zelensky got rid of his best friend in the circle, stay with us. the biggest defeat of president erdogan in turkey was the first time in 20 years that the opposition won the local elections. what does the defeat of the ruling party mean and what are the consequences? mother, we are analyzing in today's issue of bbc ukraine, i am olga polomaryuk. local elections were held in turkey last weekend, where mayors, members of local councils and other regional officials were elected. for the first time in two decades, president erdoğan's party lost. the largest opposition force - the republican people's party won in six of the largest cities, including istanbul. erdogan himself called these elections a turning point. we will

not disrespect the decision of our people in any way, we will not show stubbornness, act against the will of the people and question their decision, in accordance with the message that our people left in the ballot boxes, we will be as accurate and objective as possible, within common sense and inner conscience, we will take all necessary steps, local elections at. were held in all provinces of turkey, 81 of them, opposition the republican people's party won in istanbul, ankara, antalya and izmir. the regions are marked in red on the map, and in total, opposition representatives won mayor posts in 35 regions. the presidential party of justice and development, or akp for short, it is marked in yellow, will receive 24 similar positions, mostly in the central part of turkey. but let's focus on istanbul. home to a fifth of

the country's population, which is 16 million people, it is considered a model of turkey, the main economic center, because control over this city means control over the majority of the country's economy, including trade, tourism, and finance. since 2019, the mayor of istanbul has been a representative of the opposition, krem imamoglu, and as a result of this election, he remains in power. unfortunately democracies have been weakening in this world and while this has been happening authoritarian regimes have come to power, many articles around the world have asked if democratic regimes are nearing their end, this is the day the suppression of democracy in turkey has ended and it is resurgent , well , as the spectators note, for erdogan, a loss in istanbul is a personal defeat, he gave birth there. he started his political career there,

was mayor, but his party failed to regain control of the city in these elections, and a correspondent from istanbul told more about it on the bbc. during the last two months, during the election campaign , i saw every time on social networks how the president appeared in one province or another, met with thousands of people at meetings across the country. this election really meant a lot to him personally. he campaigned for candidate from the akr government party here in istanbul. last weekend was his big campaign rally. for erdogan, it was fundamental to win back istanbul from the opposition that came to power in 2019. regaining his party's control of the city would be a personal victory for the president. and indeed, after he himself voted, he said that people were tired of elections. there were already three of them in less than a year. last year.

there were two rounds of general elections, and then this one. so when he voted, it was noticeable that maybe he felt fatigue among the voters, and that the balance of power is probably shifting. so what do these elections mean for the future of turkey. we are talking to evgenia gabber, a senior researcher at the atlantic council think tank. ms. yevgenia, thank you for joining us, and let's start with istanbul, which erdogan tried in every way, as he said, to return. istanbul to the real owner, i.e. his party, but the opposition candidate, the incumbent mayor, won there again, what do you think this shows? good evening, it seems to me that the victory of the opposition in istanbul is real symbolic we remember that it was erdogan who began his political career as the mayor of istanbul, and therefore the struggle for this city has a double meaning, and as a struggle for resources, the administration. economic,

financial, and as a symbolic mini-version of how the political struggle between the government and the opposition takes place, what the mayor has now won. from the opposition krem and mamouglu says that obviously the voter wants new faces, wants changes, wants balancing of the akp ruling party at the local level and dissatisfaction with the economic situation in the country, because this is also important factor, therefore, of course, for erdogan personally and for the justice and development party, or akp for short, this is an important symbolic... defeat. yes , well, actually, we will talk about the position a little later, but now even before the current president, before erdogan, last year he won his third presidential term, yes, the next presidential parliamentary elections in turkey are scheduled as far back as 2028, so how is his

in your opinion, the party will take into account the results of the local elections in preparation for the next general elections. yes, that's exactly what erdogan is about and said in his speech from... from the balcony, you know the balcony speech, as it is called, after the results of every election, it is a part of the political life of turkey, it is expected by all the citizens of turkey, and this year, the president actually said that this is not a turning point in the history of the ruling party, but it is a turning point, and those lessons, those conclusions that need to be drawn, they will be drawn, and these four years until 2028... the year of the next presidential and parliamentary elections , they will use to to do the work over mistakes, on the other hand there is the impression that there is a general fatigue of the voter, because since 2003 the party of justice and development has always been in power at various levels,

