economy and people, and the task of the political leadership of ukraine is to provide our military with all these resources, then you can set something concrete and demand something concrete. mr. general, thank you for the conversation, this was serhiy krivonos, reserve major general, former first deputy commander of the sso and ex-deputy secretary of the national security council. friends, we work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are now. see us there, please take part in our vote, today we ask you this: do you believe that the terrorist attack in moscow was organized by the federal security service, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, vote, or yes, no, eh, and write your comment if you have your own opinion on this we would appreciate your comments if you are watching us on tv then please call if you believe the fsb is involved in the moscow terror attack (0800-211-381), no 0800 211

382. all calls to these numbers are free. at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote. then in oleksandr hara, diplomat, expert on foreign and security policy, defense strategy center, is in touch with us. mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast. good evening, mr. sergey. congratulations. let's start our conversation with the terrorist attack in russia, which took place on march 22. and we can already see how, in the current situation, putin is trying to use this tragedy in order to change from the role of aggressor to the role of victim, and at the world level, to create an image of russia as a country that is a victim of terrorism and a country that defends itself from terrorists, from terrorists and businesses, and from those who, as putin said, were cutting a window for them. on the russian-ukrainian

border, which absolutely looks like a delusion. how do you assess this situation, to what extent does this story help putin to start active contacts with the world again, and in particular with the special services of various countries, to restore, with the special services of civilized countries. well, you know, now there are different versions of what happened, i think that's for sure. it is necessary to reject and not even consider the ukrainian trail or the cia, what russian propaganda is doing, trying to link us and the americans, well, in fact , certain circles, those who are supporters of conspiracy theories in the united states, trumpists, they also hint at it or simply directly link it, although of course, there is no fact of this, and by and large it is possible , i think there are three such versions, that

it is actually an islamic state, well, with afghan subjugation, because there are a large number of them, to be honest, it is difficult for me to say, i am not a specialist in the middle east, but , if it was really an attack islamists, and the fsb of the all-powerful fsb in a totalitarian state, the state missed it, realized that this... at least for the thinking part of russians, this is an indicator that there is a powerful facade, the absence of rights, freedoms, in the name of security, but there is no such security , and of course that this is a factor that may not play in favor of this regime in the future, the second point is, if they knew, but allowed to use for their own purposes what happened this tragedy, and of course, try to to tie it with ukraine, to show that... for

to fight terrorism requires additional powers, fewer freedoms , which means the death penalty, which, i think, after these unfortunates who, who were caught, and i have no sympathy for terrorists, i have, let's say, doubts , that these people were actually involved, at least they were the core of this terrorist attack, and the third option, of course, is what the fsb itself could have planned. this is what is called a false flag operation, i.e. impersonating someone else, or for another purpose, and all three versions seem to me quite are significant. regarding, well, we know very well that the americans and other western countries warned the russians, primarily from their own citizens, but also warned the russians through closed channels that a large-scale terrorist attack was being prepared, and it is difficult to imagine that

the special services did not listen, did not check on their own channels that this is planned, you are absolutely right that it is apart from trying to link this terrorist attack. there will be other things with ukraine, one of the options is, however, not with this administration, but with the future administration washington, most likely trump, they can say: look, we are fighting a greater evil that is an immediate threat to you, so let's cooperate, as we did with previous administrations, i want to remind you that on september 11, 2001, putin called the president bush, supported him and... then there was very close cooperation of the special services, the military, there was even a nato base on the territory of the russian federation, an american base that provided logistics, that is, military operations in afghanistan, i no longer i'm talking about providing airspace for american transporters, that is, all this

was, and of course putin will try to use this card to let us ukraine is not so important to you, we are not a threat, we are solving our security issues, and here.. .. the needle is definitely something that you, with which you should fight, despite the fact that trump solemnly declared that the needle is over and there is no more threat, here, but it seems to me that there is still a very important important point , this is barbarism, kotsap barbarism, well, we we all know, and in ukraine, and in fact have already seen during this war since the 14th year, this is both cut off ears and squeezed out eyes, and... it means the russian peace, which is traditionally, yes, we still have torture, genetalium, that is, all these full sets of evidence from the time of the soviet union and the gulag, that all these tortures, shall we say, were used, so this may be an important point for

those who are, shall we say, supporters of islam in a more radical form , became even more radicalized, and of course. that we 're going to see a witch hunt now, everyone who is, well, i will not name the representatives of the north caucasus, central asia, you know how wonderful the katsaps call them, of course that there will now be efforts to squeeze them out, maybe some pogroms will be sanctioned to squeeze them out of the country, and of course that this can then reverberate through radicalization and continuation of terrorist. and it is clear that this will throw the russian federation into chaos, because it is clear that we are the biggest enemy, all the forces are drawn against us, and of course that russia does not have enough forces to respond to such things, so in the long term, it

