these are the baltic states, poland and the nordic countries. poland, because of geographical proximity. in the case of the baltic states, it was 50 years of experience under the totalitarian regime of the soviet union. in poland, it was soviet domination, domination. and although poland had more such free. but the realism of understanding russia helps us not only in the economic influence, but also in understanding the disproportionate influence on the discussions going on around the european parliament. council

putin is counting on the fact that several of his hopes will come true. there will be no event wait, the west is tired. first, secondly, since we are weak, we will not be able to provide ukraine with the means of defeat that would be necessary for victory. and thirdly, what he hopes for and constantly repeats. we , he hopes, will be afraid of escalation, it is these factors, these three ideas that our region will learn to resist the most, we are strong, we are not afraid, we remember what pope john paul ii said, do not be afraid.

personally, it is disappointing to me that over the past two years, since the beginning of the full-scale russian invasion, this dogma regarding escalation, all the time influences and undermines western aid to ukraine. we saw several red lines, first we don't give f16, then we don't give highmarset, then we don't give. kets with a large radius of action, i always try to repeat in my conversations with my western colleagues one thing: after 20 years of putin's rule, we clearly and unequivocally understand that we cannot afford to be weak, we cannot be afraid of his aggression. a few words about our unity. i call it inner

integrity, this inner integrity is difficult to achieve among 27 countries, it is not easy, but if we look at the year 2008 and at the events in georgia, after georgia, everything was said, everything is back on track, as usual, then there was the annexation of crimea, everything was said again, everyone said that this is how it is it was possible and should have been, today we have it. hungary, joined by slovakia, countries that are trying to undermine the project of europe, but i will tell you that history will not be kind to them, another aspect that complicates our position, and not only in europe, it is also about the united states, politicians lacking the courage to look beyond. optics

of their country. it is tragic to see what is happening in the states with the project of 60 billion dollars of aid to ukraine, what do we see as a task? we must be ready for recognition and for the development of our army system, as people say, arm ourselves to the teeth, because we must... be able to stand up to russia, i would even say that those countries that are not even so deeply involved in russian - the ukrainian war, aware that ukraine is fighting and fighting for europe, and poland, and europe, and the scandinavian countries, we leave beyond the limits of the declaration, beyond the limits of words, we want to ensure that all our partners... the eu, in

every council, in every meeting of the european parliament, take a step forward, i have already used up my 5 minutes. then i will add a few sentences, a practical and quite extensive thought, the thought that it takes a lot of time, we need to immediately increase the pace of building up the defense industry, this is a must, we must look at this issue with a long-term strategic perspective and understanding. because we wouldn't be where we are now we found ourselves when ukraine lacks artillery shells, ammunition , in general, i would like to give credit to the president of the czech republic, his team, people who were able to find artillery shells in

the amount of a million shells, as a member of the european union, i give credit to them, other countries. found the appropriate finances to pay for this million projectiles, sometime at the end of may, at the beginning of june, these projectiles and weapons will be in ukraine, i appeal to each country, think creatively, take the initiative in your own hands, look for your own partners, and find the strength to multiply and accelerate the ukrainian victory. thank you. i would now like to turn to anna fatigi, who is hosting, participating online. she represents poland - the country that supports ukraine the most, and in terms of political support

and military support, as a member of the european parliament, she does everything possible. we've seen a few different tracks over the past few months. in poland, for example, there are protests on the ukrainian border protesting against the export of ukrainian grain. my the question for us is how to balance the interests of those who support ukraine, those who want to preserve unity in the face of russian aggression, it is also about baltic politics. countries, and you , as a politician, in one way or another deal with such questions, which will be your formulas and answers, thank you for the question, as far as i understand, like the previous speakers, i will

speak freely about what seems to me to be the most important, i i will try to answer your question later, which seems to be a matter of security and defense. in both areas, i would say that it is not only about the european parliament, i also participated in the work of the nato group on understanding the problems, which worked under the leadership of jen stolderer. the work ended with the documents in madrid, there was only one country whose interests in europe in the eastern european part were taken into account, i say, i would rather talk about the diagnosis

of east-central europe, i hold exactly this point of view, but i feel a little awkward . i'm talking about central and eastern europe, europe, and more than that, when i think about poland's domestic politics. i remember how we were on our own for decades, my region was not represented at such a level, we were sometimes just hitting the wall, just trying to focus on interests. ukraine, other partners, moldova, georgia, so that they get closer to or become part of the work of western structures. what was the real problem? obviously, sometimes

