[000:00:00;00] we will find out exactly what news the guests of the project will analyze this week and who will be the guest of the studio this sunday. undoubtedly, the topics will be relevant, the guests - special. proper names with myroslava barchuk. sunday: 17:10 at espresso. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together. see o 21st. news, summaries of the week. asymmetric warfare. against the background of a reduction in the supply of weapons from partners, ukraine is more actively trying to destroy russia's military capabilities , strikes with drones, arranges sabotage and cyberattacks in the russian federation, and such tactics unnerved

not only our enemies, but also our allies. terrorist attacks of the russian federation for more than nine months , the south of ukraine has been reeling from the attack of the russians on the kakhovsky hess. then the water flooded more than 60,000 buildings, some of which are still awaiting repair. an attack on a concert in the suburbs of moscow, the death toll is increasing, the russians are looking for a ukrainian trail. about this and much more already at 21 on espresso. we continue the program of the saturday political club, khrystyna yatskiv, vitaly portnikov and add to our conversation pavel klimkin, a diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine from 2014 to 2019. congratulations, mr. pavle, glory to ukraine, glory, congratulations, the saturday political club, and you, mrs. khrystyna, and you, so let's try to understand the situation surrounding the russian

terrorist attack, and from what aspect? how the events unfolded in general precisely in connection with these western warnings, why did the united states and great britain make such demonstrative warnings about an imminent terrorist act, they formulated it that way, inevitable, and the russian federation pretended that there was no such thing at all, and what these are all bourgeois inventions, why did the states, everything is absolutely clear here, and here there are reasons that can be arranged in three such dimensions. well , first of all, they have to do it according to their legal obligations, including international ones, and unlike russia , the states are somewhat unconscious of these obligations. the second point is that there are a number of procedures between intelligence agencies on how to exchange such information when there is intelligence about

a possibility. so are the americans getting, as far as i know, on the eve of boston marathon, remember, there was a terrorist attack there once , the americans also received something , i don't know how detailed it was, but they want this process to continue, well, and the third point, the americans had to officially warn their citizens after that , how did they get this information, because there are very clear, actually legislative , legislative prerequisites for this in the united states, they legally, not only politically, have to worry about these citizens, and these are three reasons why on march 7, that's what you 're showing right on screen, americans

officially warned that there is a very high... probability of terrorist attacks, why the russian special services did not react, this is a question that we may not know 100% in detail, but we see that, first of all, this is a real blow to the image of the russian special services, just as a full-scale invasion was a blow to the russian. of the russian army, and especially this is a blow to the fsb, since the fsb had to do it in the first place, and in this context, when i hear phrases that someone, as if one of these terrorists, was looking for a window at the border, well here also a question to the fsb that after 10 years of war and two years of full-scale invasion,

if the border cannot be closed. for a small group of terrorists, what is the fsb about then, so there are quite a lot of questions here, you can ask them through someone, i think it takes 10-15 minutes. and mr. pavle, well, taking into account , well, you know, putin's experience in relevant situations, god forgives, wets his sartorial and so on, he should now concentrate on the statement that was published by the amak news agency, which is connected to idol, although idil herself does not particularly provide any evidence or refute this statement, well, allegedly . to concentrate now in that direction, but stubbornly, stubbornly, stubbornly insists on the fact that ukraine could not do without ukraine, that ukraine is the main terrorist in the world right now, and that is exactly what the russian federation is fighting against. is n't he compromising himself with such

behavior, in the eyes, perhaps, even of his recent voters. in the eyes of their voters, definitely not, since the logic of propaganda there is completely different from the very beginning. it was clear that they would pretend to be internal, that this whole story could not have happened without the involvement of ukraine, i think that they will sell a different story, a story about sympathy, a story about the need to strengthen the cooperation of special services, a story about joint challenges in the fight against terrorism. i think that there will be another such full-scale approach in this sense, if putin decides that he needs to build such a line of communication

with an event around it, well , a line of communication with other special services will be built in the same way, and i think that the main emphasis here the russian one will go to the countries of the middle east, well , india and china, of course, but... also to israel, here they will not miss these opportunities, as far as in principle it is possible to say that russia can, let's say this, all of its versions are really like this in a way to continue to promote that this will affect public opinion in countries where people are, so to speak, realistic about information, because we know that terror is always like that... a moment where many people start to feel emotions, and not healthy stupidity, of course, and what we have many are worried when they see that the reaction to this terrorist attack is immediate and

