good evening, we are from ukraine. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours , we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, our victory, today in the program. long-term support, $100 billion. from nato for five years, what road map will the alliance offer to ukraine at the washington summit? air threat. russia bombards kharkiv with kababs, hits kyiv with zircons and accumulates calibers. how to protect millionaire cities? mobilization since 25 years, cancellation of disabled and electronic cabinet. zelensky signed three mobilization laws, as far as this will strengthen

the army. over the next hour, we will talk about this and other things with our guests, the diplomat and former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, volodymyr ogrysk, and the spokesman of the air force of ukraine, major of the ukrainian armed forces, ilya yevlashy. the second part of our program will feature political experts maksym rozumny and serhii taran. but before we start our big talk, let's watch a video of how the ukrainian fighters struck. russian tank column by fpv drones, the explosive video was released in the 14th separate regiment of the armed forces of ukraine. let's see how it was.

in the course of this program, friends, we conduct a survey and ask you whether ukraine will receive an invitation to join nato in 2024, there are actually two answers: yes, no, or if you have an option, please write it on youtube in the comments , if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think ukraine can. get an invitation to join nato in 2024 0821 381 no 08021382 all calls to these numbers are free , vote and we have our first guest volodymyr hrysko, diplomat, ex-minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, head of the russian research center. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. greetings , health, thank you for the invitation.

vodymir, let's start our conversation with the washington nato summit, the anniversary, which will take place in just three months on july 9-11, it will be the 75th anniversary of the summit and the secretary of state of the united states of america anthony blinken, during his visit to paris, stated the need to create a road map for ukraine's accession to nato, on the eve of this summit, let's listen to what mr. blinken said. as the allies in vilnius declared, ukraine will be a member of nato. the question is having a good and clear road map to reach this conclusion. and i believe that the nato summit for its 75th anniversary will really focus very specifically on how we can create that road map. or, using another image, a bridge is needed that will allow for ukraine... to become a member of nato, mr.

volodymyr, what kind of bridge, as blinken put it, can be between the alliance and ukraine? well, you know, mr. serhiy, this is already a little different from the, well, in principle, not very, not very pro-ukrainian position that the united states of america took during the previous vilnius summit, because actually they and germany... blocked the very the idea of ​​inviting ukraine to the start of the negotiations, it could be some half-step forward, that is , it is obvious that there will be no invitation, so i think what about the question that you asked our dear tv viewers, of course, what can be answered right now... in the negative

, unfortunately, why is this happening, well, that's another question, it lies in the plane. the fact that the united states of america is still afraid of the so-called defeat of russia, therefore, they are afraid of escalation, they are afraid of using nuclear weapons against ukraine, and even more afraid of the need to respond to the next, flagrant crimes of moscow, it is easier for them not to respond, and therefore they occupy such a waiting room. position can somehow, unfortunately, it will not be resolved, it is just a continuation of suffering for ukrainians, for the ukrainian people, but it is not their own people, it is a foreign people, in relation to what can happen at the summit in this

context, it seems to me, something similar to what happened in our relations with the european union, when... you know, we were given opportunities in portions, well, at first there was no immediate invitation to negotiations, but before that, well, there was something like , the first step to the invitation to me for some reason, it seems that this first step towards an invitation to negotiations will be taken at the washington summit, in which form it will take, well, for now... western colleagues, diplomats, experts are working on it, and most likely, it will be such a half step , uh, well , you know, it's still more than nothing, so

let's watch it and move ultimately the next half-step to a formal invitation, the same can be expected in the ... near term, but it requires a really very clear and clear position of our western partners in this regard the issue that you and i are talking about, mr. sergey, we must stop being afraid that russia must, i say, must lose in this war, the aggressor must be punished for his, for his, or rather, for his terrible crimes, and so as long as... the states will think that somehow it is possible to get away from this issue and hide from it, well, until then we will have such half-steps, as i understand correctly, as long as our western

partners clearly do not articulate that putin's russia as it is, threatens the world and should not exist. and until russia goes through the stages of denazification, demilitarization and denuclearization, there will be no peace on planet earth, because there is a dangerous country called russia. i would, mr. serhiyov, even to your three, with which i absolutely and completely agree, add the fourth d, which is called disintegration, that is exactly in this case. the world will heave a sigh of relief, because if in the place of this monster, soilmen, well, call it what you want, this formation, a territory