it will definitely be worse for the russians themselves, they will have to pay for this barbarism, and in the end, i was honestly surprised that gil took it. itself, let's say, responsibility , because yes, russia said that in the 15th year it was going to go to syria to fight in general, but in fact they were fighting in defense of the assad regime with the forces that were against this regime, and i am not sure that a large they destroyed the number of igilians there, and precisely because of the direct clash of the igil, well, i simply did not see it, at least in the information space, that is why let's say so, or new ones. tension with this organization, and it is clear that there will be revenge, especially for such barbaric things, especially during the holidays, holy times for muslims, especially this hatred that is now being generated and will be directed against the islan-islamic

minority in the russian federation. mr. oleksandr, well, it is not completely clear whether it was a department or not, this is also another question, because in the country... the russian federation, anything can happen, that is, i will not be surprised that they can say one thing, show another, refer there are some sources in the department and there is something else to disperse this topic, although the president of france emmanuel macron said that the threat of separatism was also looming over france, and he convened the defense and national security council yesterday because of the attack in moscow, but i am in this situation the most... what surprised me was that the whole world started talking about this case in the crocus city hall and that there is no place for terror on planet earth, but the country that is

a terrorist in this situation, that is, it commits this terror on a larger scale every day on the territory of ukraine, that is, they kill... hundreds of thousands of people are killed on the territory of the ukrainian state, they simply destroy cities to the ground, they, uh, in terms of the level of terror , have long exceeded... hamas, in general, is a state that has put it on such a level , if it is correct to say, on the production flow, that is, when they use hypersonic cruise missiles, aircraft, various types of weapons against ukraine and engage in this terror, such international terrorism, why, when they express sympathy to the russians... why do we not hear these sympathies every day ukrainians, when these russian terrorists are destroying and

trying to kill us, well, you know, i would also add, apart from ukraine, this is something that is not in the columns of newspapers, well , the katsapas kill syrians every day in the same way, that is, the war there has not ended, and they are as in shooting ranges are dropping bombs, killing syrian civilians, and that's why syria has been completely forgotten, i think that's typical of this... you know, the disease of our 20th, late 20th, early 21st century, which is the so-called spin, when there is news, they circulate there for 24-48 hours, everyone is horrified, and then they forget switch to something else, secondly , the violence that is happening in ukraine has already normalized, because children and women are killed every day, destruction is happening, that is, this is already such a background, well, what’s new, it ’s just a continuation, for two whole years . we are talking about a war, although in fact it has been 10 years, and only our best friends and correct

journalists, they constantly emphasize that these are two years of a ten-year war, that's why it seems to me that there is a problem with this, and of course, there is also a problem with the liberal world that they cannot help but sympathize with the grief when the innocent are killed, i understood that in russia there is outrage, that ukrainians, if not, let's say, are happy because what... happened, because there were certain moments in social networks, then at least they are indifferent , and our western partners, i also saw such criticism on twitter that this is not normal, you cannot dehumanize these people, they are not guilty of anything, by the way, there is an interesting point, well, of course, this is a theory of language, but has the right to exist, that the terrorist attack had to happen somehow earlier, and when a shaman was supposed to give a concert there, and then with... that there were more groups of such detached nazis, they would have been gathered,

maybe the reaction of ukrainian society would have been even more unpleasant for the russians, but it is clear that this is our normal the reaction of ukrainians is not to sympathize with the country that supports, i mean the population, and they cannot be called citizens, which council supports this war, which is actually ready to destroy everyone... and it does not matter whether they are children or military, actually, unfortunately, ours the western partners have not yet understood this, and that is not possible, that is, it is not a sign of civilization when they sympathize with a murderer, when they sympathize with a country that, as you say, commits terrorism every day, that has sponsored various terrorist groups around the world, those and hamas, the taliban themselves, they owe everything to moscow, that is, these people who did... similar things in their own territories, and precisely because of that, well, it seems to me that there is a problem with

the political culture of our western partners, which they still succumb to driven by their own values, not realizing that in this way they are playing the game that the kremlin proposed to them. macron , already mentioned by me, mr. oleksandr, said that... he will cooperate with the russian special services in the anti-terrorist field. let's hear what he said. we have offered to expand cooperation with russian intelligence services and our partners in the region so that the perpetrators are found as soon as possible and that we continue to fight effectively against these groups that target several countries. we can see it now in russia, a couple of months ago was seen in turkey, and something. here we see how macron

