which are worth noting, firstly, a very good example is erdogan's relationship with the netanyahu government in israel. erdoğan sells everything to israel, despite the fact that politically he makes extremely anti-israeli statements, but he sells there everything from food products that go to the israeli defense army, to components, to airplanes, to various radar equipment, too . most importantly, everyone knows this, and everything is absolutely normal in the middle east, azerbaijan is also actively cooperating there, saudi arabia, but these are already slightly different realities. with ukraine, we see that this cooperation has great prospects, why? first, erdogan is a predictable politician. the only thing is, we, ah, can't know how he will react to such an unlikely, but still, version. that the united states

will withdraw from nato if trump is elected there, will erdogan not back down, if nato, indeed, the statements made by macron will somewhere try to advance to ukraine on a more or less official level, will erdogan not say: you know , and we will get better from nato and let's sit in neutrality. however, he is currently a predictable politician, and if the rearmament of the ukrainian army will take place. and specifically in terms of aircraft, here turkey can be very useful for cooperation on the f-16 and very, very many other things, they have a lot of experience, including the experience of deploying field bases, even using the same tanks and german and american and all other means of countering it , the drone is there, they are extremely useful for ukraine, that is, we see, which... is big, wants

and not public cooperation, and at the same time, we do not have information about the turks establishing military cooperation in the same way with the russians, that is, they still have a certain vision and a certain strategy in this regard, so we see that some kind of criticism from zelenskyi, well, except for the period when he was not yet the president, erdoğan's address is not observed and... and it is unlikely that there will be, therefore, even if putin's visit really takes place, i do not think that the ukrainian the government will react very strongly to this, especially since erdogan will definitely remind about the situation of the crimean tatars, about a lot of other processes, and the only thing he clearly says is that he always said that without russia no peace is possible there, but since russia... is the main

initiator of the conflict, well then in principle, the realities are somewhere like that, that is, this phrase can be interpreted there as you like, therefore erdogan is a politician with such experience that will be projected for the future, and it seems to me that for ukraine he would rather remain a positive ally than something such a dark leader who stands on that side once. with iran, north korea, china, well, although the opposition to china is ambiguous, but erdogan is still in some respects more favorable and closer to us. and what does putin need from erdogan? in your opinion? well , putin needs the non- imposition of sanctions to continue. let's not forget about those tankers that transport oil from the black sea base. russia is everywhere, and these oil

terminals, there are new russian ones, others, they work, and it all goes through the posphorus, but here erdogan, again, erdogan is watching on what sanctions or not sanctions are imposed by the west, and the west is fighting this export of russian oil with such steps, well, here we are fighting, here we are not fighting, it purchases through third countries, then cooperation on nuclear energy, that is, it is so resourceful. technological approaches, of which turkey will be a greater beneficiary, and it feels in a position to impose certain conditions on russia, for example, to demand gas at a discount, to demand further investments in the nuclear industry, until, by the way , full-fledged sanctions against rosatom are not introduced, i remind you that there is russia zhs built, but there are no powerful sanctions against rosatom, some countries only tried to introduce them there, in great britain, well

, there are probably some agreements regarding the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, and the safety of ukrainian nuclear power plants in this regard, this is classic, so that there is no escalation, because the topic. .. and not only nuclear weapons, but nuclear power plants, it is very sensitive, annoying and timid for the west, that is why it is quite normal for erdogan, and in syria, he is currently undergoing processes that are a little problematic, the fact is that that part of syria that is under the control of turkish troops, the international confrontation has intensified there, and it is possible that it is not without the influence of bashar al-assad's special services, or... he seeks to regain control over that territory, so here somewhere the turks have to look at the balance of power and use not direct approaches, take into account the russian presence there, here and there, too, they have a security

