they were allocated a room, and they start , there are several sections, they start putting on performances, they start discussions, they hold creative evenings dedicated to repressed artists, and for a moment they are stus and symonenko, svitlichnyi and all, that is, the whole whole, this a whole group of people. er, you already mentioned the stained-glass window, you mentioned the stained-glass window called shevchenko-mother, please tell me what kind of story it was, because her loss, that is, the tragedy of fate, it repeats itself all the time, that is, that none of her theatrical work was embodied, as well all that was destroyed, that's one thing, and now the stained glass window, what kind of stained glass is this, what kind of stories are these? the story is quite well-known, moreover, i would say that they know about gurska, mostly thanks

to this dramatic event, she generally discovers the image of shevchenko and he , until the 60s, has already experienced many waves, sacralization, desacralization, i.e. shevchenko was different, very different, bronze, and not bronze, yes, but hungarian. finds his shevchenko and it is a very expressive image, he really does not look like anything and very, very powerful, it's such a fierce and angry shevchenko, eh, and eh, it's on the verge of grotesque, it's very bold, even for today, stained glass, it's not so expressively solved, but it's impressive, it's really not completely inappropriate. to this soviet dogma about

the singer of peasant slavery and the singer of the friendship of peoples, yes, this is the angry shevchenko who embraces ukraine and this history, and he also makes such a threatening gesture with his right hand over his head and the kobzar there, yes, he is holding it. kobzorya in one hand, threatens the other, and that's all is accompanied by an inscription, i will raise up these little dumb slaves , and i will put a word on the guard around them, and to me, it is very ironic to me that this is the same as ktm started with some completely soviet such idea, so that it was the 150th anniversary shevchenko, and this is in the red building of the university, the red building of the university, and in fact, when they present... a model in life, in

life size, and the rector, seeing it in the morning, he is frightened, and with his own hand, he destroys this stained-glass window, just a window , yes, i have memories of mykhailyna kotsiubynska, actually one brilliant sixty-year-old, he says, she quotes the words of the rector, who says why mother ukraine is so sad, what court, what punishment and who does taras call on in general. why is it ukraine behind bars, because we will actually show it and show it, actually in this stained glass window, it looks like an arrest, it could be like that, but it seems to me that it is so , well, they are talking, that is, they see playing there, well, probably there was not even such an idea, but it really is so, and in general, this topic with shevchenko ktm and the youth itself then they really are. appeals

to shevchenko again and they begin to bronze him, they start alongside these soviet, boring, insincere celebrations, they need to find some tradition of their own, and they begin to honor shevchenko as early as may 22, the day of his reburial, and this simply causes a terrible stir in the government offices . resistance and it seems to me that some komsomol official also writes a resolution that, god forbid, the commemoration of shevchenko on may 22 offends the brotherly russian people, so this is a documentary quote, because i am already a consequence, i am a witness of the consequences of this, because actually this is how i understand what you are saying, that... alagorska has this

tradition, well, one of those who started this tradition, to put flowers on may 22 to shevchenko , and when i was a student, we studied, i studied in... the yellow building, and we knew that on june 22, you can't lay flowers, because you can be summoned to the komsomol committee, you can be summoned from the party wherever you were partisan to exclude, because this quote that you hate is the dinner, and it lasted until the 89th year, it again, a story about persistence and how it all continues to affect and in general. if we talk about ktm and this, let's say , this circle of gorska, it seems to me that it was such a germ of civil society, that is, everything that this entire network of solidarity that we see today, and the volunteer

and aid network, was formed precisely then, in the modern form, sometimes these are the same people, their descendants, this is... just a continuous tradition from there, and now i remember this poem that stus wrote about it, yariy soul, cheer up and don't cry, and he says to the embryos of this civil society, because there are little of us, only for prayers and hopes, and but, but i want to say that i was amazed, this generation of people born somewhere between 20 ... in 1928 and 1945, in the west, this generation is called the silent generation, and it seems to me that in ukraine, well, actually, it was also a silent generation, if it were not for the sixties, that is, it is really such a small group of people,

but they found their voice and they created, created a completely different face generation. you said the fourth stands up in the 65th year, it is the 65th year of internationalism or russians, he writes about internationalism or russification and he stands up and talks about the wave of arrests at the premiers of the shadows of the forgotten ancestors of parajanov and, in principle

