the sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together. every week, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts. based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events, want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. verdict with serhiy rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format, even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad. about ukraine, the world,

the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion at any time of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhii rudenko, every weekday from 20 to 22 at espresso. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together. well, i'm quoting ivan fedorov, the mayor of zaporizhzhia. an eight-year-old girl was killed as a result of a russian strike on zaporizhzhia, and a 35-year-old man, daughter and father were killed in the strike of a russian missile on the private sector of zaporizhzhia, a morning enemy attack cut short the life of a 62nd man, the driver of a trolley bus that

was moving along the dam of the hydroelectric power station. there were no passengers in the vehicle. now we will talk about the situation in the energy sector, in particular about the risky and threatening scenarios that are looming. yurii proden is in touch with us, the minister of energy and coal industry in 2007-10, as well as in 2014. glory to ukraine, mr. yury, congratulations. glory to the heroes, i congratulate you. well, the key story. why would i wanted to start with your opinion, i.e. what was the criminal logic of the enemy when they hit certain energy facilities in ukraine, we understand that a large part of the information is under the seal, so to speak, of secrecy, well, due to one or another reasons , but we can talk about the enemy's logic, that is, they wanted to completely cut off our energy system a year ago, i don't know how, or something else, or it's just a possibility. the beginning, it seems to me, unfortunately,

eh, that it is still possible, this is probably the beginning, eh, and here, here there can be two reasons, why did they start, uh, it was at the end of the autumn-winter period to do this , maybe they had accumulated enough missiles to carry out their plans to attack energy, well, they ... probably know that it has decreased today the aid to ukraine and the insufficient amount of our missiles to repel and other means to shoot down their missiles, so their logic will most likely during this period be to... reduce our industrial potential and

also defense potential in defense construction, most likely. mr. yury , let's talk in more detail about the dniprovska hes, which today suffered significant destruction as a result of the rashi strikes, eight rockets flew at this strategic and important object, we understand that there is some destruction, but not critical, that is, the dam survived, but, as reported in ukrhydroenergo... and there were two direct hits to the hes-1 and hes-2 power plants, the second one is in critical condition, how will this affect our energy industry as a whole? well look regarding today's strike from the point of view of the impact on energy, we really lost quite a significant amount of generation today, and not only at the dniester hydro-accumulating station, at the dnipro hydro-accumulating station, at the dnipro hydro-accumulating station. a significant amount

, but it is not critical, because now the consumption has already decreased, and there is an opportunity today to compensate for this... lost, temporarily, i hope, lost generating capacity through imports, if we say what is happening, what happened there, there is damaged, he spoke quite seriously today, the general director of ukrhydroenergo, the second hydroelectric power station 2 is quite seriously damaged, it has just arrived somewhere and is producing a little more than half of its capacity. everything, what is the whole of dniproges, and this power is quite so serious, this power is approaching the power of a nuclear unit, if it is lost for a long time, and this is a maneuverable power, a deficit, we

have a deficit of power, then this is a rather serious problem already it seems to me, for the next autumn-winter period, well, on the leg and on the adjustment that may be... power regulation, which will be carried out in ukraine. mr. yurii, accordingly, we would like to ask you about the current situation in our power system. yes, you rightly noted that the enemy struck in the spring, that is, not during the winter heating season, so we understand that this could have much more painful consequences, but rather, they can really begin to systematically work on our energy resources again, so as i said, for us this blow, this loss of power, it is quite significant, quite significant, i said, i hope temporary loss of power, quite significant , but not critical, but for today,

for today, it seems more serious to me, the problem is that there was also a blow to the infrastructure, to our networks, to the networks of non-kukrenergo, and... and all those things that are happening today in the regions, they are most likely related to the fact that we cannot deliver the necessary generating power to all regions due to damage to the grids, and this is a rather serious problem, and i would say that at the moment it is necessary to check the effectiveness of those measures, which we carried out, you remember, you remember that... the ministry of infrastructure and nekrenergo, they had to build quite a serious defense, and they talked about it, that they were building physical, physical defense, damage, and today there are also significant funds used, today it is necessary

