we continue the saturday political club program, khrystyna yatskiv, vitaly portnikov, and in fact many important events took place outside our country this week, the weimar triangle, and the meeting between emmanuel macron, olaf scholz and donald trump. tuska in order to essentially adjust the clocks in relation to and position as far as she is consolidated in terms of aid to our country. well, i don't know, it's hard to say how practical this meeting ended, i 'm not at all sure that each of the leaders could assure something and to convince his counterpart in these conversations, but one way or another, let's hope that...

the defense forces of ukraine get the appropriate tools in their hands in order to have something to defend against the russians, after all, this is the most important thing now, of course, because this is, in principle, a question related to the support of ukraine, and to what extent we will be able to survive this year without any cataclysms on the front line, this is, in principle , the main thing that we are trying to strive for, valeriy chaly, ugh, diplomat, former ambassador ukraine, the united states... we will now be in touch and we will talk about it with him, because now it is absolutely obvious that you and i are in a situation where the united states, as strange as it sounds, is under pressure from others countries, today the prime minister of poland, donald tusk, appealed to the speaker of the house of representatives mike johnson, help ukraine, why are you delaying, in principle, politically speaking, it should have been the other way around, this is mike johnson, other american politicians should have appealed to the europeans and say. listen, it's yours

the field of security, why are you delaying, why are you not allocating enough money, where is your interest, and it turns out that the europeans are now convincing the americans, and this is also some kind of serious change in political orientations, which is worth thinking about, how much, how much is it, uh, maybe, well, this is also a symptom of the political processes in the united states itself, i think that more than staying in office and... getting a suitable warm seat under the presidency of donald trump, this is the goal of speaker johnson, because, frankly, you look at his movements and on some strategy of his thinking, and you don't fully understand, he still prefers to be a politician or a statesman, a politician, because it can be very difficult to be a statesman when you are not a politician, here is one and the other, it should not be mutually exclusive , but we understand that unfortunately. mr. johnson

has the experience of his predecessor right before his eyes, but we will talk about it right now with valery chala, congratulations, mr. valery, i congratulate you, glory to ukraine, hero of words, hero of words, well, that was the meeting of speaker johnson with the republicans in the senate, he puts forward new aid proposals, he says, they will be voted on through the house of representatives, that it will be a new aid formula, a loan and a loan, what can you explain? there, what is meant, well , with all due respect, i just joined, i didn’t know what you were talking about, but if at any time, we sighed, mr. valery exchanged a couple of words, but no, well, look, the same soap opera , it has long since turned from a saga into a soap opera, therefore, in principle, i have already talked about it many times for a long time, firstly, it was still it is known in the months of october and november that this scenario will follow, secondly... already those who wanted

to give putin a pass to delay the process, they actually did it for six months, giving him the opportunity to concentrate his efforts in the military plan and allowing, well, in fact trying to block the supply of weapons, let's talk about it openly, i'm not naming names, i'm not saying that it was some kind of special agreement, no, it's done in a completely different way. there are such political figures in different countries who want to give certain signals, like, that's what happened , now, did it make it possible to completely block the supply of weapons, no , the administration predictably, it was known, but they still found the will and mechanisms to give 300 million now a package, and i 'll tell you, that despite the statement that this is a unique package, this is... maybe i'll say frankly,

maybe, but of course, it won't be the packages that we expect from this, what you asked, the unlocking, now regarding this solution, now i believe that... this is a decision to grant aid to ukraine, it can now be implemented, now i’m still saying it, they will drag on for a week, two or three months, but well, by the 22nd, in fact, before the holidays, it would be logical to finish already, even for johnson, but with such maneuvers , they are still delaying time, and in principle, this is an attempt to delay time, in fact, these are all other conversations, the border, other interests there, that's all... these are maneuvers, the main thing here is exactly who performs what role. now there is one more moment, the military-industrial complex has completed all issues of lobbying its interests, according to my information, well, i it can be seen even with the naked eye from the text itself. second, the issue of providing us

with budget assistance directly to the budget of ukraine, it is most likely realized precisely through another loan option. koziky , minister malyuska actually spoke about this in washington, and the white house, of course, once again rejects such a proposal, but the ukrainian side does not officially reject it anymore, that is, we need this help, will it come now in the form of a direct grant, or in the worst case option through option, well, credit, but which one there will be a loan, with what conditions, it is difficult to say, and we return to the question. this is a separate topic, but i believe that it was a mistake on the part of the democrats to take the issue of lendlease off the table as a negotiating tool, on the part of the ukrainian authorities not to prompt our partners and not to sign a bilateral agreement,