issue that goes back to the roots of 2011-2012, so erdogan must also pay attention to this southern front in conversations with putin, because... putin can create there he has problems, yes just as erdogan created problems for bashar al-assad, but at the moment there is, well, such a plus or minus a temporary truce in syria. and tell me, mr. mykhailo, in principle, if we are talking about this very distribution of forces in the middle east, there is russia in the interests of syria, there is turkey, there is iran, along with this, russia and china are conducting joint military exercises, this should worry ? turkey. i don't think she's too concerned about that, because they don't have a very bad relationship with iran right now. they have their own relations with china. with russia, in principle, here is the issue of the black sea, and at one

time, turkey applied the montreux convention, and zare is constantly trying to say that she will apply it. and, by the way, independently building the military. ships for ukraine with this washed-out wording after the war, and this is how and when, especially from the point of view of international law, that it is happening at all now, but i do not think that these chinese-iranian exercises constitute other exercises, especially the turks, as no one can see, were relatively well beaten russian ships in crimea, and the forces , the navies of many countries are now finding... in something like this reinterpretation, that is, this component is naval, it has become extremely vulnerable to missiles, drones and everything else, despite the fact that for maintenance it simply needs huge financial investments. i would say that rather the turks will now study the means

of countermeasures, including the protection of their naval forces, so these exercises are being monitored, but maybe even... those positions, show us how not to to ensure that in the future we do not lose our fleet in any conflicts or lose our flagships, because turkey still positions itself as a leading maritime power in the eastern mediterranean, and even more so in the black sea. i can't get out of my head one thesis from the mouth of, excuse me, volodymyr putin, he gave an interview there on the eve of his elections in russia to the russian state assembly, and said. said that we are technically ready for the use of nuclear weapons, why do you think he emphasized the issue of technical readiness, that is earlier, all the kremlin propagandists shouted about political readiness at any moment,

radioactive ash, and so on, and now they emphasize the technical state of this entire system, their nuclear triad, and how about it... it can and should, given the traditional position, react china? well, for one thing, china is also rearming its nuclear forces, meaning not that they are creating new warheads, but that they are testing and upgrading missiles. by the way, most of the modernization and re-equipment programs of this nuclear component in countries such as france, great britain, the united states, china, and russia began 5-7 years ago. it is possible that there was a premonition, an actual increase in the importance of these things. china will now take advantage of what other nuclear states declare, in particular, macron's statement

caused quite a lively discussion, because france remains the only nuclear state in the european union, which, as they say, has potential. neither the introduction nor the exclusion of such a careful wording of the use of troops somewhere in ukraine is still a nuclear state and so on, it causes a certain degree of rhetoric, to which... putin responded accordingly. china in this regard, it has already learned to distinguish where putin is being intimidated, where putin is being real crooks, but for now at least the basic information on which everything about russian nuclear threats is based, that there is a certain agreement between russia and china to avoid the level of this escalation, it is being carried out, and the united states, actually through the state department, immediately declared that they do not see it. in the event of a negative war scenario

for russia to move nuclear weapons on its own territories they can start and no china will do anything to them in this case, another issue is that this scenario is not considered possible now, no matter what, but everyone, the entire nuclear club... will pay more and more attention to nuclear component, in particular on the carrier, there are ballistic missiles, supersonic missiles and everything else, everything that will be difficult to shoot down, that is , a race of nuclear arms will begin, it is already foreseen , there is no talk of reducing the arsenal, and china will also work here, because well , in this situation, you have to rely only on myself, but so far from china there were no such... open signals that they say moscow needs to slow down, they always,

when they criticize moscow, as they say, one word against moscow, 10 words against the west, don't escalate you, then these will not escalate, i.e. beyond the limits of this political discourse, xi jinping has not yet come out publicly, but he is also waiting for the elections in the usa, he is also waiting to see if trump will return, which will confirm these european statements. whether there will be a transfer of nato and nuclear forces components to eastern europe, because there the poles gave signals that they are not against nuclear weapons on their territory, well, if russia is allowed in belarus, why not, for example, in the united states or in france, in poland, although the french component is not under nato control, that is, these are processes that will take a few more years, but the dynamics are obvious, this is a transition to a better understanding of a more important nuclear component. in a potential future war. thank you, mr. mykhailo. orientalist mykhailo yakubovych was on our air, and we are now

let's break for a few minutes and continue our conversation after this short break, please stay with us and we will be in touch.