, this is a truly silent generation, because there great people who talk, who talk, i understand that she was being followed by... she knew that she was being followed, yes, absolutely, moreover, she knew some of these people by face, and even one of them dedicated a poem, he is always next to theirs he sat a little higher in zaretskyi's apartment on repa, on what was then the street of today's tereshchenkovska. and watched, just watched, yes, and she wrote on the roof of the marten yagawa, sit hard on the steps, arnold is wondering where mrs. gorska is blocking, he was called arnold, i don’t know if he is yes, and then they changed these lines a little

on the sabers to sit hard and that's how she begins her letters to the bays actually, but she also knew about the persecution by the kgb on... the left, as they say in hungarian, she got into it from the year 62, when they from the actual simonenko and tanyuk open a burial ground in the bikovna, again in the ktm to them, they spend the evening in memory of kurbas, and they start, since it is really small. for several years from lygia, you can talk about it, they talk about the shot revival, they talk about kurbas, and after that evening a woman approaches tanyuk and says that you are talking about solovki, and we have our own solovki here under kiev, and tells

them that this is a book store, and they are still naive enough, they go there, and taniuk leaves in in their memories, this, this terrible episode, that they... come and see how children, and next to the pioneer camp, children are playing football with a child's skull, and it struck them, they were completely shocked. and the scale and size of this cemetery, and the fact that no one talks about it at all, that is, silence reigns, no one, everyone continues to be afraid, and they are completely naive, tanyuk writes a letter to the city council that the graves need to be put in order, it is clear that no one answers them, symonenko will be beaten shortly after that, and he will live for another couple of years. and close an attack on tanyuk, and zahorskyi will

be monitored, that is, in 1962 she was followed, and in 1962 she did not exhibit as a painter, that is, she no longer had exhibitions, and we will now talk about exhibitions in relation to creativity, i understand correctly that on to your exhibition about her, because it is called the largest exhibition, so about... hungary, these are all these stories that we are talking about now, so the bullpen, the model, shevchenko, there and so on, it will all be possible, you have some artifacts, you show something somehow, that's all these themes, they are revealed at the exhibition, and we are very grateful to the bykovnyan graves memorial center, they provided the buttons, this is the only thing left from the people. buried there, and we will exhibit them, there will be a video, there will be

tanyuk's texts, because there is nothing left, of course, there will be a hall of representations related to the circle of communication of uhorska, and there will be a lot of portraits, her like-minded people, there will be friends, a kiss, a brat, a light-hearted one. the theme of the hall is related to influences with dialogues with washes of the older generation, because it is also for her, as for an artist it is very important, and maybe we will also talk about it separately a little bit, but we are talking about the stained glass window of mother shevchenko, we will present a sketch that has survived, and there will be an audiovisual installation created by modern artists, oleksiy sai, marusyk and oleksandr kokhanovskyi , this is such a huge

, very impressive video installation with this stained glass window, we will reproduce it, we have a recording that you will, i understand that it will also be shown, so actually these memories of alla gorska, and the people who knew her , artists who knew, let's give him now let's see and then we will continue the conversation, ukrainian beach, this bridge from... the zone to the beaches and back, this is for me the formula of aligorska, in general, you do not have ukrainian art at all, and you have only one grayness, you are not even colored you see, it worked as if they felt that there was not enough time for all of them to declare themselves, as artists, as people, as another ukraine, as other... dimensions of reality, they created other realities, simply simply, they say that you hang out there with

these sixties, they are nothing revolutions were not made, if you were a participant there and all that, you would understand that this is the number one revolution, they were europeans, and they created a european ukraine here, a new intelligentsia was born for the first time, the one that they cut off for decades, destroyed, it ... was born in a new generation, well, i don't know what it's called now, charisma, there was absolutely nothing in her that could repel, she was burning with some kind of, you know, obligation, impatience for work, incredible love for art and endless, she did not let go of a single brush, not a pencil out of her hands, she, she could just... be cute like that, but despite all that, she was

