management that exists, it is clear that if your dictatorship is built on a submissive society, where a paternal type of political culture dominates, or a subject one, and accordingly, then for you an effective model of management is to take everything under control and take it to the nail. war is not the time to change these patterns. the army is always an extension of society. you cannot build a decentralized army in a centralized society. where in a centralized society it is decentralized on the contrary. you cannot make an army more innovative than it is capable of be your society, the same with management models, you in wartime, if you try to reforge it from a democratic society, there are no personal.

opportunity to talk about one more dimension, the human dimension of democracy, i will not introduce all the members of this discussion due to lack of time, but i have to assure you that these are the people best qualified to discuss such a topic, we have one fundamental question, how to protect the fundamental freedom in ukraine, to ensure national

unity. if you look at the last ones ndi survey, for the 23rd year, more than 90% of ukrainians wanted to see ukraine as a fully functioning democracy, this is the highest level in all of europe. when it comes to euro-atlantic integration, 85% of ukrainians wanted to see ukraine become a member of nato and the european union. so these two things, democracy. and euro-atlantic integration is a certain symbol, a symbol that i would compare with the fall of the berlin sea, or the famous strikes in poland in the 1980s, when today, when it comes to european democracy, ukraine is struggling, and we have seen for many years how it might fight, of course, to protect this

symbol and event, we see an insufficient level of solidarity in support of ukraine, in my opinion, so we will talk about two or three things during this discussion, which are fundamentally to protect democracy. we know that this is very important, not only for those who participated and in the context of the victims of the revolution of dignity, but also for... who in general, we will start with the freedom of mass media savgil musaiva ukrainian truth, truth, which is probably the most popular mass media in ukraine, i will be the first to give it the floor, i will probably start with february 24, 2022, the beginning of a full-scale invasion, why is this the starting point for this discussion, because on that day i think all media outlets are independent, they... we understood that now

it is about the survival of the country and it is necessary to take some time out for internal strife to criticize and unite, so in the first days of a full-scale invasion, all efforts were basically aimed at identifying russian assets abroad, and well we did it very successfully actually, because i remember in the early days with... our findings were frozen, for example, the yacht of the russian oligarchs, other other their assets, difficult, their assets, thank you, and of course, this is it was work and it was ours, then, when the tanks moved away from the kyiv region, we realized that corruption as a phenomenon has not disappeared anywhere, and we had a very... discussion in

the editorial office, what are we actually doing about it, i know that the same discussion took place in other editorial offices, as well as in bigusinfo, and sometime in the fall of 2022, this one was removed... for criticism authorities began to publish journalistic investigations and actually expose corruption acts, there, for example, we had the first investigation with schemes about the head of the dnipropetrovsk region, then there were investigations about kirill tymoshenko, then about oleg totarov, and so on. and in principle it also affected, well, you can't call it pressure, but... the attitude towards us, yes, that is, we actually found ourselves in a situation there in december 2023, when these ends became very obvious, and the latest incidents , who are with yuri nikolov, who is with the team

bigusinfo, they talk about the fact that the media today are independent media in the country, they are perceived as enemies, and there are of course a lot of non-public processes, which... i would not like to talk about today, but, well, there is not public pressure, in including the editorial office of ukrainian pravda, and of course it is unpleasant, because in the conditions of a full-scale war you have to think about unity, you already have a lot of challenges, including the safety of your employees, here you also face internal pressure, and how it manifests itself in what it manifests itself in various, these are attempts to discredit, and as we saw it with the example of bigusinfo, attempts to stick some incomprehensible labels of agents of the kremlin and so on and the like, that is, it is still relevant, and media attacks, including those directed at members of our editorial office, well , we basically saw the bigus case, which

also showed the value of independent journalism for this country and the reaction, the healthy reaction of society, that such attempts to discredit them will not be successful. and in fact it is wrong, what i would like to say here, well, first of all, i absolutely understood what journalism, investigations, independent journalism in the conditions of a full-scale invasion, in the conditions of wartime, and martial law, of course, for some reason fulfills the role of a healthy opposition, because the parliament, for example, should be united now, and even people's deputies from opposition factions are now telling us: that you, journalists, investigators, are one of the best oppositions in this country, because the parliament must show unity, the parliament must vote, the parliament must make important decisions and there must still be some moratorium on internal strife, and journalists are