and the economic situation, which is not the best in turkey at the moment, inflation, devaluation of the lira and also the administrative crisis on the ground, in particular. in those regions that were affected by the earthquake two years ago, so i think that the ruling party will carry out this work on mistakes as much as possible, but the question is that the opposition is not standing still, and now, as we see, from this dynamic, the voter is inclined rather, to give such an advance of confidence to the opposition, because these 20 years in power, even 22 years in power of the justice and development party seem to have reached a certain limit in terms of where there can be... progress, where there can be certain successes, achievements. ugh. ms. yevgenia, before we continue the conversation, many supporters of the ruling party claim that erdoğan's team has done more for turkey in the last 20 years than was achieved in the last century of turkish history. but

the election results show the opposite: whether the country is really tired of the current government and what influenced the results of the current elections? this was reported by the observer of the monitoring service. on turkey william armstrong. a number of factors, according to observers, influenced the election results. the main opposition party jhp has made big gains, and in fact, this was a surprise, because before the elections, many predicted that due to the fragmentation of the opposition, it would be difficult for them to even get the number they got in the local elections in 2019. but in reality they got more. among many point to the turkish economy as a significant factor. which suffers from inflation, with inflation at 67% in february and interest rates currently at 50%, so people have been struggling financially for a long time and this has caused disillusionment among voters who supported the government. we didn't see much enthusiasm, which was reflected

in the voter turnout. it was still high, more than 75%, but this is a rather low turnout for turkey. for example, last year in the first round of the presidential elections, the turnout was... more than 88%. to understand the long-term consequences we will have to wait and see the reaction of both the opposition and the government to the outcome of these elections. the opposition party jhp has received significant support outside its traditional centers. they were quite strong in the west of the country and in the coastal regions of turkey. but if you look at the election map, you can see how they have already begun to penetrate central anatolia. even in those provinces that previously supported president erdogan's party. their party lost it all, just like the districts in istanbul, they controlled them for over two decades, so the question now is whether this indicates a major change in political dynamics, is it the almost inevitable end of a certain era in turkish politics, or is it simply the result of

certain factors that contributed to it? so back to the conversation, evgenia, we heard about the factors, was inflation the main factor... that influenced the election results? i think it's the economic situation in general, it's both inflation and discount rates, which are now 50%, as noted, but it's also accumulated problems. in economics actually these high rates, they were the result of a return to orthodox fiscal policy, after several years of president erdoğan trying to pursue unorthodox policy, on the contrary, lowering the discount rates, saying that this would lead to lower inflation, it obviously did not work, now it is difficult enough to return to a normal situation in the economy, to which you can add a sufficiently high level of unemployment, inflation, devaluation of the lira. and in general even the purchasing power of the turkish consumer, the turkish voter

has fallen significantly over the last few years, so i would really say that the economy is one of the key factors, but there is also a desire to see effective managers on the ground, many say that loyalty to the authorities was the key factor after all, not efficiency in the work of mayors, in particular, that is why all this desire with... the desire to balance the consolidated vertical of power at the presidential, parliamentary level, voting for the opposition at the local level, the desire to improve the economic situation, i think that all this in general led to the results we have now. yes, well, but this is an update, a new breath of air, yes, if we talk in general about the opposition force, the republican people's party, to which the mayor of istanbul also belongs, who in... with what slogans they went to the elections and, as we can see, from the results won what they promised?

and firstly, i think the big advantage of the opposition was that there was finally a change in the leader of the opposition, kimal kell, who is 70 plus years old, and who was very comfortable for erdogan as the main opposition, finally resigned, after losing on parliamentary and presidential elections , he was replaced by... a younger and more active leader yuruzei, after that we also talk about the mayor of istanbul, imam glu, specifically imam glu, who is considered as a potential opponent of erdogan in the next elections of the year 28, that is the opposition showed itself better in the sense of this change of generations and the correspondence of the times. in addition, the kurdish votes were important because all the parties followed different lists, their own lists for these elections. but the kurds supported the candidate of the opposition, ekrem moglu in istanbul and some other

regions, and this is also a significant percentage of voters who counted oppositionists. in general, the more liberal, more inclusive rhetoric of the opposition, it seems to me, has now worked to the advantage, because, after all , people are tired of the polarization of society in... they were washed from enough of such radical , tough, categorical statements of the authorities, and all this, it seems to me, just made it possible to significantly expand the electorate for the main opposition republican people's party. evgenia, well you talked about age, but erdogan is already over 70, so how do you see his future, his political future, he will leave politics, find a successor, what are your predictions, to be brief, president erdogan himself has already said that that... this election is his last, it should be remembered that the next election will be held in 2028, it will again

