yes, i would like to see how the mole votes , how vedmedyk votes, there is also peter pershenko, i think he voted, no, there was peter i, there was nikolayushka, but it was on the first day of those three election days, that is, on them, let's look, yes, oh, this, this is another, nizhot, and oh, you see, moles also vote, what, this mole is such a mole, well, well, here is something like that, the middle between , they call it elections, they came up with this themselves, let them have fun , and we now join our conversation with our next guest, counter-disinformation expert former waugh head of the center for countering disinformation.

andriy shapovalov at the nsdc is in touch with us, mr. andriy, we welcome you, colleagues, we were just talking about all that they call elections, and what is happening in russia and in other countries, and about the way soldiers somewhere near the wells ran to vote at the polling station and didn't make it, how do you consider it all for yourself, well, it's such a big performance that... aims today to legalize the process of re-electing the dictator, and all this cringe , it is done with one purpose, in order to show that the process of re-election itself is not so scary and not so funny, how it can be twisted even more, even more brought to the point of absurdity, and in this situation it already appears not as idiocy and not as stupid as it really is

, that's why the dead locust votes for putin, and grandmothers from broken ukrainian cities, are they only asking for bread and the opportunity to vote for putin, and their head of the cec said today that this was the dream of the residents of avdiyivka, well, the head of the cec is different, i think, on i don't know what to say today because for everyone... today the question of his re-election is a matter of life and death, it is a question of their future, that is, this gaga will be delayed very soon or a little in time, they are doing everything in order to delay in time, hoping, as in to the old one, in the old fable about the fact that in 40 years someone will definitely die, either ishah or padishak. well, someone

will die for sure, whether putin will die, or they will die, yes, but in this case we do not know, we do not know whether egyptian traditions will survive in this great renewed north korea, that is, what if the pharaoh is in will eventually go to kobzon, will all of them, including this eli, from the cec also have to lie down in a pyramid, or in a mausoleum, mr. andriy wanted to use your professional knowledge from the point of view of exactly that somewhere... information as planned information operations let's start with the fact that we just spoke a few minutes ago with our extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador, a very respected person, yuri shcherbak, in particular, who monitors both the election campaign and the american media, says that the americans were happy to reprint the material of the telegraph, an article about the fact that at the end of march, that is, somewhere in two weeks, ukraine will run out of all the necessary supplies.

stockpiles of anti-aircraft missiles, but if you strain your fingers at least a little, you can find out that the author of this publication is james kilner, and this is none other than the moscow bureau and the editorial office of the telegraph, and after that the question immediately arises, because the military they didn't say, the general staff didn't say that, but this publication has already gone to... all over the world, so it works now? well, it works like this not only now, it has been working for many years, and on today we can talk about the active phase of this perun campaign, which was warned by the main development department, this is an attempt by the russians to make the most of all their russian, even kgb, and fsb canned goods. which today will begin

to generate all kinds of so-called fatigue from the war in ukraine, this is one of the topics that the russians will continue to exploit. will be exploited, using their entire agency network, so you need to be ready for this and, in principle , you need to notify mr. andrii, what else besides fatigue from ukraine and the fact that the entire bc is ending, and there are no shells, and there is no help, what is still dominant for russian disinformation, the one that is happening outside of ukraine? well, since the 22nd year, they have not come up with anything new , the only thing is that the thesis is ukraine in three days, it went somewhere on the shelf, but again, this does not mean that they will not try to resurrect it at some point, this is the subject of

violent mobilization in ukraine, which will continue to be shaken, this is the topic of the fatigue of our partners, this is the topic of... the essence of the weapon, and one of the huge topics , to date, that they are shaking is the so-called vacuum of legitimacy campaign, and what they plan to shake at the end of may, about the illegitimacy of the alleged president , whose powers have expired, there they expire according to the constitution, well in fact, we can see that the russians are preparing such rather simple fakes for the ukrainian market, that is , they are talking about the evacuation of civil servants from kherson, they are making it up about the fact that kharkiv has left, that they are going to kyiv, cutting down forests all over belarus, and that's why they are already going there, about the fact that in kurshchyna, belgorod region, 15 servicemen, they destroyed the ukrainian ones, now they are telling another

