thank you, thank you, mr. ivan, for the conversation, it was ivan plachkov, minister of economy, fuel and energy of ukraine. friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those watching us on youtube right now, take our poll, we ask you, should ukraine strike russia's critical infrastructure? yes, no, or your answer option, please write in the comments, if you watch us on tv, take it in your hands smartphone or phone and vote. if you think so. that ukraine should strike the critical infrastructure of russia (0800-211-381) no 0800-211-382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote, we will sum up the results of this vote at the end of the program. next, we will be in touch with valery chaly, diplomat, ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america in 2015-19, chairman of the board of the ukrainian crisis media center. mr. valery, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. congratulations. glory to ukraine.

glory to heroes. you know, right before our eyes now the story of the shooting is unfolding in the suburbs of moscow, well, they are already talking about 40, 40 dead and more than 100 wounded, some unknown people entered the kroka city hall shopping center, where a concert by the picnic band was taking place. now this mall is on fire, there are some people in camouflage. of course, there is very little information, but... the way the russians are spreading all this hysteria and history now, it looks like putin will then call to save the country, as he likes to say, and use this history to increase mobilization, or conduct additional mobilization, to blame ukraine for this, as it happened at one time in the early 2000s, when... there were events in

nordost, and i watch these footage, i immediately have the story of nordost in front of my eyes, just like you watching according to this, how do you assess whether it is similar to those provocations or these terrorist attacks that were supposed to take place in russia, about which, by the way, the americans warned before the election of putin, the so-called election, well, let's start with what you said that we don't have enough information to... say what is happening, and moreover, everything that comes from russia comes through informational influences, so i do not think that we will have any reliable information, here you correctly emphasized that you warned about the possibility of terrorist attacks, just in fact, some representatives left embassies and called on several countries for their citizens to leave there, well, in the past weeks they left russia,

that is, in principle, that is, all this was foreseen by the intelligence of these countries, and why this is being done, we will see, that is, it is clear, that now you can do different versions, but i don't a supporter of some kind of conspiracy theory, i am only stating what are medical facts, that it was expected, and it was just commented on in the way that you said, the strengthening of the harshness of actions, everything... inside russia, well , we will hear how as a rule, they use this to form special information such slips , we get the next slip, i think, who is to blame for this, that this happened, that is , i will not be surprised if it is tied to their tasks of blackmailing foreign countries and ukrainians in the context of russia's war against of ukraine, but for... today, for today,

i think, another conclusion, well, i think we pay too much attention to what is happening, in this case in moscow, if we have really serious things on the front, and well, one way or another, there will be news around this, but don't forget that we have more urgent problems, issues that need our formation. including the informative one, beyond all doubt i agree with you, but since this whole story is unfolding, well , literally in these minutes there in the suburbs of moscow, well, in this story is obvious, it is obvious that the russian special services could not do without there, because the fact that they are now rebroadcasting and broadcasting russian telegrams, sinkholes there and various russian channels, well, they testify to the fact that they are dispersing this whole topic, we have the last two.

at night, the russians launch massive missile attacks on critical infrastructure facilities, putin's army hits the cities, putin's army hits the progress erases entire streets and makes kharkiv and ukraine in general uninhabitable. is the reaction enough? the world community on what happened, well, in particular, this night the most massive shelling and strikes, such powerful strikes on the energy infrastructure of ukraine. well, i'll tell you what is enough, of course the answer is simple. and insufficient, and here is a basic question , in fact, we, let’s say, not we, in the world, are starting to get used to this kind of messages, because this is not the first time, and you know,

systematically russia uses, well, once again i say, he uses strategic bombers, which were actually being prepared for a nuclear war one and a half kilotons of a bomb, that is, everything is going on obviously, and everyone knows it, it’s just that there is no such reaction, because no one understands what to do with it in the paradigm, in the strategy that existed before that, different countries of the world, and it is obvious to everyone that if we do not change our approaches, if we do not change in opposition to russian ... criminal, defiant, brazen and such frank actions, then it can go far. what you can see here, you can see what they're demonstrating is blackmail, it's obviously not just what you said, and it's right, destruction of the infrastructure, and this is also blackmail,

that is, they are trying to force the surrender of ukrainians by such and such and such... steps, because they understand very well that, firstly, not all these means are accurate, and secondly, that they are go astray, and thank god, a large part of them are our, uh , military, and the defense forces, and air defense, and her air force, they are well done, and our firefighters, and those who eliminate the consequences, they are fighting in this war, and this is obviously total war. and in the total war, it is now a stage where you can see what is happening, that is, this kind of reinforcement the maximum of all the capabilities of russia , which is actually weaker in the near future, and , by the way, german chancellor olaf scholz also spoke about this, intelligence data show that

