who write, who argue somewhere on fox news, on cnn, the new york times, and so on , that macron said that we can send troops to ukraine, there in some case, in the case of something, someone told balta that is not necessary to reject, athens also said, it should not be rejected, and the americans said no, this, this is incredible, and the experts, this is what washington said, and the experts, in what... course they are discussing, because on the one hand, this what is called the fog of war, the famous phrase, everything is possible, but the day before yesterday we still had no one none, i don’t know, they didn’t provide tanks there, but today they are providing them, the day before yesterday they didn’t do anything, but today they are doing so on and so forth, and there was no mention of any foreign troops, and now if the conversations are already starting, what are they saying , what they say in america. well

, in general, they are positive about the discussion, not necessarily about sending american marines to ukraine tomorrow, i think that before that, people mostly agree with biden that this will not happen, but if they were mentioned, it is very important for this possibility to exist. biden in a sneaky review made a mistake both now and a few years ago , when as soon as the war started, that... he decreed that under no circumstances would american troops go to ukraine, well, that's a mistake, you don't have to say that they will go, but you just have to leave it under a sign question that such a possibility exists, and from this point of view the attitude of american analysts is positive towards the discussion itself, so it is right that we finally start talking about such things, partly because it still creates a certain uncertainty for oneself. putin, but from the other side, because

this is a possible reality, it can really come to that, we don't know, we hope not, but there are different circumstances, it can happen in a few months, in a few years, well, well, god forbid, in a few months, not in several years, let it come to such a topic, to such a discussion, rather to such a decision, and it is better to talk about it now than to wait and pretend that it is irrelevant. so what does that mean , in my opinion, the reaction is positive among american analysts, of course not all agree, but in general they are positive about such a discussion, mr. professor, hypothetically, i just don't know, and nobody knows, and you don't know, but if it happened that the europeans or part of the europeans, i mean primarily the members of the north atlantic alliance, would say, we are sending troops.

they can be prohibited by washington the official white house to call and say no, we, we're against, and they 'll say, okay, we, we've got it, if you're against, then we're not sending in the troops, how interdependent there is, well, you know, on the one hand yes, america is still a superpower, europeans to a certain extent measures have always been subordinate, but you know, in the last few months, and maybe even in the last few years, the europeans have already ... stood a little on their own feet, especially since they know or rather fear that trump will become president, and then radically everything will change, in this way, since it is a possibility , well, maybe even a reality, so trump is a trumpic president, we need to prepare, so they have already started to act independently, as you know, they are already treating this weimar, weimar triangle, is positive towards to use... interest from

russian funds that are frozen in the west, they provide some kind of help there, the czechs collect ammunition for ukrainian art, these are all european initiatives, and it seems to me that if in such a case, if biden actually picked up the phone and said, well, that's another question, who would he tell that to, do you remember how kissinger once said, if i, if i... call europe, i don't know who, well, it all works out to ukraine, let him ban france, yes germany can say, well, but we were banned, maybe france and germany, but not the british, and so on, but i personally think that this is unlikely, because from the american point of view, if it were to come to this, some western country would have to send their soldiers to... ukraine, it is better for the europeans,

not us, because if we are already engaged, but then these are already two superpowers, well, it is already on a completely different level. equal, and if a certain belgium sent a few soldiers there, or even a certain luxembourg, well, in principle, it is not by some special escalation, especially, and this is very important, if it were to come to this, no one would announce ahead of time that we are sending the troops of belgium, france, germany, etc., to start the third world war with russia, just the opposite they will say, and that we did not nominate anyone, they are just some consultants, volunteers who are patriots of ukraine, and that they happen to have our uniforms, oh my god, armor, everyone has the right to such, the basins are not full of different uniforms, even in lviv , i can find the native form here

very easy, well actually, but okay, these visits, polish visits, in the united states , above all, what the press writes, why they came, what they want from biden, what they talked about there, things that concern us, well, they are there and they talked about the border, give a little money, as usual, well, everyone who goes to america asks for money, here it is never without it, but that these are polish-american relations, they are pre-election, well, because many poles are citizens. of the united states and the candidates would always smile like that from side to side polish diaspora. and this visit? well, you see, i think it was most likely about sikorsky, of course, i think he just wanted

