good evening, we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours , we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. today in the program. critical phase until september. western analysts speculate on how events will unfold on the front, whether there are any chances of ending the war in ukraine already this year. putin's propaganda on the blood of those killed in crocus. lukashenko denied the russian version about the terrorists' intention to flee to ukraine. who can believe the kremlin? to protect ukraine from butcher putin. biden is looking for alternative sources of funding. how long will the us congress be blocked? military

aid to ukraine. we will talk about this and other things for the next hour with our guests roman kostenko, ivan stupak and oleksandr kraev. the second part of our program will feature political experts oleksiy holobutskyi and viktor boberenko. however , before starting our big conversation, let's watch a video of how the defense forces destroyed the enemy command and observation post on the left bank of the dnieper, it was discovered by the fighters of the first separate battalion of the marine corps. let's see how it was.

friends, during the broadcast we are conducting a survey, today we are asking you about whether it is necessary to strengthen the responsibility for corruption during the war, if you watch us on youtube, please ...

vote with the button either yes or no if you are sitting in front tv and watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think accountability for wartime corruption should be strengthened 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382, all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. we have our first guest on the phone, this is roman kostenko, people's deputy of ukraine. colonel of the security service of ukraine, secretary of the verkhovna rada committee on national security, defense and intelligence. mr. colonel, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. good evening. mr. colonel, let's start with the situation in kharkiv, since we see how the enemy is trying to hit the city en masse. today , the russians struck kharkiv with guided aerial bombs, the first time since the beginning of the full-scale invasion. the authorities

report one dead and 19 wounded , among them are children, which, mr. colonel , is the reason why the russian occupiers are so actively trying to attack kharkiv now, they are preparing for an attack on kharkiv oblast, they are making some efforts to , so that people flee from the city, that is, what is their logic, if you can? to explain, well, i wouldn't get attached only to kharkiv, of course, the russians were left to complain about kharkiv, and they consider the fact that they did not take over as another defeat, especially since the kharkiv operation knocked them out of the kharkiv region in general, and this is also a big defeat for them, but the russians, they are striking now on the entire front, and the avdiiv operation, in particular, which for the first time, for the first time in the entire war, as i... think

, showed that russia is superior in the air due to the lack of a counterattack, or there due to insufficiently incorrect placement of it , because time has changed a little there, and we saw such a summer was added, and the enemy, seeing now that he could create superiority in the air, using , among other things, deadly kap bombs, began to use them en masse, both on the kherson, and on the zaporizhia, and on the donetsk, and on the kharkiv directions, and in sumy, in sumy, this is a cheap way for them to launch missiles and create an advantage at the expense of planes, they use this advantage, then, of course, you need to understand that this may be followed by some operations, i am not saying that tomorrow they will attack to kharkiv, but the fact that they are now using aerial bombs and airplanes shows that they, let's say, well, in particular

, are preparing bridgeheads for themselves there in the eastern direction, so it is necessary to understand that we must do everything to give this advantage to the enemy remove, and this is only the presence... mr. colonel, russian medusa writes that the russian so-called political elites do not rule out that russia and its ruler putin will try to seize kharkiv and gradually end the so-called svo, or he is ready to go to victorious, even before kyiv, however, the ministry of defense of great britain insists that the plans of the russian federation to create two new armies already this year will collide with a lack of new equipment and problems with infrastructure. i wonder to what extent the problems that the british are talking about can hinder these plans of putin. look, we don't see that putin will stop, we see that they are developing their defense-industrial complex, yes, at some stage it can reach, let's say,

its peak of development and will simply generate what it can at his peak, but putin is developing it, it does not show that putin is going to stop there somewhere. on those frontiers, on which he is, and conduct a simple positional war. we see that the defense-industrial complex is developing, we see that new armies are being formed, even new districts, and if you ask my opinion, i will say that i think putin is at least targeting the entire south, the donetsk region, luhansk within its borders, and i do not exclude kharkiv, so i think that this is a minimum program for putin, this is a fact, and they will... prepare their economy for it and to prepare their allies, in addition to their defense industrial complex, we see that they are fueled by their allies, who, unfortunately, are sometimes more decisive in the supply of weapons and their nomenclature, this is