in which the conditions would clearly already be there , not necessarily huge payments, but it would be correct to do it in advance, and now now they will even... impose exactly this group will impose the conditions of the lease on their own principles, which are already donald trump pronounced cleanly. they are not the worst, by the way, because he also began to change his rhetoric, to say that it could be, indeed, some kind of loan, well, he said a loan, loon, although it is strange how here loon, well, okay, loon, then the question arises the conditions of its cancellation or return, there... he told you strange things , he said that if it is a friendly state, it may not give a loan, so you understand that now this part, most likely the money, it will not come grant, and military-technical assistance, i am sure, will already be obscene, absolutely on their part, in that johnson's number, restrain,

it's already time enough for, well, all the benchmarks have already been fulfilled, now all that remains is to get out of this situation, well , mr. valery, please tell me, what about this aid package for 300 million and an additional actually decree on aid for 126, for short-term perspective, how often can the united states use such a mechanism, or is this an isolated incident? i will tell you frankly, i did not check whether these 126 are under the act of 61, which allows the president of the united states to take without consent. gresu from these syllables, or is that part of the 300 million or not, i don't know , that's for sure, so most likely, the way i see it, most likely that's the part that consists of what's listed there, and plus that, if it's an additional 126, it would be

it is great, are there such opportunities in the future, funds from those allocated by congress are available, but they are not covered, there is such a situation, in principle , the position of the official washington now is this, if something is provided from warehouses, it must be in advance, the funds are provided for american industry for there is no replacement, this, that, so they can theoretically leave to that step, other countries are taking such a step, for example, i know for sure that denmark takes out of its warehouses what they need, in fact, what they have accounted for the protection of the country, they add it to us. there are other european countries that do this, that is, it requires the political will of the us president only to provide, well, this kind of current aid, but in order to really give the right signal to the kremlin, to unlock a large package, that is not only money, the money

remains mainly in america, 85%, there there are many directions, this is actually a plan of such actions, well, there was one for a year, there are others. blocs and directions, well, we will not talk about it now, but this is like a whole plan, if it is launched in such a holistic way, it is really a plan to help not only the defense of the country, but... attempts at de-occupation, well, a return to active action, so in this is the main question, that is why such packages, as they are now, they will not replace the strategic goal of the victory of ukraine, that is, they will not add to it, only a turnover, but tell me, please, mr. valery, if we talk about what is happening in europe, here you are saw this meeting at the level of the weimar triangle, as far as it is possible to consider that between germany and poland, there are no longer such differences as there were between germany and france. the last weeks, well , there will always be disagreements, this is basically competition, i

would say, healthy competition for active actions in continental europe, traditionally germany and france, they have always tried to show such initiatives , there were still leadership initiatives here, emmanuel macron, his statements are quite so decisive in the background. several statements of olaf scholz about the taurus missiles, of course it looked a bit like such an imbalance and i think it worried the german side, so i think that these moments were taken there, that is, that is purely external perception, but it is clear that the basic things are unlikely that they finally agreed, well to state that we have heard that some are happy and others are not so happy, because... if first there are such french very active statements, and then it is said that

this way the help will be maximum, in conditions where there are german intelligence reports that russia can attack germany, germany, nato already in nato countries already in 2026, and i would say that it is, well, it does not take everything into account, i think it will be earlier, at the end of this year, at the beginning of next year , because they do not take into account ... one factor that russia attacks not when it is strong, but when others are weak, and they will not have time to prepare, so i think that they are discussing these positions in fact, well, besides these statements , to prevent further escalation, it seems to me that this is already the case yesterday, i was surprised to hear from the results of the meeting to prevent another escalation, this is some kind of vocabulary that should already be forgotten, er... we need to take steps to anticipate, until i see that there would be steps to anticipate after this meeting, and

the fact that they have agreed on how to help the defense of ukraine now, it is, it is good. ugh. that is, as far as we understand, emmanuel macron tried to convince olaf scholz to be bolder on taurus, and olaf scholz tried to convince emmanuel macron to be more restrained in his statements on nato contingent in ukraine, well, french troops in ukraine. place of donald tusk, given the recent difficult relations between ukraine and poland, and certainly, after that, his visit to the united states? well , you know, the statements that are being made, yesterday, the security council of the united nations was about this, the so-called russian elections or the harsh assessment of the elections on the territory of ukraine, as another illegal act of the occupying forces, such statements are very harsh in... and very clearly already in unison they declare in washington, thank you, the same donald

tusk clearly stated the position and in relation to the matter actions and speaker johnson, it all looks normal, but i am now looking at specific actions, regarding, we have bilateral issues, if we talk about poland, then donald tusk announced that there will be a bilateral meeting. at the end of march, not even that, the 20th, when the issues will be finally resolved, well, to put it briefly, blocking the border, and i think that the date is already suitable, here the main thing is for us to do it, in terms of general statements, poland is one with us boats, and they understand them perfectly, the head of the national security bureau of poland, clearly publicly said that russia directly threatens poland now and in the near future. therefore, obviously, we thank poland for its support in the field of security, but in a total

