uh, those crimes committed by the putin regime, so here in this case, i think, the calculations of the russian screenwriters show that it can have an effect, will this effect actually have some effect, but the issue of the survival of the russians of the russian nation and the transformation of the sect moonshine on those who will have a little chance of survival depends on how quickly they will realize who is basically evil and understand that... crimes and evil come from the kremlin, you know, there is such a cognitive, certain cultural dissonance , when we see this from one side of an aryan blond shaman, who , so to speak, identifies with the russian, the russian standard is national, so genetic, and on the other hand, well, we understand that they are fighting at the front, for the most part, they say that mr. ivan ro separated her opinion, it's just that the buryats are different, there other shamans are exactly the same, but well... everyone

has probably seen these pictures near the largest mosque in moscow, when they take place there, there is this prayer, namaz, we just remember that 2 million muslims live only in moscow, this is a country, where, christians are not really in the majority, we remember that all this time, for example, there were more churches in ukraine than in all of russia combined, christian churches, i mean... churches exactly like parishes. in a word, this is the story, this is also the dissonance, which shows that russia to a certain extent remains such a colossus on clay feet, but for now those legs are holding the colossus. well, gentlemen, let's go now for a short break and then we'll talk to natalia ligacheva a little about such things as freedom, democracy, freedom, democracy, after a short break. tired of heavy

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drone attack on kyiv and other cities of ukraine, drone attack on moscow and other cities of russia, analysis of processes that change the country and each of us, the country. should get the right to start negotiations on joining the eu. vitaly portnikov and guests of the project: we are bored, because there is nothing to fight about, let's go come up with, help understand the present and predict the future. for the world, a second trump presidency will be terrifying. project for those who care and think politclub. every sunday at 20:10 at espresso. premium sponsor of the national team represents stronger friends united by football

, we are back on the air, we will now talk with nataliya legachova, the head of the public organization detector media and the editor-in-chief of the portal detector media, we will talk about the state of freedom of speech in... in ukraine about ukrainian journalism, about ukrainian telegram channel as a phenomenon, well, in general , about where we are, in what state our democracy is in the third year of a full-scale invasion, mrs. natalya, congratulations, congratulations, this week there was jake salevan, yes, in ukraine, the visit was unannounced , quite so fast, spontaneous, but accordingly there was also a briefing, which rarely happens in our country, but when someone comes, it is necessary to... and it was such a unique event that you could ask some questions to yermak and sullivan, and sal , i don't know if you've watched it or if you've seen it, no, unfortunately, unfortunately, no, i haven't i watched it, i also missed it, because it was once or twice in the evening, and then it

was always a bunch of news, the front, shelling, the russians started mass bombing, not that much, but saleon came, he was asked there, so what is the ukrainian victory , as he sees a ukrainian victory in the states. to which salyon said that, you know, the victory is, if ukraine remains, it will be sovereign, independent, democratic, and it should be, as he said, er, some, in a word, such a functional democracy, in which there are strong democratic institutions, somehow he emphasized it, expanded his opinion that it is extremely important, and then he was questioned, as far as i understand, whether it is or? ukraine must return all its territories, and he avoided answering. here there is, here there is a question with a question at the same time, and this morning i saw it on one well-known and very respected and cool ukrainian media, with the headline that sullivan did not mention

the return of ukrainian territories, describing the future ukrainian victory. this traffic jam lasted an hour, i think, maybe longer, it seems, he still appeared in the evening, but in the morning he lasted literally. and it was demolished and changed to a headline , something like, there in sullivan, he praised the ukrainians, he believes in our victory, himself, this very news that he evaded the fact that he said it, did not mention the return of the territories remained , but she remained what is called in the basement of the news, that is, if you disclosed, it is somewhere at the very end, it was mentioned there in a couple of lines, and when i was like how about how a professional yes, a person who deals with this, already, already, already, already a very, very long time ago, i understand what happened, there was some act of censorship, it was an act of self-censorship, it was an act of some kind of interference, that is, we know how it was, because i saw the times when you could call from the president's office, from the administration president, i see

what it was called, and say: listen, change this lock, or don't broadcast this news, well, it even called the opposition channel, remember when yanukovych whipped that wreath. when he, together with medvedev , tried to put it down, then so that all the editorial offices would call, the administration would not be lazy yanukovych was threatened and told not to post this fragment, so that it would not appear anywhere in the news. well, in a word, i am talking about whether this is important information, important, m, whether democracy in general is important in the country, well, our key ally, a key donor in general in this whole story, believes that this is a victory if ukraine. .. will have democracy, this is such a long prelude to the conversation, i apologize for taking up time, but it is very interesting to hear your thoughts, well, of course, democracy is very important, and we are really fighting not only for territory, but also for democratic values, regarding

the example you gave, i just saw this news with such a headline, i did not see that it was changed, i would not be in a hurry to say that some act of censorship took place, well... that the emphasis of the headline should be changed , it happens and... by the way, it happens in the media detector, like if i see something that i think the production editors didn't do well enough, i can ask to change something, the main thing is that you don't leave it in the news, but the fact that we have many threats to democracy in the country, now, well this is a fact, and we understand and feel this for ourselves, independent media, and this has objective reasons, because war... it dictates its own rules, it really reduces

