"if it is possible to return these children to ukraine, will they want it? this is a question that needs to be clarified, because if they testify on camera in russia that they do not want to return, or immediately after returning, due to the fact that they were traumatized , re -traumatized, even during repatriation , will say that something is wrong here, this does not mean that they really think so and that this is their position, that is, children must..." undergo psychological rehabilitation, children must have a special a reintegration program and obviously a support program. we are not we are talking about the fact that each of them needs to give out, as russia does, apartments, cars, and pay huge sums of money, because it will at least be unfair, in relation to other children who have suffered from the armed conflict, but he asks and we do not want to buy these children, as the russian federation ultimately wants, we want these children to remain ukrainian citizens, to have this ukrainian... identity that

you can never really buy, that is, the russian strategy , it works as long as they have money, when the money runs out , the children pack their bags and will turn back, because what we see and what we observe, at least for a group of teenage children, are not so simple and not so effective, there are even russian manipulation strategies that have been tested for many years, probably from the soviet union, and therefore , for example, now maria lvova-bilova started such a new initiative from february 2020, when not only children, but also members of their families now go to re-education camps, that is , it is likely that this is calculated first for the frog of citizenship, and if such persons will do against this, they will be complicit in russian crimes, and therefore you need to think many times before sending your child to re-education camps or to russian schools, if such a choice still remains, but actually russian propaganda from... claims that ukrainian children, who

were returned to the unoccupied part of ukraine, that they allegedly want to return to russia, and isn't this a bell that russia may refuse to return them altogether. i want to explain this situation, because they simply cut out part of the ukrainian airwaves, its there they worried and talked about the fact that even ukrainian human rights activists claim that... the russian federation takes better care of ukrainian children than ukraine. this is delusional. cases when someone returned to the territory of the russian federation from ukraine, they are single, that is , among 388 children, maybe there is someone alone, and if we look at his personal history, we will see that there are relatives in the territory of the russian federation, which is possible there were some objective reasons why the child went there, maybe she did not return there to a permanent place residence. therefore, first of all, it needs.

additional clarifications, secondly, the fact that the russian federation somehow assumed that ukraine does not take good care of the returned children is also not true. we see that now, in connection with the significant attention of the international community to the crime of deportation, as well as in connection with the fact that new and new initiatives are being created for the return of ukrainian children, their rehabilitation, these returned children feel quite well. yes, we still need to satisfy their individual needs needs, in particular, as regards overcoming educational. as for psychological rehabilitation, again i mentioned reintegration, but these children do not beg, these children are in family forms of education, or study in our educational institutions, that is, this is allowed by ukrainian legislation and are in other forms of care, these children have certain benefits , these children have the constant support of such a social worker from the state, that is, not everything is as bad as the russian federation here wants to make out what it wants, and i... only

i would like to emphasize that now, not governmental organizations, but the state, are trying to improve the situation of all children affected by the armed conflict, and therefore there will be special support programs, and there will be a special program of psychological rehabilitation, but we must understand that, unfortunately , this , such things that require a certain amount of time to prepare, you cannot organize it in one day, the russian federation has been preparing for the deportation of ukrainian children for years, kateryna, i know that you often visit abroad, communicate with our international partners, in particular , last year in november you communicated with the un delegations and, if i am not mistaken, conveyed to them the concept of a single mechanism for the return of small ukrainians, to begin with, tell me what this concept is, and then i would like to know your observations. and your conclusions

about how determined and ready our international partners are to help the returned children, or is this just another set of tricks? at the beginning of 2023, the team of the regional center for human rights conducted such a global enough research, we studied the experience of those countries that faced deportation, abduction of their children, experience related to identification, related to return, rehabilitation and reintegration, we also analyzed existing international standards and international treaties in order to adapt them to the ukrainian context, but then again on the other hand don't reinvent the wheel. some kind of mechanism that no one has ever heard of and is unlikely to agree to, and as a result we have come to a rather obvious, perhaps for some and the scheme, it is quite similar to the one that existed in the grain agreement, when ukraine and the russian federation, because the children are under its control, and we, unfortunately,