war, all things are connected, if ukraine is weakened institutionally, and well, for the benefit of some corporate interests there or such interests of polish economic sectors there now, then excuse me, well, give with one hand support in the field of security, and another to take away the institutional capacity of the country, this is not the best scenario. donald tursky european. the politician perfectly understands this the problem, i think, puts issues of european security above some personal political ones, so i am sure that he should take his steps. and if we talk about how much this european situation affects the united states, how much the united states is interested in europeans behaving, let's say, like scholz or like macron, what do they need? well, actually, why did europe wake up, as much as

we called it, yes, it woke up because of the signal from washington, as soon as it became in europe. and this happened sometime in october, in november of last year , that there would be such a situation and sagging in america, they immediately understood that they had to prepare for the worst scenario, and this scenario might be, but it has not yet ended, that is, help is now help, and the main thing is what the strategy will be of the united states now and after the elections, that is, they understood that it was necessary to take on more... so washington gave a signal that woke up paris, berlin, well , the baltic countries actually did not need to be woken up, or poland or romania, which are close to us, but these capitals yes, he woke up even more, and in principle, now that there are such initiatives in

europe, already on the other side of the atlantic they are looking with some jealousy, because... the euro-atlantic area has always believed that from the usa the leader format ramstein is really important and the only such format that unites the countries of nato, the european union, other countries of the world in support of ukraine, the usa is the leader, every time the first package of aid was announced to the usa, by the way, on march 19 we expect the next ramstein and personal participation, god bless him, the head of the pentagon, he there again will announce the us package first, but when the french president began to talk about his initiative, it was placed on the capitalist hills, so it is not only statements, it is also a meeting of leaders actually without the us, but at the level of the head of the department of the specialized foreign policy

department there , but then there was no longer at the next meeting of ministers - the defense minister of foreign affairs, as far as i know, there was no representative of the united states, so there will be no replacement of ramstein, although such an attempt was made, and it is obvious that this encourages and the us administration to more decisive actions, so that there are influences, there are influences, and transatlantic unity is with such actions, it is back on the agenda again. thank you, mr. valery, valery chalyt, diplomat, former ambassador of ukraine. in the united states of america in 2015-2019 was on our air, now we will talk about something more eastern, say the region of our foreign policy and such application, mykhailo yakupovovich, orientalist in nask, congratulations, mr. mykhailo, good evening, well, zelensky was in

turkey, now he is going there after his own so-called elections putin, what does the president want? erdogan. well, for that reason, zelensky was also called, so that putin's visit could be legalized later. that is, to declare that, as they say, we are mediators, we are negotiators. erdogan now has local elections on his nose, which mean a lot, but in fact he has somewhat different considerations here, this consideration is to continue cooperation in the energy sector. in the security sphere with many countries, well , having noticed somewhere that not the weakness of the west, but the delay with help and a possible second coming trump, to play on this field, that's why he really expects putin, although everything is possible, there are also versions that this visit can

be postponed somewhere again, postponed and postponed, hanging slowly, mr. mihai. what would you call this format of our relations with turkey, when we understand that erdogan has his own interests and is determined to adhere to them, wants to be a mediator for ukraine and russia in our conflict, right? on the other hand, we see and understand how extraordinary the cooperation of the ukrainian military-industrial complex is and the turkish military-industrial complex. if we mention specific names, this is also the turkish analogue of haimars, which is not officially confirmed, but insiders note that it works in ukraine, this is a huge number of machines. kirby, which our marines use, well , if we recall the story with bayraktar in general, and not only the warehouse, we will have a corvette and it will be powerful after

the war, yes, but we are also building it together with turkey, and this is again a certain level of trust and cooperation, and what is it, what is it relations and should they be divided into two planes: purely political and purely economically military-industrial? there are several points worth noting here: first, a very good example is erdogan's relationship with the netanyahu government in israel. erdoğan sells everything to israel, despite the fact that politically he makes extremely anti-israeli statements, but he sells there from, from food to products that go to the israeli defense army, to components, to airplanes, various things. radar equipment, most importantly, everyone knows it, and on in the middle east, and everything is absolutely normal, azerbaijan and

saudi arabia are also actively cooperating there, but this is a slightly different reality. with ukraine, we see that this cooperation has great prospects. why? first, erdogan is a predictable politician. the only thing is, we cannot know how he will react to such... an unlikely, but still, version that the united states will withdraw from nato if trump is elected there, whether erdogan will back down, if nato really the statements made by macron will try to advance to ukraine somewhere at a more or less official level, won't erdogan say: you know, we will come out better from nato and be ashamed of neutrality, but at the moment he is a predictable politician, and if ... there will be a rearmament of the ukrainian army, specifically in terms of aircraft, then here turkey can be very useful for cooperation on the f-16