of peace, social development, mutually beneficial trade, cooperation and so on, the world will indeed turn upside down to a certain extent, but... it will turn upside down in the positive sense of the word, because the key element of this axis of evil will actually disappear. in this case, china is not such a terrible nuclear threat as the russian federation is today, with china in the end, given its deep incorporation into the world economy, it will be possible to negotiate, this is a completely different story, and this maddened... wild fascist regime, which we have today in moscow, it really should be destroyed, otherwise we will constantly live in anticipation of another barbarism from this wild horde. nato secretary general jen

stoltenberg proposes to create a russia fund mr. sergey, the sound is lost, you can hear me, mr. volodymyr, now yes, yes, thank you, yes, nato secretary general jen stoltenberg proposes to create an allied fund. contributions for ukraine in the amount of 100 billion dollars over 5 years as part of the package to be signed by the leaders of the member countries of the alliance at the summit in washington. let's hear what... jen stoltenberg said before meeting of nato ministers in brussels. i welcome that the allies continue to make large deliveries of arms, ammunition and equipment, but ukraine has urgent needs, any delay in providing support has consequences on the battlefield, so we need to change the dynamics of our support. we must provide reliable and predictable care. country in the field of security for the long term, so that we rely less on voluntary contributions and more

on nato commitments, less short-term proposals and more multi-year obligations as far as i understand, mr. volodymyr, there should be a consensus decision regarding this aid package of 100 billion for 5 years, because literally, after stoltenberg's statement, a statement was made. peter said that hungary will not take part in nato's activities to coordinate military supplies to ukraine. in this situation, can hungary play the same role that it tries to play in the european union, when questions arise about our advancement in this community? well, here, mr. sergey, there are two aspects, the first is the one he is talking about stotenberg, and this, again, is a continuation. the same opinion about which we were talking about, sorry, that the west still understands that

it is not possible to play around anymore, that russia is a threat to all of them, that in order to avoid this threat, it is necessary to help ukraine, and do it immediately, do it is precisely within the framework of the alliance, and not only, under the roof of ramstein, so to speak , although it is a great initiative, but it must be structured, there is no better structure than nato in this regard, and this is a big, big positive, and i think that the same confirmation of our thesis that certain positive psychological changes are taking place in the west, by the way, this is also a clear signal, well, to trump and his... to his supporters that if he

thinks that he will manage nato the way he wants, it is unlikely that it will be so, and the europeans will certainly be able to help ukraine, maybe not on such a scale, but beyond that. as for hungary, there is no need for dovoroshka to come here, if they can, i mean, er... this government of orban and all his henchmen, they will do all possible, well, things that would interfere with us, but you see, the situation is that we can do without hungary, and if it will be the format of nato minus hungary, then frankly speaking, we will... will not suffer at all, and i think that precisely such a moment will be key

in solving this issue. mr. volodymyr, another interesting piece of information appeared in the wall street journal, they write that macron held confidential talks with biden and scholz to convince them to change their strategy regarding russia, and first of all, regarding... military issues, and, as the newspaper writes, this idea is fundamentally different from the position that the administration of president biden has followed since the beginning of the war, avoiding actions that could lead to an escalation of the conflict. unnamed sources cited by the woll street journal also say that scholz and biden are roughly on the same page, they don't want to risk nato allies being divided. into two parts and one part could not become, so that one

part does not become a party to the conflict. macron says that there will be no need to involve nato or the united states of america if russia targets french troops, and gives the example of how french troops were in africa and then france did not turn to allies for help, but it seems that france did. .. dare to send a small contingent, or military advisers, or in some other capacity, to the territory of the ukrainian state, what macron was talking about, could it ... push other countries to act more boldly in relation to the russians and their actions in ukraine , than we have seen before now, well, you see, mr. sergey, this is a confirmation, another confirmation of our conclusions with you that these two countries are still afraid of this escalation in quotation marks, because

