of energy and housing and communal services of the verkhovna rada of ukraine was in touch with us, he told me a lot of interesting things, and now i want to inform you that the glass state archive of the security service of ukraine is turning 30 years old, documents that for a long time were under surveillance in secret, about working with them, our khrystyna yatskiv was asked about this by the head of the branch archive of the sbu, andriy kogut, and i would also add... myself, that i remember the first days, the first months, even before independence, when yevhen marchuk is deceased the kingdom of heaven, opened these archives and gave my friends from canada and america permission, personally, to go to these archives, see about your parents, about your grandfathers, about your relatives who were detained, arrested, nkvd, ngb and so on and so on it was similar, and the work went on, and today, these days, 30 years and crosses. will tell us and you exactly what

is happening in the archives of the sbu, which once belonged to the kgb. please. hello, this is an espresso interview project. my name is khrystyna yatskiv and these are our conversations on the most important topics for ukrainians and not only. today we have an opportunity to talk about... preservation of national memory, about debunking many myths, and i would say, about digging up real historical facts. all this is done by a large number of people in our country, it is painstaking work, painstaking work, and one of such people, today's guest of my studio, andrii kogut, is a ukrainian historian, publicist, public figure and director of the branch state archive of the security service of ukraine. i congratulate you. good day. well,

we'll probably start with a short reminder to those who already know, and maybe someone who doesn't yet familiar with the branch state archive of the security service of ukraine, which is celebrating its 30th anniversary this year. i say celebrating, because this is a really great achievement, 30 years of great work, and the fruits of this work are already in the minds of ukrainians. yes, thank you, indeed, this year marks 30 years since the creation of golotsevo state. archive of the security service of ukraine, and our archival institution is known in ukraine and in the world for the fact that we store documents of the former kgb, those that were created directly by the kgbists themselves, their predecessors, predecessors, but also those documents that were accumulated by them during various repressive and other operations, and actually this is the mass of documents that is known in general in the west and in ukraine also as the archives of the kgb. at the same time, they cover virtually everything from the century

of bolshevism, starting from its establishment in 1918-19 and ending with the moment of restoration of ukraine's independence in 1991, when the former building itself and all the property of the former kkb was transferred to the new special service of the newly independent ukraine. thus, these documents got to us and we now provide an opportunity for everyone to work with these documents and not only work, research, but i think we will talk about it later. necessarily, and you know, the question that always bothered me, and it is often asked by people, is the collapse of the soviet union, it seems, from outposts from nenatsk, even representatives of the soviet special services, and as i understand it, this is precisely the reason that they simply did not have time to destroy or bring a huge number of documents with them, and we understand that representatives of the kgb very often later than the independent... countries were already representatives

of the ukrainian special services, well, yes and no, that is, indeed, the collapse of the soviet union was unexpected for kgb employees, but at the same time, when we actually talk about those archives that were accumulated and kept in ukraine, they were not planned to be exported, the situation in ukraine was radically different than in the baltic countries, lithuania, latvia, estonia, actually 90-91 is the time of discussions about the renewal of the soviet union, what it will look like in the future. and already at that moment no one had any doubts that the baltic countries will restore their independence, and with regard to ukraine, there were no such doubts, everyone in moscow was convinced that ukraine would continue to be a colony, a polite colony of the kremlin, and the fact that ukraine managed to restore its independence was truly a surprise, and thanks to this, those who became a surprise, thanks to this, these archives were preserved in ukraine, and today we can actually work with almost everything. the volume of the documentation that

was created by the communist special services on the territory of ukraine. kgb archives, that's it were widely publicized, in... already with the start of decommunization in our country, in fact, one of the four decommunization laws directly related to open access to the archives of repressive bodies, the archives of the kgb, that is exactly what they are, that is, the concept is broader here, but after all, this basis of zeal is the archives of the kgb. and tell me, please, which of the most common historical lies of russia and the soviet union have already been scientifically and factually disproved as of now. by gaining access to the kgb archives and making them public? oh, it's really so much this is an extremely broad topic from the very moment of the collapse of the soviet union, that one of these myths is that ukrainian independence, they say, somehow happened by itself,

fell to us straight from the sky, no one, no one fought for it, no one i didn't expect it, and actually, if you look even at the documents of the kgb there from the stagnant 80s and 70s, then if... read communist newspapers, it looks like yes, everything is stagnant, nothing is happening. on the other hand, if we look at the documents of the kgb, we see something completely different picture, we see a lot of such grassroots protest, which actually protests against the introduction from czechoslovakia and solidarizes with solidarity in poland, and generally talks about many important points, including the independence of ukraine. of course, it wasn't the mainstream it was. noticeable, but it was constant, and actually this struggle, which continued anyway, was and existed throughout the entire period of the communist occupation, the bolshevik occupation of ukraine, it is, in my opinion, one of the key and important elements of this information war,