, who only a few weeks ago said that he would send troops to ukraine, hinted at french troops going to ukraine if russia continues to go, is already ready to cooperate with russian special services and talk about the fact that we are ready there to expand cooperation, this is the soft rehabilitation of the russians through... this entire history, or should it be perceived that way? well, i think that this is just a continuation of the western approach, which is where you can cooperate with russia, it should be done with... i understood that terrorism is a threat to all western countries, and here they are guided by their own national interests, and where interests do not coincide, of course, there are conflicts and there is support for ukraine, i am absolutely sure , that mr. macron will not change his mind about helping ukraine in exchange for such a changeable, somewhat ephemeral

cooperation with the russian special services , moreover, to be honest, it is difficult... to estimate how much they helped the same france to deal with such things. now there are russian mercenaries and russian regulars special forces are located both in mali, from where france was disgracefully thrown out, and in the sahel region, they do the same things, we remember those terrible maps, pictures, when they tortured and killed many terrorists there, although there is no difference. even if it is a terrorist , then with him, if he does not surrender to kill, and if he surrenders, then there should be decent treatment and there should be a trial and an appropriate punishment, well, we do not see this with the russians, so it seems to me that this is a continuation of such an approach, and it is quite logical, well here you know, we can of course criticize, but still they are guided their own national interests, and if there is

even a small possibility to avoid victims on their own territory or their own citizens in other countries. then they will use such and such cooperation. mr. oleksandr, pope francis, who has been criticized a lot over the last month, said that the destruction of infrastructure in ukraine would threaten a humanitarian catastrophe. during the divine service in st. peter's square in the vatican on sunday, pope francis called not to forget in his prayers the suffering ukraine. let's listen to what the pontiff said. we pray for all our brothers and sisters who are suffering as a result of war. i am especially thinking of the suffering ukraine, where many people have been left without electricity due to intense shelling of the infrastructure, which, in addition

to causing death and suffering, carries the risk of an even greater humanitarian disaster. the pontiff did not name the culprit of this humanitarian disaster, that is, again pope francis is talking about the fact that there is such a situation, someone is firing there, people may be left without electricity, why the head of the vatican and the pope, why does he avoid naming and does not want to call directly on putin, to stop. this war, well, you know, there are two such moments when we talk about him and the vatican, some call him vatnikan for obvious reasons, it is clear that he sincerely wants ukrainians not to suffer, that this war should stop, and how a christian is, well, let's put it this way, i try to do both in sermons and in prayers, but on

the other hand, there is a political component to his statements, his views. starting with the fact that literally last year there was an interview where he said: "i constantly communicate with the russian ambassador, and one of his parents is from russia, the other is from ukraine, he is very familiar with the situation, and that is exactly why i understand well what is happening there, that is, instead of turning to the first source, to the ukrainian representative to address the believers, his flock in ukraine, and they would, of course." he was told what was happening here without any political correctness, of course, so that it would be much better, but it seems to him that he can eventually become such a mediator between zelensky and putin, he he said about this more than once, he said that he would come to kyiv if the next visit was to moscow, in order to prepare or

launch this peace process. we understand that the pope, who does not have... shall we say, tank regiments, paraphrasing stalin's phrase, and at least is credited with such a phrase, then he does not have such power over putin, who, well, you can say in christian terminology, is the antichrist , because he professes and acts in absolute contradiction to the teachings of jesus christ, and he himself, pope yamandzu, is trying to maintain this balance in order to have the opportunity to talk , to become a mediator, not understanding that... this is a useless business, not understanding that in this way he equates both the aggressor and the victim of the aggressor, and not understanding in this way that he actually puts rather inconvenient. the situation of the ukrainian flock, because if he came here, if even he came to poland and met with the vryans, lviv, it would be a very

serious gesture of support for ukraine and the victims, the innocent victims of this war, but political calculations do not allow this to do, i think that not only the desire to become a mediator, but also the tradition of the catholic church since the second world war, they understand that there are congregations in russia as well. and if somehow he can call putin in more correct words, call him, if not the antichrist, then a murderer, then the rights and interests of his flock can suffer the same oppression as the same jehovah's witnesses, who actually destroyed this christian church in russia, took control, oppress them, as well as the greek-catholic ukrainian or orthodox church. the ukrainian church under the occupation territories, so it seems to me that these political calculations outweigh his christian love for the ukrainians and the victim, and it is a pity that he behaves in this way,

