had the opportunity to lend to small businesses, but then when small businesses started to get on their feet there, they laughed that they all started paying social tax, voluntary social tax, and this voluntary social tax, that was what helped it all grow . the ukrainian secret university is a phenomenal story of an institution that relied solely on the payments of people like us as volunteers. payments, yes, which were scattered there, this is an amazing story about a ukrainian secret university, unfortunately, not so with us there is a lot of time to talk about it, but if you could in a few words, i am sure that many people do not know about the ukrainian secret university, if you could tell literally a few words to say, because i understand that in the ukrainian secret university novakivskyi also headed the department, so painting, so it is called,

yes, yes, in fact, in fact, the story was such that first he became a professor of the kyiv academy of arts, and as a professor of the kyiv academy of arts, he became a co-founder of the ukrainian secret university , yes, that is, he teaches here, what years are these, come on, let's say what year it is, what year it is, the kyiv academy, the kyiv academy - that's pymonenko right there, that's right, malevich will come soon to teach there, right there ... cubofuturism, all these processes are taking place, the ukrainian revolution and everything, and novakivskyi is coming there, he did not come, as far as i understand, he did not come, but there was a very close exchange, they came to lviv, and only to him and for example there later at his school even, well , it was also in a secret university, its school was later taught by just a part of those people who came to it from central ukraine, there was a little place, after all.

yes, well, for example, i was not surprised, vrony taught screenwriting at this school , and peter kholodny, he came to study his own, precisely sacred art, ugh, and the relationship, it seems to me, is also an unexplored story, as far as these relations in general influenced the way the partnership between the university of ukraine and zunr was built, but i am sure that it was the relations of the kyiv academy and a secret university, and a secret university and this in general. environment, and if it was mixed, mixed, something that was not just galicia, or just kharkiv, or just kyiv, but it was these mixed environments that allowed them to communicate with each other and build human, human good relations, let's finish all the same about a secret university, it was, it was really secret, so hundreds and hundreds of people studied there, the polish authorities persecuted, and yet it functioned, and yet, and yet it was, so eh... well, let's start from the fact that

that it actually just started with the fact that right after the treaty of versailles, the rules for minorities were changed there, there was a ukrainian minority in lviv, such a very minority, and also a rather passive minority, and in fact it was forbidden to teach in the ukrainian language at the university of lviv, and the students left in protest, then the professor supported it, because they were also forbidden to... teach in ukrainian, and it was, in essence, an act of protest, if so briefly, an act of protest, when they singled out and created specifically for contributions, voluntary voluntary, civic contributions, they made this university, they hid for several years in a row, they were really, they were followed and followed there by the local police, their own , and there were inspections, and this was in different places and in apartments. and in

st. george's cathedral, and somewhere else in the novakivskyi school, which actually was part of this university, which was located in the building that is now opposite the sabbath, the cathedral of george, where there is now a memorial museum, and there, too, exactly meetings were held, and meetings, and learning, and this place was given there for this university to exist, it's amazing, to me, it's just an amazing story about about a secret university and... about how, is there any memory of what it was for for oleks novakivskyi, that is, how, how he spoke about it, that it was for the secret university i did not find, i cannot say, but that it was very important for him, he was, he saw himself as a guide for youth, according to sheptytsky, according to his reviews, i understand that he was not just a guide, he was a role model, that is, he is a person who as a self... man he was able to make himself and

he was able to be ukrainian, he chose to be ukrainian, he was able to be influential, the media wrote about him all over europe. at that time he was actually successful financially, ugh , and uh, well, he was also a creator, he was an artist, and to be a successful ukrainian artist before him was almost unrealistic, he essentially set up the creative industry, the beginning of the creative industry, because he showed that you can make money not only from pictures, but you can to make money there on postcards, on caricatures , and that’s what they did with the students, it’s actually one story, another story, when after the plein airs they returned, they made small exhibitions in the cities, and you could come and choose for yourself there the paintings you want, and in this way they were engaged in education in small

towns so that those who belong to the auto business also raise their level of beauty and aesthetics a little, understanding what aestheticism is, please tell me who of famous artists graduated from the novakivska school, who, who do we know, well , well, i'll just name a few names there, and this, we can say, mir, this is roman selsky, and, actually, he is not so direct that he studied for a long time, but he started with the fact that he went through corrections, and then he stayed, sviatoslav gordynskyi. and this is a very famous artist, writer and poet, and this is also such a vivid story of how the youth actually developed around novakivsky in this environment, because it was not only about art, and we can say, although i know

