have a good, safe and comfortable saturday and sunday, good evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health, for the next two hours we will talk about ukraine, about the world . about the war and about our victory, today in the program. minus six enemy aircraft, a massive drone attack in the rostov region achieved its goal. why is the west still against strikes on the territory of the russian federation? in search of the patriots, the allies will try to recruit additional air defense systems for ukraine all over the world. what other help can be expected from nato? alternative.

formulas of peace. russia is promoting the chinese format of transition, and nato is discussing the accession of ukraine in return for the relinquishment of the occupied territories. are compromises possible? over the next hour, we will talk about this and other things with our guests, major of the armed forces of ukraine, special agent ihor lapin, and oleg rybachuk, the former head of yushchenko's presidential office. in the second part of our program will be. my colleagues, the journalism club, this oleksiy mustafin and andriy yanitskyi. however, before starting our big conversation, let's watch a video of how ukrainian drones attacked three russian military airfields in morozovsk, yeysk and engels at once last night. let's see how it was.

friends, in the course of our program, we are conducting a survey, today we are asking you about this, whether you think of mykhailo. bugakov

is a ukrainophobe, yes, no, please vote on our youtube, everything is quite simple there, either yes or no, write your comment under this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think bulgakov is a ukrainophobe, 0800 211 381, no, 0800-211-382, all calls to these numbers are free, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. and we have our first guest on the phone, this is ihor lapin, major of the armed forces of ukraine, special officer, people's deputy of the eighth convocation. mr. major, i welcome you, thank you for being with us today. glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. major, let's start our conversation with today's strike, a massive drone strike on of russian airfields, the main directorate of intelligence, together with the armed forces of ukraine , organized an operation on the night of april 5, as part of which... strikes were carried out on three

airfields of the russians, in particular in morozovsk, yeisk and engels. it is reported that at least three tu-95ms strategic bombers were seriously damaged at the enels-2 airfield, seven occupants have already died there, bomber pilots may be among them, and two enemy su-25s in yeysk were completely burned. and we are still talking about the destruction of another airfield in kursk, the results of this large-scale attack are still being determined, do you think the pace of ukraine's transfer of the war to the territory of russia is sufficient? oh, well, of course, you know, like all ukrainians, i can say, well, of course we want more, more, more, because , frankly speaking, we are being disassembled into molecules.

a large number of territories and infrastructural facilities have been destroyed in ukraine, recently we also know dniproges and everything, well, that is, the russians are engaged in such terrorist activities. attacks on civilians infrastructure, we in turn dump, we try to dump what we can get, thank god, i am pleased with the range of these hits, i am very pleased, i am pleased that our drones are working accurately, so there is to a certain extent the possibility of countering russian means rebu, and therefore, it means that we are on the right path of development, so it is not yet, so to speak, this... magic silver bullet for the rest of the russian military, but nevertheless, these are the first signs that we can to work, of course, but to chase planes on airfields - these are great topics, especially if they gather there, well, until the very end

they were, so to speak, relaxed, but now of course the russians will try to counter such attacks, and we must also understand this, so we can in this stories to improvise, then we worked at... refineries, now we went to airfields, well, igor lapin has been sitting here and has been dreaming for several months about the new russian transshipment base for russian oil products and ports, the port infrastructure of russia, because that is where the money comes from, and if that, if from there oil goes from there, and money goes there, to russia, and if there is money, then they can rebuild, they can buy and again attack ukraine, the most important thing is that the transfer of the war to the territory of the aggressor's country is a priority task, which we have to achieve as much as possible today, and the second point, we need to hit, well, let's say this, the carriers, well, if we're talking about aircraft now, that's great, but in general, we need to think about how we can hit their launchers , from where they

