not football together are stronger. from now on, in a new two-hour format about ukraine, the world, the front, society, you can express your opinion on the bad day by means of a telephone survey. verdict with serhiy rudenko, every weekday, from 8 to 10 p.m. espresso channel and ukrainian pen present the self- titled project with myroslava barchuk. a series of conversations with ukrainian and western intellectuals who analyze and comment on the most relevant social issues. discussions, which news will be analyzed by the guests of the project this week and actually, we will find out who will be the guest of the studio already this sunday, clearly, the topics will be relevant, the guests will be special, proper names with myroslava barchuk, sunday 17:10 at espresso. so, once again good. everyone, yes

, we have half an hour left to be on the air with you, this does not mean that we have to turn off the tv after half an hour, we have to continue watching espresso, but as i promised, the german view of the situation, or the view from germany, serhiy sumlenny, german political scientist, director initiative center of european sustainability, good health, mr. serhiy, thank you for finding for it's time for us, good, good evening, and thank you for... well, look, we just spoke with oksana mylenchuk from paris, she said that macron, the french president , is dealing with your business, namely european stability, that he gathered both military and civilian people, recently i just persuaded them that listen, we need to have european stability, we need to understand that america is not a fact that it can help, we understand that russia... can attack, russia

can destabilize some, some circumstances, and against this background, it looks like this from lviv and kyiv, where i am, that as if scholz , who was more active a year ago, well , at least he looked more active, more pro-ukrainian, let's call it that, although in fact he was always pro-german, he became so less active, less pro-ukrainian against the background of mr. macron, are we all wrong here. and are we not mistaken, is the german chancellor really like that if he groped the brakes and started to slow down? well , this is a question, let's put it this way, it should be considered from many focuses in my opinion, well, first of all, there is the topic of stability in general, and it was first introduced, if i am not mistaken, back in the baltic countries and... 10 years

ago, when after the first year, the second year of russia's attack on ukraine in 14-15 in the 20th century, the european countries, especially the baltic countries, began to talk about sustainability, that society should be sustainable, and they considered this sustainability in many such a measurable aspect, that is, not only military, economic, political, social, cultural and and and and, but now it's obvious that... this topic is there, as always these western european countries are the last to understand the challenges that come from russia, and if they are smart, they adopt the experience of countries that directly deal with russian challenges, namely the experience of ukraine, the experience of estonia, latvia, lithuania, partly poland, other countries, so what...

as for the chancellor of germany, the chancellor of germany has now obviously made a strategic decision, it looks like this: not to give ukraine anything that could lead to a large-scale ukrainian offensive, what can inflate russia, how to freeze what they call the conflict in ukraine, and go out in the 25th year, when there will be parliamentary federal elections in germany with the concept, what are you looking at, everyone tried to achieve the escalation of the conflict, we achieved what he frozen, in this way we prevented a nuclear war, we prevented the apocalypse, the end of the world, and here we are the only adult party that wants peace, all the others wanted, therefore, the end of the world and were absolutely ridiculous, and this is how they want to profile themselves and in this in ukrainian affairs, in such and such ukrainian plans... there is no victory, that is, it is already

a reality, but it is not some concept that is possible, it is with this, with these ideas, the party of sholtse and... for the elections and imagine that because something will change in a month, well, no, it's not worth it. well, if scholze is removed from voting in the bundestag, there is such a possibility, it is very unlikely, but theoretically, from a legal point of view, it exists, so of course the situation will change. on the other hand , the spd, olaf scholz's party, the social democrats are obviously behind the defeat of ukraine, they wish ukraine a defeat, then you have to understand that these people deliberately, absolutely... do not wish ukraine a defeat, they do not wish ukraine a total defeat, because, well, this is something that is not very good, and it will lead to some unexpected consequences, but it is necessary to mean that from their point of view it is scholz, mutsynich is different, this conflict, as they

repeatedly call it, must be frozen, which means the defeat of ukraine, because it is a loss of control over the territories, it remains a threat of continued invasion of russia. and why they, or do i think they changed their minds like that, did scholl change their minds, or have they always been like that, just not as vocal about it as you are now quoting it, i don't think they have had a strong change of heart, they obviously started talking more frankly about that, well, here is an epoch-making speech, this is a speech the day before yesterday in the bundestag by the leader of the social democrats faction , mr. myutsynikh, where he directly spoke about the need for power. don't worry about this situation, it's not about supporting ukraine as long as necessary, it's not about that russia should not be allowed to win , that is, they were afraid to say the word ukrainian victory, they said that russia should not be allowed