meaningful, and compare it to the reaction to the latest russian attacks on us, which sometimes seems so muted and in principle not... not in real time, then it plays , of course, and psychology as well, but nevertheless , for the russian reality to submit it further and enter the information space of the west with the version that it is about ukraine, although the americans really warned and warned publicly, it will not really work, so i think that how i... already said, there will be two options, one for of the west, one for russia itself, and there will probably be even three, one more adapted for non-western countries, where there will

actually be a mix, so there will be several approaches, some propaganda ones, which russia will now use, so to speak.. .. about what is happening now with the results of the presidential elections in russia, many people in ukraine do not understand why the west has not made any decisive statements regarding the illegitimacy of these elections and the illegitimacy of putin himself, but can the west even afford it? i think that it can be allowed, but as of today, actually do not know what it will lead to, it would be a cut. almost all contacts with today's russian regime, since if it is claimed that putin is illegitimate, then who in general is legitimate in this country, since even according to the russian constitution

it is a presidential republic, then it is necessary to immediately cut off all russian ambassadors from communication, they and so there is not much communication in the west, but nevertheless, then it is necessary to ask... the question of russia's vote in international organizations, and in particular in the same to the security council itself, and then this is raising the stakes, for which, as you actually... said , the west is not ready for today, because what the west did, it condemned the elections in the occupied territories, which is self-evident, but did not spread the actual this logic for all elections, one of the lines of how to explain it, is connected with the fact that many people in the west claim that, well, they drew some numbers there, well, something is thrown away. there was something in the quotation marks, but

nevertheless, putin still has a majority today in today's reality, among of the russian population, and the election, or what is called an election, he still won. for putin, this is actually perceived as a weakness in the mentality that exists in russia, there should be action after the conviction, and if... the west said, and if there are elections, then accordingly there will be 1-2-3, but it did not happen that the west said this before the election, not 1 2 3. well, actually, you see, even the meeting of the ministers of foreign affairs of the european union, which just happened at the beginning of this week, did not lead to to snap decisions, that is, there, as far as i know, various strategic options are considered. stretched in time, and in modern

politics, what is stretched in time is always not immediately connected with the cause. well, mr. pavle, let's switch to several interesting visits to ukraine, in particular , the national security adviser of the us president , jake sullivan, lynsey graham, as well as a rather influential senator, visited our country, but regarding the latter, i think that there is a little difference in words actions, given that he did not vote. by aid to our country and other strategic partners of the united states during his time in the senate, but he says you will get attacks and you will definitely do what needs to be done, in particular with the kerch bridge, if i am not mistaken, sullivan was more reserved, said that for now i can't please you with the appropriate long-range weapons, and in general, how do you rate these visits, were there any specifics in them for you, well, i... how can you call a visit to me that jack

salevan came, lynsey's visit is somehow somewhat too much, i say this with respect of course him, i've known him for many years, and as far as i'm concerned, that linsey, who was, well, friends, or maybe friends, political partners of mccain, and i well remember my joint conversations with them there, remained in your memories, in short , and almost no one in the party can afford , as far as i am concerned, to go against trump in today's republican primary, since the chances of pre-election fall many times, and what about the fact that linsey largely repeats trump's logic there with loans for ukraine and so on and so forth. that's me actually in today

reality is not very surprising, as far as jake is concerned, well, jake just never comes, he always comes to discuss strategy, approaches, and i am sure that his visit is generally about logic, how to do things together, what the administration is ready for at the stage of the election campaign that she wants to see from us? that she herself can provide, that is, this is such a serious conversation , because sullivan is in some sense , i don't know whether it is the right hand or the left hand of biden, he enjoys his trust, and you know that sullivan, he is perceived by many of us almost like a politician, but in the american sense he is not a politician, he is a person appointed directly by the president who... works under the president, that is, a person who is responsible for

coordinating all activities in the field of national security, and the source of decisions in this field is, is directly president biden, this does not mean that sullivan's influence there is somewhat limited, he is really crazy, that is, all these decisions converge on him, but nevertheless, he is not a politician in our sense. and... tell me, mr. pavle, that here in kyiv there was a meeting of advisers from issues of national security, at which even mr. saliv was not present, and we still do not know who was at this meeting, why it was held. why suddenly the previous meetings were covered in different capitals, in different cities, they said that they were related to the preparation for the summit to be held in switzerland, which the ministry of foreign affairs of this country is currently preparing, but this meeting of advisers, it actually turned out to be so secret that there are not even telegram channels that can invent