to check how effective, let's say, this model was chosen for protection, and how much it can be applied and continue for the next autumn winter. mr. yuri, but we also heard a lot of plans at one time regarding the attraction of additional capacities of this or that, in particular from the european union or the american continent, when we talk about transformer substations and so on, we understand that they should have been ordered then so that they had a chance to reach us now, you don't know how this important state order is being executed, i think that after all these certain, certain... volumes of equipment for restoration, it, it, it, it comes, of course, no, not in those, no, not in that quantity and not in the terms that we desperately need, and we may not even physically be able to restore everything, everything that was damaged in that

autumn, in that autumn-winter period, well, unfortunately, i do not have complete information, it is the fastest and should not, let’s say so, be voiced or to spread this information, well, as far as i know, such and such works are being carried out, and perhaps the russian enemy already has certain plans so that we are not far-sighted, let's say plans so that we, so that we will not be able to prepare for the next autumn, autumn -winter period, but you you know, the enemy is insidious, what , what is in his head, what might happen to him tomorrow, we don't know, they say... they say that even now, perhaps, some mass media will be preparing, they announce that they are preparing again, maybe some strikes, whether for tonight or tonight, unfortunately, mr. yuriy, and if we are talking about the restoration of the dnipro hydroelectric power station, if so,

well, we understand that you do not have all the information, yes, but if speaking from the point of view of an expert, how long can it take the process of restoring such an object, how long can it take? you know , you know, to be clear, and here it is possible to make a mistake in terms, you have to go there, there, there, everything was on fire, you have to go, as far as i know, that... the head of ukrhydron said that these damages extremely serious from the point of view of not not the cascade, not from the point of view of the hydroelectric dam, but from the point of view of generation, and said that it will be very, very difficult to restore it, although, although everything has to be seen and evaluated, it already takes some time for to pass this, so far, so far the information, i think, is not in the hydropower itself to estimate. this information to estimate how long it will take to restore this damaged object? and

about the use of blackouts, i would like to clarify with you, if we are talking about the long-term restoration of this particular object and we understand that the networks are significantly damaged, is there now a prerequisite to believe that if the enemy continues to attack our energy infrastructure, we it will still be necessary to implement some shutdown schedules. well , of course, such schedules are now happening in the regions, which are currently carried out according to the schedule in the regions, but in ukraine as a whole, such schedules are not carried out, because there is an opportunity to compensate for that energizing power, but if the blows continue and, let's say, there will be a loss, a significant loss even greater, even more larger volumes of generating capacity, then... there is only one regulation here, it is regulation at the expense of consumers,

disconnection of the population and industrial consumers according to the disconnection schedules, we do not have another, other method of regulation, others we don't have any opportunities today. mr. yury, we would like to ask you more about geography, well, conditionally speaking, we understand that in certain regions of our homeland, the enemy can attack in a more concentrated way, but we understand that he is asking... not only the amount, well, conditionally speaking, of the amount of electricity , but also those capacities that supply it, but in any case, in general, the energy system is ukrainian, that is, it works for all regions without any exception, and here the key story that could have an impact is the destruction by the enemy these transport substations and power transmissions, yes, i already said that, i already spoke about the fact that the enemy... we cannot, we cannot, the power that we will

have, for example, from imports, imports from western europe, yes , from europe, we, we will not be able to physically transmit it already to the east, because we will not have, no, there will not be such an opportunity, because the networks, these networks were already tickled last year, if they continue for now to be carried out by... damage to these merests, of course we, we will not be able to deliver this one power to this, this, this power that we will have, or from, or from europe, or from our stations located in the west, to transfer to the east or to the center or to the south or to the south of ukraine, that is why i have already said , what, what, what, what we had to, we already talked about the fact that a significant amount of work. and mine, the ministry of infrastructure and nek-ukrenergo fulfilled it, we need

to see now if it is possible that we did not complete the work there and did not do everything as necessary, but maybe, well, how effective it is, we, we, we, we will say, in the fortification and protection of these objects was carried out, thank you, mr. yuriy, by yuriy prodan, minister of energy and coal industry from 2007 to 10. in 2014, i was in eterispress , they talked about our energy sector after the combined attack of the russians, now we will go on a short break and after it we will have a slightly different topic for discussion, we will talk about our information space, about the initiative of people's deputy mykola knyazhytskyi to regulate certain social network, does this draft law even have a chance for life, do the deputies support it, and the principle needs him, we will communicate with the media woman. hetectorme natalia legachova literally in a matter of minutes, so don't switch. laughter, physical activity,