an unusual look at the news. good health, ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresen. sharp presentation of facts and competent opinions. and in america they also say, let's have better roads , we will have even better ones. a special look at events in ukraine and beyond. what a world you dream of, mr. norman. all this in an informational marathon with mykola veresny saturday 17:10, sunday 18:15 on espresso. see this week in the collaborators program. how did a doctor from mariupol treat wounded ukrainian soldiers? during hostilities, many ophthalmologists left mariupol. but which of the teachers in kherson worked for the russian fsb for years. each of us, to the extent of our strength and capabilities , brought this union, the union with russia, closer. on tuesday, march 19, at 5:45 p.m., watch the collaborators program with olena kononenko on

the espresso tv channel. we continue the saturday polyclub program on the espresso tv channel. khrystyna yatskiva. vitaly portnikov and whole hour with mr. vitaly. ukrainians are interested in answers to questions that concern ukrainians. well, even if they are not interested, we have to look. extremely interesting things are happening in the russian federation, another presidential election of putin, oil refineries are exploding with enviable regularity. literally in the last night we have very cool hits and of course we have certain events in the territories bordering our state, but all this in the complex does not at all speak of any stability in the swamps, don’t you think , it seems, i don’t know how much putin interested in stability in this situation, to be honest, because maybe he wants

to act as a person who should restore stability, this is also his favorite role, he left this role for these. 24 years, however, when we talk about putin's political career, we must remember that he is a war president. ugh, he became president, he generally got a rating in 1999-2000 as a war president. by and large, they started the second tsvichensky war and all these acts of terrorism, because they did not have there is no other chance to convince the russians that they need this president, whose existence a few months before his... appointment as the prime minister of the russian federation, was not known even in the cabinet of ministers of the russian federation, so anonymous was this person, we have to remember that, and putin began to build his image precisely as a person who is able to restore order, who is young, a new face, a simple

guy, who will urinate in toilets, and that's what putin was, we can talk about this putin. already forgotten, but this is not putin, this is 24-year-old putin ancient times, and after that russia began to go towards such, i would say, stability, stagnation, and by and large, putin has already begun to be compared with brezhnev, but the question always arises as to how ready he is to be in this role as well. in addition, by the way, if compared with brezhny, brezhny was already a person who led to stability. after khrushchev's turbulence, and also a young guy, handsome, er, not the one, such a contrast to khrushchev, who was already starting to bore people with this kind of restlessness of his and the fact that everything was changing and every for two years there, no one understood whether it was a thaw or a reaction, but everything ended with the war in afghanistan, yes, that is, in fact, these regimes

always go through such stages, from er... turbulence to stability and through stability to turbulence, so that if you think that putin is sitting there and suffering , no, he just feels more or less confident in such a situation, because he knows what to do, fight, shoot, kill, bomb, the question is how much strength he has and resources, this is the most important thing, because when we list all this, we have to understand a simple thing: that really strikes on refineries, if they reduce the capabilities of russian oil refining, it is important, and the prices of gasoline in russia are really rising, which means that if the prices of gasoline rise, then the prices will rise on goods, foodstuffs, the situation will worsen, the economic situation , putin is not interested in this, so we