be a presidential parliamentary election, and in four years it is obvious that a lot can change. now there is even talk of changing or writing a new constitution, rather than amendments to the old one, so theoretically, one more term for erdogan could be possible in case of writing a new constitution, but taking into account the direction and current trends of the voters, i think that in fact in the 28th year, erdogan can really give way to his political successors from the akp . who could it be? now there are many conversations, party functionaries, certain ministers, son-in-law erdoğan, selcuk bayraktar are mentioned, here we can discuss who can become such a conditional successor from akpr, but it is obvious that these results... of the local elections are very they clearly say that changes are needed, renewal is needed, and new blood and

new breath are needed not only for the opposition, but also for the ruling party. evgenia gabber was on our air, thank you for the analysis. thank you. well, that's all for today, see you tomorrow at 9 p.m. good bye. congratulations, friends, the second part of the verdict program is on the espresso tv channel. my name is serhiy rudenko, let's talk today about the holy war of the russian orthodox church. against ukraine, the russian offensive, which is predicted in may-june this year, and about why zelensky got rid of his best friend. we will talk about this and other things in the next 45 minutes. in the meantime, i want to remind you that we are working not only on the live broadcast of the tv channel, but also on

our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us live there. please like it. in this video, and also take part in our vote. today we ask you the following: is the west ready for the defeat of russia, are our western partners ready for the defeat of russia? yes, no, in youtube is quite simple, either yes or no, you can write your own version in the comments under this video. if you're watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think our western partners are prepared to defeat russia (0800). 211 381 no 0800 211 382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. well, first of all, about the orthodox jihad of the so-called russian orthodox church. the moscow church declared a holy war against ukraine. online

the russian orthodox church has made public the so-called. kaz of the universal russian people's council, church meetings held in moscow. among other things, the document states that, i quote: the entire territory of modern ukraine should enter the zone of exclusive influence of russia, and russia's large-scale invasion of ukraine is called a holy war. from a spiritual and moral point of view, a special military operation is a holy war in which russia... and its people, protecting the single spiritual space of holy russia, perform the mission of a deterrent that protects the world from the onslaught of globalism and the victory of the west, which has fallen into satanism, says the document that was adopted at this great meeting, which is called the universal russian people's

council, the patriarch of the russian orthodox church himself, or simply put, gundyaev, general or? a colonel or lieutenant colonel of the fsb, during this conclave declared that this order was aimed at strengthening and developing the so-called russian peace, at the same time denying its outright nazi character. let's listen to what kirill said. the main task of these orders, as well as long-term activity of the entire world russian people's council, it is the protection and strengthening of the russian world, separation. the weakening of the russian people, the deprivation of their spiritual and vital forces, always led to the weakening and crisis of the russian state. therefore, the restoration of the unity of the russian people, as well as its spiritual and vital potential, are key conditions for the development of russia and the russian world in the 21st century. and let no one frighten us with russian nationalism.

russian nationalism does not exist in nature, everyone knows that. they so often repeat with putin that there is no russian nationalism, that the whole world fully understands that there may not be russian nationalism, but there is russian fascism. you look at these faces of the so-called spiritual people's council, which took place in moscow. this is some congress of the central committee of the communist party of the soviet union. and gundyaev also delivers a speech as the general secretary of the central committee of the party of the soviet union, all theses that patriarch kirill expresses are theses that call on russians to kill those who speak out against the russian world, the ukrainians are speaking

against the russian world, so they must be destroyed, and the entire space, which in... they call their spiritual space, they want to turn into the space of the russian world, and the question here is that this is not fascism, that it is not racism, a concept that arose under putin, and under putin it is developing, when one people for some reason believed that they could walk with weapons in their hands. to another state, to another state, to kill those who live nearby, to destroy cities, to destroy countries with aerial bombs and missile strikes. which basically lives separately for a long time, and a country that deserves its own independence, its own sovereignty,

no, it is necessary to come, necessarily destroy , kill, rape, loot this people, and then say, well, this is not russian nationalism at all, and this not russian fascism at all, this is the ideology of the russian world, although. in my opinion, this history of russian peace in ukraine was killed a long time ago by putin himself who killed this ideology in ukraine, starting the war in ukraine on february 24, 2022, the large-scale offensive of the russian invaders destroyed everything in the ideological space and in the information space before... before that he tried to build the kremlin, and judging by the fact that after the re-election of the sixth or

fifth president of russia, or during these pseudo-elections, putin decided to recruit the russian orthodox church and force this church to work before the federal security service and in general before. all that, his entourage, which generates all the ideologues of this racism, russian fascism, now they are taking over and activating a branch of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, including, although, although, in the ukrainian the orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate , which did not renounce ties with the russian orthodox church until 2022, and which only held a council there in may 22 of the year and supposedly

declared some kind of independence, that's what the uocp called the statement of the russian orthodox church about the holy war , which contradicts the basic principles of christian morality and distanced itself from the ideology of the russian world, i will quote what was written in onufry's press service on... the ukrainian orthodox church does not support and distance itself from the ideology of the russian world. moreover, the attitude of our church to this his beatitude metropolitan onufriy of kyiv and all ukraine publicly expressed a long time ago. we are not building a russian peace, we are building god's world. well, you see how onufry closed with this thesis that he is building god's world in ukraine, not russian peace, but starting from

