because putin still has a lot of support, and i don't doubt that, by the way, i don't doubt that most of the racists, who are no different from putin, who are just as guilty of the war against ukraine as putin, and which are essentially the personification of stalinism, putinism , brezhnevism and other conventional forms of fascism, yes, all of this is essentially a form of expression of the russians themselves, so this is a key question, why... the last time we heard about the so-called collective responsibility is when the germans were collectively responsible for their own hitler and underwent de-nezification and certain procedures. in one way or another, we have good russian in ukraine, in europe, everywhere they say, it 's not us, so they want such an option that when this war ends.

in some way, that they will avoid collective responsibility for putinism, racism and for their putin and for the war, will this entire organism succeed collectively this time, which is even more aggressive than putin himself, i.e. all these peoples who call themselves russian, bring to some kind of procedure and responsibility, roman, here in fact, there is such a situation, i am more than convinced that... some of the good russians are not good russians at all, so to speak, yes, that is, let's be frank, that some of them were sent by the same kremlin, the same russian special services for that , so that they spread russian peace simply under the guise of allegedly being oppositional and fighting the regime. recently, by the way, a very interesting article appeared in one of the foreign publications, i can’t remember which one, you have to look for it, and it clearly stated why... russia did not close

their borders during this first stage of mobilization in order to incorporate as much as possible into the western world and into other states in general all over all the continents of their agents, who under the guise of refugees, good russians, immigrants and so on and the like could, conditionally in other words, first to spy in favor of the kremlin, and secondly to continue to carry russian peace. i don't see, actually. real repentance from these people, i don't see them apologizing, i don't see them taking responsibility, that they feel responsible, i see that they they are carrying the russian world further, here are all the half-breeds , here are all the cultural pseudo-activists who spread like wildfire all over the world, well, you are only talking about the part that left there and the sviertsi or others, and now i am talking about those who will remain, these hundreds of millions, there is, there will be some mechanism of bringing them to some kind of collective responsibility. de-rasification will be like a process

of tangible responsibility, that is, not just to say that you are to blame for this, but that it was after the second world war, that is, with regard to germany, just as it was with japan, well look, for this to begin with, russia must at least lose the war, if russia only loses the war, and losing the war means dismantling the putin regime and dismantling it in principle. authoritarian regime in russia, then it is possible, if russia conditionally does not lose the war, or remains in a neutral status, that is, there may be an option, we understand 50 for 50, and there is no loss, and there is no gain, then of course not, we see that now we, that, in fact , now russia is slowly returning to the information space of various world media, as russians, relatively speaking, and those who left there, yes. and inside russia they continue

to trade calmly, like global companies that are in every country of the world, there they even falsify documents in order to work in russia, i'm just saying that this speaks of the weakness of the world's understanding of what russia is and what are the russians like, about the weakness of understanding that it's not just putin's fault, even i would say so, it's not putin's fault at all, putin. i say once again, this is the personification of racism, the personification of imperial terrorism politicians once there was catherine ii, once there was lenin, once there was stalin, once there was nicholas ii or nicholas ii. once upon a time there was brezhnev, and once upon a time there was putin, and these are all people who personified such and such nationalities and that people, the so-called, who are in residence. in russia, and

every time some conditional weaker leader or weaker politician randomly came to russia, what he ended up with, let's remember, well, in the best case, the so -called... stake, in the worst case , by shooting, yes, liquidation, and these are the personifications of russia, they are there, relatively speaking, have always ruled for dozens of years, that is , what i am leading to, i am leading to the fact that the world does not understand this, and now i do not see understanding and awareness that deracialization is needed, that collective responsibility is needed, civilized states are still immature. to some such plan, yes, but of your options, you still forgot one more option to resign in absolute drunkenness, well, it's like what happened with yeltsin, i'm tired, i'm leaving, but this is rather an exception to the rules , than a historical rule, another

legal one mechanism, if this order of the ministry of defense of the russian federation, which was published today by our military commander andriy tsaplienko with a link to our. competent intelligence agencies, it is very interesting here, this is an order signed by shoigu on march 6, in normal people, it is march 6, and it came into effect on march 25, march 25, that is, immediately after this, the circus that they now call the election, and in in this case, there is this order about 300,000 new... recruits precisely from the occupied ukrainian lands, they call the newly acquired lands of the russian federation, so everything is logical, today and tomorrow, our citizens, who were even allowed to vote for putin with

a ukrainian passport, there is even such a thing, they will come, they will actually leave their contact details, because otherwise they cannot vote, and it is precisely on these lists that they will be... immediately after the elections on march 25, there are some mechanisms that can save our citizens who themselves fell into putin's trap. there was only one mechanism to save our citizens who are in the occupied territories , that is to leave the occupied territories, if it's possible. the mechanism is legal specifically in the occupied territories, it does not act as such in principle. that is, even if in theory there is some kind of conditional law, although sometimes it operates somewhere on the territory of the great russia itself, yes, that is , not on the occupied territories, but on the occupied territories themselves, in fact, even the operation