to go directly to the american congress and tell them, emphasize to them how important it is that they resume aid to ukraine. i think this is the most important thing, he understands, he has always been a supporter of ukraine, he has always understood the essence of russian foreign policy, and he understands that if there is no continuation of this aid, it will be harmful not only to ukraine, but even more so poland itself, so i guess that was his main goal, in terms of domestic american politics, you know, the poles as such, even though there are about eight or 9 million of them, they're more likely to ... vote for biden anyway, given the that he supports ukraine, so i'm not sure that it will make that much of a difference to the chances of biden himself in the election, but the second, the second visit, which is perhaps more important, or at least as important, is the visit of

viktor orbán, and here, too, such a conscious insult, because, you understand, after coming to america, he had would go to the white house first. and there to chat with the president, and if not with the president, then at least with some adviser or the head of the congress or the senate, well, something like that, to do your thing there, that means bowing, and then please meet with whoever you want, with musk or with trump and so on, but it’s so easy to come, it’s natural not to talk to the official authorities in washington, well, it’s a joke, it’s an insult, but as far as i know... he talked to trump and at least that’s one thing , this orbán himself betrayed that trump not ready to give ukraine a cent, well, that's all we are we assumed that we knew all this in principle, but here

he clearly stated what the matter was, so that no one can have the slightest illusion that trump could beat something, well, he could ukraine... could, well, of course, trump , being trump, it's quite possible that he's lying , it's quite possible that he said something so stupid to him because he just thought it was especially wise at that moment, you know, we 've talked about it before, he's unpredictable, so who knows , what he really has in mind, but of course, it would be better if he told orban said yes, i support ukraine, tanks, rockets and everything, and even if he was blubbering then, but... there would be no feeling, we would like it, we would like this lie, obviously, of course, well, but for orbán it is it is a big risk, if it is black and red, it is roulette, if trump becomes president, then he is king orbán,

and if biden continues to be president, then he is zero, and if this, that is, it is a big risk for orbán to behave like this, to go to trump and not go to biden, that's it. absurd, well absolutely and at the same time, do not forget that he, his relations with the europeans, they are terrible, he just yesterday or the day before yesterday was in a speech, he said that it is necessary to occupy, i will... also, well, you understand, well, this is such a strange language, well, crazy language, he turned into trump , is it possible that trump has turned into orbán, i don’t know who is who, but he, he, he has already gone to vabank, so if trump wins, he will of course feel good in america, but against the europeans, i think he i just built an even deeper hole for myself. last question, something to me it seems that it is the last for today, well, how

will biden press the congress regarding money due to the purely republican option, which is 50 with something billion, or this one for 61 billion, and what is the mood there, how do you feel, well, that is the whole point , which means that a week ago i was quite pessimistic and felt bad, because... there was this blockade, nothing was moving anywhere, everyone stood his ground, and it seemed that there would be no compromise, and now this johnson spoke enough with such a ukrainian a pro-ukrainian statement, my god ordered that russia win, we must do everything possible to prevent such an outcome, so in principle even this is already positive, because he has not said such a thing so far, and at the same time, which is impressive... that they republicans are preparing their own bill, now it's all good, if that

happened, i don't think it's because johnson suddenly heard about sikorsky or read my articles and thought, oh my, you guys are right, i need to change my mind, it's more because they already started congressmen to collect signatures on the so-called petition, and with which they could get around just vote for it. bill without his consent, so he understands that he may lose his authority, his power, and so he made certain concessions here, now the only question is, are they serious about it , so the republicans, or is it just some kind of bluff , because there is, because of course, if they produce their bill, it will have to be reconciled with the senate bill, it may take days, or it may take months. basically as much as the republicans would like, so at worst it could just be a game

such an image, where johnson then shows himself as a great patriot and at the same time ready to accept a new bill to help ukraine, but then, from a procedural point of view , everything can be stretched so much that in the end there will be zero effect. well, we hope that... there won't be anyone, but of course it's possible. thank you very much, thank you very much. oleksandr matyl, historian, political scientist, professor at rudger university in the united states, i would even say in the city of new york. and now we will go to advertising again, and then from america, to europe, to brussels, again, visa-free, and we are visa-free with brussels, so everything is fine. advertising. bleeding and inflammation of the gums. my advice. lacquer active. lacquer active actively overcomes

