espresso, the second part of the verdict program. my name is serhii rudenko, i am on the air today. a request for terror. the kremlin is trying to drag ukraine into the terrorist attack in crocus. how to prevent the transformation of putin from a terrorist to a victim in the eyes of the world. unexpected personnel rotations. zelensky fired danilov and appointed a new secretary of the national security council. with what changes in the power bloc, legislative provocations in the european parliament are concerned about the discrediting of civil society in ukraine, is there a threat of collapse of democracy? friends, we work directly on the air of the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, if you are currently watching us on facebook and youtube, be sure to subscribe to our pages, like this video, and most importantly...

vote in our poll, today we we ask you about this, do you see threats to democracy in ukraine today? yes, no , everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have your own special opinion, please leave it in the comments under this video, if you watch us telecast on a smartphone or phones and vote if you see threats today for democracy in ukraine, then call 0800-211-381, not 0800 211-382, all calls. on these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's studio, they are people's deputies of ukraine. mykyta poturaev, people's deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people faction, chairman of the verkhovna rada committee on humanitarian and information policy and president of the osce parliamentary assembly. mr. nikita, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. rostyslav pavlenko, national. deputy

of ukraine from the european solidarity faction, member of the verkhovna rada committee on education, science and innovation. mr. rostislav, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. good evening, greetings to all. yaroslav zheliznyak, people's deputy of ukraine from the holos faction, first deputy chairman of the parliamentary committee on finance, tax and customs policy. mr. yaroslav, i congratulate you and i am glad to see you on the air. good evening. well, since, gentlemen, we ask our tv viewers and viewers about or? do they see threats to democracy in ukraine today, i will also ask you in the format of a poll, what do you think about it, let's start with yaroslav zheleznyak, mr. yaroslav, do you see threats to democracy in ukraine today? well, to answer very briefly, yes, thank god these threats are not critical yet, but a lot of the processes that are...unfortunately

happening are definitely not in accordance with the best democratic practices, which we are very concerned about. often, and recently , our foreign colleagues also speak publicly. thank you, mr. nikita, you do you see problems with democracy in ukraine? there is no connection, something, we have some problems with the connection, now we will redial nikita paturaev, i apologize, mr. nikita. mr. rostislav, do you see threats to democracy in ukraine today? unfortunately, yes, there are concrete manifestations, indeed , our partners have already openly and clearly told us about this, and i hope that in the course of our european euro-atlantic integration, common sense will still prevail, and we will stop all these attempts to create that dictatorship. i hope that nikita poturaev is now too will join our blitz. we

will hear what nikita poturaev thinks about democracy and the threats that exist, mr. nikita, once again, good evening, give me something, we have some problems with communication, do you see any problems or threats to democracy in ukraine ? well, of course, i see threats to democracy in ukraine, only they are not, well, internal, but they are external, because the state is trying to capture us completely totalitarian, so all... threats to democracy in ukraine, they come from reshiska muscovy. that's all, our internal ones problems, they are absolutely, in my opinion, within the framework of the democratic process. let's talk about the internal problems that occur within the framework of the democratic process. yesterday, two deputies from the servant of the people, galina trityakova and maryana bezugla, introduced a bill on life imprisonment for misappropriation of state functions, including representation. at international events without

the granting of authorizations and approvals, at the same time she herself called her bill a provocation and a test for political discussion, what did mariana write? on the bill will not be voted on, it is really nice to see how colleagues woke up, who are often not moved by non -urgent matters, who are happy for a cheap chance to show their commitment to the ideals of democracy. at the same time , viola von kramon, a member of the european parliament from germany, was outraged by the provocative bill of people's deputy bezugliy on the prohibition of appropriation of state functions. she is serious, writes mrs. von kramon. a legislator introduces a project in the verkhovna rada. draft laws to do what, to provoke? i hoped that here in kyiv we would deal with more mature colleagues, it is very strange to read these stories from someone from the ruling party, when we are actually trying to start negotiations on joining the european union. these initiatives, of course,