in reality there is no escalation, but there is absolutely... a fair answer, an answer , which should punish the aggressor, well , i’m not even here mentioning the statements of american officials that we should not bomb russia and so on, all this does not withstand any criticism at all, this, i think, can be called cynicism of the highest kind, but you know, after all, there are already positive moments, like i was told today, i didn't hear personally, but... i was told that the us ambassador to ukraine, at a public meeting, used the formula russia's defeat, perhaps this is the first swallow that will bring us a great and pleasant spring. as to whether france ought

to coordinate all her actions with the other allies , or any other ally, to do the same, and certainly not. well, in this case , we can forget about nato for a moment and remember the organization of the united nations, this completely incompetent organization, if we talk about it in general, but here we can talk about its members and about the charter of this structure, that is, without any nato, but only referring to the un charter, each... country, according to the 51st article of this charter, has the right to self-defense and has the right to turn to any other country that is a member of this organization for help, that's all, as they say, a fairy tale, that is, the ukrainian government, if of course it decides to do so, because so far we only hear conversations about that

we do not need any foreign troops for our own territories and so on. yes, if our ukrainian authorities make such a decision to turn to france or belgium or italy or any other country, a member of the un, not a member of nato, but a member of the un, and ask for help, then the un will feel at ease in this case , continues to be afraid, as he is afraid even now, and all this is done on a bilateral basis between the country that suffers from aggression, that is, ukraine. and those countries that want to help repel this aggression. this is such a simple, banal, calm logic, and then, all the more, there is no need to go to someone consultations, asking for some consents, agreements and so on, and everything is simple. if, mr. volodymyr, with taurus and atakans, it is still possible to somehow understand the logic of scholz and

biden, then it is not at all clear why our western partners do not... give us a sufficient amount of the patriot system, because today dmytro kuleba, while in brussels at a meeting, heads of foreign affairs of nato member countries, during this two-day meeting, he stated that international partners do not provide a sufficient number of air defense systems, despite the fact that they have have in their arsenals more than 100 such systems, patriot systems on... he says, i can, they could absolutely give five to seven of these systems, if everything is clear with long-range missiles, and why is the west delaying air defense, or they after all , they are also afraid that this will lead to an escalation, that the ukrainians will drive these patriots to the border with russia, will start shooting down planes,

bombers, fighter jets, with which they bombard kharkiv, kharkiv oblast, well... mr. serhiy, i will allow you here disagree a little, but not everything of course with long-range long-range missiles, that is, it is also defense in fact, if we destroy points on the territory of the russian federation from which civilian objects of ukraine are fired upon, and by the way, not only civilian objects, what difference does it make to us if they shoot at civilian objects objects or our armed forces, we did not... attack them, this is yet another fairy tale invented by some of our western partners, who say that it turns out that it is possible to shoot at the ukrainian military, on what basis? we are the country that attacked russia, or why do they have the right to kill our military, but this is a rhetorical question, this is a question for our great

theoreticians who sit in some western scientific and analytical centers and suck some absolutely absurd ideas out of their fingers, well, that’s the way it is, so i believe that ukraine’s receipt of a long-range systems, and taurus and... atacoms and so on, it's not really about attack, it's about defense, it's about defense, and about preventing the bombing of ukrainian cities, villages, military facilities, whatever by the aggressor country , so call it attacks, well, my tongue does not turn back, just as attacks are not attacks, the destruction by the ukrainian defense forces, eh... of the same military facilities on the territory of the russian federation, but already by our means, our uavs, of various types and species,

as well as the destruction of the infrastructure that works for the military goals of the aggressor, these are absolutely legal defensive actions of ukraine, although it concerns the territory of the russian federation, well, regarding... the second part of your question, regarding, tell me, regarding ee, regarding the number, in relation to the number of air defense systems, which, in relation to the number of air defense systems, which, which, which we should get, there is nothing to talk about here at all, you are right, you are right, this number of systems that are in the hands of our western partners is enough and more than enough to be calm, that in case some attack by the russians, everything will be under control, but here again, this crazy