that there is a controversial issue, but yakov hnizdovsky, this is one of the most famous ukrainian artists in the american field, his painting. hung in the white house, and he was also a researcher of art, and an artist, and myron lev -levinsky, exactly these, well, he is also a very famous artist who developed, how independent, independent such in painting, very interesting, bright he had such a path and it was very successful, edward kozak, it's actually just interesting what he took. this line is caricature and this is what he created and used very well, i think now, you lists, i think, how many of these people ended up abroad, that is, how much ukraine spent, how many artists, not, but

how many of its citizens who have, but how strong the school should have been and how strong this impulse to be ukrainian should have been. that all of them left the signature of a ukrainian, they left the signature of a ukrainian, that is, there is an american, of ukrainian origin, a canadian of ukrainian origin, and i will also ask you, you mentioned that what, but do i understand correctly that this villa wonderful, where, where later i went to the museum and it is, yes novakivskyi, sheptytskyi gave it to novakivskyi, no. not true, oh my god, such a beautiful story, many, many myths , well, first of all, i don’t say, i don’t support, i wouldn’t say, i don’t support, i would finance from the point of view, yes, vila, actually, exactly, this villa, it was actually excavated

by sheptytskyi, but also donated, but not to novakivskyi, but donated to the ukrainian national museum, which he created. yes, of course, and novakivskyi paid for the school, well, that is, for this premises for the school, and for the accommodation that was there next to him, he paid, he paid with his paintings, and this was one of the reasons why he had a very close relationship with the museum, and he never once in his life had a personal exhibition in lviv, not once, because actually it was svintsitsky who was invited by sheptytsky to ... director of the museum, he tried, well, as an enterprising man, he tried to constantly lower the price of paintings, and since novakivskyi knew what he was for, well, that is, it was his opportunity to keep the price and live on it, and besides, to live, well, to maintain a school as well, because

very often it happened that those who came there, they came, er, well, let's put it this way, it was often a story when novakivskyi fed there. and provided, and were , were, were different, and therefore it was important for him, and his, his paintings were expensive, and he kept this brand of expensive painting, but at the same time, if he did not keep this brand of expensive painting, then his students would would also not have become those successful and could not feel that the painting can be sold expensively, listen, and what does it mean when diana kolychko says that novakivskyi the most expensive ukrainian artist , what does she mean, and i mean exactly this, that in his time, what he put up as a price for paintings, it was really very high, it was very high. a very important topic that you and i haven't touched on yet, but which interests me terribly, is

your relationship with your great-grandfather, so it 's not easy for you at all, this initiative of yours , novakivskyi space, and in general your interest and your work, it's not easy, this is your family history, uh, when, when did you start relationship with novakivskyi, how did you find out about it, and in general, do you have any... personal, do you have any family stories, yes , stories about him, or all that you know is mostly from the biography, actually already written, do you have any family stories about him? ah, well, first of all, it must be said that a lot of information was hidden and kept secret, because, as i said, sheptytskyi was not a patron, he was... very friendly to novakivskyi to such an extent, that is , they were patronizing, and so much so

that when novakivsky was gone, that ptytsky actually adopted his children, well, and it was simply impossible for the soviet authorities, and that's why i think that he hid a large amount of information precisely so that he could not, well, let's say, protect us children there. and who grew up in this family, ugh, and was hidden by someone, let's say, yours, your parents, or your parents' parents, eh, well, well , we knew, well, about who the great-grandfather was, we knew, because i i grew up among the paintings of my grandmother, but, well, it is also necessary to realize that the museum is a memorial, it was created by my grandfather, with a very interesting story. because he first wrote to unesco and convinced unesco that they should make a year

of novakivskyi, and then he returned to the lviv authorities and said that, well, look, the year of novakivskyi is in unesco, it must somehow be highlighted there as 100 years of novakivskyi, and signed up to the fact that he will make the first exhibition and the family will invest in it, that is, in essence, the museum is there, it is he, it is a big contribution, a big investment of my grandfather and... so it is clear that behind this story and we there was an understanding of who is an artist, and which ones paintings, that he was of great importance for the country, but what importance was not unpacked, was not unpacked, and for me, in fact , there is also such a story that and the second such a little touch to the history of his school happened through my father and... who headed the national museum , he headed it in the late 80s, your father is an architect, he is an architect-restorer, and