will not help much if you start openly discrediting and limiting the work of civil society organizations in the country by law, well, that's the kind of provocation that tretyakov made... and the reaction of a member of the european parliament from germany. well, mr. nikita, since these are your fellow party members and members of the servants of the people faction, why are they doing such provocations, or are they just testing, what will be the reaction of civil society, what will be the reaction of your political opponents, what will be the reaction of the members of the european parliament? see uh , there are different people in any parliament, we don't draw conclusions about the republican party based on what a famous so-called, well so-called, sorry, that's her

name, margie taylor green, says or does, we don't, right, and ms. violi, whom i respect very much, should look around the european parliament and look... how many different devils there are, including absolutely pro-russian ones, or how many of them there are in germany, including in the german parliament, or pay attention to how the parties of russian devils are growing, i will not name them specifically, although all know, in different countries, both in the old europe and in the new, it means absolutely nothing, because different people get into the parliaments, and... before drawing any conclusions, you have to ask yourself whether the servant faction did the people submit these bills for consideration? no. or did the conciliation council bring it to the consideration of the verkhovna rada? obviously not. whether there are votes in the parliament for such initiatives is also obvious.

therefore, yes, of course we can discuss the proposals of individual people's deputies of ukraine. but let me remind you that there are such offers. and not only from our faction, there were many, different, and not at all with all, not that the parliament agreed, but i would say that the committees, even, well, i would say, none of these proposals, controversial , were not missed, even before the hearing in the hall, and there was no question of the hearing in the hall at all, that's all, so i don't, i don't... would draw conclusions about some serious challenges for democracy from individual initiatives that are not supported by anyone? you know, i would agree with your answer completely under one condition,

if mariana bezugla did not play an important role in the removal of the deserving commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, this is the first, and second, mariana bezugla is... and the parliamentary committee on issues of national security, defense and intelligence, that is, it is not just some ordinary people's deputy of ukraine or a person who can simply write some bill and say: well, i trolled you a little during the war, yes, i am the deputy chairman of the parliamentary committee on national security and defense, but i decided to have fun with galina tretyakova and decided to write such a bill, well, it looks completely irresponsible from the point of view . the policy of a people's deputy of ukraine and one of the heads of the parliamentary committee on national security and defense. mr. serhiu, one short remark: i don't think this is the right behavior, i don't think it's correct initiatives, but all our deputies

are members of some committees. if we say that the committee on development and defense is now the highest priority, i agree with you absolutely, but that does not mean that, for example, the committee on which i have the honor to serve is worse or lower in status and importance than the committee, which you mentioned. now all the initiatives. intelligence and defense committee, they are priorities, that's true, but all the committees are important, because actually all the committees are working on, working to ensure our victory, without any doubt, mr. rostislav, how do you feel about such a provocation, as marijana bezugla says, and i think it is worth taking into account, you quoted violetta von kramer, she said one very important thing, she says: about an adult politics, speaks of a serious attitude, and i absolutely agree with the fact that a person who

holds the position of deputy head of the committee, one of the leading ones, definitely does not like this behavior, and i will say even more that his colleagues, the members of the committee, disagreed in the draft decision in order to remove her from this position, as far as i know and the representatives of the regulations. the committee would also support this position, but for unknown reasons we can only guess about the possible influence of the president's office, the chairman of the verkhovna rada does not put this issue to a vote in the hall, and thus does not allow to express the verkhovna rada's own attitude to the behavior of this person and giving her an assessment, including such things, and feeling her impunity, she continued... can do such things, i think that not the last thing, what you mr. serhii mentioned about her role in the resignation of zaluzhnyi,

it is really very reminiscent of the use of ms. bezuglai as such, well, i don’t want to use those slang expressions, but there is a certain attacking element, let’s call it that, well and this is definitely not what the parliament should be doing now, i think my colleagues support me in the fact that the best way to conduct work... in the parliament would be the way we all worked in february march 22, then that's exactly what i think that the ukrainian parliament really demonstrated the peaks, just, well , mr. nikita in the committee, as far as i know, just such an atmosphere prevails, but unfortunately, this is far from the rule for this parliament, but it should have been the rule, and not what ms. bezula thank you, mr. yaroslav, how do you perceive this as a political battering ram, i will call marian that. bezugla is simply trying to bring some topic into society and the information space and protest

