increasingly closer, more compatible, more coordinated. together, we are doing everything for ukraine to become a member of our alliance. the swedish flag will not be the only yellow-blue flag near the nato headquarters apartment. mr. general, very briefly, do you agree? rob bauer's optimism about ukraine becoming a member of the north atlantic alliance, well, as i understand it, when he says that there is no need to look pessimistically at it and that he looks optimistically at it, are you an optimist or a pessimist in this matter? yes, of course, i really wanted to, yes prospects for 33 beautiful numbers, in my opinion, ukraine itself will become a member of the alliance, that is, if the countries... are part of the alliance,

first of all, the americans will energetically move from the political statements that they have there, i would say, to concrete actions regarding the provision of aid already now, that is, in your opinion, we can and we have a chance to receive an invitation to the north atlantic alliance at the anniversary summit of nato, yes, the struggle is going on so that the washington summit is in shape. on this invitation, but it is not dependent on it, even more, we need not just a political statement, and i say it again, we need weapons, equipment, ammunition, everything is always more important, but the strategy must be kept and we must fight for it, that's for sure. well, let's hope, mr. general, that everything will be like that, thank you for the conversation, it was ihor romanenko, the founder of the charity fund "close the sky of ukraine", retired lieutenant general. former deputy chief

of the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine. friends, we continue our broadcast live on the tv channel, as well as on youtube and facebook. for those who are currently watching us live on youtube and facebook, take part in our vote. today we ask you about whether the peace summit in switzerland will bring the end of the war in ukraine closer. yeah, no , it's pretty simple on youtube, and we can click either yes or... write your comment if you have any thoughts about it, and if you're watching us on tv, pick up your expensive smartphone or phone and vote if you think the peace summit in switzerland will bring an end to the war in ukraine, 0800-211381, no 0800-211-382. all calls to these numbers are free, please call, it is important for us to know your opinion. next, we have tetyana vysotska, a correspondent, in contact.

espresso in brussels. tatyana, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. i greet serhiy, i greet you from brussels, the european council. so, today the leaders of the european union in brussels are discussing many issues, including aid to ukraine, and in particular the issue of the possible freezing of assets, or rather, the confiscation of assets of the russian federation in europe and their transfer. in ukraine in order for it to fight against the russian federation, are there already any statements and results of this summit, has anyone already spoken about whether there is such a decision or not, whether there will be such a decision or not? so, the summit started with some delay, because first the leaders had lunch with the un secretary general, then they had a long talk with the president of the european parliament, roberta mazzola, and somewhere around. that is why the summit

started, the president of ukraine zelensky addressed the eu leaders, who also, by the way, asked to speed up the resolution of the issue transfer to ukraine, if not confiscated russian art, then at least the revenues from them, which, as we know, amount to an average of 3 billion euros per year, and therefore the leaders began to discuss the ukrainian issue, security and defense issues, but still no decision not accepted , discussion: we went behind closed doors, and now we only know that the leaders moved on to dinner, after dinner the conversation about ukraine will continue, but in the meantime, while the readers were sitting behind closed doors, diplomats of various countries periodically came out from behind these doors countries, as well as european officials who spoke to journalists, and now we can say more or less the following about the frozen assets, that among the leaders of the european union... there is a consensus

that the profits from the frozen assets of the european union can be used for the benefit of ukraine, not even against hungary, but... the question is how exactly to use these profits, because in the document submitted by the european commission to the european council for the consideration of india in the eu, it is planned that 90% of the revenues from the frozen russian assets should go to the european peace fund, which will purchase weapons and ammunition for ukraine, and 10% should go to the budget of the european union in order to provide ukraine with... with hungary, and also neutral countries such as austria, ireland, malta, they are against the russian money being used for the purchase of weapons and insist

that it go only to the reconstruction and humanitarian needs of ukraine, but just recently german diplomat and he spoke for a long time about the discussion of the leaders and he said that there is actually no point in using these assets at all, if you do not buy, do not buy from them what ukraine needs first of all, and ukraine first of all needs weapons, that is, here for now , the discussion has stalled precisely on this, and it is quite possible that in the final document , russian assets will be mentioned in passing, only as a phrase that, for example, the leaders of the european union, recognize as a good idea of ​​the european commission or, as they say there, approve the idea of ​​the european commission regarding the use of frozen profits, frozen assets of the russian federation for the benefit of ukraine, without detailing, and offer the ministers of foreign affairs of the european union states