to win, no, they are now saying that we should freeze what we have, this is obviously the real face of the social democrats and. .. and why do they talk about it so openly, because they obviously succeeded, and as they think, it means to bring under their control the two coalition parties of the bundestag, that is, the greens and the liberals, because it depends on the greens and the liberals, that means it depends on whether scholze can be removed, or scholz can be opposed to vote with the majority vote of these two coalition parties in the coalition. social democrats and the large opposition party christian democrats. the last two tauros votes showed that the greens and liberals, despite all their militant rhetoric on talk shows and on television, are not ready to vote on the bills, which chancellor

scholz does not like. scholz took this as carte blanche for total authoritarian leadership, and his latest statements where he said, for example, that germany to do... in this way, as i say, because i am kanz, this is absolutely the authoritarian logic of such a small emperor, as he obviously sees himself, mr. sergius, well , let's imagine a bad picture for ourselves on some, some part of the front there is a breakthrough, a further breakthrough, then shoit tries to suddenly summon minsk-3, that 's all, yeah. then minsk-3, then let's persuade putin, yes, yes, that is, scholz is playing the peacemaker again, that is, he is saying, you see, the russians have broken through, and we have offered them a compromise, well and it is always a good idea to offer a compromise, not

at their own expense, of course, they try to offer it at the expense of ukraine, so that means finding such a creative moment and a creative solution that is possible there. that is, to suggest, mr. serhiy, that is, we can talk with you, at least the first part of it, if we could sum it up with the words of hope for germany in the coming year, these hopes should be rejected and hope for anyone, but not for germany and all kinds of influences of the poles, but now took place, as if there was a polish-french-german meeting, and it is after all... on the ukrainian side, both the baltics and finland, as if macron's words said that troops in ukraine cannot be ruled out, well , it is obvious that german troops will not be here, i understand that, i think everyone understands, but well that it's just that we will have such an anchor, such a burden

on our feet in the european integration of ukraine, the military european integration of ukraine, that everyone will be for something, or the majority will be for something, and the germans will be on... that let's not help, well, let's put it this way , germany will move on in an all-contributing format countries, germany will not resist these countries. and will not openly sabotage, that is, germany will not turn into another hungary, that is obvious. germany will not be the driver of ukraine's aid, and germany will try, that is, not to give ukraine something that can fundamentally break it, that is, swindles. with the fact that when i say germany, i mean the german government and chancellor scholze in the first place, because how german, the german population stands on... in ukraine, it is obvious, 2/3 of the germans demand to increase military aid to ukraine, i see from all

these companies, these are polish-french negotiations with the germans, that what can we do? well, we see that international pressure on scholz is always working, the only question is how much of this pressure is needed, and here, well, here it is necessary to understand that, well , what kind of a european leader country is this, which needs to be burdened, that is, dragged in every time , that is, for three years almost in some logical way normal, a normal decision, that is , germany will slow down, but not sabotage, so here too we need to see who can help and how, that is, try to get help from both france and other countries. and no, and take from germany what germany can give, that is, the patriots give, well, we need

to take more of them, and thank you very much, sorry, mr. serhiy, serhiy sumlenny, german political scientist, director of the initiative center european sustainability, not like that , it is already stable, it is stability, but you see, we are talking about france, and about germany, and about germany talked, and i conclude that vivlia is france, but not a member of uber allees. yes, that's what i would say, but for now , here's what we're going to talk about, we're going to have a small five-minute story there, because today is the 10th anniversary of the occupation of crimea , ukrainian crimea, ukrainian, ukrainian crimean-tatar crimea, i bet said, about the illegal persecution of tatars, which is the fate of the crimean-tatar people in crimea, with which russia rewarded the crimeans for their arrival on the peninsula. what's going on there how the occupation began and how

crimea lives today, this is our story today, then we will talk with the head of the border of the crimean-tatar people, mr. ryfat chubarov. plot: soldiers, 10 years ago, on march 16, 2014, the russian occupiers held a so-called referendum in crimea under the muzzles of machine guns. the operation to seize the peninsula began on february 20. it was on this day that the armed forces of the russian federation first violated the procedure for crossing the state border of ukraine through the kerch strait. since the same 2014, russia began to spread the narrative that the peninsula was allegedly taken peacefully with the consent of the crimeans. however, there are participants in the protest. refutation of this myth: very different people went out on the street, they were not even politically connected with

politics in any way, well, until the 14th year, they were, i don't know, kindergarten teachers, they were some teachers, they were journalists, these were , well, even people who did not work, pensioners, i saw a lot of people too, that is, they were simply people who did not agree with the fact that russia was taking over their home, these voices were not shown to the general public there somehow by television, because at that time the radio and television transmitters in crimea had already been seized, and only russian was spoken there, russian tv channels and, accordingly, they broadcast only pro-russian rallies. the voting during the so-called referendum took place with numerous violations, this was recognized by the whole world, except russia, of course. the main scheme for falsification was a simplified procedure for entering people into additional lists, right at the polling stations, so the number of people. who supposedly voted was abnormally large. in addition, in the bulletins,