whether it can be, whether it cannot be, or whether it is just the artistic self-activity of an individual of a people's deputy, well actually, but in this artistic amateur activity, if it is an artistic amateur activity, there is a very negative reaction to it in the european parliament, in particular, let's start with several points, first, thank god, the draft law has been withdrawn. well, i understand that the damage is already done, but at least we don't keep running on the rake that was laid out. second, look, we can criticize some mps and the house of representatives, the united states and the european parliament and the bundestag, but there is one big and very powerful difference. we don't have them they ask for money, and we from them, they do not ask for weapons from us, but we from them. not for them to join the european union and nato, for us. therefore

, what they, or some, unfortunately, representatives, like the aforementioned taylor green, can afford, we cannot afford, and especially we cannot afford from the ruling coalition. our european colleagues are not very well versed in ukrainian politics. they don't know that there are people's deputies who... and i don't know if it's some miraculous mushrooms or something else that affects them, but it inspires such legislation, but they really open the title, and unfortunately, the title says the head of the committee, the deputy head of the committee, it is probably not very fair to mr. poturaev, what about maryana, because as far as i remember, maryana first left the party, publicly wrote a statement for the second time. leaving the faction, and the only thing that is currently stopping this process of leaving the coalition is that,

for some reason, her statement is not read at the parliament session, and for quite a long time, for the same reason, the resolution on the dismissal of her deputy is not issued, but this is a separate topic, i probably wouldn't really want to focus on it, i would like a little bit for us to rise higher, look, it's no secret that especially... in terms of european integration , in addition to a huge number of friends, we have opponents and the most prominent of them is hungary in the person of orban. every such mistake, even if it wasn't, i don't believe in conspiracy here, that it was a throw to specifically protest society, the guys from the president's office, to put it mildly, are not distinguished by a very high emotional intelligence, but it seems to me that that's right clumsy would not do it, but in in any case, this mistake gives a pass to our

opponents to talk about the problems of democracy, and combining it with reality. problems, starting with the resolution of the european parliament on the ban on visiting deputies, yes , on limiting parliamentary diplomacy, starting with fairly fair complaints about freedom of speech, starting with other issues that are already often heard in public, and that's about it it has become immovable to speak openly to our european colleagues, we are such a bill as a country, why am i not speaking there maryana and another, we, as a country, threw in another argument, which, accordingly, these opponents of ours will definitely include in their report or letter or news, and it is mandatory to represent ukraine as such, as in which practices, the same in terms of curtailing democracy, as in the country of the aggressor, which is

completely, i agree with my colleague, a completely totalitarian regime, we do not need that. that's why once again today i saw a good opinion from a colleague yuriy gaidai from the center for economic strategy, i really liked it, that's all, here's the story, when our internal politics were interesting only to us and influenced only on us, it's over, that's it, we started negotiations on joining the european union, now, at least, every action or inaction of ours is part of european politics, whether we want it or... not, and each, unfortunately, a mistake, this is also a mistake of european politics, which has a strong enough influence, let me remind you that for the next six months , hungary will preside over europe, unfortunately, once again, and well, we already have problems, yes, we have had them, colleagues here, especially from humanitarian committee, i think that they can directly tell

in the roles that these problems were especially with hungary, well, we definitely don't need additional flights from them for... even if one of my colleagues, as i say, consumed some mushrooms there, which greatly affected their law-making potential, which resulted, unfortunately, in the , which we saw and thank god, today they withdrew it. well, i don’t know, to be honest, what kind of slobber is sergei demchenko, who last week declared that ukraine needs a dictatorship, and it also looks, well, strange, to say the least, because the deputy from the servant of the people says that that during the war, yes, i believe there is concentration in... the government, that we need a dictatorship, i understand that this threatens democracy, but when it all comes together in some puzzles, starting with the closing or switching off of three tv channels, including espresso, on which we are now talking, from t2 , and concluding with all these public statements, which are also monitored by the world community, as