civil liberties, society in general and people too, and the government has this legal right, and there are also subjective reasons, of course, which, unfortunately, lie in the plane of political struggle, and the desire of the authorities, perhaps, in some way to fight with their political ... competitors, although political competitors, too, quite often lead i don't feel very good about myself, i would put it mildly. well, here's an example for you, very, very fresh, which is about 10 minutes old, 10 minutes ago we talked with the previous expert, and we said that today there was a very powerful missile attack, and we all know that the target was stryi, first of all, a small town on lviv . and we asked why? and

the answer was that let's not talk about it, and i then asked again, why? and this question, well, literally, it, it sparked my interlocutor, which is not clear, let's not talk about it, but why? because the russians know very well what they are for beat, very well. have, moreover, they have coordinates with an accuracy of a meter and a centimeter, when they are hammered into their geolocations, right? that is, we are not revealing any secrets, even if we named the real objects that we would hit, but the question is different: maybe some mistakes were made, maybe there was an enterprise that russians have known for a long time, it is possible exists, for example, i am now saying, or some military unit that still exists on some maps, i don’t know, from the 70s, which... in the russians, respectively, if there is still nothing from there not redeployed, then there is someone who

should answer for it now in this situation, right? or, for example, it may be that precisely because we raised this issue, we begin to think, and how did it happen that a completely new, new something, a new formation, its coordinates, the russians definitely found out about them, how did they know about it found out, satellite intelligence, is there still someone, for example, some kind of mole, some... that is, in such a case , some questions are raised and some mechanisms are launched in a democratic, well, in a democratic society, and if we if we don't put it, then no one will ever bear any responsibility, and we don't know whether someone raised this question, whether the country became stronger because of it, well, there is such a logic, true, well, i would still be here i am also careful, and i am a media expert, and i can simply say that unfortunately... in the third year of the war , we do not have clearly defined boundaries, we do not have exactly

military censorship, that is, we have vaguely defined boundaries, borders, what can be said in the media, what can’t be done, what line to follow, what has to do only with checking certain bodies to give, although we we know that everyone who works at the front shows their videos, and that's okay. it should be so, regarding, or, well, again, regarding the specific situation with the military, it is also difficult for me to say whether it was possible to name the object, whether it was necessary to ask some questions or not, because after all, i am not a military expert , the fact that the media often self-censors, or based on their ideas, editorial ideas. from the perspective of the owners, or from the perspective of the authorities, we certainly

understand that many media cooperate with by the government in one way or another, and that the government has an influence on many media, it definitely happens, there is often no understanding of how much it is within the framework of a situation that benefits society, how much it does not benefit society, this is indeed the case. .. eh, what questions? i, well, i can just say my recipe, so i, firstly, read several sources, ee important information for me, secondly, i still focus on quality. because high-quality publications will always ask such questions, well, that is, if we are talking about strategic questions, then i listen or portnikov on espresso, or on any other platforms, or i read the mirror of the week, or i also read some other experts from the rozunkov center there, for example

mykhailo gonchar, and on energy, after the last shelling, that is, i choose. .. those people who will give a balanced and truly expert assessment, and who will really ask the authorities the questions that need to be asked, and how to ask the authorities, the authorities, if even the experts very often do not have any access to the authorities, we do not have opportunities, for example to ask, moreover, deputies cannot ask questions to the prime minister, who is, in principle, elected by the verkhovna rada, and in theory the verkhovna rada can dismiss him at any moment. but it is not like that, and then it comes out, then the democracy index comes out, ukraine is somewhere between azerbaijan and honduras with a mark, a hybrid regime, well, this is really a problem, and it consists not only in the fact that you cannot physically set it there, but you can, well in the end , ask through the same media, and through our

many information platforms, and even during the war, you still have to give credit to us. information pluralism is preserved, there is a monopoly telethon, but there are many other platforms where you can ask these questions, the problem is different, the government really does not want to hear questions, does not want to hear criticism, and on the contrary, it is also very actively finding funds, time, and energy and people who start fighting those who ask these uncomfortable questions. or they give an uncomfortable expert assessment of some phenomena, that's it, that is, the problem is that there is information pluralism, platforms where you can ask questions and to provide expertise, but to influence the processes in the country, indeed, civil society is limited in these possibilities,

and this is also bad, and i think that when sullivan emphasized the importance of... democratic institutions, he also meant the fact that they have the opportunity to influence the processes in the country, because otherwise it's just a game, well , just two, three or four voices that just sound, and sometimes it just turns into a cacophony. mrs. natalya, you said that the authorities sometimes even attack those who... they want to ask concrete, understandable questions, or at least hear an explanation of these questions from the authorities, and in particular those who attack, these are anonymous telegram channels. i read in the news that in spain the court banned telegram for a while while

the investigation is going on, because the zmi, the local zmi spanish, appealed that this these... they are causing harm, i just think that spain is very far from russia, and for some reason in spain they understand the threat of this social network, which was invented by a russian, in our country, meanwhile, telegram is flourishing, more moreover, some anonymous telegram channels are flourishing, moreover, we then see how representatives of these anonymous telegram channels come to... the president's office, or will we wait until the telegram channel is finally banned in ukraine? well, the situation is a little different in spain, it’s a shame there, there was uh , the problem there was that some users complained that