2014 to 2022 onufry was a member of the synod of the russian orthodox church and with the beginning of the great war he left the synod and actually announced that his church was leaving. and begins an independent life in ukraine, but in these eight years that were between in the 14th and 22nd years, onufry was not prevented from participating in the meetings of the russian orthodox church in russia, and gundyaev was not prevented from saying that we have a church on the territory of the ukrainian state and that this church, although it is called the ukrainian orthodox church, but ... it has long been in fact the russian orthodox church, and the name does not change anything, moreover, literally half an hour ago i had on the air the general of the sbu

in the reserve viktor yaguna, he says that at the moment, about 70 priests of this the so-called ukrainian orthodox churches are involved in various cases, well, most of them are cases about collaboration or about... the fact that they work for a foreign special service, the federal security service of the russian federation, and these priests who adhere to, or who profess the russian peace, they were and remain in the church, they did not go anywhere, and this is a big problem, and this is a big challenge for the national security of the ukrainian state, unfortunately, unfortunately, so far the ukrainian authorities... have not made important decisions that would make the existence of this branched network, the kremlin network, in ukraine, because it was built one way or another

by the russian orthodox church and the same gundyaev, and part of the priests, as they were, and remain in this system. the only thing they officially say is that legally, they have nothing to do with it there, but, as the spokesman of the orthodox church of ukraine, metropolitan eustratiy, rightly noted, the structure of the moscow patriarchate in ukraine, headed by metropolitan onufriy, quite resembles a person who... .suffering from domestic violence, but not able to break up with the rapist. even when i was listening to kirill, or the so-called gundyaev, or the so-called kirill the patriarch, i remembered dostoevsky's words that all the russians took from orthodoxy was to cross yourself before chopping you down

with an ax. well, actually, this ideology. hey of the russian orthodox church, it was and remains so: they are ready to bless their own people, those who go mobilized to the war with ukraine, they are ready to justify these crimes that they commit against ukrainians and crimes against humanity, they are ready to justify missile attacks strikes on residential areas in kyiv, kharkiv, odessa, they are ready to serve those. authorities , which are inherently criminal, they are ready to serve a being who has an arrest warrant from the international criminal court, and this is probably quite revealing and reveals the essence, the whole essence of the so-called russian orthodox church, which, according to orthodoxy, hides this ax with which he is ready to kill... his

neighbor, and this, this is a great challenge not only for ukraine, but also for the whole world, because together with the condemnation of putin's terrorist regime the world and the orthodox world should also give an assessment to the russian orthodox church and its head, patriarch gundyaev, because you cannot change the concept, you cannot speak ill of it. white cannot be constantly manipulated and use faith as a tool, one of the tools for the destruction of the ukrainian people. another tool that russians use quite actively in the fight against ukrainians is the telegram messenger, which was created by former russians, although there are no former russians, i do not believe that there is

a former russia. and this was confirmed by the chief the head of the intelligence department of the ministry of defense, kyrylo budanov, who spoke at the kyiv statcomforum forum and said that the telegram network in many ways has a destructive effect inside the country, but at the same time it allows information to be delivered to people in the occupied territories. let's listen to what general budanov said. from the point of view of national security, this is definitely a problem, it must be understood, despite the fact that i am absolutely against the suppression of freedom of speech, but well, this is already too much, that is, in our country, any person can to make a channel, to start announcing on it everything he wants, absolutely everything he wants, and when they start doing something, they cover themselves with the fact that it is the freedom of the people, but it is not the freedom of the people, it is a little different,

it is called something else. you know, this discussion about whether telegram belongs in ukraine or not, and how russia uses this messenger to get information, including from ukrainian territory after massive missile attacks, when its ukrainians send pictures to where the missiles hit , or inform russians about moving. military, this discussion reminds me of the discussion that took place eight years ago, when they talked about the need to ban russian social networks vkontakte and classmates, remember, then there was a lot of talk, and it is inconvenient when these social networks are closed, because how will we live without them?