iran, the same, this is north korea, and other countries that they secretly supply, if not weapons, then very important components for it... with the help of which the russians make missiles, including missiles, and the fact that there, let's say, some special bodies report that their missile production even exceeded the pre-war level , it's a fact, we we have to reckon with it, i'm not saying now that we will lose there or something, now everything depends on that, now we are at the moment, i consider parity with us with interception in most directions of the initiative by... nobody, but this is not the initiative , where they have broken through the front and are advancing in wide columns, the question is that somewhere they prevail in artillery, in the number of shells, somewhere they conduct more active actions, so i believe that if europe now gives us the amount of ammunition and increases

the barrels, the united states still will stop playing politics and give us ammunition, help, let's say, in the amount we need, then we can really equalize. to take the initiative away from them or at least create parity, mr. colonel, the german newspaper dievelt came out with an article, and the germans predict that the war in ukraine may end this year, the german publication gives several key theses regarding possible options for the development of events: first, hostilities are likely will freeze, secondly, without a pause, later neither the russian federation nor ukraine will have advantages on the battlefield. third, the armed forces have no prospects of returning the lost lands in the 24th year, on the contrary, we should expect new russian offensives and losses of ukrainian territory. fifth, the russian federation is trying to break through the first line of defense of the armed forces in 18 places, but

the second and third lines are much weaker, so the risk of the enemy advancing deep into the country is great. sixth: the west did not underestimate the military potential of the russian federation, there are enough resources there. to fight for a few more years, and seventh, a critical phase awaits ukraine until september, if the event is not done promptly will transfer more weapons as much as there is , mr. colonel, this presentation is fair and the main conclusions are drawn from those data and those facts that the germans provide, look, well, i think they have taken all possible options, to say that some option is unrealistic, and i cannot to say, all options can happen, but certain events must occur for this, yes, if our partners do not give us weapons, anything can happen, because yes, the enemy can break through the first line, if we do not have any weapons, the question is what will he break through at the front? we can show an example of work, but we also broke through the first line of defense, for example, at

a width of 9 km and a depth of nine, what did it give us, nothing, we entered, the enemy is on the heights and does not allow us to advance further, and now we have a decision will be made, it has long been made, it's just that no one wants to accept it, or expand this, let's say, this line of breakthrough, or withdraw troops from there, because, well, further actions are needed, serious ones are needed. until the decision is made, and here the question is when we talk about the breakthrough of russia, like it breakthrough, on the front 100 km, 20 km, or 9 km, this is already a question, and each point, of course, it has the right to be, but for this the conditions must be met, this is a question, if we are given all the weapons that are promised, we are financed, as promised, europe understands further what needs to be done and not said, this is one story, there are many negative options that can be excluded, if of course they are all concoctions. turns away from us, they block our borders, and the neighboring state calmly looks at this,

we have a failed mobilization there, other problems, then of course we can expect negative consequences, but now the task of the state, the task of everyone, is to do everything so that we do not have these negative consequences, everything is going well for us, last year we won back, i think in our favor, because we were defeated high potential of the enemy, now ... the main thing is not to let the enemy continue to dominate in the air, for this you need to strengthen air defense, and intercept the artillery initiative, all other actions will work out, can we do it, intercept the initiative without intercepting the initiative, it is difficult some active actions in general ee to predict. a few days ago, colonel, a russian missile flew for 39 seconds into the territory of the polish state. the pentagon has already announced that the united states of america is ready to fulfill its obligations to protect nato, including those related to russian missile