have to understand that the blows to the russian economy are... a real tool for putin to think about the fact that he needs to leave from the war, not immediately, but in in principle, this is no longer entertainment, this is one moment, if there is any instability in the border regions, i do not know how serious it is, because you and i do not even know what is happening in the border regions, we do not have the main information with you , as much as after these famous raids on shchebekin, in the belgorod region, they strengthened the border. because we forget all the time that russians learn perfectly from their mistakes, these lines of slurikhin, which were built on the line of convergence, demonstrated this, and by and large, what we did not say, and this is the key point that created problems for our attack, not that we prepared for a long time, well , we prepared for a long time, so they built them for a long time, not that they did not give us any weapons, but that there there was

time to build such defense fortifications, huh, what is happening on the very border of russia and ukraine? you understand how many fortifications there are already there, through which it is impossible to break through , and here i want to say one more moment, and we generally have fortifications on the border along the entire border line, that's where we break through on from belgorod oblast, to belgorod oblast, they can break through in turn, well, they regularly go to rg, sumy oblast, which means we need to understand that we need to think about such real fortifications. along the entire length of the border between the russian federation and ukraine, and about some special protection measures on the border with belarus. by the way, when president macron spoke about the frenchman. troops or are there any western troops on the border with belarus, he already meant that we cannot stand on the border with russia, but on the border with we can be belarusians, this is an interesting

remark, but what about the union state, well, the union state does not have such obvious obligations that would not allow a third country to be militarily present in one country, because of course this a third country is not going to attack belarus, the territory of ukraine. understandable, but this is just such a remark, because instead of thinking about the success or failure of these raids, i was interested in two things: the defensive fortifications of the russians on the border, and our defensive fortifications, behind big accounts need to understand how we should live in the next 20-25 years, that is, like a fortress, so that it is not possible to really break through our borders, that is... if the borders are not protected by at least some international agreements, conditional, at least such as minsk agreements , yes, then the only possibility to protect them is fortification, which means

that in the future the main money of the ukrainian state should not go to roads, not to thresholds, there should be no roads at all, not to social benefits, to fortification, people should be resettled from border areas selich, have a resettlement program, there should be an empty or such area. free from the population, from arable land , from everything, a certain corridor, there should only be fortifications here and there, you have to sacrifice, this, i’m sorry, is not liechtenstein, you can sacrifice some part of the territory so that the rest is not taken over, you can find a social program evicting people to other villages, because once these unfortunate villages were flooded, it was a tragedy to make a reservoir, well i think that's just that, you know, an illustration of socialism. but in the situation, if we resettle people to they were not attacked, they were not cut into the interior of the country, we create for them the possibility of a new village there or life in some other village,

where there is some combine or factory where people have to work, we need to take them from there and build a fortification there , so that only the border troops were there, ugh, that's what i'm honestly interested in much more than who will go to which aunt's place, take a picture, maybe take a ride and come back. because you and i absolutely understand that all these have no real impact on the stability of the russian state raids on belgorod region or kursk region, but they can't really be affected for one simple reason, that the only territory that can be affected in russia is the hero city of moscow, and i say this all the time, because i remember the reaction muscovites for... the chechen war, there was none, they were not interested in it at all, but if something happened that somehow

interested them directly, they immediately got excited, here was the famous story about the theater center in dubrovka, where hostages were taken, and there was a meeting with putin, which then... was deciphered on the lips in a television program on one of the russian television channels, and there mikhail kasyanov convinced putin that it was impossible to carry out the raid for the release of hostages, which ended in the death of many people, planned by the fsb and the ministry of affairs of russia federation, and putin told him, but don't you understand that in a few days we will be demolished, and indeed then in moscow, on red square, anti-war protests began. demonstrations, the relatives of the hostages came out, and among them were famous people, and no one touched them, now

the moment of the explosion of houses in moscow, while these houses were being blown up somewhere in buynaksk or in volgodonsk, absolutely no one was interested in this, because it is in the province, something is exploding there, as soon as the houses in moscow started. and another important point, not just in moscow, but it must be in the sleeping areas of moscow, huh, because if you blow up a house on the arbat or there, i don’t know in what garden ring on the patriarchal ponds, blow up the house, it will cause only joy, okay, explain to those who, well, class joy, classy, ​​well, the bourgeois are rich, well, how much is an apartment worth patriarchal ponds. as bulgakov said there, it's not a good apartment, how much is it worth, millions of dollars, if a person has money worth millions of dollars for an apartment, while i barely manage to take the subway... to go from work