because russia itself is trying to show that, well, we are one people, nothing happened, and in general no one there in ukraine wanted to be independent, in fact it is not so, and thousands, hundreds of thousands... of cases that we have those persons who were actually repressed for the struggle for independence, vividly prove that this is not a myth, but a big lie. eh, very much, i emphasize once again, it seems to me, such painstaking work and a large-scale invasion, i am sure, made its corrections in the mode of framing all that data that you have access to, how is it happening now, how is it different from what you did before, well actually now one of the big differences is that we did not open our reading rooms, state archives , the civil state archives have opened their reading rooms to visitors, of course during non -aircraft alerts, we unfortunately cannot allow this with a high degree of risk, as we are in security premises, in a security building, and the risk

of being invited to us researchers, of course much larger than in the civil archives, at the same time, in fact, immediately after that, a month after the beginning of the... large-scale invasion, it was in april of the 22nd year that we fully restored the functioning of the work that had been going on in the archive before that, and since there was covid before that, we have already learned to work in remote mode to a certain extent, this is some kind of, well, a little sad moment when you don't have the opportunity to work live with researchers, communicate with them, talk about the needs that they have scientific, research, but here it is worth it to say that actually more than half of those who contacted us visited us. after all, these were the relatives of the repressed, those who wanted to learn information about their dead. and now we actually work in such an online mode, that is, the archive continues to work and as if it were constantly working. we provide answers to appeals to us when repressed relatives are sought, we provide

an opportunity to get to know and work with digital copies, and the same applies to actual research scientific projects when we work with colleagues there from poland, from the czech republic, from nime. from the united states, from other countries, and our geography is extremely wide from australia and japan, actually to north america, we would cover so, the northern globe, and well, not only the northern, the southern as well, and actually, in addition to the fact that we have restored our work and began to continue to respond to those appeals that are coming to us even now, we have also resumed the scientific projects that were ongoing, were and were started even before the full-scale invasion. because we believed that now is an extremely important moment for ukraine to explain ours past, explained our history, because it helps foreigners to understand, if the price of our struggle, why we fight for our independence, why it is so important for us,

the answer for us if obvious and clear, because unfortunately, we have experience that it was with our ancestors, when ukraine was losing its independence, and... we actually work on such projects, those projects that we restored, they usually related to such shared moments of history, which could be used to better explain who... who we are, why we are fighting for independence and why in fact, there is russia and all its predecessors. a very important point that you emphasize, it is the demand that gives birth and intensifies this research process, therefore, i do not know if i can now ask, in particular, everyone who listens and watches us, to be interested, to be interested in the history of their own families, because very often time, let's say so. layers many different events, many different true and false

layers, it seems to me that digging to the truth in order to realize how much each of the ukrainian families in general to one degree or another suffered from the soviet communist occupation, this is extremely important, you did not come to our studio empty-handed today, we will now talk about a large study about ukraine. in fact, the second half of the 1930s, and now we will talk about the persecution of the czech minority in particular, for many of our viewers and listeners it may be a surprise, well, were czechs also persecuted in ukraine, well, that is, there was at least someone who was not touched here, tell me a little in more detail, i am afraid that there are such, i am afraid that there are, in fact, those who were not touched was, but, actually, yes, this year we published a book, which work on which started a long time ago, but... really, the full-scale invasion intensified the work on this

book so much, it was such a rather difficult project to a certain extent, because despite , that it began at the moment when a cooperation agreement was signed between the czech institute for the study of totalitarian regimes, which is actually the czech analogue of the institute of national remembrance, and the security service in 2009, and it actually concerned the search for the fate of repressed czechs and slovaks on soviet territory. of the country , what is preserved in our archives, and after that, in yanukovych's vision , the situation changed politically in ukraine, then the situation changed in the czech republic, but the actual full-scale invasion, paradoxically, accelerated these processes, both for us and the czech it became clear to my colleagues that we should, if possible, get together as much as possible and publish the book . actually, because we want to show it as much as possible representation of archival documents that we

keep in our archives. in fact, in fact, this book, like all our other books, is to some extent such an invitation to research, it is rather such an emphasis on the fact that actually, and when we talk about the repression of the great terror of 37-38, if it were not it is obvious, but the czech minority was also the focus of this terror, and it is important to speak properly. about those moments that were not obvious, unknown before, not only to researchers, but to society in general, and the actual repression against the czech minority is exactly that topic, because really, who would have thought that the czechs were also recognized by the soviet regime as an enemy people, as an enemy nation, and actually our book clearly shows this, that is, these are 100 documents selected from the 1930s to 1991, the latest documents are in fact , the rehabilitation documents, if so... the final moment when the repressed were, on the one hand