the situation in russia is not improving, it is difficult for us, but everything is going downhill in them too, so they want to use this moment, and now they, it was predicted, in these... months, they are increasing the pressure in all directions, on everyone, but after that, i am sure, they will not succeed, that is , the only thing that we cannot lose , well, first of all, two things, of course, i want people not to were killed, so obviously now we have to work as much as possible to ensure that air defense and anti-missile defense equipment are as effective as possible and with the help... with the help of the skills that our military has acquired, but it is clear that you cannot counteract this with such massive actions, but i emphasize once again that here i see a lot of elements of a non-military nature, namely such terrorist elements for

intimidation and demonstrations of force, that is, in some moments it is visible, therefore, in the grand scheme of things... this shows the gaps that we have, it shows the partners the actions that are needed now, not procrastinating further, and it is very important, you said correctly, it is now to show as much as possible in the world, there is one nuance here: last year, ukraine seriously won, not last year, in the 22nd year, ukraine seriously won in russia, in the work of information outside the country, here is the personal contribution of the president. and zelenskyi, and ukrainian diplomacy, and everyone together, everyone worked on this. now the situation is more complicated. much more complicated, and i will tell you, let's be frank , there is such an index of soft power, russia having lost their reputation in the 22nd year, well

, catastrophically, they were in the 105th position there, they fell to the 105th position in the world, but now they have risen to the level with us again, this means not only. on western partners, this means china, and brazil, and south africa, and all countries, but this is a challenge, so i think we need to strengthen in every direction. precisely the truth and fixation of those positions and legal, legal, narratives that russia is now trying to undermine. in the energy sector, this is also a separate direction, i would said, here they will intimidate opportunities, exactly, the next stage will be the use of our infrastructure facilities for terrorist actions, terrorist acts, the way the zaporizhzhia station was captured by them, as they did... with kokhovskaya, the way they have there on the isthmus to the crimea, that is

, unfortunately, this threat of using such man-made dangerous objects is growing again, so we have to be ready for it, but russia demonstrates by this that they also have the picture that they create , it does not correspond to the real state of affairs, otherwise it would some actions would have been of a completely different nature, that is, they are now, i think, concentrating all... their forces, all possibilities in order to achieve the capitulation of ukraine by the summer. well, it is obvious that the latest statements, including those of dmitry piskov, putin's press secretary, who stated that we previously talked about a special military operation, and there is a war going on there, and russia is at war with ukraine , allegedly due to the fact that the west began to support ukraine, an interview in the newspaper. and the facts he said that literally like this: we are in a state of war,

so it started as a special military operation, but as soon as a group was formed there, when a collective event became a participant on the side of ukraine, for us it has already become a war, i am convinced of this, everyone should understand this for his internal mobilization, and at the same time he blurted out that russia cannot allow the existence of a state on its borders, which has a documented intention to use any methods to... play crimea, not to mention the territories of new regions, that is, everything is completely turned upside down, later pisco began to justify himself, said that the de jure is the svo, but de facto it is already a war, and what is on piskov’s tongue is obviously on putin’s mind and has been on his mind for a long time in the mind that he is waging a war, does this mean that with another, another so-called... election of putin, that they already approach the war with ukraine in a different way and move to

some new stage, which, well, they have to conduct there throughout 2024. the important legal point here is, surprisingly, the state war, if it were not declared in russia, it would change a lot, not in the situation itself, of course, at the front, but in russia. it would really be a signal of a completely different nature, which is why he began to take back his words. he said it deliberately, of course, but he began to correct it. i have my own version of this, it does not pretend to be the final truth, but i can admit with a large share of vanity: these numbers, which were drawn to putin, in this farce, which they call the 87% election, they are not from. reality, do not correspond, the difference with those the real support that is in russia and

the figures of this that they drew, they know, well , a narrow circle, well, it's not so narrow, i think that it can break through somewhere, and that's why i think that's what happened, that putin, on the contrary, now it is necessary to concentrate power again , because he realized that... well, let's say already his entourage, we took power for another 6 years, and now let's think about how to divide all the burdens of the war, and how who gets what under this time, there are many dissatisfied people, so he needs to strengthen his role again, and he strengthens his role through precisely the entrusted ministry of defense to those areas that it controls, because there are others there... you see the kremlin, that is why, in my opinion , in order to once again return