without the complete surrender of the russian federation, without it, we cannot return the children now, therefore, ukraine and the russian federation must come to an agreement, but this must be done exclusively through a third party. which will not just be an intermediary to transfer some kind of list, as, for example, qatar is now doing, but which will also play the role of a guarantor of the process return, which will also agree on the simplification of the return process and on shortening its duration, on the unification of the documents required by the russian federation, and also to accurately predict the categories of children that ukraine will return to ukraine, that the russian federation is forced to return, that is, for this third party, there is a lot ... functions and roles, and therefore, returning to the question of whether all these initiatives are not just declarations, we must understand that canada, the united states of america, norway, they returned without joy ukrainian children already today, all 1900, but the russian federation will never in their life

agree to their mediation, so we are looking for someone for ourselves, to whom the russian federation will agree, currently it is kater, there are still occasional rumors about... some vatican, but again anyway, the ukrainian side does not confirm this, although the russian side there issued a whole report on the role of the vatican. there are also some initiatives on the part of the global rooster, in particular the republic of south africa, which i also visited, is interested, and it was announced by the president, to join the process, to effectively join the process of returning ukrainian children. and here we have to understand that this has ceased to be exclusively ukraine's pain, exclusively... ukraine's problem, and it must be solved, probably not only for ukraine. now we have to take the lead and develop a return mechanism, exactly the one that is in our concept, maybe something is improved there, more, i don't know, so

refined, you know, but so that this mechanism also works for other children who are now suffer in armed conflicts, then the probability of returning ukrainian children will also increase. the probability of supporting such a mechanism is also increasing, and such a weighty thing, which i want to emphasize, is that it is impossible to combine both the return and the bringing of guilty persons to justice in one mechanism, this does not mean that we should forgive putin and lviv bilov for the deportations and say, that we didn't see, it's very good that the children were returned, but it means that in the issue of return, the priority is return and that... in a potential written agreement on the mechanism of return may not be a provision on the responsibility of the russian federation, but this, again, does not exclude such responsibility, and the international criminal court will definitely not cancel the arrest warrants after the return of the ukrainian children. as a matter of fact,

with regard to this warrant, almost a year has passed since it was issued, but what has changed in this case and whether the list of suspects has been updated. unfortunately, in this case, in this episode, the deportation and forced relocation of ukrainian children, we have no changes as early as march 17, 2023, when arrest warrants were issued. that is , there are no new suspects, just as there are no additional qualifications or additions to the current arrest warrants. but their existence is still an unprecedented, mega-symbolic event, for the first time in the history of the existence of international criminal law as such, even not only international. of a criminal court, an arrest warrant is obtained for the current head of a nuclear state in the course of an active, rather heated armed conflict, that is, it was a great victory and could not but have an impact. thoughts were divided, including in the ukrainian expert environment, and the russian

federation also obviously insists that the issuance of arrest warrants only made the return process more difficult, but i would rely on statistics here in order to be as objective as possible. before issuing the warrants for the arrest of lviv-bilova, and we will operate with their data, because they are the same, i will explain what these data are, but let's start with them, therefore, regarding the issuance of warrants for aresh. she contributed to the return of five ukrainian children. after the issuance of arrest warrants, the quantity such children, in her opinion, where she contributed to the return of she and moskalkova 94, it is tangible, yes, until march 17, 2023 , a year has also passed, and for this year only five children, where they contributed there, a year has come here and already 94, that is, the numbers are different, but we, in the regional center of human rights, together with our partners from seane zlemkivska. of the institute for the prevention of the crime of genocide, came to the conclusion that even in those cases where they speak, we facilitated, we

facilitated something there, we have witnesses, that is, victims of the abuses of the russian federations who say: "no, she only interfered with us", that is, the russians put forward new and new conditions, the demand to pass dna tests, the demand to pass a polygraph test, numerous, long-term interrogations with the federal security service and other russian security forces. some kind of compulsion to undress and then get burned there to tell how they make the russian federation solely for the sole purpose of later using this record against these people and manipulating them, that is, even in these cases the russian federation did not contribute, but the return process intensified, and we see a change in the narrative: during 2022, maria lvova byulova told everywhere that president putin said to eliminate provolochki in the legislation, to grant russian citizenship to everyone, to transfer ukrainian children to... with ukrainian citizenship in russian families, well, there was such a thing that you can’t get out of the song , this is their conversation on march 9, 2022, already in the conversation on february 16