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discounts on karsil of 15% in psyllanyk, pam and oskad pharmacies. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together. events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives. of course, the news feed reports on them. however, it was not enough to know what was happening. it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskii and invited experts soberly assess the events, analyze them, modeling our future. every saturday at 1:10 p.m. with a repeat at 10:00 p.m. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. we, the security service of ukraine, are fighting to protect

every ukrainian and to repay the enemy for all the crimes and lives taken. every day we hit the invaders in the most painful places, we sink the russian fleet and burn military facilities, we destroy thousands of invaders and their equipment at the front, we eliminate war criminals, arrest agents and traitors, and our blows will be even stronger until the time of victory, the sbu, the enemy. doomed, retribution is inevitable. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together. well. ukraine is recovering from

a massive missile attack, today five people died, more than 25 people were injured, the khmelnytskyi regional military administration reported that as a result of the russian attack on the city , five people were injured and two were killed. yes, and tragic news from chernihiv oblast, yes, it is said that the enemy de facto killed a person by hitting a minibus, the drone is dead and injured. gave, so in the afternoon an enemy drone hit a civilian minibus, three people were injured, a 57-year-old man from the village of zmiivka was killed, and i'm sorry, i was talking about kherson oblast, and about chernihiv oblast, today around 1:40 p.m. in the novosivers district, an enemy drone hit in the minibus by civilians and three people were injured, so what are we going

to add to our team nataliya ligachova, the head of ge with a detector. media chief-editor of the media detector portal, mrs. natalya, we are glad to see you, welcome to our airwaves, i congratulate you, let's talk about the initiative of people's deputy mykola knyazhytsky regarding the telegram, so we have already talked about the current situation with the telegram, even with you, so many times in the conversation , that this social network is not regulated by anyone, no one follows it, and actually a lot of fakes and false information is spread there, but on the other hand , we understand that there is such a thing as freedom. words, as you think, or regulation in general of social networks in ukraine will not lead to a certain limitation of this freedom of speech, well , regulation of... ordinary classic media and even online media, which already exists in ukraine, the law on media has introduced regulation in relation to online as well, and there is a distinction that what

is media, what is journalism, i.e. blogs, for bloggers, for example, there is the law on media, where there is article 36, it introduces some regulatory important things, but does not relate to them. as before journalism, therefore, of course, social networks must be regulated by the state, and this is a challenge now for the whole world, now all over the world they are thinking about how to do it, but there is such an uncontrolled existence like ours, well, it seems to me that there is not even anywhere, maybe, well maybe, well at least in the western world , er, and this applies first of all definitely to telegram, as a russian, unfortunately, messenger. well, on the other hand, you know, ms. natalya, they write like this on the internet, i am quoting

leonid danylovich kuchma's conversation with derkach. remember, a quarter of a century has already passed, that is, to regulate unregulated is very difficult, because it is to some extent an element, and if we talk about specifics, maybe there are some power mechanisms, right? this is one moment, and the second moment is a kind of logic, because very often someone may not like something, the next government may like it, and so on, and so on, well, we experience this matter in our, so to speak, journalistic skins, well, i didn’t like it, they disconnected from the t2 network, and here everything should work correctly, honestly, and so on, because telegram, well, he, he conquered a large part of the ukrainian audience, do we like it? whether you don't like it, then, accordingly, how to do it competently, really, well, you understand that there is no unequivocal answer here, mr. mykola knyazhytskyi, he

suggested first of all that state institutions should not use telegram, that is, not to open professional accounts, this is one way and he possible, but then i think to myself, we will remain in telegram, in general only with anonymous telegram channels, in my opinion there is one more way, on the contrary, to make ukrainian telegram more and more more transparent, so that the owners are verified, what is the problem with telegram, that there are anonymous telegram channels, and we do not know at all, they cannot be responsible, we do not know whether they pay taxes with the advertising that goes and so on and so on, so there are several. ways to solve this problem, but we must remember one thing that it is necessary to solve the problems with the regulation of the telegram, and i