now actually a balance that controls the government, and this is a very important superstructure, a superstructure, and in fact, in the last way, i am constantly faced with questions from diplomats, international partners about the state of freedom of speech in ukraine, and on unfortunately, the signals are very, very frightening, for example, the meeting of the g7 ambassadors, which took place at the end of january last year, says something. we know about censorship attempts, for example, even by the state agency ukrinform. i would like my colleagues here to say for themselves, i don't want to speak for them, but i know that there were definitely such attempts. i... i think that the situation will worsen, and here i would probably like to appeal again to our people 's deputies, who take care of this issue, what are you in it, including, of course, yaroslav yorchyshyn, but yaroslav is always on our broadcasts, where we discuss the state of freedom of speech

and the pressure on journalists, it is possible to do everything, because it is absolutely clear, without a free press, without freedom of speech, we cannot talk about european integration and democratic the future of ukraine. not now, i see a real threat to this, it has been there for a long time in principle, but recently it has directly acquired very threatening shades. iryna gerashchenko, please, iryna, share your opinion as the first deputy speaker of the parliament and the leader of the faction. thank you for the opportunity to participate in this discussion in the opposition, today there is little chance of being invited to any serious discussions. the latest sociological polls, friends, who do not show the ratings there are political, it is correct, because the time of war is not the time

elections, but they show trends and say that security risks are the most important for ukrainians, this is obvious. corruption, it is obvious, i would single out the third risk, which is closely related to security, to corruption, it is the weakness of institutions, which can lead to failures. authorities, when we talk about the parliament today, i believe that the biggest risk for the ukrainian parliament is the loss of subjectivity. it is obvious that war concentrates power, but even war cannot justify the loss of subjectivity parliament and governments. and these are huge challenges facing ukraine. when our colleagues from the servants of the people already begin to speak out loud about the fact that dictatorship can help victories. war, and it becomes simply wild from the fact that russia justifies itself in this way, because

today ukraine can win only as an anti-russia, which is developing as a democratic european country. i don't like when unity and democracy are contrasted. in fact, national unity equals democracy, but it is national unity should not be built on... on pressure, it should be built on common values ​​and principles. at one time , we had a coalition with arseniy petrovich, a difficult coalition, serious discussions, but we were united around principles and values, and that is why this coalition gave the best result, including the association agreement. arseniy petrovych and i were once in opposition, not to each other, but to yanukovych in a very tough opposition, but at this time... the opposition was one of the biggest defenders of the state of ukraine from the outside, when with one voice we

urged our partners, despite yanukovych's regime, to support ukraine, always dividing power and ukraine externally, urging them to support and provide ukraine with an association agreement. in fact, even today, all political forces have an outward consensus that the key challenge for us is security, the key challenge for us is the need to defeat putin, and we are working with international partners to strengthen ukraine, to strengthen sanctions against putin and the anti-putin coalition , and very wildly, when precisely because of authoritarian tendencies within countries, there is a huge threat to inter-parliamentary diplomacy today. the world situation is changing, we see that today the world lives by its elections, whether they are elections in america or in the european union, ukraine recedes into the background... and on the contrary, we must unite around protecting ukraine, but for this we must not be

united by fear, we must be united around principles and values. you know, every day lately , journalists have been asking us if there is a parliamentary crisis, i believe that we definitely have a management crisis, the crisis of the absence of subjectivity, and in order to solve it, it is necessary to recognize this crisis very honestly. i listened with interest to the speech of the honorable lady ... coal, where she talks about the flagrant problems with freedom of speech that did not start today, they started with the throwing of marshmallows by independent channels, and this cannot be explained by martial law, friends, there is a question for we have military censorship, let's decide it, but when military censorship is simply crossed out and political censorship comes to the fore, it is abnormal, the latter is a dictatorship. no tours are taken to the european union and nato. dictatorships do not win wars. therefore, even the word

that a dictatorship can be useful for ukraine must be very strictly suppressed, and we must build democracy and be united as statesmen who are very clearly aware that externally we must be with one voice, but internally countries. i do not agree with sevgil that the opposition should not notice some serious things. so we are working to simply weaken the institutions, and therefore not the effectiveness of the authorities, what are the ways out of this situation and those problems that exist in the country today, and of course we have authoritarian tendencies, there are big problems with freedom of speech, there are problems with the parliament, i would not call it a parliamentary crisis, but it is definitely a management crisis and a crisis within the servant of the people, which can to cover the parliament, it is obvious... the following: the first thing is to recognize the problem. when you honestly recognize the problem, you as a doctor can make a diagnosis and move