yaroslav želiznyak rightly said, let us join the european union, let us contact the west. we are the states that are helping us now, when they hear this, well, obviously they have some kind of appropriate reaction, you, mr. nikita, are definitely you communicate with them a lot, including as the vice-president of the osce parliamentary assembly, here's what they tell you, come on, friends, i don't argue with what rostislav and yaroslav said now, because they also said, well , part of objectively, but i want to emphasize , colleagues, that our problems are not quite there, they are not in maryana, not in sergia, they are, in particular, in the law on religious organizations, which we will abandon, colleagues, maybe not, but this is our now the main problem is in the west, because that is where we are being attacked, no,

yaroslav, i know what i'm talking about, i know what i'm talking about, because sergey and i... have been talking about this for the past few weeks, yes, sergey, i'm not lying, so we have problems again started along the lines of the law on national minorities, there are already signals that , despite the fact that the law has been taken into account, there are already new claims regarding education, and regarding the status of national minorities there, and regarding the percentages there, which means that the settlement has to be... people so that the settlement is recognized where it is compact national cars live, everything is not over there at all. moreover, from time to time claims are denied. of the law on the media , specifically about the part that is dedicated to blocking those media that spread russian propaganda, then, friends, we have problems there

, where we adopted laws that are really aimed at protecting national security and defense and our national interests, their are attacking, and you and i know why, because it is these laws that prevent russia from defeating and occupying us. that's the problem, and yes, friends, you are right that such shameful stories that we are telling now, they do not improve our situation, but our main problems, so to speak, are not in these initiatives, they only create additional problems, to say that i am glad that in the european parliament is discussing these initiatives, no, i'm not happy, but that's not what worries me anymore, because pra... yaroslav said, they have already withdrawn, well, as you know, in that old joke about silver spoons, the spoons were found, the sediment remained, so that means , but the problem,

look friends, the problem is not that we now we are discussing, the problem is that we are being attacked on our original initiatives, that 's what it is, and this is only what i have listed that concerns my committee, and there are also your committees, and you know very well that... that there are directions in your committees where the russians and their henchmen are attacking, so yes, you are right, friends, this cannot be allowed, well, it can be condemned, i am not saying that i support it, and our party, perhaps, and the faction is the first to lose from this, because whoever loses, well, we lose, of course, ukraine loses, mr. mykyta, ukraine is losing, you understand, you are right, ukraine, parliament. in general , but first of all, our faction and party, well, we understand that, yes, but this, you know, is such additional trouble, because the main problems

are not in this, thank you, yaroslav wanted to say something, mr. yaroslav, look, well colleagues, we, you know, we are with you, i will give an allegory here, that there is mono, we say that it is necessary to either give up the roots, or to eat fast food at night, no, the correct answer is and... it is necessary to do it, unfortunately the passes we give, well, they don't improve the situation. what specifically on this, because well, i will say frankly that again, nikita is neither the head of the faction nor the head of the party, but the only correct way that was - the reflected normal reaction is simply dry enough from the factions or the party, that we are not we support this initiative, all of it would remove all the questions, i think that it would quickly er... it would erase the negativity regarding the issues that you mentioned, nikita, yes, well, here i think that there is no exactly opponents inside, and not always, our opponents,

unfortunately, are only in the east, because of that, what is coming to us on european integration from hungary is very unpleasant, but then again, i am here then on another topic, okay, we have a campaign on religious topics in the united states, and... where are our people's deputies who went to counties in the united states and talk to the religious church there, and they are not. shall i explain to you why? because the us embassy, ​​just recently, organized such a trip with its own money, and it was completely hacked in the president's office, because someone is afraid that some people's deputy is there, and there most of your colleagues, well, not even the opposition, one or two people from the faction there from the opposition, everyone else will come. will say something bad about some representatives of the authorities, who took over the american track and successfully lowered it - let's put it this way, this is exactly where