printed on ordinary white sheets of a4 format, there was no clause that would allow a vote for crimea to remain part of ukraine. at the same time, to say that crimea was taken with the consent of all crimeans and supposedly not by military means, but by peaceful means, is simply not true, at least it is not true, at most it is just propaganda. with which they are trying to deceive ukraine and the whole world. while all of ukraine was reeling from the shooting of unarmed protesters by the berkuts on the maidan in kyiv, the russian occupiers are acting. very quickly, they understood that, in order to prevent the truth from leaking beyond the peninsula, it is necessary to silence all mass media, near the television and radio broadcasting centers of crimea, russia landed landing parties of machine gunners and machine gunners. the last time we had a broadcast just on the birthday of taras hryhorovych shevchenko, on my shift on march 9, i announced

the program at 10:20 before his birthday, somewhere she lost, well... maybe 5 minutes, maybe 6 minutes, if not less , and i heard that something else was playing on the air, not our program at all, when i went on the air, i heard that radio vesti russia is already playing there. individual crimean zmi tried to work for a while longer to talk about what was really happening, but it was risky to do so, because apart from threats, you could get in and play. i would work in conditions. in the crimea for 2 years from 14 to 2016, until the time when a spying program was installed on my computer with the help of a provider, on april 19, 2016 at 6:00 a.m. i was attacked with a search warrant in order to find computers, these are all

the materials that i sent er... ukrainian mass media. the policy of the kremlin has not undergone any special changes since that time. today, as in 2014, repression and persecution continue in crimea. according to the data of the crimean human rights group, during the 10 years of occupation, at least 1,400 crimeans suffered from russian repression, at least 200 citizens are behind bars, most of them do not receive medical care. cases become victims of torture. during all 10 years of occupation, russia has created such an island in crimea, where laws really do not apply, where only some criminal principles of the russian government. for 10 years in crimea, the civil population

of the peninsula has been exclusively lawless, the population is kept in fear. some organizations have long recognized the occupation of crimea as illegal, today the entire world community knows that crimea is ukraine, and sooner or later it will return home. tatyana golonova, oscar jansons, spresso tv channel. yes, it was nice to see mykola semena, whom i know, 25-30 years old, with whom i worked, cooperated, who is in exile in crimea, but about general. the situation in the crimean peninsula chairman of the mejlis of the crimean tatar people rifat chubarov, ryfat aga, thank you for taking the time to see us, thank you very much, we know that not only was there a pseudo-referendum, we know that right now there are pseudo-elections in russia, and it seems that crimea is taking part in them participation,

there is some news, you know something, how these elections are taking place, this special operation, on the territory of the ukrainian crimea. see, after what they call an election, there will definitely be conclusions in the kremlin about local gauleiters, and it is clear that each of them now tries to show the maximum results, which will not be, but they want to draw them. and this especially applies to the occupied ukrainian territories, and the crimean peninsula, and the kherson, zaporizhia, and donetsk luhansk regions. i think we will see , in one more day, tomorrow evening, the highest results not only where kadyrov is, uh,

or well, in chechnya, but we will see in our occupied territories, as i said. crimea is no exception, today we paid attention to the fact that in the morning in those places where it is compact crimean tatars live , buses appeared, i don't know where they found such an opportunity in their, well, these laws, well, if they can be called laws, but these buses are equipped with such large posters, i will read how it's called the item "additional form of voting of the polling station, there, well, number 218, i have such a photo, it's for zooming in. that is, to make it so that people cannot avoid voting, and they walk the streets of this settlement, fixed people, and

they say, a bus has arrived, please go vote, you understand, they came to your house, if you don't go, it will be known, and people will be intimidated in this way in order to get additional votes, well, of course, these elections are absolutely illegal in our territories, i think... that the entire international community will come out of this, mr. chubarov, please tell me, the so-called small liberal russian opposition, it says that on sunday the 12th it is necessary to come, and if such a coming at this very moment to vote, how are you there will you vote yet? vote as you wish, but not yes putin, but they say it will be able to show something, that they say there is an opposition in russia, that in crimea, what

is happening on the territory of crimea, on your territory, there will also be this story, that there will be an opportunity to come at 12 o'clock to show that we at 12 o'clock - and there are many of us and we are here against putin, i think that in crimea there will be no such precincts where people will come at 12 o'clock, in crimea there is very... clearly: white and black, black is evil, this those who, well, or, as they say, at the call of the soul, such individuals are also individuals, will come to vote, or those who cannot overcome fear, fear and will come to vote, and the whites are those who will deliberately avoid voting, and therefore we will see the results, we have been working directly all these weeks. and our compatriots , i.e. the crimean tatars, but not only, we appealed directly to all residents of crimea to avoid voting, not to come to