to continue the discussion on this matter, we can expect something similar in the final document, but unfortunately, no more today , that it is interesting that, for example, olaf scholze... a factor in germany, who was always famous for being very careful in all his statements regarding russia, today stated that it was precisely on the profits from frozen russian funds weapons should be purchased for ukraine. he emphasized that this money does not belong to anyone, for example, the same chancellor of austria , on the contrary, said that it will not be missed for his country. this is the situation with the frozen funds so far, and interestingly, hungary also says that if... these funds are directed to humanitarian needs, she will not mind, that's such an interesting thing. thank you, tatyana, we will wait for the results of the eu summit, tomorrow will be a day, and we will follow it, it was tatyana vysotska from brussels, who is monitoring the progress of the summit

leaders of the eu countries. friends, we are working live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, conducting surveys, we are asking you today. such as, will the peace summit in switzerland bring the world closer, the end of the war in ukraine, yes, no, everything is quite simple in youtube, if you are sitting in front of the tv, take your smartphone, phone and vote if you think the summit in switzerland will bring the end war in ukraine, 0800-211-381, no, 0800-211-382, all calls to these numbers are free, vote, we will summarize the results of this vote at the end of the program. next , ihor reiterovych, political scientist, head of political and legal programs of the ukrainian center for social development, will be in touch with us. mr. igor, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. good evening. mr. igor, let's start our conversation with a statement from jake sullivan, the political adviser

to the president, or rather, the national security adviser to the president of the united states of america, who outlined his vision for victory. in the war, being in kyiv, let's hear what he is said: from the rostrum of the white house and from other rostrums, i said that ukraine should win. today i say here, ukraine must win. what does it mean? this means that ukraine, after this war, will be sovereign, independent and free, able to restrain future aggression, with a strong living democracy, with deep democratic institutions, with a developing economy. over the past few days, the americans have made several such statements. jake sullivan said that ukraine should win. lloydin, who performed on rammstein 20, declared that ukraine, ukraine will not be allowed, will not be allowed to be defeated. and why

does washington not say that russia must suffer this defeat, or that ukraine must defeat russia, or russia must be without. either russia should be in some other form, or russia should be demilitarized, denuclearized, well, in such a state that it does not threaten anyone, why in rhetoric. official washington is so reserved, i think there is one simple reason, well there are actually many, but there is one key one, and that is that washington has today there is no clear understanding of this victory over russia, what is a victory for them and what to do with the defeated russian federation, they have this fear, it is largely existential, you know, that is, they cannot find any reasons for it there is an explanation of what will happen to a huge country that has the largest nuclear potential in the world, will it not lead

to some, well, negative consequences that the united states of america will no longer be able to control in any way, so they say no as much about the defeat about russia 's defeat as they say about the necessity of ukraine's victory, yes, but you can actually put a lot of things into the victory of ukraine, and even mr. sullivan's statement, well , it caused one such warning: if you listen to it all, he talked about victory , democracy, the economy and so on, but there was no mention, for example, of the internationally recognized borders of ukraine, and you know, i am far from having any theory about the language, but i perfectly understand that such things are very detailed there are being prepared by representatives of the white house administration, and when such statements are made, they are very verified, that is, they have an approximate outline of the victory of ukraine, well, it is at least to hold all those territories that... we now control, to develop the economy, to preserve democratic institutions, to strengthen national security and defense, and many

other such things, to return there, maybe part, and maybe all the territories, yes, but they are very careful about it, but they will not talk about the defeat of russia now, because they believe that this will trigger russia and, you know, provoke some inappropriate actions, including those related to nuclear weapons, and b, they simply do not have this plan, they are afraid to talk about these things . because i believe that this problem, well , it is so insurmountable, and it will be impossible to decide in practice what to do with a disintegrated russia, what this disintegration should be, and in general, what path should be taken, and you see, there is another problem in that experiences such as disintegration of the soviet union, it will not work in the situation that has developed now on the territory of the russian federation and will develop, for example, in the future, and therefore they do not even have the opportunity to compare it with anything, and from this some such plans. to build , to justify them, only one thing can be said: there is no such plan not only in the united states