any news, you can order even this, no information about what it was, and well exactly ... the question is not for me, i think that if you write something in your telegram channel, then this blockade will be there, of course, it will be broken, well, national security advisers, to be completely serious here, they can afford not to report what and how they are doing, since again they are not politicians, we are used to a different logic during the war, since we also have representatives of the armed... forces, representatives of special services usually have the opportunity to contact society, but for western societies, this is not really such a classic approach, i don't particularly remember that in europe

national security advisers go into the public sphere, sullivan is of course an exception, and this is a different approach, which at the same time ... precisely to the american system, and mr. pavle, we saw this week information from the financial times, in particular, that there are certain reservations on the part of our american partners regarding the strategy of the defense forces of ukraine to hit oil refineries on the territory of the russian federation, of course, that ukrainian officials and representatives the office of the president mostly denies this information. the usa does not put pressure on us in this regard. what the numbers tell us: the uk ministry of defense says in its latest report that at least 10% of russia's refinery capacity is actually affected, meaning frozen at least for some time.

how sensitive do you think the issue of global oil prices is for the united states as of now and does it make sense, again, that the states have some caveats about us? i am not sure that such terminology alya dekabratz is optimal here, but you are right that this is one of the most sensitive issues, for europeans it is super sensitive, but even more so for americans, because for them the price of gas stations is a certain... indicator in which direction life goes on, especially for those who live outside the big cities, have cars there with a large volume of engines, for them refueling, which happens there every other day, if the price

increases, the tank there is significantly, that is, it all affects, and as for the conversation about... about the blows we inflict on russian refineries, here, as they say, in odesa, there are two big differences, the conversation is about this pressure. it is difficult for me to comment on what the financial times writes, i assume that such a conversation could take place, but this does not mean that someone there comes to us, calls and says, but no, it is impossible under any circumstances, because yes, so and so and so... the conversation usually takes place in the logic of what can be, what is the logic of this, what can we achieve, what are the risks of escalation, what are the other risks and so on, but no one will tell you about this , since americans, europeans, all our friends,

officially take the position that they do not encourage strikes on russia and do not know about them, so this... in principle, no one will comment, and by the way, i do not rule out that something like this conversation, but a similar one may arise after this event in the moscow region, since actions there on russian territory may in this reality cause a different response, in which the stake will be raised. but this does not mean that the conversation turns into pressure, but whether there was such a conversation, i cannot confirm or deny it, as they say, thank you. 2019, and now we will talk about energy with mykhailo gonchar,

an expert in energy and security relations, the president of the strategy 21 global studies center . congratulations, mr. mykhailo. good evening well , let's start with an assessment of, i would say, those blows to the ukrainian energy industry that were inflicted these days, especially since ukrenergo is talking about the fact that these are more strategically dangerous actions than even. attacks on ukrainian energy in the winter of 2022-2023 ? to some extent yes, although a caveat should be made pay attention to one thing: if the most powerful blow in the season before last year, 22-23, came on november 23, 22, then the power system blacked out, so in a few hours it was possible to ... restore operation, but nevertheless , the fact took place. now the unified energy system of ukraine

has withstood this blow, despite the fact that the damage is very serious. well, of course, it can be said that now was not the winter peak of consumption, january, a month when the consequences could be much more serious. but also in november of the 22nd year it was not the winter peak either. consumption, so in principle, i would say that the plus point is that the system survived, so we can see that kharkiv and kharkiv oblast have not recovered to a large extent, energy consumption has not been restored, there are only local, well, working generators and some local work is being done to restore it, and eventually in the rest of the areas that have experienced de energo. the objects were damaged, energy consumption was mostly restored, therefore , one way or another,

the power system was again demonstrated to have a sufficiently high stability of ukraine, and this is an important point, regarding the situation related to dniproges, of course it is problematic, because it is a powerful gs , the most powerful in the dnipro cascade, well , there are about 1.6 gvv, one and a half there. standard nuclear power units, and this maneuvering power, it fell out, it is precisely this maneuvering power that is important to us, uh, such maneuvering power, we are thermal generation and hydrogeneration, and therefore, in principle, this just means that the blow was delivered systematically from the point of view to unbalance the energy system as a whole, and in particular to apply strikes that, according to the enemy's design , should... turn off the power supply for our main industrial district, this is the dnipro district, where