very sharp and categorically untrue, allah was one of those people who felt any injustice very subtly, well, i don't know how it's not a flash, it's like an explosion, a mountain rises , and there it is, full height, it 's white hair, and she's there... you lie so loudly, i just remember, and it felt like the hall was asking . and silence, one must have great courage to oppose oneself to this essentially fascist system, here it is action, there was a fright for the entire soviet union, rebellious talented, beautiful,

pure spiritual people. were led to execution, about these pogroms, about this destruction of art during the soviet era, it just hurts to talk, it was at every step. so i listened, i thought that actually, in our broken historical memory, it is absolutely priceless that you took the testimony of these people, how you use it at the exhibition in..., how it will sound on the exhibition, these will be plasmas, and people will be able to come up and listen, just look, look, well, these people can be present, those who are so definitely we, we invite everyone, i thought, you know that you said that in 62, that is, the 62nd year, alaia gorska began

to be monitored, yes , she is no longer exhibited, she can't actually. to show her works somewhere, in 1968 she was expelled from the union of artists, for what? and she was expelled twice, the first time, yes, yes, yes, the first time she was expelled actually for the stained glass window, ah, and the second time for signing a letter, the well-known letter 139, where 39 became y... completely different people, actually write like this well, let's say it's a letter, a letter, a protest against oppression, against illegality, conducting political affairs, and it's a very brave step at that

time, and the second time they exclude the gorska. from the union and to begin, the father actually begins his open conflict with the kgb, and there i am, i understand correctly that it was paradzhanov’s first signature, parodzhanov was the first, and there is such a story that they carried this letter on the kyiv-moscow train , they brought and handed over comptiums to the central committee, and what they were counting on, i think about these all the time people, for what? dzyuba counted on, yes, when he stood up in the cinema of ukraine and did this, this manifesto, in fact, and when he wrote internationalism or russification, what did these 139 people count on, when, when they already understood everything, well, everything was clear, how you explain it, you know, it seems to me that in the first half of the 60s, it was still

such a youthful naivety, it seemed to them that it was possible to come to an agreement with the authorities, that... it was possible to somehow point out some shortcomings, yes, well and actually they appeal to legality all the time, that is look, as if stalin's crimes were officially condemned, de-stalinization took place, and we somehow have to exist on the basis of such a purportedly purified society, yes, yes, already after these arrests in the mid-60s, yes, at the end of the 60s, these... . letters, it is rather such a demonstration of solidarity, this, i do not think that they hoped for any positive reaction, it is rather such a demonstration that we are, that we are together, and that we are against, in fact, yes, this is courage , absolute courage that, i

promised to return to creativity, you said that after the year 62 she could not exhibit, but it is obvious that... she wrote something, did something, she enters monumentalism, that is, the theater is closed to her, performances are prohibited and she cannot exhibit, and since monumentalism, as no wonder, this pressing is powerful, it was less there, because this is the art of the collective, there somehow the responsibility is not individual, and so... this saves her to a certain extent, but again, she finds for herself in monumentalism some purely creative solutions, perhaps, which she does not from... wings in painting, and she turns to a-a to her predecessors and predecessors and

to folk art, this is really such and such a signpost for her, and again i want to say that the works presented at the exhibition are this too such a bonus to the exposition, these are the works of artists with whom she had these artistic dialogues, these are also... the works of petrytskyi anatoly petrytskyi and portraits of petrytskyi authorship of horska and the works of primachenko, the works of anna sobachko shostostok and the works of the boychukists, oleksandr sayenko and serhiy colossus, because it's true, when you read these correspondences with opanas zalevakha, you understand that this is a person who will be persecuted here all the time. yes, another person is serving a sentence in mordovia, and they talk about art, about the fact that new ukrainian art is already a fact

of reality, and they also feel called to carry this burden, and actually it is not a burden, but it is a mission, i.e. for them, they are a mission, a new ukrainian art, as a combination of two such. boychukism or the legacy of the avant-garde of the 20s and folk are important things art, and where, where are you reading these letters, they are published by mr. zelevach alagorsky, yes, yes, yes, they are published, this is a separate book edited by ludmila ogneva, the alagor soul of the ukrainian sixties, and i worked in... of literature in sofia, there is a lot of it, there again these letters of hers are presented, and sketches, some marginalia,