the problems of central and eastern europe were not limited only to them, it was also about western views. why? i want to refer yours attention to the statement of our american colleagues, my american colleague mentioned that the answer to the question? de-stalinization, in fact, remember putin's statement, and how he praised stalin, in fact, praised him and glorified him, as they say, the man who concentrated all the energy of the country, this is politics, politics about. of the entire russian federation, and in fact this philosophy has not

gone anywhere, this is the perception of reality by the russian people, the policy of the russian state, we actually have common interests, our unity, unity was given to us at a high price, with our side specific politicians, entire countries of our region, we know how difficult the unification process was, but this is a perception of the possibility that everything will return to its circle sooner or later in russia, or i would even say that... in russia will not come times of change before she, russia will be our

full counterpart, this position cannot exist, we forget that imperial or neo-imperial or colonial policies still live in russian minds when we talk about de-nationalization. a problem that also affects our region. i would like to say a few things words about hungary. one thing is for certain, i am critical , and as a person, as a politician, regarding the russian policy from hungary, because, in fact, they are not alone, it is very convenient. position, when you are dealing with a partner that is much stronger and bigger,

but everything is equal, we should be afraid and follow duli very carefully this, this balance, about the general policy of a joint effort, we are leading forward, we are pioneers, of aid to ukraine, and therefore, certainly, the topic of grain falls into two elements: first of all, putin's attempt to destabilize the situation globally, not only in ukraine, energy and agricultural markets, these problems arise not only on the polish-ukrainian border. he thinks this is going to be a global problem, i could

talk about this for a long time, but i think we should arm ukraine, we should, we should demand that any american administration, no matter who it is headed by spend more on our collective defense, in which case poland is actually the champion because we spend 4% gdp on defense, and we want to spend even more, when it comes to strengthening the european defense industry, we remember that... this should be done taking into account, i would say, the interests of all participants, when

it comes to political issues, and i would say, the position of specific countries in relation to russia, the germans from the beginning of the full-scale war, not very enthusiastically supported ukraine. to provide it with weapons, we saw how 17 million euros were promised for production. hungary, which is so criticized, received 23 million because of the work there rhine metal, and poland - 2 million, and poland, as a certain hub of western support provided to ukraine, of course, needs

to increase production, precisely because of its proximity. to the border, i'm just bringing this to you as food for thought, for those who talk about the need for deeper integration in the field of security and defense, as i said, the collective action made a mistake in assessing the russian threat, i know this because i. .. started this issue also for decades, so when we speak, we have to be very careful when it comes to further european integration into the european union in this particular region, i would say that i would not want the safety of my

grandchildren... to be given to the ransom of those who miscalculated in this way, here since they are the ones who play the leading role, thank you for your speech, we are a little pressed for time, so we must continue, if you allow, vitaly portnikov, i want to give you the floor, i would like to quote the prime minister. latvia in one of his speeches, he said that now nato countries are training ukrainian military, but it will be soon on the contrary, ukrainians will train nato soldiers, that is, the roles are changing here, and what i would like to hear from mr. portnikov is how you see the role of ukraine in the next few years in

eastern europe. thank you, thank you for this question. i think that we should realize, and in principle, the key role of ukraine in this war and in this situation in general, that we are dealing with an unusual war, not just a territorial conflict, not just a conflict regarding the future of a certain state . .. in central europe, we are dealing with conflict, the result of which will depend on the appearance of the world in the coming decade, we must be clearly aware that the defeat of the soviet union in the cold war,

by and large, created. for the so-called monopolar world, that is, the world where democracies defend their priorities and offer others to join these priorities, and by the way, this was not always the case, the defeat of the united states in vietnam, the disappearance of the republic of south vietnam, which the united states promised protect and led to the true bipolar world in which we live all lived a world in which the soviet union extended its influence not only to europe, but also to africa, but also to latin america, to other continents, and in which there was little room for democracy. if ukraine can survive, and international law is restored and strengthened, we can

stay with you in this conditional monopolar world, the world. where democracies will continue to assert their primacy and the rest of the world will emulate democracy. if the conflict drags on for years, weakens and exhausts the west, weaken and exhaust russia, then there will be all the conditions for the emergence of a bipolar world, where the united states and the people's republic of china will actually divide between themselves spheres of influence from... according to their capabilities, if ukraine loses, its statehood will be destroyed, and international law will finally will become a thing of the past. you and i will find ourselves in the multipolar world that vladimir putin dreams of. it will be a world in which the united states and the people's republic of china share spheres of influence in

the pacific region, and russia becomes the political hegemon of europe, even without any war, but because european societies will be frightened by its triumph and the helplessness of the west. for us, for the countries. eastern and central europe, the baltics, there are no guarantees that we will remain on the side of democracy, if russia and china will strengthen and win, we do not know where the border of the world of democracy will pass in this case, that is the main problem, because we can to deal not even with russia's aggression against. poland or the baltic countries, and we can deal with disorganized societies in of these countries, the voters of these countries themselves