to cure it. second, part of the problem today is freedom of speech. it is necessary to return journalists to the parliament. in front of you there is a politician who was in power, in the opposition, was the press secretary of the president, but i always clearly understood that freedom of speech is a part of a successful ukraine. to journalists, as you know, all presidents did not like the parliament. it is true, but today we have the first president who does not communicate with the parliament, it is wrong. given the challenges facing ukraine, this dialogue must be restored, and the president must take the first step here. next, you know, we signed the menet dialogues, this is a very important document that showed the political consensus elites about the impossibility of elections during martial law, but these dialogues and this consensus was broken on the first day by the ruling party, because there are other important things, about freedom of speech, about inter-parliamentary diplomacy, it is necessary to carry out what is accepted, and the last, if today

, no bill in the parliament is accepted by 226 servants of the people, the servants give a maximum of 200 votes, this means that there is no monomajority, and therefore we need to reformat the monomajority and create a coalition of responsibility and on the basis of this to create a government of national unity, i think it will help us become a truly european democracy, fight corruption and go to victory. thank you very much. a minute will answer everyone, ukraine has a very powerful civil society, we have a representative of civil society, olha evazovska , the head of the council, again, it is not so bad, but men will have the opportunity to respond to the theses voiced earlier, i know that i have 5-6 minutes, it is too little to

talk about the state of democracy in ukraine and world and also connect with the system. because it's about how society in a time of war, especially in the third year of a full-scale invasion, is still on the same page of history, and i'd like to start with general trends, literally some numbers and data, i think we'll all it is easier to understand where we are, only 8% of the world's population live in democratic countries, think about it, 8% of people in the world live in a democracy. countries, over the past year the number of authoritarian regimes, or people currently living in countries with an authoritarian regime, has increased by 3%. if talk about the whole world, billions of people, more than 8 billion, this is a colossal number, and we are aware of the negative trend that has occurred over the last year, these are data from the economist, these are

data based on expertise, and not just an attitude towards certain processes , and this is data that has us...cats, because authoritarian regimes, they don't just take power in their countries, they sometimes turn them into totalitarian regimes, which are even more terrifying to restore, because they are based on an ideology, not just worshiping or following someone leader, a certain ideology, and this ideology is often very difficult to abandon, because it cements the regime for the future, i will not talk about communist ideology or nazi, but we understand the difference when there is just a leader, and when the change of leaders does not affect the that there is the variability of the system because it is even more cemented, again the ideology as such, whether it is good or bad for us, it is a very big challenge for us because we are now in the third year of war of a full-scale invasion, more moreover, we demand and need coalitions with

the so-called western world, and its representatives from the point of view of values ​​are becoming fewer and fewer. and if we are in the minority, it means that there must be non-linear actions, in order for creativity, or a certain response to aggression , to be effective. i am often asked now, what do you think about the legitimacy of president zelensky in the perspective after may 2024, or what do you think about the legitimacy after the so-called elections of the russian federation of vladimir putin, the unequivocal thing is that... that vladimir putin seized power and this transit lasted for a very long period of time and there was no election there in the 24th year, no opposition, no other voices, no media, no public, all foreign agents, again the leaders are either in jail or detained , or killed, we are not even close to that, and this is our great

happiness, but again, let's not equate ourselves with these regimes, even in the european union there are countries. which deviate somewhat from the copenhagen principles, which formed the basis of the founding of the european union, already a political framework, not an economic one at the start i am talking about free elections, free media, free work of non-governmental organizations, i am sorry, but hungary itself in certain moments very weakly meets these basic standards, and this is a challenge for the european union itself, because we cannot impose a framework on us, exclusively on ukraine , no... imposing it on the present in those countries that may also experience this negative transit, can we get out of the paradigm of democracy, no, because we will lose the war 100%. no, because if the leaders of the country, or they whether those in power or the opposition still plan to participate in the elections, i have a very simple answer to this: 95% of citizens want to live in