of this fake russian legislation cannot even be speak, because there is essentially, well, if there is martial law there, there is essentially a military dictate of the terrorist terrorist... armed forces of russia, so it is very, very difficult to talk about some kind of protection, the only thing is that these people, and they have already called on our people more than once not to go, not to vote, not to appear anywhere these days at all, first of all, there is a threat of terrorist attacks, which the rashists themselves can carry out, and secondly, there is no need to demonstrate yourself and provide your contact information once more, this is the only mechanism of salvation now, in fact, from the fact that... once the rashists have conducted such a recalculation, but what is very likely, after these elections, 15 - march 17 pseudo-elections, mobilization will be announced in russia, this is high probability, and of course, that

it will most likely take place both in the occupied territories and in the rashcha territory itself, relatively speaking, yes, that is, we must be ready for... the fact that there will really be a mobilization, a mobilization in order to so that, perhaps, for new offensives, perhaps in order to replace those mobs that were liquidated, yes, a lot of them were liquidated, we know, and maybe also for some kind of intimidation of the conditional, but our society also needs to prepare morally for this , and prepare for people who are in the occupied territories, our citizens, and the ukrainian state, in principle, also need to be aware and understand that any talk about the alleged desire for peace on the part of putin, allegedly about some negotiations that he is talking about, i i don't believe it and i will never believe it until the moment when russia exists at all, because russia

's number one task has always been, a priori , the elimination of ukrainian statehood, and this task will be in their hands, unfortunately, for many, many, many more. years, that is , there is absolutely no need to relax here, and you need to understand that if russia exists, its task is to destroy the ukrainian as such, the ukrainian as the bearer of our identity, therefore, of course, there are many threats, and these threats after the 17th, conditional march, well, there is still time for the inauguration, for some official ones, relatively speaking , things, let it be there for a week or two, all these things will testify to the fact that we still need to continue preparing for further escalation by the rashists, mr. andriy, i have one more question for you, as a lawyer, in fact, we understand that... of course we would all like the whole world to understand and recognize that russia exists

aggressor, and russian aggression against ukraine is a crime, unfortunately, it is very difficult to officially carry out all this in the international arena, we ask you to explain why this is important, why we really, really need it now, and whether there are any loopholes, well because the story is difficult with the un security council, that's how it looks. well, with the security council of the united nations, the story is difficult, as in principle with the entire organization of the united nations, i would not have any hope for this organization at all, i would in general, in principle , what is the united nations, the united nations for us, the only thing that, what can be highlighted is a platform, a platform for conveying certain media messages, everything, that is, we convey something, it is replicated by the media, there is a live broadcast, we can... express our point of view, that’s it, everything, maybe even as a platform, relatively speaking, communication

between, between our representatives and representatives of civilized states, it can also be when there is a certain communication on the sidelines, but at the expense of some legal mechanisms, it is the work of the un, this organization, it is like the league of nations, remember, our viewers maybe they know, to during the second world war there was... the league of nations, such an organization. well, the un is such, perhaps, not to offend too much, the un is such an improved league of nations. such a league of nations is at a minimum, judging by the fact that they have not been able to carry out reforms for 10 years, even if they consult with the un. and mr. andrii, and one more moment for a snack. we have considered different theoretical stories here. we see that right now, for example, they are warning us, by the way,

they sometimes look at the occupied territories, so pay attention, today we will bomb the positions of the armed forces, the russian federation in belgorod, we urge everyone to proceed to the shelter, this is at 11:00, this scenario, when suddenly these territories will be controlled in one way or another, for example, by those russian formations in the armed forces of ukraine, their legal mechanism is some kind of exchange, as an option. our occupied territories to yours , in a word, well, if there will be, then i think that these are not legal, but rather political mechanisms, but of course, for now it will be, then it will be, i still do not fully believe that such a situation it is possible that there is a border strip there maybe, but for now, well, again, as you and i perfectly understand that it is hardly possible in principle, but god forbid, if it happens, then of course god forbid, because it will be a certain weight. of our influence, as the option is, of course, and mr. andrii, thank you for the detailed conversation

, flight breakdown, andrii smolii, lawyer, political expert, public activist, was with us, further on our air about matters not only legal, but also actual , how to practically implement all this, how to return to ukraine children deported to russia, how much they are there, how their destinies develop, about all this, our colleague artem llagutenko spoke with kateryna rashevska, human rights defender, lawyer... of the regional human rights center, who is actually very competent in this field. now there will be a short pause for a few minutes, then let's watch this important conversation together. there are discounts on lactial, 10% in pharmacies plantain, you and savings. especially