fear that moscow might think something, it just, well, turns some of our western partners into, i repeat again, frightened penguins, which, which they run on the ice and... they fly with their wings and they are afraid of what will happen in a second, they should stop being afraid, russia will understand perfectly well when the forces of our western partners appear on the territory of ukraine, when those weapons appear on the territory of ukraine that will really destroy russia's ability to inflict... we have such terrible missile strikes, so this is from the same opera, as they say, mr. sergey, you just need to stop being afraid, well, but you see,

unfortunately, so far both the leadership of the usa and the leadership of germany are afraid of their own, unfortunately . mr. volodymyr, he is afraid of ukrainian attacks drones on strategic objects? on the territory of russia antony blinken, although he admits that ukraine needs a lot of weapons and it is absolutely necessary to provide, as he says, more military aid to ukraine. let's hear what the secretary of state of the united states of america said. our position from the very beginning has been that when it comes to ukraine, we should do everything we can to help it defend itself against russian aggression. but we do not support or encourage it. but hey, we 've been talking about it since the beginning of our program and so on in other broadcasts, we talked with you about the fact that

the western partners are afraid that we will attack those objects that, from our point of view, are important enough for the russians, for the russian army, and they affect the russian-ukrainian course. our western partners are constantly restraining us and saying that it shouldn't be like this, when they will understand that there is a direct connection between what is happening in ukraine and what is happening in the rear of russia. well, you know, mr. serhiy, i honestly, well, to be honest with you, i repeatedly i listened and read this, this piece from blinken's speech, but i... frankly, i can't understand his logic, that is, it turns out that russia can inflict insincere deadly blows on ukraine, and ukraine.

must refrain and in this way provoke these strikes in the future, that is , if you do not destroy the enemy, then he continues to do his evil, nasty work, so i do not understand why america loves russia so much and why it is believed that russia must remain whole, there must remain in normal. in normal conditions of the infrastructure, there should not be destroyed objects from which missile and other strikes are launched on ukraine and so on and so forth, that is, i honestly cannot accept this logic, it is something, something twisted and skewed. i really want our western partners to finally explain their phrases according to these phrases, that is, blinken said

such a phrase, please. decipher it further, and then you just know that, the phrase is said like this, and it is broken, and then think what you want about the reasons for such a phrase, it seems to me that it is necessary to ask journalists to try to bring this logic to the end at press conferences, to ask what do you mean, that is, how to explain it, please, but i think that then there will simply be fewer such phrases, so that they are illogical from the point of view of... well, banal approaches and assessments, it seems to me that such phrases should not exist in principle. absolutely right. mr. volodymyr, one more question regarding our closest neighbor, belarus, lukashenko, who repeatedly frightened the world with the third world war, frankly admitted that he was preparing the country for hostilities, although he says that he does not want to wage war, but he is forced to...

presidential life, after all, i have a lot . i don't want our people to fight, it's for personal reasons, and we don't need anything for the state, i repeat this constantly, we don't need someone else. so, mr. volodymyr, does something in this situation depend on lukashenka, that belarus will not fight, or does he no longer control anything in his state? well, mr. sergey, here is a question so, what to fight and who to fight with? well, are there forces in belarus today that can do something on the battlefield. i will repeat again, i do not comment on the cases that concern. our

military, i trust their assessments, well , these assessments say that there are, to be honest, combat-capable units prepared for real combat operations, well, there are practically none, that is, you understand, it’s one thing to run around the training ground and shoot these empty cartridges and to do a pow-pow, and another thing is to really fight and understand what it is. so but our military experts, whom i trust, convince me that there is no serious force there. yes, they can, the only thing they can do is draw a certain number of ukrainian defense forces, that's true, but get involved in provocations, in those things that will have catastrophic

consequences for them, well, i'm just saying honestly . saying, i do not understand, unless under extremely strong pressure from putin, and when lukashenko will have nowhere to go, but i think that he has demonstrated all these years how much he does not want in fact, to drag belarus into this war, because he understands very well how everything will end for him, and for him personally, because in the end everyone will understand that he is responsible, so i think that, mr. sergey in the majority, in most cases, the continuation of this line of intimidation of the west, you understand, when oskominov has already been stuffed into everyone, this whole trio of them is putin, medvedev, lavrov, well , zakharova also sings along, we need some new face, well, they found it, found him they said, father, come on, and father starts to invent something on the go. freeze, well,

but, but...