and very, very many other things, they have a lot of experience, including the experience of deploying field bases, even using the same tanks and german and american, everything else, countering them, means rebu there is a drone, they are extremely useful for... ukraine, that is, we see how great , albeit not public, cooperation is, and at the same time, we do not have information about the turks establishing military cooperation in the same way with the russians, that is after all, they have a certain vision and a certain strategy in this regard, so we see that there is some criticism from zelensky, well, except for the period when he was not yet the president... erdogan is not observed, and it is unlikely that there will be, therefore , even if putin's visit really takes place, then i don't

i think that the ukrainian authorities will react very sharply to this, especially since erdogan will definitely remind about the situation of the crimean tatars, about many other processes, and the only thing he is saying clearly is what he always said, that without russia ... that peace is impossible there, but since russia is the main initiator of the conflict, well, in principle, the reality is formed somewhere, that is, this phrase can be interpreted as you like, therefore erdogan is a politician with such experience, who will be projected for the future , and it seems to me that for ukraine he is better in spite of everything remains a positive ally rather than some such dark leader. which stands on that side together with iran, north korea, china, well, even though china is an ambiguous opposition, but erdogan is still

kinder and closer to us in some ways. what do you think putin needs to reprimand? well, putin needs the moments of non-imposition of sanctions to continue, let's not forget about those tankers that transport oil from... the base on the black sea coast of russia everywhere, and these oil terminals there are new russian ones, they are working, and it all goes through the bosphorus, but here erdogan, again, erdogan is looking at what sanctions, or not sanctions , are imposed by the west, and the west is fighting this export of russian oil with such steps, well here we are fighting here we are not fighting, he is buying through third countries, then cooperation on nuclear energy'. that is, these are the resource-technological approaches that turkey will be more of a beneficiary of, and it feels in a position

to expose russia. certain conditions, for example, to demand gas at a discount, to demand further investments in the nuclear industry, until, by the way, no full-fledged sanctions have been introduced against the russian nuclear power plant, let me remind you that russia has built a nuclear power plant there, but there are no strong sanctions against russian nuclear power plants, some countries have only tried to introduce them, such as great britain, well, there are probably some agreements regarding the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, and the safety of ukrainian nuclear power plants in this regard the plan this is classic, so that there is no escalation, because the topic is not only nuclear weapons, but nuclear power plants, it is very sensitive, annoying and scary for the west, that's why it's quite normal for erdogan, and in syria there are things happening there now processes that are a bit problematic, the fact is that the part of syria that is under the control of turkish troops, the international confrontation has intensified there, and it is possible

that... not without the influence of the special services of bashar al-assad, because he wants to regain control over that territory, therefore, somewhere here, the turks have to look at the balance of forces and use indirect approaches, take into account the russian presence there, and, well, there, too, they have a security issue that goes back to the roots of 2011-2012, so erdogan must also pay attention to... this the southern front in talks with putin, because putin can create problems for him there, just as erdogan created problems for bashar al-assad, but at the moment there is a plus or minus ugly truce in syria, but tell me, mr. mykhailo, in principle, if we are talking about this very distribution of forces in the middle east, there is russia in the interests of syria, there is turkey, there is iran, along with this

russia is being attacked by china. military exercises, that should worry turkey, i don't think it will worry them much because they don't have a very bad relationship with iran right now, they have their own relations with china, with russia, in principle, the issue of the black sea is here, at one time turkey applied the montreux convention, and zare tries to constantly talk about the fact that she will apply it, why, by the way, by independently building warships for of ukraine, with this blurred wording after the war, and this is how and when, especially from the point of view of international law, that it is happening at all now, but i do not think that these chinese-iranians will establish other exercises there, especially the turks , as no one sees how the russian ships in the crimea were relatively well beaten, and

the military forces... the naval forces of many countries are now undergoing a somewhat similar rethinking, that is, this naval component has become extremely vulnerable to missiles, drones, and everything else, at the same time, that it simply requires huge financial investments for maintenance. i would say that the turks will now study countermeasures, including the defense of their naval forces. therefore, these exercises are monitored. but maybe even with those positions, show us how not to do it, so that in the future we do not lose our fleet in some conflicts or lose our flagships, because turkey still positions itself as a leading maritime power in the eastern mediterranean, and even more so in the black the sea i can't get out of my head one thesis from the mouth of mr. volodymyr putin, he gave an interview there

on the eve of his elections in russia. is a russian state official and said that we are technically ready to use nuclear weapons, why do you think he emphasized it is a matter of technical readiness, that is , before all the kremlin propagandists shouted about political readiness at any moment, radioactive ash, and so on, but now they emphasize the technical condition of this entire system. from their nuclear triad , and how can and should china react to it, given its traditional position, well, first of all, china is also rearming its nuclear forces, it is not meant that they are creating new warheads, but that they check and modernize missiles.