a developed democracy, and 88% believe that this should be part of the road map of eu integration reforms. therefore, i have an appeal to our european partners, give ukraine a chance, without focusing exclusively on corruption, because anti-corruption, i'm sorry, but this is a consequence. bad governance, again, sometimes abuse of power, but this abuse can also go against, again, unfair conditions for obtaining this power in the future. in the 19th fair and free elections were held in ukraine last year, this is a fact. now there is a consensus of society about not holding elections during the war - this is a fact, therefore the answer to the question, the legitimacy of the ukrainian president does not stand, and the constitution clearly gives, again, a retort that... before that, what when we talk about the parliament, and when we talk about the president, article 108, the president exercises his powers legitimately until the election of a new one, period, the discussion around this

issue regarding ukraine, unfortunately, leads to the fact that russia wins in the narratives, because they are trying to impose a completely different framework on ukraine, in which we live. there was a question about this unity, that unification, i really... good numbers for you in 2020, only 35% of citizens believed that our society is united, going to unification, two years before a full-scale invasion, november, october 2023, dannikmiz say that 69% of citizens believe that we have political unity, association in society, and this indicates that in literally three years we have grown twice, this. very much, whether this is a reaction solely to the war, i'm not sure exclusively to the war, it is a reaction to the fact that people understood what is black, white, what is

good, what is evil, and understood in which paradigm, and the paradigm is values ​​and rules, they want to live in the future ukraine, or are there challenges for democracy in ukraine, i conclude, are 100%, because when you live in conditions of temptation, when there is no systemic... the so-called system of checks and balances in the country in the conditions of the legal regime of martial law, it is very scary because someone can decide that he is standing over by law, above the constitution and above the standards of the world in which we want to live, but if such a temptation is realized in practice, this political group, this person, this leader, will not be elected in this country in the post-war or war. the period for which i personally worry now is real, this is what has already been said here, the parliament should play one of the leading roles, because the parliament in the history

of ukraine has demonstrated that in the most terrible moments, even those who were on the other side, they come and make the right decisions, we had a moment when we didn't was the president, we just have to realize that i have had one of the most terrible recent days from the point of view of... feeling and analysis of open information, there were events when a ballistic missile hit 500 m from the motorcade of the president of ukraine and the prime minister of greece, and if there is such a threat, it means that we must have an answer at the systemic level, not just a name, but an understanding that the parliamentary branch of government is capable of exercising all powers, and then there will be no temptation in the russian federation. to target the president's motorcade because there will be no consequence the destruction of ukrainian statehood. and the last thing i will say to the question of whether ukraine is still

a democracy without elections is, you know, why? because even when society does not want to hear, they are forced, because even certain decisions of the verkhovna rada, or a retreat from those plans that were, show that the voice of society is heard, and until the moment when society, i am not talking about non-governmental organizations of experts or specific media will have an impact, until there is democracy in the country, it means that these conditions must be preserved, therefore, unfortunately, we live in a world where there are fewer and fewer people like us, and there will be less, it means that alliances and coalitions must be built for the future, because without them there will be no security, neither in europe nor in the northern hemisphere, because we are talking about nato. copenhagen criteria.

the desire, and therefore the desire of europe and russia, for this they hated ukraine, i want to say that how important it is to emphasize the foundations, the fundamental foundations that are referred to, we are talking about the stability of the institution. strong system of checks and balances, and we have to look at the periods we are in, regardless of which the period we are in, peace time in war, this direction must be... followed, because this

whole process takes place, even during war, we cannot separate them, and it cannot be said that the assessment of the entry process can be modified, depending on circumstances, this is basically what i wanted to say in addition, of course, we can talk about how to guarantee this stability of institutions, their correct functioning. and especially under improper circumstances, it is very important to have a pluralism of opinions and an internal dialogue. i agree that not everyone the member states of the european union are the best examples, but if we look at the average , compare it to the global average , in terms of how to build a stable and ... democracies

that can be shaken, and that may be the last thing i wanted to say, and ready answer questions if you have them. thank you, thank you very much, now only one minute to answer each point. now i want to turn to mykola knyazhytskyi. you know very well how the life of the mass media is now. in ukraine, from i would like to hear your assessment of the russian disinformation campaign, which we are currently seeing, and we are all witnesses to the fact that the lack of social unity and corruption, all this plays into the hands of russian propaganda. what is your assessment of these processes?