attacks that could threaten poland. at the same time, deputy minister of foreign affairs of poland andrzej sheyna said in an interview with rmf fm radio that nato is considering the option of shooting down russian missiles when they fly towards the territories of the north atlantic alliance. let's listen to what mr. sheina said. so, nato is analyzing. different concepts, in particular, that such missiles should be shot down when they are already very close to the nato border, but this should happen with the consent of the ukrainian side, taking into account the international consequences. nato missiles would then hit russian missiles outside the treaty's territory. mr. colonel, how likely is it that the anti-aircraft defense stationed in poland, which is part of the north atlantic alliance, will work in favor of ukraine. including protecting part of the western ukrainian region states, this is taking into account the fact that the poles block

and do not give us the opportunity even for our defense complex to sometimes import goods that are very valuable for us, very much disappoint us, let's say neighbors, who during the war, started so well, started so well, and now we see what we are talking about, the rockets are already flying. to their territory, yes, they say, well, it’s not ours, it’s ukraine, so we can wait, of course, this is a bad story and a story that does not add, let’s say, respect from our side to these statements and statements, and this, as cherchel said, to feed the crocodile, in the hope that he will be the last to attack you, and so this is to be afraid of compromising russia when they are already launching their missiles, so we remember that the moves flew by. to the territory of romania, if i am not mistaken, now missiles, then there was a break , several missiles have actually arrived, but

decisions have not been made, i will say that this would be a very good reason for our partners, for the poles, not that, well, first , put patriots along the border there, because they have much more of them, unlike us, and as i said before that it could be a reason to put at all on the territory. ukraine's own divisions under the pretext that they protect both ukrainian skies from strikes on civilian infrastructure and their, er, european, nato skies, this is their right, and they have it. the right to do it, i say that it’s just their divisions, let them have an algorithm for how they use them, but it can be done, so of course they don’t make these decisions now, but i think it’s time to talk about it speak, colonel yesterday, the russian security forces talked a lot about our leaders of the special services and about malyuk and about

budanov, about the fact that they are involved there in the so-called terrorist activities against... they initiated a criminal case and there is already some kind of arrest, the basman court, this the fanatic decided, regarding budanov, they said that he is a legitimate target there in order to hit and kill him, what do you predict, that is the anti-ukrainian hysteria that has been going on for the last few days around the terrorist attack in crocus, what do you think , er... she will have its consequences for the development of events on the territory of the ukrainian state, or the idol, who took responsibility for this, will continue to confirm its involvement in another way on the territory of the russian state, and in such a way that the russian security forces simply will not have time to react to all this, focusing on the ukrainian issue, well, for

the kid and for budanov, this is another recognition, i think what the kid did... a gift to putin on his birthday, then to putin, i think, if you take it for putin, this terrorist attack is a crocus, which he is trying to turn, including on our special services, and the bridge, which is simply , let's say, considered his brainchild, which he tried to present as a monument to himself there, i think that he would be ready for the baby to announce and , let's say, you want him, that's why these officers and generals have already proven everything, and i think, just like budanov and malyuk, it's normal, during the war they are legitimate goals for the russian federation, so is patrushov and other representatives of special services are our legitimate targets, and i think our special services are also in are working in this direction, and they, i kid

, can meet somewhere on the street more often than i think and the same budanov than i think... somewhere in russia , representatives of their special services are sitting in a bunker, so this, as far as our heads of special services are concerned, that refers to her terrorist attack directly in krokos, i think that the russians, regardless of who did this terrorist attack, was there, it was the fsb, putin, declaring someone a terrorist , should remember how he and patrish blew up houses in order to solve the chechen campaign followed by the second, if i'm not mistaken, it was eh... they just buried their own under the rubble of their own citizens, and they will definitely use it, no matter who did it, they will use it against ukraine, they have already done it, they are now shouting to the whole world that it was a terrorist attack, demanding sympathy for himself, on the same day russian missile launchers hit civilian homes in