understand you very well and that this too, the danger of state control is too much, but we know that if the state wants, then it may to control anything, yes, but we can see by telegram that the state does not really want its regulation. because if i wanted to, there would already be some, well, it seems to me, more efficient ways, and this is how we hear statements, and apart from statements, there is nothing so far, well, i will be happy to be wrong about this, so after all, it cannot exist the russian messenger is so free in the ukrainian information space, especially during such a terrible war, and there is a certain state regulation of this messenger, if... it has not already been closed and will be closed, because it really gained popularity among a large audience, there should be some regulation,

you know, we have americans and the same chinese tiktok, that is, the problem is an order of magnitude bigger, well, but, that is, although we understand that telegram is here the specifics of the fact that he is a certain distribution, disseminator of information, but returning to the initiative of knyazynskyi, that's how it would be better for me. i don't know, a healthy approach in advance, and certain logical norms are prescribed, and you know, using which ones then it would be possible to use specific criteria, that is, it should be turned off, then it should not be turned off, as in general it would work honestly, because if, for example, some other, you know, initiatives start to appear, for example, from certain populists , or from those who in general would like to collapse that system, well, the consequences may be much sadder. well, of course, that is, any steps in the direction of regulation of social networks, including telegram, must be transparent and they must

be consensual. with civil by society, that is, it is indisputable, but on the contrary, i have a somewhat different fear, that the problem will not be that they will suddenly accept something that is not very useful for regulation, but that they will not accept anything for regulation at all, but why, why, why , that is , we have very clever telegram channels that perform. so to speak, their pr or even slightly manipulative function, and we understand that they serve very specific people, you mean, they serve specific people, they serve specific political forces, well in in principle, the majority of political forces in our country have a relationship with the telegram and use it too, that is, it cannot be said here that only one is political, for example, power, or only power, for example, but what is the problem?

because independent media are being attacked, first of all telegram channels, which at least experts associate with the authorities, and this is what i mean, that on the example of independent media, we can see that the authorities are somehow interested in telegram was not regulated, i am only talking now about the example of independent media, but we we know that they are attacking... and many other institutions and figures there, for example, individuals in telegram channels. ms. natalya, if we understand correctly, then the conclusion suggests itself that despite the supposedly not bad initiative to somehow regulate and regulate the work of the telegram, in particular, because it is not only about the telegram, we will be faced with the fact that the parliament, which should adopt the or another draft law, may still not go

to such a... year, because it is no longer a secret for anyone that a large part of the deputies will listen directly to the speaker of the verkhovna rada, and who listens to the people sitting on the benches, that is, you know, it turns out to be a somewhat closed circle, what do you think about it? well, yes, i think it will be very difficult to pass any regulatory bill through parliament, in particular the telegram, and why, well, one. from the versions you voiced, i think that there may be other political forces that will not be interested in regulating the telegram channel, channels, but i do not see special prospects now in the parliament for to accept some such projects, by the way, now next week it will be a year since the law on media was implemented and... and there will

be certain events around this, the council of europe will hold round tables, and there i really want to hear about how the provisions of the law on media are implemented in ukraine, we, we and the media detector , by the way, are already preparing their analysis, we will then see, perhaps, how in general the state is currently approaching to be closer to its media policy towards the european union. thank you, natalia legachova, the head of detektor media and the editor-in-chief of the detektor media portal was in ether espresso. antin and i will say goodbye to you little by little today. you can even say not a little bit, we will say goodbye rather quickly now, but soon we will see each other. thank you very much, marta oliarnyk worked live in the espresso studio.

tankin borkovskyi, you must take care of yourself. respond to air alarms, see for yourself what is happening now and take care of yourself, our colleagues will continue to work for you, see you soon! greetings to all viewers of espresso and at once about the most important thing for this hour: two people were injured due to an enemy attack on the city of semenivka in chernihiv oblast. one wounded person was hospitalized, the regional military administration was informed. the russian occupiers hit the city with three controlled aerial bombs, completely destroying the building of culture.