story about the fact that 300 soldiers were eliminated after being hit by an air munition, it is about this bomb , our scouts, our official sources deny all this, well, in principle. that a ukrainian viewer, listener, reader, a ukrainian in general, can already distinguish where there is propaganda, can already find a source of information and draw some conclusions for themselves, that is, they understand, and what mechanisms they used for the west, because for ukraine, we understand why exactly these things are important, how they work with the same berlin, with paris, with britain, they use there are two, two such in... the directions of the big ones, the first - this is the thesis that not everything is so clear-cut, this is their favorite direction, and the second direction is the use of an alternative reality, that is , they try to get into the consciousness not directly there through the publications of the same and,

for example, tucker carlson, for whom they had huge hopes , but which one when he returned home, he said that he had never heard anything more stupid than these historical... putin's stories in his life, so they are trying to get in there through cinema, through sports, through music, through religious organizations, that is, they are looking for any cracks in the media space , even culinary blogs can be saturated with misinformation and propaganda, remember the famous story with gurant, who did something green there as ukrainians in some battle, well, even such ... well , there is nothing wrong with this, but in fact it is also part of a huge propaganda the machine of the russians, which they shake all over the world, they have one technology for african countries, different measures for other countries, for

europe their own, for america their own, for latin america, other technologies, i.e. all today... sources are acceptable for them, because once again, it is necessary to say that it is about their existence, in general, about their existence, about the existence of this regime. and how do you separate for yourself, mr. andriy, where there are useful idiots and where there are agents of influence, so we talked a few minutes ago about the coordination, some synchronicity of statements coming from trump, from orban, from fico and from the papers. who, it all boils down to two theses: stop providing military aid and raise the white flag and surrender, well, the two theses are basically working out, and in this case, the frictions from coordination, that’s who we are dealing with

, agents of influence, well, it’s kind of difficult to consider the elected heads of state as agents of influence, they are not under contract with the fsb or the foreign intelligence service of the ministry. defense of the russian federation? well, first of all, we have absolutely no idea what happened to them there in the past, because the russians are sufficiently insidious, and ah, if we speak against... conspiracies, then most likely we can assume the presence of some folders, the presence of some compromising material on one or another, including today's political leaders, who could have been there 30 even 20 years ago to lure into some kind of trap, but you yourself do not believe in conspiracy theories, so somehow i do not believe, but this is more a story about the possibilities for today, different. it

is quite difficult to find useful idiots from agents of the kremlin today, in the sense that it is already such a synthesized substance, and we assume that at some period those who were once recruited, they could later believe what they were broadcasting, and i can assume that they were quite frankly in principle. voice their position, this does not mean that it becomes correct, but when a person believes, you remember this famous blogger who is convincing in a tinfoil hat, and most likely he believes it, because it is so true to profess such values, well, it is unlikely that a person can play for a long time, and therefore for us there is no difference, then a useful idiot or agent. for the kremlin, it is important for us that the narratives they broadcast are, firstly,

false, and secondly, they harm both ukraine and the whole world, because today we are talking about the cannibalistic regime of putin, who will not spare no one on your way. and does the world actually see those moments, those rather delicate, such subtle, irritating places, which russia uses in order to throw its disinformation there, because we have simply learned so much over all these years of neighborhood, that is we just feel where something is wrong, where it is necessary to check , everything is interpreted a little differently there, maybe there are relevant structures and their intelligence that understand what is going on, but if we are talking about average residents of the same europe or the united states of america, or we... as a country now we have to do something to help them debunk all these myths,

all their information, misinformation that they pass off as true information, well, it must be said that the world is very different, there are countries that are very advanced in the fight against disinformation, there are countries, which have not yet met with the possible consequences of this, and they are quite safe about... this problem, but the most important thing is that the world lives in its own paradigm, each country lives in the objective reality in which it is in this particular period of time. and today, ah, well, it is unlikely that the average residents of, ah, the west, far from ukraine, for example, understand all the possible consequences of what is happening in ukraine and... what threatens russia today, they, they are more interested

in the issue of the supply of products there, the issue inflation, issues of election campaigns that are happening today, and this is a very dangerous trend in the sense that it also worries politicians, because this year we are entering such a very turbulent process, a huge... number of elections in the west, in the principles of an unprecedented number of elections and a huge number of populists who are trying to get to power today, and what 's better for populists, who hits higher, plays better, it's not about the truth, it's about the truth, shout louder, louder , and that's how you win voters, and it's also very dangerous for us. it is necessary to explain , and this is a very painstaking and very big job