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of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together! vasyl zima's big broadcast. two hours of air time, two hours of your time, two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives. two hours to keep abreast of economic and sports news, two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become a native language to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio. events day in two hours, a big broadcast of vasyl zima, a project for smart and caring people, in the evening for espresso. greetings espresso viewers. today in the studio with you i, artem logutenko, journalist and part-time host. today we will talk

about a very difficult topic, about one of the most terrible crimes. the racist regime - this is the deportation of ukrainian children. with me in the studio is a talented lawyer of the regional center for human rights, mrs. kateryna rashevska. mrs. katerina, i congratulate you. good day. i would like to start a conversation with you about the number of children that the rashists took to the territory of the russian federation. in preparing for ether, i was surprised by how much. a striking difference in official data, for example, the verkhovna rada commissioner for human rights dmytro liu lubenets called the number 150,000, his colleague darya gerosymchuk, the president's commissioner for children's affairs, called 300,000. actually the president himself talks about 19,500 children. well,

in russia, official data tell us about 700,000 little ones. ukrainians whom they took out of the temporarily occupied lands of ukraine. ms. kateryna, tell me why there is such a striking difference in the official data, and which of them should we believe? is this really the question that is of interest, including to a foreign audience? usually, any discussion starts from this, how many ukrainian children did the russian federation deport or forcibly relocate? and the answer to this question is simple and complex simultaneously. only the russian federation, as the aggressor state that carried out this deportation, knows how many children it has abducted, because it is its duty to provide the appropriate list of children, the list to the international committee of the red cross in order for these children to return home to their parents, other relatives, or, for example, have already returned to ukrainian foster families. at the same time

, the russian federation ignores this obligation, by the way, a lot of other obligations under international law, and therefore we still do not have... such a list, although from time to time nebendzia, russia's representative at the un, or their minister of foreign affairs, serhii lavrov, talk about some list that was even published somewhere, although without specifying where. so we have some numbers, you name them, i'll try to explain the plus-minus difference in human terms. 19,546 ukrainian children are currently identified, information about them is available on the children of war platform, which is managed by it. of information is the national information bureau, that is, a structure created in accordance with international norms humanitarian law. our competent authorities, including the attorney general's office, insist that the figure is fully verified, verified and can be trusted. is this the final number? no, and even in my work experience, we often identify children who

are not in this database. what does that mean, why aren't they there? these can be status children, orphans, children deprived of parental care. and also, unfortunately, war orphans who lost their parents due to the actions of the russian federation, no one was looking for them, that is why no one contacted and that is why there is no information, we are doing it on behalf of the relatives of these children, trying to facilitate the return of such children to ukraine, because they should not be discriminated in any way there just because they are not currently there in this base, therefore the base is dynamic and it is updated and will be updated, i hope not at the expense of the fact that the russian... federation will continue to deport and forcibly relocate ukrainian children, but at the expense of the fact that we will identify more and more. is there hundreds of thousands of ukrainians deported from the russian federation? children and why the russian federation itself eventually talks about 700, and about 730, 740 00, who will give more, you know, like some kind of undeclared competition, these are the children

who, according to their statistical documents, crossed the border of the russian federation, this is the border does not mean that they are there now, it does not mean that they are unaccompanied children, the russian federation itself has already, to be honest, said that most of them are children with their parents, which in no way eliminates ... the question about whether such movement was legitimate and whether it is not deportation, i.e. accompanying parents does not mean that it is a legitimate thing, a legitimate action, so i would say, and taking into account the experience of our organization and what we see, how many children are taken away for various reasons, how many children could have potentially lost their parents and become war orphans, and there is no information about them either, it is still not hundreds of thousands, it is tens of thousands of children, so it is not 20 thousand, who are currently identified... it is more, but i would not have taken the responsibility on myself speak as many as thousands. and russia declares that

it sends ukrainian children to so-called re-education camps, what is this? for the russian federation, in fact, as she says, these are summer camps, although what we are documenting is autumn camps, and winter, and spring, and year-round camps. yes, absolutely right, that's it. the process of re-education, this is when actually concentrating ukrainian children in a limited space, these are former soviet pioneer camps, summer camps, together, by the way, with russian children and also together with children from the occupied territories for already 10 years, unfortunately , in such a collective, the russian federation, using specially methodologically developed materials, organizes russification, political indoctrination, i.e. washing of cities, so that children become loyal. to the russian federation as an aggressor state and the militarization of these children, and just recently, from fresh information, children whose children were taken to the territory of belarus from the occupied