users to whom they gave permission could download certain text or video. but as to the harm of anonymous anonymous telegram, it is you are definitely right, moreover, this is a russian messenger, and if, in any way, they did not fight back from the fact that they do not cooperate with the kremlin, but many experts have very big doubts about this, that is, i believe that telegram had to be closed by the time he got up. so popular among ukrainian citizens and became one of the main platforms for communication, including with the occupied territories and so on, this did not happen. now i don't see any prerequisites for that telegram was closed in our country, and there is actually no understanding and no experts on whether it should

be done, but telegram should be introduced into some framework of state regulation, it should definitely be done, or as it was, there was an initiative of mykola knyazhytskyi, a people's deputy, a member of the committee . specialized in information and humanitarian policy, regarding the fact that state institutions stop, well, organizations , institutions stop using telegram, as is the case in some countries, by the way, in the west, or, well, for example, i have an opinion about what this may threaten that only anonymous telegram channels will then be a source of information, and perhaps a broad campaign should be made to... telegram become transparent, at least in terms of ownership, remain anonymous, er, begin to be regulated by the law on media, and there are 36 articles that contain, well

, quite a lot of uh stuff, regulation for media, and so on, so i don't have a recipe for what to do with telegram. at the moment, i think that there should be some kind of consensus between the civil society, society and the government, but i understand that it is impossible to leave the situation as it is now, but whether there is political will for it, i am very sad. well, there is , for example, the solution for tiktok is almost actually already in the united states, this is good for us, i think there may be a signpost here, there is spain, which just now disabled telegram, because there is a ... problem with the distribution of unlicensed products through well, that is, intellectual violations of intellectual rights are meant, not what is actually meant there was a time with vkontakte, once in

contact they somehow slapped and in the end it seems to me that no one was harmed by this, well, at first some users may have suffered there, and then they forgot what contact is, and now even those children can be asked how you live without contact, i think they won't even understand what we're talking about, well, yes, i'm here... an expert, because i've never been there, so it's hard to say, but the problem is what i'm saying , that i believe that it was necessary to close the telegram necessarily, but back then, in 2014, or when he started to appear only a little in ukraine, he was needed, now, when he has already become the main platform for obtaining information for more than 70% of people there, it is really quite difficult. to do, and we understand that our special services also use it, including for e.e. carrying out some surveillance operations and for communicating with people in

the occupied territories, that is, not everything is so simple, although some deputies and experts say that it really is there would be a way out, but i 'll just repeat what i have personally there is no recipe, i believe that there should be some kind of professional discussion, no no... not a very broad one, maybe not public, but a professional discussion of all involved parties, all stakeholders, consensus development and a clear path forward to the fact that to change this current situation for the better. one of the arguments of telegram users is that, they say, you want us to draw information only from the marathon, the only news, and this is that the information is also concentrated only in one hand, in the hands of the authorities, in addition to the fact that there are some free smi, but mostly all this information flow, it is under the umbrella of the government, also pushes people to use anonymous

telegram channels, but i think that is the topic of our next conversation, ms. natalya, thank you for participating in our broadcast, nataliya legachova, the head of the detektor media public organization, the editor-in- chief of the detektor media portal was in touch with us, dear friends, we are going on a break, we will come back and continue, in the meantime you stay with espresso, you can make a donation at this time, we will show you later, because people ask us that we we showed the card number, we will show it later after the news, april 6, flash, dead rooster with the wundervafe program, especially for you favorite action films of the legendary band. we will rest at 7 p.m. on april 6 at the festa. tickets for the ua concert. laughter, physical activity, sneezing. even during such a small load,

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maria gurska meets with the head of the polish foreign affairs committee every week the sejm, authorized by the polish government for the restoration of ukraine, pavel koval. as always, we talk about the most important things that happened this week in poland, ukraine, and europe. what is being said about ukraine in the eu, how should we perceive the statements of european politicians and what will our accession to the eu look like. in the project "close to politics, close to the world" with maria gurska. every sunday at 15:30 with a repeat at 22:00 in collaboration with au sisters. an unusual look at the news. good health, ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresen. sharp presentation of facts and competent opinions. and in america too they say, let's make better roads , we will have even better ones. a special look at the events in ukraine, there will be some katsaps on the border of kyiv and beyond. what kind of world does mr. norman dream of, can we imagine it? all this in an informational marathon with mykola veresny, saturday 17:10, sunday 18:15 at

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we are stronger, i congratulate you, dear tv viewers, it's time to learn about the most current events, i will start this issue with this: without heat and hot water, these are the consequences of the attack on the town... of the ivano-frankivsk region. on march 22 , the russians hit a local critical infrastructure facility with drones and missiles. when they promise to restore communications, we will ask my colleague ivan haruk, who joins our broadcast. ivan, my greetings, and tell me about the situation and what the locals are saying. good afternoon, the locals were, of course, scared after the shelling that took place here.