, and it must be done, done, done constantly, mr. andriy, for a snack, here is just the freshest, yesterday prime minister orban, hungarian in the national museum, he kept his word there , because in them it was the anniversary of the events of the revolution, after which the austro-hungarian empire collapsed, he started talking about imperialism there, only he now has... brussels imperialism, and it is amazing that suddenly in his speech in that anti-european, which is traditional for orbán and... as a populist it suddenly sounded that everything, now there will be no more dominance of western civilization, now there will be a different redistribution of forces in the world, and he actually, well, he said it in hungarian, and this feeling , that this was what putin said to kiseleov, but i don’t think it’s a coincidence, but because putin’s ideas, dictatorial schemes,

are looked at by a lot of potential... dictators from all over the world, and it’s not only some wild uncivilized countries, many i would dream of repeating this putin's success, because he has been in power for 20 or so years, when you are already being carried into those offices, well, this is the dream of a large number of politicians, and today it is very important to fight back. and it is very important to show the whole world that it is not necessary to do as putin does, as it is dangerous to do as putin does, and this path of usurpation of power can only lead to one thing, to punishment and condemnation of such actions by the whole world. only in this case can we talk about some kind of collective security on the globe. actually, even within

nato, we can talk about collective security when fizo works for you, orban somehow. very difficult, especially these days. mr. andriy, thank you for your analysis and comments. andrii shapovalov, an expert in combating disinformation, and former head of the center for combating disinformation at the national security council. we're taking a short break, and then we'll have an exclusive sunday conversationalist for you. keeping a secret? we hold, stay with us. tired from heavy and bulky files, then the strong file from unpack tv is just for you, with it you can easily cut trees and bushes, it is so convenient to use it for carpentry work, it is an ideal tool for your home or garden, and the price is only from uah 1,499. a reliable battery is also included, just call now and order, there is a possibility

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stronger together, an unusual look at the news: good health, ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresen, sharp presentation of facts and competent opinions. and in america too they say, let's make better roads , we will have even better roads. a special look at the events in ukraine, there will be some katsaps on the border of kyiv and beyond. what kind of world does mr. norban dream of, can we imagine it? all this in an informational marathon with mykola veresny. saturday - 17:10, sunday 18:15. espresso. sumyshchyna is now under attack, under a frenzied attack by the russians, the launches of guided aerial bombs are actually being recorded. our morning guest alyona yatsina constantly told us in the morning that up to half a thousand cabov flies to sumy oblast on the border, so

it flies to this area, imagine, people actually can’t even leave their basements, it’s not about houses, it’s about something else, people are sitting in their basements , they can’t get out, they can’t evacuate, that’s why that they have passed a few meters, and it can already be dangerous for their lives, constantly in the air. their drones, scouts are hanging, and now we understand that a scout can fly immediately, therefore anything that is in the sky, that is in the air, from the russian side, poses a danger and a threat to our fellow citizens. well, and in the meantime, we will reveal the secret, we were waiting for this meeting on the air, just as they say, sunday, the day of indulgences, even so, according to the bible, it is the seventh day, right, that is, it is time to talk with a philosopher, a writer. and a translator. vakhtan kybululadze is in contact with our studio, in a couple of seconds, they tell us that they will make a good picture and sound. so we will

ask him how civilized and intelligent people suddenly so quickly turn into heroes of the film black comedy, do not look up. if you haven't seen it yet, you're free from espresso-time, that is, late at night, look don't look up, and you can. everything that runs in the news feed whether from america during the election campaign or from the united europe. vakhtan kyboladze is in touch with us, vakhtan, congratulations, glory to ukraine, to the heroes, glory, yes, i wanted to ask about, first about russian, because we see a certain transformation, it is very similar to what your colleague, the philosopher les poderevyanskyi proclaimed, no matter how hard you try. tried to talk to good, half-good russians with some rational things, tried even to make such a belief that they exist, no matter how much you read their jellyfish, bass, aster and