kherson region, it happened, they arrived yesterday, and they were taken out four days ago, that is, such a long road, and here is one of girls, little 8 years old, she told that she knew how to use weapons, that they were taught, they were shown there, how and for what. this or that rifle is intended, and of course the thing is there , a belarusian propaganda journalist said that these are children's fantasies, but i would not be so sure, because seeing their informal education, all these youth armies, the movements of the first and the re-education program of all the children's camps, we can to believe a girl who really now claims that she understands weapons at the age of eight, i understand correctly that russia is actually preparing me... well, it is training new soldiers for itself, it seeks to strengthen its own mobilization reserves in this way, but at the same time we must

emphasize this, weaken ours, and this actually explains why there is such a large number of young men aged 14-17 among the deported children, this group is the most numerous among the children who were forcibly transferred to russian families, that is, the only intention was that they would not serve. armed forces of ukraine after reaching adulthood, but also after the process of re-education, re-flashing, eradicating identity, they themselves would wanted to join the armed forces of the russian federation. in 2022, the so-called children's shoemaker of the russian federation of lviv-bilov, and i will remind our viewers that she is, according to the investigators of the international criminal court. dictator putin's accomplice in kidnapping children, she adopted a ukrainian boy. what do you know about

how widespread this practice is now in russia? so, i'm here right now, because if the team of lviv and bilova will watch our interview, we understand the difference between adoption and guardianship, and indeed, from those according to the documents that we have seen, maria lvova belova established guardianship over philip. mainly, a boy deported from mariupol. in april of this year, namely on april 4, philip will turn 18 years old. therefore, unfortunately, we predict that, knowing lvova bilova, she will want to take another child, perhaps, in order to fuel this propaganda and encourage more and more russians to adopt ukrainian children into their families. because unlike what russia broadcasts to the global arena, which is like a process transfer to guardianship, not adoption, as they say. "of ukrainian children after the start of the full-scale invasion lasted only until october 2022, this is all a delusion and a lie. we documented cases when the russians

handed over ukrainian children to their families and into the game." 2023, the process is ongoing, what we know about these families, they are mostly really so-called resource families, that is , russian children from russian orphanages are also under their care, often these are children who have disabilities, often these are really large families groups, and among these children there are now deported ukrainian minors, who are their parents, this is rather obscure information, but putin and lviv bilova are committing genocide of the ukrainian nation at the hands of teachers. that is, for the most part among these families , among the professional segment of this segment, there are teachers, because they are easy to control, on the one hand, you control them through guardianship and guardianship bodies , because they are resource families, and on the other hand, through school principals, these their glorious district, the ministry of education and so on, i.e. this people are absolutely so enslaved, this does not remove the issue of their further responsibility, but for our understanding they

did not decide anything there and everyone... one, even the russian propaganda media, testifies that the guardianship authorities or the ministry of social policy called them and said: the children are leaving from donbas, that is, children, and we have documented, traveled from far away, including, for example, from the occupied kherson region, they called them children of donbas and handed them over for care, but the situation is even worse if we let's look at the occupation of the territory in 2014, because then the russian federation did not invent any temporary protections or other forms there. transfers to a family form of upbringing, that is, they were immediately given up for adoption, and now we see how children who were deported at the age of one or two spent 10 years in a russian family, and they do not even suspect that they are from the territory of the crimean peninsula, that they are not the native children of these parents, and live there for themselves, become the letter z and tell russian patriotic poems about the special military operation, that's how it works... the complete

disregard of this crime by the international community for 10 years, and that's why the response, unfortunately, is so strong in the form of arrest warrants, it was appropriate and we very much welcome it, but this is not enough to eliminate the long-term consequences of such policies and such illegal acts. now we are talking about all this cleansing of the cities, about the assimilation of ukrainian children, and they... such a terrible thought, a terrible question, if it is possible to return these children to ukraine, will they want it? this question, which needs to be clarified, because if they testify on camera in russia that they do not want to return, or immediately after returning, due to the fact that they were traumatized, re- traumatized, even during repatriation , they will say that something is wrong here , that doesn't

mean they actually think so. that this is their position, that is, children should undergo psychological rehabilitation, children should have a special reintegration program and, obviously , a support program. we are not talking about the fact that each of them needs to pretend that it is russia does, apartments, cars and pay huge sums of money because it will at least be unfair to other children who have suffered from the armed conflict, but asks and we do not want to buy these children, as the russian federation ultimately wants, we want to these children remained... ukrainian citizens had this ukrainian identity , which you can never really buy, that is , the russian strategy works as long as they have money, when the money runs out, the children will pack their bags and go back, because what we see and what we observe is the least for a group of teenage children, not so simple and not so effective, there are even russian manipulation strategies that have been tested for many years, probably from the soviet union, and therefore,

for example, now maria lvova bilova. launched such a new initiative from february 2024, when now not only children, but also members of their families go to re-education camps, that is, it is probably calculated, at first they will go there for such demonstrativeness, loyal to the russians in...