it seems to me that it would be the most correct of his with let's say this, for him to pay a visit to ukraine, to stand on on the side of those who are suffering, and the second point, i think it would be better for him to fix his concern and efforts not on peace, he is not... able to do this for obvious reasons, on the return of ukrainian children, this is also a christian thing of course that it is something that catholics around the world would definitely support, and of course we would be extremely grateful for any outcome. thank you, mr. oleksandr, for the conversation , it was oleksandr khara, a diplomat, an expert at the center for defense strategies, and i would like to remind you, friends, that we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook forms today we are conducting a survey, today we are asking you about this, do you believe that the terrorist attack in moscow was organized by the federal security service, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you

watch us on tv pick up your smart phone or phone and vote if you think the fsb is involved in this terrorist attack 0800 211 381 no 0800 211382 all calls to these numbers are free call at the end of the program we will go… let's get the results of this vote. next, we will be in touch with ilya panomaryov, a russian oppositionist, former deputy of the state duma of the russian federation. mr. ilya, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast today. good evening. well, since we ask our viewers, and in on tv, and on our youtube and facebook platforms, about what they think, whether they believe that the terrorist attack in moscow was organized by the federal security service of ukraine. i will ask you too. what do you think? the security service of ukraine or the federal security service. federal service of the russian federation fsb. so. well, i certainly believe

that she could have had a hand in it. and we already have many examples in the past when this happened, and i remember very well how mr. putin's first term began with... explosions in houses in moscow and in other cities country, and of course his fifth term could 100% start with the same thing, and here we see it, and in general, it all looks very suspicious, this whole story with these tajiks who were heading towards ukraine, according to the words. .. according to the kremlin leadership, this is all very, very, very suspicious, and i think that, unfortunately, this is a likely story. and tell me, you

remembered all these stories, we remember in 1999, when houses exploded in 2004, when there were explosions in the subway in moscow, then there were many different stories that were related to putin arranging, or... let's say how, as stated by people who described it in various books, including lytvynenko and felchinsky, who described how putin undermined the russian federation, and used it every time to in order to consolidate his power, first in order to come to power, then there was beslan in order to take control of the mass media, then uh... there were several more stories that basically indicated that every time he did in order to take a bigger step towards totalitarianism and authoritarianism.

at this stage, if we assume that the fsb had something to do with these terrorist attacks, what purpose did it pursue? well, look, now all this coincides, if less, with those events that are taking place in the kursk and belgorod regions, and if we remember, putin was warned that this would happen there by the western special services. and this was still on march 7, after which there was already a second warning, which was on march 19, that is , we know for 100% that he was at least warned, but did not receive any measures there in order to this did not happen, why? well, i believe that he wants, well, if less blame

, to blame our fighters... and ukraine in general, and secondly, he can restore the death penalty there, and use it in relation to partisans and fighters in volunteer units, that is, he plays constantly to increase, to increase the possibilities of their possibilities, and what he says, that here is the ukrainian track and this whole delusion that they have been telling for the past three days, that... these terrorists in quotation marks traveled 450 or 500 km from moscow to bryansk in the bryansk region to the russian-ukrainian border, where everything is mined and on that side there are a lot of security forces to pass through this window, well , i don't know how it was possible to pass there in this renault, this is this window that putin talked about, this he later twisted this whole story with the ukrainian trace to show

the russians that... look, there are fascists, there are terrorists, and these terrorists together with the fascists are the biggest threat to russia, and therefore we will increase it, well, xenophobia in russia about tajiks and various people from the middle school asia or there from the north caucasus, and we will fight with ukraine, that is, killing two birds with one stone in this way, this is the thing that threatens the russians the most, no... of course, that is, for him, we must constantly create such an account of the enemy, and emphasize it, and of course, he wants to tie everything together, and here is terrorism, and here are the tajiks, in russia they really don't like guest workers from central asia and the north caucasus, all this xenophobia, well

... this is of course the west, because they will definitely say that later on television this corazon, these are the consequences of the american presence in afghanistan, and the americans are also behind ukraine, and that's why it 's all one gang, and here's the evidence for why, why it's all the same, but here he falls into a certain branch, because. .. for him at the event, it is useful to use the theme of idols, because he turns out to be such a victim, and this is how you discussed here with mr. khmara in the previous topic, that you cannot combine the victim, the real victim of aggression, which is ukraine, with the , what is happening now in russia, but with the help of this terrorist attack they

they can... say we are also victims, and it will resonate in many western countries, and there are many different western politicians, they will claim exactly that, and it will help in russia to oppose financial aid to ukraine there and to to change the focus of attention from the russian... ukrainian war to such a global, well, really existing problem of international terrorism. well, literally in these minutes, as we were on the air, putin made several new statements, russian propaganda channels report that he said at a meeting with security forces, the terrorist attack in crocus could be a link in a series of attempts by those fighting with...