all the other detritus of russian journalism, you understand that all these years of russian aggression did not work, cause-and-effect chains did not work, whether they are starting to work now or not , i am now talking about... here are these videos that are posted en masse by russians on the internet, about how they fly to belgorod oblast, kursk oblast and so on, we listen to what they say behind the scenes, we read how they comment on these videos , and we want to understand, in appeared finally, as les poderivskyi said, i don't believe in the power of words, i believe in the power of arrival, but it appeared to them that this is a consequence, and the reason is their support for ... aggression and war against ukraine, i cannot comment on these posts, because i haven’t read anything russian for a long time

, well, believe me, they are there, i wish there wasn’t anything, i say that i would dream of waking up in a world where there is no tolstoyevsky, but unfortunately, it is, and the posts on the internet are ready , i would like not to see them and may not see them, mr. olectange, yes... please, please, continue, this is how this consequence appeared after all , whether the russians had reasons or not, how do we know, we cannot get into these painful cities, and in the end, why should we know this, we have to defeat them, that's how everything, in general, where does this question come from, why do we need to know what to do. the russians think, well, at least from this point of view, that for the first time we see russians fighting russians on russian territory , taking russians captive, this is what we

see now, we know what is happening there, i am not a military analyst and expert, i know what's there something is happening, well, if it's bad there, then it's good for us, well, roman and i have to read it, because it's our job... and in the end there is this principle that the enemy must be known and understood in order to defeat him, and we wanted more to ask for your position, actually not to read, explain, argue, because there are many ukrainians who not only read, but also believe all this and then act like russians, and defend criticism towards everything russian cultural, bookish, there are hands in the business of correcting

ukrainians , which just went somewhere cooperation, why not read this? there are no collaborators, and unfortunately, on our land there were collaborators both with the russian empire, just as when the nazis came to our land, there were collaborators with the nazis, and it seems to me that these were the same people, more who were ready to collaborate with the red army or with... and they repeat, that's why they can read, not read, right here the question is not the same, the question, well , as i understand it, the question is for me, as an intellectual, philosopher, writer, partly already a journalist, that i want i have to what should we do one must know the enemy, and i have such a metaphor that russia is a plague barrack of history,

and who should enter the barracks of doctors, they can get infected, they are exposed to terrible danger, well, we have the same, yes, we have to study russia, but it seems to me that fakes on the internet in russian can also be a subject of research, but first of all, here is russian perverted literature, their so-called art there, we have to study it, but we always have to understand that we are exposed at crazy risk, uh, uh... getting sick of it, how to keep that balance, that another question, you need to study, never again, well , i have such a recipe, we should never allow anything russian to be a subject on our free ukrainian land, neither language, nor literature, nor their so-called culture, politics, perverted christianity , theirs, which is not christianity, that is , it is a difficult task for us, how to study it and not get infected by it, well actually... dystopia and

many other characteristic things always throw us overboard, because we try to think that they also think , quite often things happen here that do not come to mind, well, you know, when, for example, a russian nazi sues the ministry of foreign affairs of russia for the fact that he was included in the ukrofascists, he is actually a russian and a real russian nazi, this is completely beyond the bounds of logic. in which you and i are somewhere trying to think and evaluate this popular support for russian aggression, and you, how should we , in principle, in the future look at all this from the point of view that sooner or later the war must somehow end there or be paused, this concept of russian measure, in fact, of such racism as such, will it still remain, or will it already be transformed into something else? firstly,

there is great optimism that the war will end one day, and we have to do something with russia afterwards, this war has been going on for centuries with russia, i really hope it will end in my lifetime, but that will mean that there will be no russia, but if it will not exist, then we will have to deal with another political reality that we can hardly imagine today, i am not a futurologist, i consider futurology a pseudoscience, therefore... we will not make predictions, i can only say descriptively now, and that what is happening to us now, describe it: we have to win this terrible war, our victory means the deconstruction of the russian empire, the deconstruction of the russian empire means the absence of any cultural, political, religious problem such as russia, this and there will be our victory, what will happen there, i can't predict, again,

we are not nazis, unlike the russians, we did not call.