a lot of what tourists see now in lviv, such as a pharmacy, a museum, or the actual arsenal, is what his, well, it it is his, his work, and most of the buildings on the square market, and by the way, my grandfather, he saved a part of lviv from destruction, because... there was an idea of ​​replanning lviv approximately as it was in kyiv in the area of ​​st. michael's cathedral. that is, this is the son of oleksa novakiv, the son of oleks novakivskyi, yes. uhu, and then and then your father is the grandson of oleks novakivskyi. yes, yes, as a grandson, he , yes, he, as a grandson, when he became the director of the national museum, he began to establish contacts with students and give back, that is, through him i understood what the school was and who were its students. ugh. actually, i am because of him i started somehow to touch on it

, to research it, but unfortunately, his story with the national museum ended very sadly . party slander , a case was opened against him, he won the court, but he didn't want to return to the museum, and actually just that... well, this is actually not the beginning of independence, but with the beginning of independence we know, just like the fate of chornovol, we we understand that... the appearance of a person who was for independence, well, there is an interesting point that , for example, he, this is my father, was the person who ensured that the national museum was located in the premises where the lenin museum used to be, and near the opera house, now everyone knows this, that it is a national museum, yes, but when dad raised this issue,

everyone in lviv was afraid to solve it, but fate had its way. it is so simply mythical and mystical that gorbachev, who was supposed to go to one city there, ended up in lviv, raisa maximin had to be entertained, and my father just as if he took her to funds and after that gave permission for the premises of the lenin museum to be transferred to this project, but now you will not read about my father anywhere, precisely because he was erased from history, er, because of this history, because of this one. there was a conflict with the transfer of the icons, he refused to transfer the icons, because a quick transfer would mean destruction, and he did not want to do it, but someone really needed to do them quickly, and there were others, well, one can feel the family family such a character, i actually want to ask to return to oleks navakivskyi, to ask about his

character and his eccentricity, i heard and read a lot about the fact that he was an eccentric, that he was... an eccentric and even a poser, that he could invent some things about himself, let's say that he sleeps for an hour or two a day, about his chinese origin, maybe it's true, i don't know, about the fact that he tripled with paints and so on, that is, tell me about it, well, about the chinese the truth is, well, as far as i followed there, i really didn't do dna, i think it's necessary to do, listen, i would have done it a long time ago in your place, what about you? as possible, but even just by appearance you can understand that there are these roots there, and he actually brought orientalism into school as an interest, and he was also very interested in the topic of japonism all his life, and that is, for him, it is so very important a person who created himself in

art, he was no less successful there than vorhol, but he at... perfectly created his legend as an artist, he certainly had an incredible talent, they say that he really, he had a direct a certain gift magical, he gave, well, for sure we understand that he had the gift of a visionary, well, but besides all that, it was precisely the gift of seeing people there, of manifesting in some way that he had this kind of very amazing if the story of a clairvoyant, a clairvoyant, let’s say so, and... on the one hand, on the other hand, this incredible talent, the students said that he had leonardo between his fingers, and, comparing him with the ninth, well , all the time when they took him to italy, he was looking at michelangelo , said that here he is, here he is his teacher, yes, that is, in in principle, this is a person who

was really very good at managing what he had, these characteristics of him, as a person, he... really unpacked as talents, as talents you and sometimes manipulated, of course, if he had them if the story with the stick, although he really had periods of prolonged hunger there, and this hunger then affected his health, he lay there for a long time straight and could not get up because of it, but there were periods when he threw the stick and when inspired could run, move and, but... when he mentioned no-no, let's you carry me, support me, yes, well, it was she who immediately remembered parajanov and his eccentricities, yes, this is also true, he was very lively, bright, and that's why i followed him young people were drawn to him, i can see even from his self-portraits and his photographs that he was an extremely charismatic person, that is

, he used it, he used it, we have everything we can. for a moment, i want to ask more about interpretations, i am very interested in this cycle awakening so, which is talked about a lot, there is a clothed girl standing against the background of some kind of icon or crucifix, so this is only one work, and the naked girl is the same, there is a lot in the cycle, for example, i say more for example, yes. yes, i mean the cycle, and very often we are told that it symbolizes the awakening of ukraine, and that 's it for me, for me it sounds very somehow unconvincing. because actually this girl, anna maria palmovska, she will be a 16-year-old girl, so polish, actually, a child