, it was on the eve of the issuance of arrest warrants, there she talked a little something about the transfer of the birth of ukrainian children, about the fact that she took the child herself, but it was already clear that they something is suspected because the international community has already started to prepare, they knew that we were gathering evidence, the first children were returning on their own, and already on march 17. there was a great silence, they were preparing what they would comment on, march 17, march 17, 23, the moment the arrest warrant was issued, they lingered there, lingered, then began to come out with a statement, maria lvova-bilova, these are her words, that president putin gave an order to facilitate the reunification of families, they do not say, they do not use the word return anywhere, because if if they say return, then it turns out that they were moved, it turns out that they were kidnapped, it turns out that they were deported. they say reunification, as if it's so neutralizing, something like that, they chose one of the words, and in fact they

somewhat manipulate this word reunification, because you can reunite biological families, but what about orphaned children, especially if they lost legal guardian, it will be much more difficult here, and they understand it and do not want to return such children, but less so, if i sum up this whole long excursion, i will not abuse, then the situation has moved from a standstill, and now we are already talking about some international initiatives, we are accumulating the support of the international community and we are planning, not just dreaming, we are planning to return thousands of ukrainian children in 2024, and i think that this is a significant merit of the arrest warrants . and panikaterina, on march 13 this year, the european parliament held a debate on the creation of a legal mechanism. the return of small ukrainians to their homeland, how can the european parliament

influence this at all? i would say it is logical a process of continuation, or even addition , of what is happening at the level of the council of europe. on january 25 of this year, a resolution was adopted , which also emphasized the need to create a single, transparent, understandable, legal mechanism for the identification and return of ukrainian children. yes, indeed, the european union cannot... be that third party, because the russian federation will not agree to it and somehow they cannot physically go there to return the children, but this is only one aspect of the big mechanism, the others are identification children, and here the european union with its capabilities, including in terms of software, intelligence, they can help us. next is the question of rehabilitation and reintegration, here they can help both with expertise and financially. as well as the organization of certain processes for ukrainian children, i would like to emphasize that

a significant prerequisite for the return of deported ukrainian children is simply a must have, it will not happen without it, it is a reform of deinstitutionalization, that is, until we have a registry of adoptive parents, until in not us there will be a queue, and it is already forming, because here you know, so that there is no cut-off later, a queue of adoptive parents is already forming, and there are those people who are ready to take deported... ukrainian orphans and children deprived of parental care and it will happen, but we a big and important reform is needed, so that no child is in these soviet-type barracks anymore, i don't... they will even call it an orphanage, because 200-400 people in one territory, it is more like a colony of strict regime, and not to a children's institution. we have to get rid of this, and this is also supported by the leadership of our state, and this is a mandatory condition, by the way, for our european integration. therefore, all these processes take place in parallel, in some of them the european union can certainly help, in

others it can support ukraine, and in the end, the european union has a huge system. treaties with the states of the global south, they quite successfully used this system of treaties, foreign trade agreements, preferential agreements, in order to avoid unrest within the states of the global south, now they can to somehow try to use trade and economic mechanisms in order for these states to at least join the coalition for the return of ukrainian children, and it would be desirable if one of them, either collectively or individually, acted as a mediator on this side. in relations with the russian federation. by the way, with regard to intermediaries, when talking about countries that can be guarantors, it may be worth considering countries that can have some influence on russia. in particular, for example, china. hasn't the question of joining this

country been discussed? that's a very good question, and me i'm sure it was discussed, although i don't have that information. because it is the most logical, that is, i think that our state started with two candidates, it is turkey, which was already a third party, quite successful, which now promotes the return of ukrainian prisoners of war, and probably china. i will not comment on the political and diplomatic position of china, because i think that my opinion is not mainstream, you know, i do not want to expose myself to criticism once again, but i am sure that china will not be a third party, and therefore we need to look someone and... but you are absolutely right, it must be a state that is in a certain relationship with the russian federation, well, not that it is on an equal footing and not that it is already on top, because china refused, but at least be able to somehow influence to the russian federation and for the return of a significant number of children, because you know, when they tell me that the return of 11 children is the largest group, it is a great