of america, i am afraid that there is no such plan, well , practically all other countries that are currently partners of ukraine, that is, they are not thinking so much about defeat , disintegration there, disintegration, denuclearization, de-nazification of russia, how many are thinking simply about how to help ukraine to survive and survive in this war against russia. but what jake sullivan didn't talk about was the border. and that ukraine should return to the borders of 1991, does this mean that washington admits that peace with russia in some form of ukraine and russia is possible, including on the condition that russia will control part of the ukrainian territory? i think that's the way it is, and look, there's no cheating, we just have to understand one simple thing: countries that are even our partners, they consider different. scenarios, they have at least three scenarios on the table, an optimal one,

a pessimistic one, and one, you know, more or less, for example, realistic, and at least one of these scenarios, and maybe even more than one, does not involve going to the borders of 1991, just an important clarification, as of today, the scenario that ukraine is promoting, the ukrainian peace formula, the return to the borders and so on, it is at the top of this stack of scenarios. but it may be that he will be lower, or will be at the end altogether. we must understand this, and do everything, of course, so that this scenario is on the mountain. but the fact that they are considering different options is no secret to anyone. just look even at the activities of analytical centers in the united states or in some european countries, they produce almost every month certain scenario forecasts, which primarily concern the russian-ukrainian war, and they paint different things there. scenarios, there are a lot for us favorable, and there are those that, well

, we cannot consider under any circumstances, but they come from the data that they have, from the mechanics, well, the methods that they use to prepare these scenarios, and they fall to a certain extent to the authorities, and the authorities process them, take them into account somewhere , postpone them somewhere, and some ask, for example, to paint and lay them out in more detail there, well , i will say even more, we should also deal with these things and have... a few spare options just in case, not in the plan that we must promote them, no, we must have one and the one that is, it is absolutely correct, it must be key, but just in case of the development of events there. for example, in a context that is not very positive for us, we should have some backup options, and these options should be offered by ukraine itself, so that we are not then shown some scenario and told that we will move according to it, if you don't want to, then you are on your own , and that we, in principle, be the initiators of the implementation of certain initiatives. over the past few days, we have witnessed the activation of beijing and delhi, or zero in the issue,

in the ukrainian issue. the politician wrote that xijin pin is going to visit emmanuel macron in may, officially it is the 60th anniversary of china's diplomatic relations with france, and there, among other things, xijin pin is going to talk to macron about peace in ukraine, about the peace issue. in parallel with this , we see how the prime minister of india on randramodi. first called putin, congratulated him on his victory in the elections, the so-called elections, and then called zelensky, and so as reported by the office of the president of ukraine , what modi said, he conveyed his consistent support for all efforts to establish peace and end

the ongoing conflict as soon as possible, that is, we see those leaders of those countries who are quite actively communicating with... with putin, and who are already being transported as diplomats, vip diplomats, or as parties who are interested in russia somehow getting out of the war in this situation, or getting out on some of its own terms, to what extent do you think china and india can influence other world leaders in this matter, and whether or not it is possible to promote at all. those narratives that putin is pushing through the leaders of india and china? well, look, it seems to me that after all, india, china, they are trying to promote their narrative, yes, it coincides to some extent with the narratives of russia, but they proceed primarily from their national interests. it turns out that their national interest now is, on the one hand, a weakened russia, but on the other hand, still the end of the war, which

will allow them to exploit the same russian federation even more actively, to solve some i still have my own. question, but they will, of course, try to somehow promote these peace initiatives there, more actively china, because china wants, well, if in the future to participate in the regulation of the russian-ukrainian war, then it wants to have such a position there , which will allow it to claim the status of a geopolitical center of influence. india, she's a little more detached from this story, and i think she might even choose an option. which will be offered there, which is more or less will arrange it, that is , it will join some initiative that will already have, well, a certain practical implementation, well, let's say , let's imagine that this peace conference is implemented, everyone there supports the ukrainian peace formula and says that we will implement this history, it is key there and so on, well, it is not excluded that india will join this, well, it will not, of course