our deputies are now in the european parliament, well , we don't have a meeting now, in fact, let them do it they explain, okay, not deputies, i don’t know, ministers, not ministers, who do we have deputies at the advisers of the president’s office i don't know if the commandant of the president's office is there. let's send them , well, that is, people, well, this is parliament, this is diplomacy, which we have to do again, and this is important, but here we return to the curfew, oops, we again stumbled upon the nonsense that we invented, well, this is not glory god, not to the parliament building , but the whole country is suffering because of this , so once again, colleagues, there are various problems here, they are all there, i am grateful that everyone recognizes all this, but... once again there we need to give up the roots and not to eat fast food for the night, no, we are not choosing some stupid connection there, thank you, mr. yaroslavek

, for a short reply. i wanted to say that i am ready to give absolutely any of my business trips abroad, and even five, so that people who can represent our point of view in the states go, but you are not the office of the president, so you have nothing to do with it, speaker of the parliament , the delegation must have had rostislav pavlenko, who as one of the best lawyers can be of our policy in this sense, i didn't know that, yaroslav, and well, well, it's a shame, a shame to me. hear, but again i say that, well, even though i am one of the authors of the law and the chairman of the committee, i am ready, i say, to give up many of my own in order to be a lawyer, to advocate, i apologize, this law and other laws in europe and the united states, i will hope that the office of the president of ukraine will definitely monitor our broadcast and they will definitely look if in...

t2 and they suddenly don't see us, well , they turned it off, just they don't see us, then i think that our conversation will definitely appear in the monitoring, they will read about it, as well as about what do you think, gentlemen, about the latest personnel rotations in the power bloc, today oleksiy danilov, who will now obviously be engaged in diplomacy, as they write, he will possibly be the ambassador to norway from ukraine, well, at least oleksiy goncharenko wrote about it, zelenskyi said about that , that danilov will have another. direction of work, but he will work for ukraine, oleksandr lytvynenko was changed to oleksiy danilov, and instead of oleksandr, oleksandr, forgive me. already, already, already from these rotations, to be honest, i have butterflies in my head, yes, lytvynenko, oleksandr litvinenko will be accompanied by budanov's deputy, who will be in charge.

service or the old foreign intelligence service, but obviously all these rotations also mean something, let's explain to our tv viewers what exactly is changing in this situation and whether this is the great conclusion of these great personnel disturbances that began on february 8, when almost the entire power block was simply reassigned and reassigned, mr. rostyslav, well, you know, i think that not much will change in this context, i think that there might just be a little less interview with the post of secretary of the national security council and a little less generation of such unexpected images and who wore what shirt before a full-scale invasion or handing out assessments to international figures there, representatives of asian countries or china or others, that is , i think that what our citizens will see is rather leads to even greater media coverage

of this position. and as for everything else, i think that everything will remain as it is, here you show well in the video series, here is the meeting of this national security council, i think that simply the influence of the office of the president, his leadership, de facto only will intensify, that is, it seems to me that everything will be limited to this, but literally with your permission, literally in two sentences, because the previous topic was also very important, and unfortunately, these personnel changes will not affect it in any way, but in vain. because in order to overcome those attacks that are coming, which will obviously be in the course of our european euro-atlantic integration, we must not create problems ourselves, what problems? it is very clearly described to us in the evaluation, in the report of the european commission, which, by the way, says both about the disconnection of the channels and the need pluralism in the parliament, and the need to hear the voice of the opposition, we

were told something there as well. of the resolution of the european parliament, which directly states exactly what both nikita recognized and yaroslav rozlyo described, when deputies from the opposition are not allowed in first of all, and we, and the european parliament has already written to us about this, must use all our forces, and when the european council decided to start negotiations, it said that parliamentary democracy, in general, democracy in ukraine is very important, and it is precisely from this point of view that we would still expect personnel decisions, so far... we do not see such, thank you, mr. yaroslav, how do you evaluate these personnel changes, because in principle, apparently, oleksiy danilo was alone from the few in zelensky's entourage, who was with him for 4.5 years, starting from october 2019, and this is one of those high-ranking officials who was in the power bloc,

and who changed him, starting from two.