victory, i am happy, because every child is important who crosses the ukrainian border in the direction of ukraine. but 11 children is very little, at this rate we have no chance to return all for even one decade, so we need such countries that can potentially be further considered and what is currently being worked out, for example, saudi arabia is a pretty good candidate, russia has certain interests in this state and in cooperation with this state, it can to be brazil, and by the way, brazil also has such a rather ambiguous position on the russian full-scale invasion, so it... in principle, for the russian federation, this could be a candidate for negotiations, and at the same time we mention the brics, at the same time we mention that brazil - it is a large catholic country, and we have heard about the role of the vatican in the return of civilians, that is, as if the stars aligned, it could be kazakhstan, because it is not a well-known thing now, but kazakhstan is a recognized

country, at least by the un, by unicef , which has cool practices of identification. these abducted children in the context of idols, in the context of the abduction of children who were in various camps, that kazakhstan then repatriated them from syria and iraq. it is a cool state in terms of rehabilitation and reintegration of such children, and kazakhstan has some relations with the russian federation, and , in fact, i already mentioned the republic of south africa, which is also a member of brics, although we remember that putin did not go to the... summit in this country because of the arrest warrant , although he did not risk you know, this does not mean that he did not go anywhere, during the 23rd year, after the issuance of arrest warrants, he still traveled, and he traveled to that state, by the way, which you and i are mentioning today as possible mediators, i.e. here there is a certain potential of the state i mentioned to dream

that it will be someone from the states of our satellites, our partners, or from states with a recognized reputation in the field of defense. the rights of the child, for example, such a country as canada, unfortunately, does not have to, because the russian federation will simply, simply stand in a position. ms. kateryna, finally, i would like to ask you about the number of children who were returned, and do you know whether there are plans to return ukrainian little children in the near future? so, as of today, according to official information, 388 children have been returned. you could hear a higher figure, it could be a figure of more than 500 children, it is also mentioned, but it is together with those children who were reunited with their relatives, because they were separated in connection with the russian aggression. these children mostly returned from the occupied territories, but the number of returned, deported and forcibly displaced children is exactly 388, and it is unfortunately very small. ukraine

plans and prepares, because i don't like the word plan, you know, you can plan whatever you want, but preparing is already about something concrete, returning more children, and it's about about hundreds of children, we are talking about thousands of children, because no matter how we talk about the figure, which to believe or not to believe, but the registers... of children deprived of parental care were and are and continue to be at our disposal, therefore we understand very well who was deported from the kherson children's home, who was deported from oleshki , who was deported from there bordering the so-called dpr and lpr, the newly occupied territories of ukraine, this is all well known, it is not secret information for ukraine, that is why we have a list children with whom you can work and who can be returned, there are many preparatory tasks, i am again referring to this reform of deinstitutionalization. because if the children are of status, they can only be returned to their families, and ukraine is creating all such grounds in order to return these children, so i would

not make a big romance here and tell you that everything is really, really good here , and we will return all 19,00 children tomorrow, no, tomorrow, to return all of them, it will be quite such a predicament and a very big a challenge, will ukraine cope with it, ukraine will cope with it, but... is it about this and are there any plans for such a thing, no, no, now, unfortunately, the mechanism remains as it was, that is, if through qatar , then we transfer a certain list, and together with all accompanying documents, from parents, from guardians, the russian federation sits there for one, two or three months, even they themselves talk about it, examines this list, i don’t know what it he does it there, reads it word by word, i really, sincerely don't understand how it can take so long check in... documents for a maximum of 11 children, and then the process of physical return takes place, the mechanism will work like this for now, a single legal mechanism

has not yet been created, but the fact that more children will return in 2024, i am convinced well , let's hope for that, mrs. kateryna, thank you very much for an incredible professional conversation, and we were visiting... kateryna rashevska, lawyer of the regional center for human rights, and viewers, stay with us. tired of heavy and bulky saws, then saw strong unpacking tv is just for you, with it you can easily cut trees and bushes, it is so convenient to use. and for carpentry work, it is an ideal tool for your home or garden, and the price is only from uah 1499, also a reliable battery is included,

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at 11 a.m. in ukraine news on espresso , ulyana works in the studio. congratulations. four people were injured as a result of shelling in kharkiv this night. among them are two civilians, a rescuer and a policeman. this was reported in the state emergency service. the russians hit the city with mortars, hitting a three-story communal facility. a fire broke out there. during the liquidation of the consequences, the enemy struck again blow as a result of this attack, windows in neighboring residential buildings were blown out. russian tonight.