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united by football together stronger two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives , a project for smart and caring people in the evening at espresso. weekly saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts. based on the facts , they give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. channel espresso and ukrainian pen present the project of their own name with myroslava barchuk. a series of conversations with

ukrainian and western intellectuals who analyze and comment on the most relevant issues. public discussions, what exactly the news will be to analyze the guests of the project this week and actually who will be the guest of the studio, we will find out already this sunday, clearly, the topics will be relevant, the guests will be special, their own names with myroslava barchuk, sunday, 17:10 at espresso. so, i welcome you again, yes, we will now have a conversation about european integration, we have an expert on european integration processes. maria golub, she is in brussels, and we are, at least i am in lviv, and we will talk with ms. maria about this alliance between kyiv, between ukraine and the european union. thank you for finding time for us, thank you very much. well, look, some points are so mysterious, i would like to explain them somehow: the european commission has proposed

a negotiation framework for ukraine regarding the eu. what is a negotiation framework? this is also what... ukraine and the eu will talk about, and they will talk about the rest later, or what is the negotiating framework? in simpler words, the negotiating framework is a regulation, if it can be called a simpler word, or it is a procedural document by which two parties, in this case from the eu, it will be the european commission, it prepared this framework on behalf of ukraine, it is the ukrainian government, or the negotiating team that will represent it. ukraine, they will conduct the entire further dialogue of our rapprochement with the european union, and this negotiating framework, it is important because, firstly, it was prepared by the european commission, but it still has to be adopted by all the member states of the european union, all 27 countries have to say yes, in this negotiating framework, and the second point is that it is very complex,

and it will generally determine both the dynamics and directions and scope of those works. which ukraine will carry out in this process of joining the european family, this framework is quite typical, that is, the european commission did not invent anything new for ukraine, but there is a certain difference in this negotiation framework, and it consists in the fact that the european union is now is looking for such a beautiful solution so that one member state no longer blocks the entire negotiation process for another. country and here , of course, we have an elephant in the room, we all know who we are talking about, and here is just what to say, called hungary, yes, yes, i can say out loud, look, if we cross out hungary, we cross out normal countries remain, this path can take from 5 to 15

years, from 10 to 20 years, from... three to seven years , here i have the impression that 10 to 15 is optimistic, but i am an optimistic pessimist, and you and i are a realist, because as an expert i have to rely on real facts, and they tell us about this, in our european integration progress, i have in ukraine's mind, there are two main components, this is the political will, which must be demonstrated with both parties, both from the european side and from the ukrainian side, and even in some ways more from the european side, because they make key decisions on the country's accession, and the second point is the dynamics and speed with which ukraine will be able to approve at least no more, but thousands of acts of legislation of the european union in order for us to actually be ready as a country

to be completely, completely and completely... to join the european union, because the european bureaucracy is about rules, laws, they are so function, this is how their market functions, and accordingly they simply will not let a country there that is not ready for all these internal procedures, why? because they understand that it will unbalance their family, and this is again a question for us, how much we can do in two years, it's probably unrealistic, let's just honestly say that we are still a country that will win the war majesty '. large-scale in a few years, it is real, not just like that, the european union has undertaken obligations, so far it is declarative and political. obligation accept, or rather, prepare for a new wave of expansion by the 30th year, so far this is the most realistic term that appears

in all political, possible, i know the answer, but for the citizens, they may have some illusions , and some possible indulgences, well, look, we accepted estonia, they didn't have a war, but there is a war in ukraine. well, well , let's cancel this, this, this article 925 and 1737, and somehow close our eyes, possible leniency, some kind of leniency for ukraine, whether you don't think so, i don't think so, and you politics, politics is the art of the possible, here i am speaking as an expert, and as a person who was present during many dialogues about the integration future of ukraine, so it really is the art of the possible, and here it is not a question of therefore , will they make concessions to us, yes, we can simply

demonstrate our readiness, yes, to fulfill this entire layer and volume of obligations, here there will still be a question for us, to what extent we will feel this capacity, first of all, economic capacity to join the european union, to join this single one market, compete, and here... let's also not forget that in the negotiation process there is such a very cool thing, a cool stage, yes, which is called excess 30, or it is an accession agreement, so there is a country, in this case ukraine will have the opportunity to set certain deadlines, for example, yes , i will explain more simply here, we will understand that it is very difficult for us to reform a certain industry, the economy, and we will say, look, we are taking on obligations from ter... we renew it for ourselves for seven years, for eight years, and this is the art of negotiations , that is, we can really be taken sooner than there we are 100% fully

implementing all the legislation, but we have to prove our ability to become a part, a full-fledged country, a member of the eu in a certain number of years. yes, now it is very important, an important question, i look at the clock, as if we have time. there is legislation, but there is reality, but in ukraine they, well, unlike europeans, do not coincide much, in our country , many things are written in capital letters in the constitution, and to say that everyone is like that, only and they look at that constitution , well, i wouldn't say, well, at least i'm a journalist, regarding censorship, i remember, how now, i was just in the hall in 1996, when it was adopted, and somehow censorship persists regardless, and it's not military censorship since... the 22nd year, when it was at least somehow understood in some part, well, you can say, you can say that we have such laws, and such beautiful laws, and such