control to a knowledgeable person in such an environment, it turned out to be proclaimed a king there, to ensure , any candidates can be defeated and everything else is possible, but then the question arises, and the same methods are used again, i interpret this in this way, i interpret it as a weakness of putin, a weakness that... he got a real situation that only very well know still a small circle around or around him. well, but at the same time, the ministry of defense of great britain, er... tweeted, on behalf of the ministry of defense, that russia will attack the critical infrastructure of ukraine as long as it has the means to do so, and the month-long pause in long-range strikes was called problems of air fleet planning management, i will quote the message of the ministry of defense. russia will almost certainly continue to strike at

critical points as aircraft, aircrews and weapons stockpile will allow in an effort to maintain pressure. on the ukrainian government and population because of their ability to strike in confrontational conditions, this is a sign of a prolonged campaign where tactical aircraft such as fighter jets and helicopters continue to have a limited impact on the overall conflict, but judging by this announcement of the british ministry of defense report, it appears that from now on russia will shell ukraine for a long time, because they will never run out of planes, helicopters and missiles, because they still produce them and continue to produce them, because russia is a country that, as a rule, exports oil, gas, war, fear, intimidation of the world? well, look, we see a lot of such conclusions, they have the right to exist, but i will tell you, you need to understand one thing, you don't

need to believe everything that they say, and that... but it's true, you quoted me, that there is ordinary aviation, it will not have such an impact here, and the cabs from where, from which planes, they are not launching strategic bombers, they are launching dry bombers, and let's say, the consequences of both this and that weapon are serious for us, sensitive, but so what so aviation won't matter? and if there are 60 additional f-16s, that will matter with the corresponding armaments, and why, again, the dryers will not matter, if they are removed there when trying to launch bombs, then they will not matter, as far as bombers are concerned, well, first of all, it

's of course, as i said before, it's a weapon of nuclear war, and what's going on, i just... i'm just shocked that nobody, not china , is looking at it, weapons of nuclear war are being used to to kill people, just kill people with what they launch, that is, it is absolutely an extreme measure, and they use everything when they say that the escalation of russia, well, excuse me, strategic bombers use, now or for as long as possible, first of all , for all this, pilots are also needed, they are needed, and their restoration, repair is needed, because after all, a lot of time has passed and it is necessary to constantly monitor them, yes, they are still active, but you still need to think, you need to think about how to try to get them to the places of basing, they already are

this is how these bombers were dragged far into the sea. but it's all right, our guys will find a way, i'm sure, to reduce this kind of threat, we can't find a response to them now, but you know, there was a time when we didn't have a response to other means, but gradually it it was found, regarding the actions of the partners, if they say that this is what russia is continuing, then they should think in terms of how to... , and it's just that they're digging around the houses, that's it and electronic warfare systems, such systems exist in the leading countries, so it is possible for us not to put pressure there all the time on

the same types of long-range, as they say, missiles, but let’s talk about it now, because... in principle, there is a scrap against each their reception, and even against all of them there are also, and, for example, the fact that they are hitting the relevant, not just the infrastructure, ours is not hitting the infrastructure, that is, just somewhere, but specifically we saw it very precisely, selectively on oil refineries, which provide exactly the fuel for war, whoever said, it's about... it works, it works, and you have to find where the fuel for these bombers is produced, and it will work, and when these bombers are out of pilots and fuel and everything else, then they will be ironclad. well, but for this you have to work , so you mentioned about oil refineries, about our strikes on refineries, today ft wrote about the fact that the united states

of america allegedly called on ukraine to stop attacks on the energy infrastructure of russia, and in particular on oil refineries, on some they anonymous three sources referred, after that the vice-prime minister for european and euro-atlantic affairs. integration olga stefanishyna stated that oil refineries on the territory of russia are legitimate targets of ukraine from a military point of view, in particular according to nato standards. well, there is the statement of oleksiy danilov, secretary of the national security council, during the kyiv security forum, who stated that ukraine has the right to independently choose targets for attacks on russian territory. let's listen to what danilo said. this is quite such an unexpected thing, but i don't know who did it and why. from america - this is a big country, so it cannot afford such things, well, logically, what concerns our war, the key

word of our war, we are not going to ask anyone that we will attack on the territory of russia, we we will destroy the russians wherever we find them, everything related to the military-industrial complex, the russian federation, we will not ask anyone. permission mr. valery, is it possible to assume that, well, such conversations could take place between washington and kyiv, and washington could to warn kyiv not to attack russia's oil refining capacity, because they say oil prices will rise there, although on the contrary , oil exports there have increased, because the oil refinery is already producing some kind of oil product? well, such and such a conversation, by the way, in a circle. couple of forum , i also just came from there, the kyiv security forum, a very powerful, by the way , was a two-day such event, and there was a lot of discussion on the sidelines of this topic,

precisely by our partners, and i was asked such a question, not so americans, as the british, the french, the spanish, that is, i think , i don't want to speculate, there is a statement - well, there is a statement from padalak, that is, i don't know how to take it, that is, as an official position, but it denies that in the negotiations there jake sullivan that he passed on such information, no one will say about it, of course, publicly, well , let's put it this way, what the secretary of the national security council said, whatever the conversations were, but this is part of our strategy. so he confirmed that this is so, therefore, in principle, it is possible to turn this page, ukraine really should do this, in we don't have a choice, we don't have a choice