, a child, you, you better tell about it now, yes, a 16-year-old child whom he drew, and she will become his wife, yes, and this interpretation seems unconvincing to me, unconvincing, did he say it himself somewhere, or where did it come from, that this is the awakening of ukraine? uh, well, first of all, who was this child, tell me, please, the first thing i want to say is that there was not only a child, it is a certain cycle, from which we actually, when diana klitschko and i talked, it ends with the last the work of having mercy, uh, in my mind it's a very connected cycle that's basically about growing up and about what needs to be done, what choices need to be made in this growing up, and in order to... balance freedom and carelessness with responsibility and transformation, and that is, it is interesting that the last work itself, it is the mother of mercy, not

love , and mercy is when i accept without question and this is the level of the master, ah, this work really, it started with the spending of my great-grandmother, who really when she was orphaned, my great-grandfather took her into custody and then married . it was an incredible couple in love people who had the opportunity to live in love, unlike many others who did it out of obligation, got married like that, at the same time this cycle, it has many images, and in particular it is very clear yellow-blue elements of a woman who at a certain moment, well that is, there are even those that slightly resemble the symbol of the french revolution, and if this is a rebirth of birth. and in this cycle there are a lot of what-if stories, and stories about the fact that it will be from the dungeon, uh, that first you have to go down into the dungeon, from

the dungeon, then when the same you will already be to be considered dead, that is where the birth will take place, and this is the myth of demeter, which he also, from there he mixes it up, and, that is, that ukraine has its own period of spring, when it can... bloom and take its place, but if we are not enough growing up at this point, she 's going to have to go back to hell again, and have to go back to the underworld again and die spectacularly, see, it's a good thing i asked that, because the meaning is much deeper and much broader than it's often interpreted, and in fact, you yourself have already led to a wonderful logical conclusion. yes, and, i, i warned you that i would ask about the last phrase he said to golubovsky before he died, nothing dies,

what does that mean? oh, what does that mean to you? i think that, ah, it is very much about that, even now i will take a step back, but nothing can be my property. nothing is under my control, and once i realize that even there is a collection that i have, it's not under my control, it's something i can share, something i share. for the great-grandfather, it was a story, that's what he recognized, he got to know this secret about art, what it is, that it is a gift of god, and it is a purpose, and it cannot be, it cannot be. to be finite on you, it can be passed on, and the more you , as a master, can pass it on, the more likely it will be to live,

will live on, and at the same time this, actually just life, life on, regardless i don't know whether they are ready to celebrate any dates related to novokivskyi in lviv or not , it's about the fact that he will live anyway. then he will move on, yes just as we talked with malevich, whether we are ready to admit that he taught and had his school or not, but he will live on, and for me the fact that his paintings appeared this year in belvedere, they returned to europe where in fact, they were exhibited, where there was recognition, although i would say that the selection of paintings, well, the one that went was not the best, but it is also about the fact that it is not, it is not final , it is also the story, you can unpack further and tell further, depending on how ready you are to approach of this material and know, as we now know ourselves because of this war, we discover

a lot about ourselves. what's new? thanks to dzvenislav, dzvenislav novakivska, the great-granddaughter of oleks novakivsky and the founder of novakivskyi space, was my guest today. thank you for being with us. these are proper names. i 'll see you in a week. thank you. tired of heavy and bulky saws? then pilka strong from razpak tv is just for you. with it you can easily cut trees and bushes. it is so convenient to use it for carpentry. it is the perfect tool for your home or garden. and the price is only from uah 1,499. a reliable battery is also included. just call now and order. free delivery is available. check with the consultants: cut logs, cut timber,

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look at the news. good health, ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresen. sharp presentation of facts and competent opinions. and in america they also say, let's have better roads , we will have even better ones. a special look at the events in ukraine, there will be some katsaps on the border of kyiv and beyond. what kind of world does mr. norman dream of, can we imagine it? it's in an informational marathon with mykola veresny, saturday 5:10 p.m., sunday 6:15 p.m. at espresso. vasyl zima's big broadcast, two hours of air time, two hours of your time, two hours to learn about the war and what the world is like. two hours to catch up economic news and sports news, two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become native languages ​​to many, as well as distinguished

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