beautiful, we have all beautiful laws, and the european commission said, well, good laws, but you and i may not feel it, because the reality is different, well, look , i'll tell you this, the first moment, the european commission will not'... give a good law, if it's a bad law, what are they doing now, they are increasing the staff of experts in ukraine as much as possible, and those people who really understand the realities of ukrainian legislation, and about what you say, how these laws work or do not work in ukraine, and the second point, this is a question for us, we do it for ourselves, and european integration laws, they are interesting , they involve a certain flexibility, that is, if it is not a regulation, but if it is the law itself , it provides that ukraine has a certain possibility to implement this law in the way that is best for this country. and

with regard to censorship and the fact that certain laws do not work, the european union has another tool for dialogue, let's put it this way, and it is money, it is financial mechanisms, and this huge ukrainian plan for 50 billion, it is very clearly written there that democracy , supremacy. rights, anti-corruption reforms, they are key for ukraine on time received money, in which we are very interested. yes, ma'am, the last question, or group of questions , by the way, i usually don't do it, but this time i will, because i don't like to draw out the words of the interlocutor, the interlocutor, when you said for yourself, and not for someone , and i understand it, and i am convinced that you understand it, but... you communicate with ukrainian officials, with officials, with deputies who come somewhere in that brussels, something, i have no conviction

that all of them... . really do it for themselves, i have often met various high-ranking officials who, come on, they tell us to do it here, but it is not profitable, they put pressure on us, we suffer so much here, and i have the complete impression that he is doing this for some uncle, really he would have built it a long, long time ago would be socialism in one separate, separate state and would feel good here, instead of crawling into that brussels and executing. these are all the pretensions, as he believes, of european officials, what do you say, how much is the ukrainian establishment ready, it understands that it is doing this for itself, and for us, and for the state, and for our children and grandchildren, you know, we simply have no other option but to do it for ourselves, and what i observe is that there is a lot of discussion right now, just inside the ukrainian establishment, and here very often, by the way

, ukrainian business, is the driver, is at the forefront of these discussions, because they know exactly what the single market is, what european integration is, and we are now, as a country, and it is very good that this is happening, we are looking for this added value that membership ukraine in the eu will bring for the european union, and accordingly, here we already have, well, as i said, no other choice but to do it as the best for ourselves, because, well, we understand that it will be... defining for decades, if not for the entire future existence of our country , and with regard to pressure , then again, there are many formats, tripartite meetings, bilateral meetings, consultations, dialogues, that is, it cannot be said that ukraine is being pressured, ukraine is most likely being explained certain rules, and for us there is always the possibility of these rules a little. on the threshold, and before the threshold,

that is, the european community , i was in the parliament, i went into the parliament, and there was a very interesting moment when the speaker said, well, i don't know the language, yes, definitely estonian bull-bull, all the time, bull-bull, once, bull , time, i say, what are they doing, he says, well, that's the amount of regal. that's how much water should be in oil, how much should be in oil, how much should be in oil. now the wrapper, which should be on the wrapper, and from the left or from the right, and they, as our friends say, the russians, are uncomplaining, they don’t even discussed, they understood that these are thousands, if not tens of thousands of various draft laws

or laws, and they simply... understood at the entrance to the european union, everything is correct there, we are not, we are not arguing, on the right side, there is that seal, or from the left, europe said from the right, that's it, the amount of water in the oil was said to be that amount, that's it, and they simply won't even discuss it, no one there would even care if ukraine is ready to work like this with such trust to, to, to brussels, to the european union? there are two points here, firstly, we have european integration and this is unification legislation, it did not start yesterday, we have been working on it, not even since the 14th, but even earlier we started to bring our standards and our rules and our laws into line with these standards, so you may be surprised, but we have a lot of work, but not as much as, for example , for those countries that

joined in the first or second wave of expansion. second point , estonia is still a smaller country, smaller economically, i mean in terms of levers and indicators of the country, so maybe it was easier for them, because they knew that what as for butter and wrappers , there is no national, economic interest here, so they are very, excuse me, please. maria goluba, an expert on european integration , explained to us what is happening in ukrainian -european relations, and what is happening in ukraine and in the world. .. now iryna koval will tell you on the news. oh yeah. thank you, mr. mykola. well, literally in 10 minutes i will give you, i will give you back the ether, and literally in a minute i will tell you about what is happening in the country and in the world.