, that is, we can't afford not to defend ourselves in defense, and this is defense, it's not an offensive, it's purely a kind of defense , an offensive is what you occupy territories, and if you hit communications whether in warehouses or factories , by the way, this is already life, strangely enough, even the enemy, the occupier, that is, it simply deprives him of some means, is now moving to such a stage that without destroying the capabilities of russia to wage war by various means and reinforcements sanctions, to cut bypasses there, like that in a way, without this it is impossible to do anything, sorry, i would say so, enter... skaga completely on oil products for russia in the whole world, which should have been done according to the sanctions, which were not applied embargo, that is, even

then we can talk about something, and if all this is not just refueling tanks or planes, but also goes to earnings and strengthens the possibilities of continuing the war, then this war will indeed be long, but if these possibilities are cut, then the term will be shortened. war ukraine is interested in not waging a war of attrition with russia. and not to wage war on exhaustion means doing as much as possible now with the help of partners. they should wake up and understand that the time has come. if they don't, russia will really prepare, and then they won't see much. therefore, now, let them just think better, how to strengthen the actions that ukraine is forced to carry out independently. by the way, the former. the commander of the united states forces in europe, ben hodges, advised to ignore possible calls for an end to strikes on russian oil refineries and because they

significantly. affect russia's ability to wage war, and this is also a rather revealing statement by ben hodges, a man to be listened to. in addition, the summit ended today in brussels, the eu, the head of the european commission , ursula fondeyan, based on the results of the brussels summit, called it possible to allocate to ukraine the first billion from the profits from frozen russian assets. already in july, if the eu acts quickly to implement the necessary procedures, let's hear what ursula funderlajen said. now there is strong support, using frozen profits assets for military purposes for ukraine. i told the leaders that if we quickly agree to this proposal now, we will be able to allocate the first billion already on july 1, so it depends on us, it is in our hands. if we are

quick, it will be in the summer. mr. valery, what is slowing the world from freezing russian assets and using them to help ukraine? well you said about frozen assets, that's not what they're talking about here, they're talking about profit from frozen assets, i went a little further, yes, in that sense, it's optimistic news, because knowing, after all the european union is a large number of countries that have to make decisions with... freely, then this is already good news, which is so optimistic that mechanisms can already be applied in europe, because precisely the use of profit here has always been such a position: it must be agreed between the seven countries, which includes the usa, canada and european participants, and japan, and now, if they have coordinated these actions, then it can be said that the question of using the profit has already been resolved.

this year it is not 1 billion, it is more than only from europe, but we need to go further, the assets are really frozen, and here there is a problem that we, well, the people who lead our official representatives know, but i will simply say what the problem is, they, some countries say, we will keep them frozen this money, until russia begins to return ukraine to ukraine , they call it reparations, although the nature of this is that russia will not give ukraine after the war, that is, we will keep it, but when russia gives it, we will give it to russia, and such things, by the way, are very necessary look carefully, i saw in one of our security agreements with one of the countries, our friends, who established in the agreement with us the impossibility of thawing these funds, that is , we have to be very careful here, because

it is obvious that whatever... this will all work, they will try to use these funds for their goals of aid to ukraine, yes, but it will not be, you understand, they will take from these funds and if they were to help us with this money through the purchase of weapons there or financial aid, that is, here we must be very careful in what plan, if it goes right away quickly, it is important here where the money will go, i think with... after all, this is military-technical cooperation, the purchase of weapons, really, and not some recovery programs that can stretch there for years, we are now in conditions of survival, not in conditions there is the planning of the country's development, we need to finish this task first of all, i am not against strategic planning, and it is important to show that the country will live, the country will develop, the country will be in the european union. but

it is necessary that they quickly decide on these profits, so that they go to the imily, that is, to the most necessary goals now, and our government must also form it for them, well, the government, in our case i mean the office of the president, and therefore we need to actively talk about the next way of using those assets that are russian, well, the so-called frozen . in belgium, it seems, in luxembourg it is about 206 billion, it is less in america, by the way, than in europe, so the ice has broken, but we need to move more dynamically, and the head of the nato military committee, rub balar, who was at the kyiv security forum, warned against on...