our main industrial centers are located, the same dnipro, zaporizhzhia, kryvyi rih, and so on, well, how we see, it did not succeed, although the destruction is certainly serious, mr. mykhailo, but we simply somehow miss the fact that actually the night before it was attacked... thus, our large-scale energy was also subjected to a very large-scale shelling, which was concentrated on the ukrainian capital. many who monitor the russian federation's ability to stockpile missiles and reload them into strategic bombers were surprised that they did not pause. don't you think that the russians are now, well, actually forcing or trying to force cover, force us to cover ours. energy facilities and distract them from some other important goals for them so that, realizing that actually

our air defense capabilities are absolutely not infinite, well, we are we do, it's just that it's not reported, that is, anti-flood power units do not stand still, they are constantly in motion, because if they stop somewhere, they are destroyed, let's remember the recent incident with petrio. they are constantly in russia there, and this is the norm, then, if, in fact, there is nothing surprising in the fact that on the 21st there was a massive attack on kyiv, and on the 22nd on other targets outside kyiv. if you recall, on october 10-11 of the same year, in the same year , the situation was somewhat similar, the 10th strike and the 11th strike were the same, so it is in principle. well, you can say that already this is a proven tactic, that is, the first blow in

the toe is concentrated, the second is scattered. since the enemy, well in this case we, from the point of view of the attacking side, should , so to speak, once again be focused on the fact that there will be a second strike on kyiv, and they did it in a completely different way, but this speaks of what is actually, so to speak, on the table of the command of the air space forces, this russia, this scenario has been lying for a long time, it's just that they... obviously had other priorities, and then decided at this time to strike with given the fact that before that they had systematically and systematically attacked the defense and industrial infrastructure of the same dnipro region, but the question arises as to how ready they are for any new environmental disasters, this is also a very important moment, i think, well, for them

there is no question there, let's say, if uh... there is some kind of ecological disaster on the territory of ukraine, well, they will not be accepted in this regard, for example kakhovska kes, what happened, but again, lately i have been concentrating on , which is incorrect to compare what happened with the kakhovskaya hes dam and the shelling that took place on the dniproges, akovskaya... the kokhovskaya yehes dam was blown up, destroyed, because of it, because of the delivery of the appropriate amount of explosives, tons, if not tens of tons, and laying there so that engineering mining could be done there, taking into account what the dniproges dam is, first of all, the very

scale of these, both hydrotechnical... structures are completely different, and taking into account the fact that the warhead of any missile, even herself powerful there, which are used now x22, it is only 960 kg, so to speak , with the help of a missile strike, to destroy a hydroelectric dam such as in zaporizhzhia, dnipro-hydroelectric, well , it is impossible, it is necessary to control it, lay there... dozens tons, at least of explosives, and then there will be the effect that occurred twice in the history of dniproges, in 1941 and 1943, because some such, well, of course , you can hypothetically imagine that there are several bomber regiments of russian aviation with powerful bombs of the fab type there (3

tons) will bombard this dam during some long time, well, but of course , our hostile defense will not give them such an opportunity, they will be destroyed much earlier than they come to the line of bombing, so if the fact that such information about a possible ecological catastrophe due to russian strikes began to spread, it just too an element of such accompanying information and propaganda operation, aimed at the fact that ugh. panic and nervousness in ukrainian society, well , corresponding moods. now let's talk a little about russian energy, next time oil refinery was affected, this time kuibyshivskyi, and we are talking about today, before that there was a series, and already 10% of russian oil refining capacities

were actually paralyzed due to the activities of the defense forces of ukraine. please tell me, mr. mykhailo, can this, firstly, have this already led to the corresponding effect in russia itself, and can it somehow affect the prices of oil, oil in the world, the behavior of the relevant organizations, ala opec, and in general, can it provoke some suv, well, look, what it destroys russia's... critical energy infrastructure, in this case , oil refining, it is true, and it is already recognized by everyone, both our friends and our enemies, but when it comes to the fact that allegedly ukrainian strikes on russian oil refiners screw up the prices of oil to the world market, this is absolute manipulation, first of all, it is not