, rehabilitated, and on the other, these rehabilitation documents, they clearly testify to the falsification of all these accusations that were made during the great terror, and you this book already visited the czech republic, presented it, what was the reaction, actually yes, first the presentation was in kyiv and next week we made a presentation in prague, there was a very, very good response. at the actual presentation in prague there were representatives and descendants, or rather ukrainian czechs, those czechs who later returned from ukraine to czechoslovakia, to the czech republic, and for them this book is important also because it is actually a book about their relatives, about their ancestors, very often about those about whom they did not have any information, but what happened to them in soviet union? well, you explore the past. historian, i have a little touch with modernity, and judging by the latest czech

initiatives, in particular by the czech government and the president, we can say that the discussions between our countries at the highest level and even such historical ones are extremely, extremely important, i would say fundamentally, and as for such a repressive mechanism as deportation. we see that little has changed in the russian federation. in russian minds, and they will continue to do it, they do it with ukrainians in the temporarily occupied territories territories, they do it with ukrainian children, this is a particularly sensitive topic. and why deportations, that is, what is the idea of ​​resettling, mixing, making a person be separated from the territory, a native of which he is, well, when we talk about deportations, deportations for russia are in fact another

additional tool for waging war , that is, when we look at the history when russia and the russian... used deportations, it was actually always as an element of military operations, a tool of war, at first it was used and against the ukrainian uziks, against the poles after the polish uprisings, when in this way they tried to completely destroy any possibility of resistance in the future, and it was such, as it were, this element of establishing complete control over the occupied, killed territories, during the soviet, soviet occupation, the soviet union, in fact, this tool became extremely widely used, was extremely, so well worked out with a huge number of instructions, these are the documents that we also keep, and actually, as we speak even about ukrainians, and about czechs, and about poles, and about germans, even about the same jews, crimean tatars, greeks, bulgarians, that is, the list of those who were deported can be

continued extremely widely, and in fact, it was also used against all of them , thus actually trying. or to prepare for war, or during the war to clear the territory of those whom they considered to be unfriendly peoples, unfriendly nations, and there were extremely many of them, and today russia continues to use deportations as this very instrument of war, of course they they are trying, unfortunately, to improve it in vain, that is, they take the experience that was already developed by the kremlin and its predecessors earlier, and apply it in a new way, today, in fact... when the struggle is for the very existence of ukrainians, ukrainians , and the war is for the ukrainian identity, that is, one of these goals, in addition to these military goals, the military goals also became the goal of destroying the identity, but as soon as we are, no matter how much we look at these deportations, that is, it is an instrument of war, and actually we are now

we are preparing one of our next books, i hope it will be published this year with colleagues. from poland, which actually relate to the deportation from western ukraine in 1940-41, and precisely such projects are extremely important for us, as they give us the opportunity to talk with our neighbors and partners on the historical experience, which, unfortunately, is also familiar to them, and for us, and we hope, in fact, that these books are not only academic publications for researchers, but also a reminder for experts, for politicians, for society, what... can be expected from russia, and what today ukraine is restraining at the cost of its own victims, at the cost of its own war, that in fact we do not give russia the opportunity to start the next offensive, and the same czech republic or poland, unfortunately, only ukraine god forbid it falls, they will be next, i hope it never happens, and it is very nice that if the czechs and the czech politicians understand this, and actually

this is a very good example, when in the czech republic... having very similar to us experience, understand why it is worth supporting ukraine today. well, we understand that different countries perceive the level of historical discussion in different ways, in some countries politicians use historical discussion for their own purposes, and in order to generally form some vector of foreign policy. it was very often the case. at least before in poland, like now, is there progress in your opinion, at least from what the politicians say, well, the progress is not obvious, that is, the situation here is of course very different when we talk about politicians and when we talk about actual scientific cooperation, in in principle, we have scientific cooperation, everything is adequate, that is, yes, we have disputes,

of course, that is, we have different assessments of various events, but at the same time, if there were certain... methods that unite us, which in principle, they are identical and identical for scientists from any country, and when we actually talk about the cooperation of our archival institution with polish archives, this cooperation has actually been going on since 1996, that is , actually two years after the creation of the archive this cooperation began, a joint working commission was created, which continues its own to work and this year actually a book about deportations - it will be the 11th volume of a joint series, that is, in principle... in principle, when we talk about such a discussion between specialists, professionals in their field, archivists, historians, this discussion is not only possible, it is actually needed, and this is what it is worth... building all our discussions about complex historical events of the past, at a time when it begins to enter the political plane, well, here, unfortunately, there is some