, without russian tanks, will bring to power those who will agree with moscow, well, not in every country, but in many, and we should already see it in hungary, in slovakia, we know what the mood is in the republic moldova. this list can be continued. therefore , in fact, it seems to me that right now it is in our region that politicians should become statesmen. you and i are discussing absolutely some specific political problems. what will happen to poland's agriculture? how to do it to help ukraine. and go to a meeting polish farmers and not lose the election. you can win the elections and lose poland. this is absolutely real, because if russia comes

to the borders in poland, then those politicians who today are competing for power in poland, both donald tusk and jarosław kaczyński, will turn into political fringes, and the whole polish project of solidarity will give way to the polish project of the confederation. so what will happen. the same marginal forces will be strengthened in other countries of central europe, in ukraine itself, we can also see the triumph of those who say that we need to negotiate with russia, therefore that the united states is worthless, and europe itself wants to negotiate with putin. this is an absolutely real development, and i am not saying that it will be disappointing for our peoples. he will be disappointing for you and me, there will be no one left on this panel, and no one will be left in this hall, completely

different people will be sitting here, and he will hold a discussion in russian, this must also be realized in many capitals of our region, in kyiv, riga, chisinau and warsaw, if we want that, we can just follow the events and think how to us you... political dividends, how to help us so that nothing changes, if we are able to sacrifice our political interests, for the sake of national salvation, then we can win, but we must realize what this game is and what its level is, and indeed now all this, all this conditional stability of ours is holding us back. it is the ukrainian soldiers, it is the ukrainian armed forces that give us the opportunity to discuss options, if they stop, we will have no options, we

will go absolutely concretely to the world from which we came out with such difficulties at the end of the 80s, at the beginning of the 90s of the last century, and i would really hate for you and i to find ourselves in it again. thank you. thank you, i will now give the floor to slavamir syrkovsky. we heard about how eastern europe is mobilizing in support of ukraine, investing in defense. and that now the center of gravity is in this support. can move from the baltic countries to the east, do you see such a trend, this is the first question, and the second,

how and... polish colleagues, maybe you would share your view on what is happening in poland with farmers, like here the right balance can be found to solve the problem, not at the expense of aid to ukraine. for me, as a pole, this issue is very painful , what is happening at the border, the whole issue is about farmers, i know it is not, it is not easy to explain, but it can be explained, i am not saying that i am... supported, i am very is pro-ukrainian, not since yesterday, and from the very beginning, just like mars, since we have actually been cooperating with ukraine for 20 years, we were on the maidan, and before that, we also participated in protests in belarus, in general we we are involved in this to this region, because we think it is very important, and

this region in particular... needs a lot of support, as well as moldova, in armenia, what is happening in armenia in yerevan is extremely important today day. moldova, as well as georgia. so this region, i must emphasize, is quite specific. sigmund freud would probably say it's the narcissism of minor differences, would call it that. well , let's be realistic, this is the least integrated region of europe, much less than germany with france or, spain, france, germany, it is very difficult to do something together in this region, as you know, the visegrad group of four, actually , the hands are not functional, since these four countries were. community of faith and they have many

common problems, but apart from the name, nothing practical has happened in this organization. second, why is this region so disintegrated? one of the intellectuals of eastern europe once said that victims have iron hearts. of course, when we get out of poverty, we can't see any romance in it, it's certainly very painful, and that's not why we understand victims better, because we ourselves were a victim in the past, but probably on the contrary, it's a certain way you know, as it emerges and is

rather dictated by some kind of envy. or jealousy than empathy, returning to the issue with farmers, closer to your thesis, what we have now is probably the most pro-ukrainian government in poland than ever before, not only in poland, but in europe in general. donald tusk was the first politician in the world who spoke in ukrainian in the verkhovna rada, the parliament of ukraine. he was the first politician who president zelenskyi visited the front line. this is not a politician who somehow changed his position at the same time. and i can also say the same about radik sikorsky, not only because i know him as a great intellectual, i know him simply as a person, as love. i know the cuisine of polish politics. and here the choice is quite

simple. see it from this point of view, if the choice is to act as the government is doing today, which is to be quiet and sympathetic to the position of the farmers, and to go ahead with this issue and not to lose the election to the populists. we have two elections in front of us, two elections, and here it is a matter of choosing, either lose the election or somehow have problems at the border, because the populists do not want change, they are more pro-farmer than before.