ukraine, so putin himself is a terrorist and he will be responsible for these terrorist acts that he ... it is our job to protect our state and do more , so that, let's say, bridges were burning, the fleet was sinking and burning oil refineries and anything and everything that works for the war in russia against us. another ally of putin, the self-proclaimed president of belarus, alexander lukashenko, during his stay at the border area where the combat readiness of the troops is being checked, ordered not to deal with border violators and to destroy them. let's listen to what lukashenko said. they understood that it is not possible to enter belarus, because in the first minutes, as russia transferred the regions to an enhanced security regime, so did we. in the first minutes , the head of the kgb reported to me that he is busy anti-terrorist measures. that's it, we

have prepared our units for the combat situation. therefore, they could not enter belarus. they saw this, so they turned away and went to the ukrainian-russian border area. well, it’s a little bit wrong , we gave the wrong timing, but he said that i will say publicly, any provocation must be stopped by armed means, there is nothing to joke with them, they have violated the state border to the point of destruction, no one should hold a ceremony with anyone , we will do it anyway, because if we live snot, then they know what will therefore any violation. the state border, for destruction, they understand only force, so who, to whom does lukashenko turn in general, that is, he thinks that the republic of belarus is threatened by something? i... i think that he , i think he 's talking to himself, he's convincing himself that, well, if he's talking to the baltic countries, which are members of nato, then i think belarus is not

the army that that can threaten there, and the russian army is now completely engaged in fighting with us, and any, i don't know, individual soldier, they in order to distinguish him somewhere between belarus, it is necessary, i think, to weaken something somewhere, and everyone understands that, so i think that he is talking to himself, and... and trying to show there that he has a rather serious army, first of all we know that belarus is a country that transferred more, first of all, gave its territories to the use of a foreign army, this already speaks of the loss of sovereignty, if he did not bask there, but rather his full sovereignty, he sold his sovereignty , changed its sovereignty, with the russian federation, which now affects the them and many tanks, artillery, firing ranges were handed over to the russian federation, so now you are writing for destruction, well, everyone understands what modern war is, i think that

no one takes belarus seriously without russia. mr. colonel, how do you assess the possibility that belarus and russia can go back to breaking through this suval corridor between belarus and kaliningrad, and enter after all that... break through this corri-corridor, because this fragment of the video that we saw it was just on the border between belarus and lithuania, and lukashenko dressed up, you see, he had some shoots, some camouflage, look, we are not ruling it out now, yes, the world has moved in a different direction, we see, russia has shown that it is possible to solve issues by military means, and the world... has not yet fully recovered and we see with the help that is coming to us and the delays, the russians see that there is no complete and clear answer to this, that

you can pull there, you can stretch what you gave in ether, that you can, in them there are enough resources, so look, they have to understand one thing, if ukraine loses, if they will not help us, then what you say is quite real, because russia understands, they also have analysts, and if nato enters the war, for example, over some small baltic countries, we well, this already happened during the second world war, you remember, then there was also , let's say, the league of nations and other issues that guaranteed something to someone, but they closed their eyes to poland, they closed their eyes to czechoslovakia at that time, and and to lithuania, latvia, estonia, although for poland then we remember which ones the guarantees were very serious, and as a result , what this led to is that now europe has the opportunity to step on the same game. and only the fact that ukraine contacted itself , it is meant, began to resist and got involved and did not give russia the opportunity

to advance and carry out the operations that it wanted, now it gives them the opportunity to behave like this, in a different situation, i i am sure, they would have already been in hostilities, or they would have told each other why it is necessary to resolve all this peacefully and to agree not to occupy some of the baltic countries there. it is a fact we understand that, it's just that someone doesn't want to admit it. thank you, colonel, for the conversation, it was roman kostenko, colonel of the security service of ukraine, people's deputy of ukraine. friends, we are working live on the tv channel, as well as on our platforms, on youtube and facebook, and during this broadcast we are conducting a survey, we are asking you about whether it is necessary to strengthen responsibility for corruption during the war. everything is quite simple on youtube, yes, no, if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone. or phones and vote if you think there should be increased responsibility for corruption during the war (0800-211-381), no (0800-211-382), all calls to these numbers are