abuse of assessments and interpretations, regarding deportations and a few words about the native crimea, the deportation of the crimean tatar people, and we understand that when we trace... the process of deportation itself, that is the 40s, we trace how exactly the ties, not only legal, but actual, were built between mainland ukraine and crimea , and when we trace what the relations between crimea and the russian federation were in general in the 20th century, do we have all the necessary array of documents and data, in particular. equal in order to appreciate the scale of this catastrophe, or anyway, when we talk about deportation crimean tatars, we have to look for them, and

it would be good if they were somewhere in the russian federation, in that kgb, unfortunately, yes, that is, if we are actually talking about an assessment of the scale and general trends, then we rather have this material, but if we are already talking about such detailed, more in-depth research, then unfortunately yes, when we are actually in a situation with deportations, we need access to russian archives, and the situation in russia and ukraine is now radically opposite, and this is another such vivid example of , how much if we are definitely not one people, today in ukraine there is an unprecedented opportunity to work with archives, even despite the state of martial law, the archives are open, they work, they are constantly increasing, digitizing, and posting these documents on their electronic ... shelves where they exist, where they do not exist, you can apply and get these documents online, that is, in principle, today ukraine has a unique chance, precisely thanks to its openness, thanks to a new approach to working with archival

documents, to contribute to this decolonization, knowledge about the past not only of us as ukrainians, not only of crimea, but in general of the russian empire, that colonial situation that was created and all those myths that exist, including around crimea, yes, that is, because in fact.. crimea is , unfortunately, such a good example, uh, of such settler colonization, when the indigenous population was actually pushed out, and instead it was replaced by russians and those who were loyal to the empire, and actually about these moments it is important to speak in order to explain that crimea was never russia, but i always worry about the moment when we talk about... or historical documents, you know, when putin talks about the next rurik, sorry to tell you, i always think, well, ukrainian

scientists have already refuted his theses 300 times , so these theses are well-worn and he doesn't come up with any new ones can study, but nevertheless, i understand that their goal, in addition to our population, our territories, us as a state is also our historical memory. how much have we lost due to the occupation of a large part of ukraine in the context of our archives? unfortunately, yes, we are currently at a loss, some of them are irretrievable, some, i hope not, that is, we have lost the archives that are located in the temporarily occupied territories, but i still hope that we will be able to return these archival documents and these archival funds after the liberation of the territories and our fellow citizens, and it will be possible to work with them, and in fact, when he speaks... when the discussion about the process of reparations is already underway today, and here it is also important to talk about, including, the archives,

maybe, that is, there where archival collections and funds losses are irretrievably lost, it is possible to say that these archives should be replaced by those archival funds stored in the former imperial center, which i hope will soon perish forever, and actually in this way there ... general information is still stored, since from the periphery, either the first documents were collected there, or general reports in general, that is , there is information there, and these archives, archival funds can be returned to ukraine, actually, as part of the reparations process. also here it is worth talking about hundreds, at least several hundreds of funds that were taken out of the territory of ukraine, starting back there in the 18th and 19th centuries, including in the 20th century, and these are also the funds that should be returned. to ukraine in general from russia, in addition, it is also important to talk about the fact that when we talk about the need for decolonization of scientific knowledge and those discussions that take place among

historians, then to... and the opportunity to work in all former enslaved nations with the archives of the former of the imperial center is extremely important for us to debunk all those myths that were created by the russian empire or its reincarnations and spread as much as possible in the world, and today, when you go, say, to the library of congress in the united states and take a book about russia, you will read there about ukraine, about georgia, about belarus, about kazakhstan, while none of us is russia and never was, moreover, if we look at ... modern russia, which has this fake prefix federation, it is not a federation, and there is a huge the number of peoples who are enslaved, and the stories of which have not been told at all, yes , that is, access to these archives must be open, and the guarantee of this access can be for sure us, maybe someone else from the charred nations, but i think that we are for sure. i understand that tangible documents are artifacts, but still. e

level of digitization before the large-scale invasion, it allowed us to save, partially yes, unfortunately, no, unfortunately, of course, not to the extent that we would have liked, at the same time, the full-scale invasion itself significantly accelerated the digitization processes. sir andrii, i thank you very much for this work, i urge you to join the work of the branch state archive of the security service of ukraine, to be interested, to make inquiries, they are us. answer - said mr. andriy in our studio now, not immediately, but that's why i want all of us to dive deeper into our own history, it was an espresso interview, my name is khrystyna yatskiv, we will definitely change our conversations with the best and most professional guests on the most current topics. be with us. lacquer

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