it is very interesting to read, i will also ask you, in which museums are her works in ukrainian and possibly world museums, what is left, there are not so many of them left, unfortunately, but again, we have... many museums for the exhibition and private collections have provided works, this is the national art museum, this is the national museum of decorative arts, this is the andrei sheptytskyi national museum in lviv, this is the sixties museum, the museum of literature, that is, in soviet times it was as it was, they were somewhere in storage or somehow after that, after the murder, we will talk more about her death, but what happened to her works, that is, when in the 70th year... uh, she was killed, actually, some works, they were already in in state collections, but there were not many of them, after that her son oleksii

zaretsky handed over part of his works and archives to museums, this is the museum of literature, the museum of the sixties, and again i want to say that we will show many works from the collection of his own family, these are works from... the collection of olena zaretsky, this is zaretsky's granddaughter - uhorska, and she is actually also the co-curator of this exhibition, and i, now we will talk about ala gorska, about her life, i now want to ask you about this story of hers with her terrible death, which happened in the 70s, i i once talked about it with yevhen svirtsuu. because it was he who came to this place and he actually saw this picture in vasylkov's cellar, and what do you know, what can

you tell, you researched it more deeply, for me it's just some kind of terrible event, which, as a metaphor in general, in relation to her life, in relation to all these people, the 60s, who are actually there... this is the beginning of this stagnation and horror in relation to ukrainian culture, that, what happened at that time, it was november, so in 1970 or december, 1970, in december 1970 th year, and as far as i understand, they were tapped and this surveillance and murder was being prepared, she goes to the mother-in-law, to her husband's father vasylki, for the sewing machine, she left early in the morning not... they returned, when they started looking for her, they first found the bodies, the body, the decapitated body of the father-in-law, and then, in fate, she was killed.

alogorska and a lot of legends have arisen around it, but it is clear that the fact that it is the kgb, well, it does not raise any questions, it really was, they simply could not do anything with gorska, that is, it was that much. a powerful charismatic person on the one hand, on the other hand she was a certain symbol, a woman, an artist, and thirdly, it seems that this process of tightening the nuts, it was also connected with the early spring, that is , they understood that these are some liberal movements, they are very dangerous, that something with this must be ended in some way, yes, that is

simple. to torture all of this under the asphalt, and someone is imprisoned for huge, terrible terms, and those who can't do anything with whom, they just kill, this is the gloss 139, this is also the year 68, and they, they were accused , that it was some terrorist organization from bandera and that the leader was there, and rumors are that she too he writes about this in his memoirs, that they rolled there. the people of bender, scoundrels, but, well , they are accused of all kinds of sins, and uh, it is clear that they sought to frighten, in general, they sought to simply terrorize this environment, but in the end they did not succeed, that is gorska becomes a symbol, that is , they receive an icon instead of a sacrifice, and...

well, actually, we know the subsequent history. we know this photo where vasyl stus is holding a photo at the funeral of ale gorska, and he is holding this large portrait of gorska as an icon, in fact, but it's all written on his face. that is, it is clear what a loss it was for them. and now i want to end with what i started, in fact, this story, i would say, is a story. the catastrophe of a creative person, yes, that is, this is a destroyed, destroyed artist, artist, a destroyed generation, yes, which could have done much more, eh, it sounds somehow different now, but for you, let’s say, well, you obviously knew this before, but it’s just that, for me personally, it somehow takes on completely new meanings, now that we see other examples of it, yes

it absolutely resonates and rhymes, terribly rhymes with russia's modern destruction of ukrainian masters, ukrainian intellectuals, that is, it all continues, it started not yesterday and no, not 100 years ago, that is, it is such a terrible link in this chain, but with on the other hand, i... understand that today an exhibition of alegorska is held in the largest, largest exhibition space, more than a bunch of works are presented, and she continues to unite people, that is, as in her life, she was a person of some extraordinary charisma and extraordinary beauty both external and internal, and now she continues

to unite. people, i.e. a large number , a huge number of people of institutions, but now during the war they were not afraid to provide works from their artistic stores, we are now publishing a book with these works with texts by our leading art critics, that is, hungarian continues to be such a leader in... the heart and the icon of the opera, tell me with whom you are doing this exhibition, that is, who are you co-organizers, yes, there is a ducat, who else are we the initiators, the ukrainian house, actually went to meeting, we do it together with the ukrainian house team, and again, these are museums, these are private collectors.