is, it is obvious russian patriots decided to go to the elections in this way, otherwise it is impossible to hold elections in russia, we divide ukrainian drones, russian oppositionists who want real oppositionists, i want to emphasize that there are a lot of so-called russian oppositionists, who cannot be called such, just as there are no elections in russia. the so-called opposition as such also does not exist in the real sense of the democratic process, these are people who are simply waiting for them to become ukrainian

will manage to regain power in russia with their own hands, so in fact this is another form of imperialism, which they profess, but wrap in a democratic wrapper, and this whole movement and effort to maintain in western society the feeling that there is some... there is a democratic opposition, it is an illusion, what, this is the fog that is being spread by the representatives of the so-called russian position, so the real position is those citizens of russia who are now fighting the putin regime together with the armed forces of ukraine, so obviously these people will have the right to decide in the future affairs and... head the government in the russian federation. oksano yurnets, there are many topics, theses, we will be like this, with everyone about what everyone is closest to talking about, you know, i have with... we

always wanted decisive statements from nato, so we wanted not only statements, but to start statements , such as from macron, here we are now getting, as you think, this is macron’s pre-election story, or is it true, well, he somehow agrees his position there with other nato colleagues, and becomes this kind of locomotive that, well, no just words to scare president putin, although, if it will work, we are not against it, but we are also ready to take real action. thank you for the question, a very correct question from the point of view that we are talking today about the actual volunteers who saved ukraine in the 14th and 22nd years. here is macron, we can quote his intentions and statements in different ways, but it must be said that such a trigger, which macron launched, is now trying to seize leadership positions and other heads of state who want to say that they

care more about their society. but speaking it is through the prism of the two main factors of the world, and two world trends, whether a sea of ​​diplomats, various specialists from all over the world, will tell you that there are two main currently defined for the whole world in the paradigm in which societies should act in general, this is a war in in ukraine, this is actually the armed aggression of the russian federation, and the second is climate change, no one is talking about the nuclear threat and something else, everyone is actually saying that the number one thing is the war in ukraine. and that's why even you should pay attention that in france after macron, even li peng, who was a great friend of putin and all his politicians, began to say completely different things, when the world begins to awaken empathy in the leaders of the world, we must not delay, of course, that the elections to the european union, a large european pie of funds, of course that is of interest to every country, and the previous elections showed that germany, taking these

leading positions , bypassed all... key positions, and france, and italy, and you look, the same goes for meloni, the prime minister of italy, she does the same very many bold steps, coming to kyiv, to ukraine, everyone is now trying to win back this leadership position, but in reality, you have to act on your words, you have to say that macron is a very experienced politician, they once said that he is a very young politician in france, but he is very such experienced 80-year-old advisers who help him and how many ... microns macron is, so this is how it happened, what were the motives, this is one story, the result is important to us, we, as a ukrainian nation, which was forced to grow up very quickly , we have to understand, everything that will act in favor of protecting the national interests of ukraine , everything that will help it get more weapons to the ukrainian army, and a more proactive position, this will be the most important thing, you know, these statements of macron served after the actual statements

of trump, who said, what should... europe prepare funds and buy american weapons, i think he was applauded by all the arms manufacturers, because they are definitely not interested in a quick end to the war, it's just that we want it to end as soon as possible, yes, but as of now you can to understand one thing, that macron, showing such a position, cares about his national interests as well, and maybe it will turn out so by the stars, by the lord god, that those who will help ukraine will be happy in their own countries, and i would like that after macron other... leaders on whom we depend a lot, including the german ones who are afraid to hand over the tauruses, and others across the ocean, want and are preparing these decisions, i will tell you frankly, but now is just at the time when we are meeting here, volodymyr klitschko also met in the pentagon when he had the opportunity talk about what is happening in ukraine and ask for weapons, because it is necessary to say frankly that all ukrainians who go abroad should definitely say that the most important thing

is what we need now. these are more weapons to speed up our victory and the end of the war, and we have learned to do something ourselves, but we need a lot of components, we need this help, and delaying every time is the life of our relatives, so as of now , macron has triggered a situation that, i believe, is in favor of ukraine from the point of view of awakening this empathize with other leaders, be more proactive and still understand that there is no need to delay with help, because otherwise... we will have to send our soldiers, or stand on other defense borders, and now for now it is, i consider less blood and with the small efforts they can make and do it for themselves as well, but in general, look, it seems to me that there is already some kind of informational component about sending troops from other countries, it is already happening, i.e.. .