, introduce sanctions against russia there, but at least in words it supports this idea, china will certainly be more aloof here... keep, therefore what we are observing now, these visits of chinese diplomats, the statements they make, this is, you know, such and such a survey, monitoring of the situation in general, they assess the readiness and unreadiness of the parties for certain negotiations and look for a place in these negotiations for china, the only thing, i am convinced that the second time china will not allow itself a false start, as with this chinese peace plan, which in principle ended badly, they announced it, everyone attacked it and they pretended that nothing like this happened , now they will keep this pause as much as possible and they will only join certain initiatives when they can insert something of their own there, that what they can call a unique chinese offer, it will not necessarily be the whole plan, it can be some part of the plan, but necessarily with the indication that it is the authorship of china, but they

will agree to such an option, and you know, there is a certain danger here, because, well, the same sinzimpinya has certain... the cops are economic in order to push, or at least try to influence the same european union or some other countries there, but on the other hand , it can be a very big influence for us, well , according to rumors, chinese diplomats have now conveyed the need to invite russia to the negotiations, when the peace formula will be discussed, and that if russia is not invited, then they will not participate in this, well, china will not participate, so you can beat them, as they say, with their weapons, russia can be invited there to... that forum, if it is take place according to the ukrainian peace formula, which is supported there several dozen countries, and not only the countries of the west, but also those that relatively recently joined it, but which are not... there are some partners of the russian federation that categorically oppose what it is doing, and then china will find itself in such a dilemma, on the one hand, they wanted russia to be invited, russia

was invited, but russia will refuse, we even remember the statement of this zakharova, yes, who said that the peace formula offered by ukraine , this is the formula for the capitulation of russia, well , they can call it whatever they want, but if this formula will be supported by a large number of countries, and the leaders of these countries will agree to come to this summit, then... you can even try to invite putin, knowing full well that he will not come there and will not send a delegation, and this will then be an argument for the same china , look, they are not willing to negotiate , there is no point in communicating with them, we fulfilled your request to a certain extent to invite to the russian federation, but they themselves do not want to participate in these negotiations and do not want to end the war, so there is enough here wide space for maneuver, well , we must use it, use it, including... establishing some relations with the same people's republic of china, we currently, unfortunately, still have a big problem, our diplomatic department is practically not working, so that no one there communicates with

our diplomats, and some statements by representatives of our authorities are of a, you know, semi-offensive nature, well, this is a wrong story, we should try to find a common language somewhere with china, offer some certain things, well, so that he at least takes a neutral position, and does not start openly playing along. to the russian federation, dmytro kulebash has already said that china can play a significant role in ending this war, in ending the war, or rather he said, in an interview with lastamp, he said, and we will actually watch one more short video, this is the pope francis, who during his speech in st. peter's square in the vatican, once again called for an end to the wars in ukraine and the middle east, and for peace negotiations. let's hear what he is said let us never forget that war is always a defeat.

the war cannot be continued. we must make every effort to negotiate an end to the war. let's pray for it. mr. igor, the pope says that let's pray, let's negotiate. but the pope avoids. appeals to the party that is the aggressor, well, in the war in the middle east, and accordingly in ukraine. why does the pope not speak of an aggressor as a pro-aggressor? well, he does not talk about russia as a pro-aggressor from one banal cynical point of view reasons these are the results of the so-called havana declaration, when they shared spheres of influence with the russian orthodox church, and ukraine was then included in the sphere of influence of the russian orthodox church. church, i think that he remembers this very well, and that is why he does not call russia, i don't know, there, you know, a satanic country, although in principle many other religious

figures do this, who openly point to it, he doesn't mention the aggression of the russian federation, he talks about the war in ukraine, he doesn't about the russian-ukrainian war, for example, yes, and he is trying to get everyone there to sit down at the transition table, because this is the implementation of previous agreements that were made then. with kirill, i think that this is perfectly understood by some part of the administrative corps of the vatican, i.e. those people who also make decisions there, who are around the pope, but they are not yet able to remove him from his post or indicate to the fact that his position has nothing to do with the position of the vatican, perhaps they also share this thesis and do not want to simply interfere in this history, recognizing the right of the russian federation there, since they had some agreements, some of which are not... public, although even those that were public, they were indicative back in the 16th year, by and large they are not have lost their relevance even today. thank you, mr. igor, for the conversation, it was igor reiterovich,

a political expert. friends, we are working live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, and we are finalizing the survey that we are conducting both on youtube and on tv. this poll sounds yes: will the peace summit in switzerland bring the end of the war in ukraine closer. we see the final results of the television poll 28% yes , 72% no, these are the results of the television poll, we also have a vote on youtube, 31% yes, the peace summit will bring the end of the war in ukraine closer 69%, no. that's it , friends, i'm putting an end to it, it was the program verdict privi serhii ordenko, read our news. also on espresso tv website we work for you 7 days a week 24 hours a day, goodbye.

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