to work home for one and a half hours every day, if she couldn't stop this war, it's not my problem, but in the slums, it's class solidarity, huh, and that's why i told my colleagues then, who were all incredibly scared, what are you scared of, we live in the center of moscow, nobody comes to our houses does not blow up. if you lived there somewhere in i don't know there in some medvedkova printery, i don't remember what it's called and so on, of course you can be blown up, you can even not sleep, but if you live here, where are we there we live in moscow, so why bother, we are simply in a different place from the point of view of our professional duties, that's what we need, and it's the alphabet of russian politics, huh, so if someone

runs somewhere, oh, they run. .. from grayvoron, well, to this muscovite, who are residents villages in the kharkiv region, that the inhabitants of this village in the belgorod region are called lokhs in one word, yes, some lokhs live in the kharkiv region, others in , russian, ukrainian, it's still a place where people don't live, but run here and there like torans, but in moscow - and this is an important point: the destabilization of the capital is the key to the collapse of any russian regime. all russian revolutions did not begin in the provinces, in moscow and petrograd. well well, mr. vitaly, from the fact that we had time to talk with expert circles, the supply of oil products to moscow and the region is already under great question, well, good, good for, if they don't have something to fill their cars with... conditionally moscow from

this the reason will collapse , they will think, they will think, but it is necessary to prove it, this is how moscow collapsed at one time, when it became clear that the end of the regime , when there was no bread, for example, there was such a moment in 1991, when for some reason there was no bread, and by the way, they said that when khrushchev collapsed in 1964 year, there was no bread then either, somehow the party leadership was preparing the population that there would be a change of power, this beloved receiver, the bread disappears somewhere, and... and then it appears after the plenums of the cpsu, do people already understand, and how strange , this is such an indicator at the level of the subconscious, but i remember that i was standing in line in some trucks came to the car, and we bought baguettes from these trucks, as funny as it sounds, and i was standing in line between the counselor of the canadian embassy and a counselor at the us embassy, ​​because i was then living somewhere in arbat district and all those embassies there, and we

laughed a lot. because bread was not sold in these special shops for foreigners, they could buy anything they wanted, there were some goods that no one had seen from soviet people, yes, even food, but bread was not expected, because it was everywhere and cheap and more -less quality, well, they stood, and we all agreed that this is the end, the end of the state, and i think that if such a situation can really happen, i just don’t really understand how to achieve it with the help of... drones , to be honest, how much a drone can destroy an entire refinery, not just slow it down or reduce its volume, but if we imagine that this is a system collapse, uh, that there is no gasoline at moscow gas stations, then i don't think that it's just oops, let's we will destroy this ukraine so that we have gasoline, it is a long wait, maybe you will do something so that they will appear in us sooner than you will be five more years, we will destroy it, we agree, we have

a consensus , that it is needed... but how much you will do it, until you do it, we are nowhere we won't get there and we won't go anywhere, but it should be exactly at the level of moscow, not even petersburg, if there is no fuel and no goods in petersburg, this is only calling muscovites with religious joy, that is, if you want to support the russian regime, you have to tell muscovites that the people of st. petersburg have nothing, well, not like during the blockade, but in principle, so that there was nothing to eat, i remember the joy that, when st. petersburg almost did not develop... action moscow razuvalitsi muscovites came to st. petersburg and saw his shabby streets, entrances, absence tourists, this was in the pre-putin period and the first putin period, and it caused only satisfaction, well, such and such a country, such a country, you can’t do anything, such a character , that is, a moscow-centric country, ugh, and by and large, you have to understand that it is, as you know, how in these russian folk...