free, vote, at the end of the program we will match here are the results of this vote. next , we are in touch with ivan stupak, military expert, former employee of the security service of ukraine. mr. ivan, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. congratulations to the studio, thank you for inviting me. so, mr. ivan, russia is to blame. ukraine in involvement in terrorism and to the commission of a terrorist attack in the suburbs of moscow in the step of city hall, what consequences this may have for ukraine, russia's attempt to transfer from a healthy head, or from a sick head to a healthy one and stand in front of the world in the role of a victim, and ukraine, to ukraine to say that she is the aggressor, ukraine, they. they want to turn ukraine into a terrorist country, a terrorist, here everyone likes the ending, that's all that ukraine is, it bombards civilian cities

of the russian federation with shelling. the civilian population is being terrorized, and the main goal is to deprive ukraine of western aid, that is in general, political, diplomatic , economic, financial, and the most important thing is that the last thing is that the ammunition does not go to ukraine, and then everything will turn out much better for russia, they are ready to put not 130 people for this purpose, but 1300, 13 thousand russians, i wish them on this, well , they can put 400,000 people, how will they do it. well, of course, russia is the number one terrorist country and putin is the number one terrorist in the world, and this has already been officially recorded, since he is the only president in the world who has an international criminal court warrant for his arrest and in fact, he is only waiting for his arrest, but at the same time, this version, which was built by putin

together with bortnikov and various... there are patrushevs about the fact that ukraine has relations, that there was some kind of window, opportunities for these terrorists to come to ukraine, of course , this is a complete delusion and, by the way, this was confirmed by the belarusian dictator oleksandr lukashenko, who completely refuted this version of the russians, that they wanted to cross the russian-ukrainian border so that they would come russian-belarusian, let's listen to what lukashenko said. to enter belarus you can't, because in the first minutes, as russia transferred the regions to the enhanced security regime, so did we. in the first minutes , the head of the kgb reported to me that he is engaged in anti-terrorist measures. that's it, we have prepared our units for the combat situation. that's why they couldn't enter belarus, they saw it, so they turned away and went to the

ukrainian-russian section of the border. it is absolutely obvious that for the united states of america, for great britain, for other countries that have good intelligence, including good special services, this is what putin and his team say, what the separatists say, in principle it looks like delusion, and for whom it can be an argument, so for countries that take... an openly pro-russian position, an anti-western position, i am not saying already about ukraine, there they can treat ukraine in different ways, here the main confrontation is along the line, the countries of the west and all the rest of the countries that do not support the western countries, for them, for example, venezuela, iran, north korea, well, i am very surprised, why kimchynin's sister has not made any statement yet, and the russian propaganda machine has yet

to cite what it condemns. a criminal terrorist attack by ukraine, western special services, despite the fact that the united states reported more than, well, almost three weeks ago, two weeks, which will happen, two weeks later, they reported that there was such a danger, but something i did not laughed at, they were offended , they said, in this way you are trying to disrupt our elections, you are trying to manipulate, well , in general, you are carrying a sword, well, okay, a little more than two weeks have passed there, and immediately accusations of another person were made. "you are bad we were warned, we should have been warned better." and now look at what an interesting story: if the united states had not made this information public, then after this terrorist attack, the russian federation, i don't know what it was doing, would have torn itself apart and screamed , that the west didn't warn them, and any evidence from the united states that we sent you. the russians are saying, 'no, you didn't

send anything, you're behind these' terrorist attacks and so on and so forth, by the way, the spokesman matthew miller of the state department of the united states of america denies the statement of the head of the service of the federal security service of the russian federation oleksandr bortnikov that apparently ukraine, the united states of america, and great britain were involved in this terrorist attack. let's hear what he says. we have made it clear that there is no evidence that... ukraine was involved in this, because ukraine was not involved in this. i would say that these comments by russian officials, including president putin, are nothing more than propaganda to justify their continued aggression against ukraine. it is absolutely obvious that in this story cont.