the polling station, because we believe that this means nothing more than the involvement of people in the commission of a crime by the russian occupiers, because voting in the occupied territories is not just illegal, it is also criminal concerns the russian, well , the so-called liberal opposition in general, we also proved our point of view to them here, we believe that this call to come on such and such a day and vote there already, or in some other way, is absolutely wrong, and moreover, it is misleading, because and... in this way, people are again involved in illegal elections, they are illegal throughout the territory of russia, because these elections spread them on

the territory of ukraine, and because the elections of the so-called president are taking place on our territory russia, this in itself becomes a crime, and therefore any liberal who comes tomorrow, be it in vilnius, in warsaw, in berlin or in moscow or in saratov. and will demonstrate his position in this way, and then go and take a ballot to vote for someone there, this is how he supposedly agrees, not allegedly, he agrees with the elections that are held illegally in our territory. now, not about the elections, but about life in crimea, which i am personally very interested in, but the question is, i just read today, somewhere i was preparing for the program, salaries... in crimea are lower, well, by some significant percentage, not by 1-2-3, by 10-20, but prices are higher, this is how people live today in crimea, they

dreamed so, i had acquaintances, they constantly told me that in moscow the pension is $1,000, in ukraine it is $300, so you have to join, these are mainly people from sevastopol, well, sevastopol is separate and so specific. the city, how people live, whether there is an understanding that something has changed not for the better in their lives, what is happening there in principle, mr. rifat, well, look, do you still remember the anecdote from the soviet times that why is life so bad, and we are moving towards communism, and the answer was this, but no one promised, well, when we go to feed, that's when we get there. it will be fine, the opposite happened a little here, when they captured crimea, they immediately increased pensions, three times,

the minimum pension was tripled and... part of the people bought into it, then they gave such salaries, which were not yet known in ukrainian schools at that time, some other budget institutions, but all this happened until the end of 2014, and then already since january 2015, they brought everything into compliance with those norms that exist on the territory of russia itself, here in the crimea on the... from other regions, for such different reasons, including complex logistics, due to the fact that crimea found itself in such a shadow, because here, after all, the sanctions began to operate much earlier than on the territory of russia itself, and there is an absolute lack of tourism,

including... foreign tourists and everything else, that is, on the one hand, all wages fees have led to compliance with russian standards since 2015, and on the other hand prices rose, logistics rose, and thus those crimean people who believed that russia came to feed them, on the way to communism, they realized here that all this was b... lov, but it was already too late, rifataga, look, and correctly , i understood that there are dissatisfied people, but they are silent, well, because dissatisfaction in the russian federation is not welcome, to put it mildly, in the occupied territories it is simply persecuted, even if you are just talking to a neighbor, i often read here, you say, yes, i don't like something here, bread is expensive there, and water there there is no, i don't know that gasoline has become more expensive there.

then it is not a fact that you will not be invited to a conversation at the fsb tomorrow. look, during ukrainian sovereignty, that is, before the seizure of crimea , crimean people got so used to the fact that for any reason it was possible to immediately go to the square in front of the authorities, demand, shout, and very often with claims that may have been completely inappropriate to the ukrainian state, let's say, you give russian... or there, i don't know, something else, and when crimea was captured, some of these people who were supporters of russia, and they also brought russia to the crimea, they , according to their old memory, began to go out on the square when, as it seemed to them, the new occupying power, well, let's say, carried out actions that they did not like, and they did not realize at the time , that it is quite absolutely.

regime, and when two or three times, going out on the square, they very kindly received these batons on their heads and shoulders and everything else, then it dawned on them that this was absolutely the opposite of what they felt, how they behaved for the ukrainians tenses, which are already in russian here under the occupation regime, you can go out to the square , but only when you asked the authorities, and the authorities allowed you... and without such and such permission, you cannot go out in any way, almost if you want to shout yes, hello putin, no, if the authorities do not allow it, never you don't like that, thank you very much , by the way, it's called totalitarianism, because authoritarianism can be praised by putin independently, and totalitarianism only with the consent of putin himself. thank you very much, rifat chubarov,

chairman. the mejlis of the crimean tatar people was with us, and the slogan, i really like it i liked the slogan that mr. rifat mentioned, you give the russian language, you take away the bread and sausage, that 's the slogan, well, now the news, and i 'll say goodbye to you until tomorrow, and welcome to you iryna koval, like that. it's 7 p.m. in ukraine, and we have a news release on the spresso tv channel, in the studio of iryna koval. greetings to all viewers, and now to the main events. donald.