fire such missiles as the s300, near the border areas of kharkiv oblast or zaporizhzhia, or the same dnipro and so on, that is, we need to... try to further achieve results and also develop our missile program, because the drone flies for a very long time, and of course no launcher will stay there for a day and wait for a drone to fly to it, that is why we need to work on the development of the missile program and on the release of additional missiles, well, we have a good analogue of hymars, the same vilha missile, well, the range is certainly not so great there, but... scientists said that it is possible to increase, i remember these conversations, then we have the capabilities of the neptune missile, which can be reconfigured so that it works not only against ships, but also against land targets, so, well, in this direction it is necessary to move, and we must not forget about our own peregrine missile program, which can hit

very far, and this also needs to be completed, because it was ready, well, it was 75% ready for a long time, well, time goes on, the war continues and we don’t need it also... throw up, that's why i congratulate today's successes, sincere thanks, sincerely say when necessary to criticize, we criticize, but when it comes to thanking the main directorate of intelligence, the security service of ukraine, they did a very good job here. the president of estonia, alar karis , considers ukraine's attacks on military targets on the territory of the russian federation to be legal, if they are connected with strikes on ukrainian civilian and energy facilities. he said this during a meeting with the prime minister. of ukraine by denys shmyhal, the press service of the estonian leader reports that alar karis says: russia does not set limits during attacks on ukraine, so we should not limit ourselves in providing assistance to ukraine, i consider ukraine's strikes on the military and other important

war-fighting targets in the russian body, which are designed to slow down the work of the russian military machine, to be completely legitimate. mr. major, what is necessary for the law of ukraine. on legal attacks, as alar karis said, was recognized not only by one state in russia, or only by the baltic states, or by poland, but also by the whole world? well , you know, experts in the field of diplomacy should probably say it here, but i will say it as a military officer a man, a military man can say yes, we are fighting honestly, we are fighting against the russian military, we are not fighting with civilians, we are not interested in the doctor there. no, kindergartens, schools, as wholes, it's true, that is, but we should definitely be interested in the infrastructure facilities of the russian federation, because they are all tied to the russian military-industrial complex. no matter what we do here. in order for the western world to understand our righteousness, they must

stop questioning the concept of legitimate or illegitimate purpose, which may be connected i will explain the logic of my sentence. our war with fair, the destruction of infrastructure that is connected with russian aggression is fair, well, since the war is fair, then everything is fair, because you know, that's how it turns out, yes, if there is a law. goals, so then there may be some illegal goals, and let's dance, as the dance with bubn says around the discussion already, and which of them can be considered and which cannot be considered? there is a concept of war justice. ukraine defends itself as best it can. russia is not fighting putin against us, but russian the people are fighting against us. zumbed, not zumbed, this is a lyric in general. the question is, who is fighting? putin, the putin regime or the russian people? the russian people, governed by the putin regime headed by putin, are fighting against us, everything, that is, everything that is on the territory

of russia that can be used, not what is used there, but can be used for their military-industrial potential, or their service to the military and so on, it's from wormwood, oil, gas, it doesn't matter, anything that allows them to bring in money in the budget for the manufacture of weapons of ukraine, anything that gives them... to give electricity to the factory also for the manufacture of weapons of ukraine, these are all already legitimate goals, so i believe that the discussion here should stand on the plane, ukraine has the right to defend itself by all methods, or not? so, if we take this discussion to the level of international politics, then no clerk from the united nations is going to tell us about the concern about an attack on russian oil refineries or anything else, for example, you know? from otherwise, otherwise, nothing will happen, well, you all saw that shahedis are made there, the russians

themselves said that these students are involved in the production of shahedis, russian propaganda boasted that they have that factory for the production of shahedis, please tell me the personnel , dormitories, a factory, warehouses with components, is this a legitimate goal for ukraine or not, that's all, if it's a legitimate goal, then we should stop these discussions. on the international arena, but to talk only not about the legality, but to talk only about the justice of waging war on the territory aggressor. full stop: war is precisely what we destroy the enemy's manpower, and whether it is a technician who maintains an aircraft or a designer who assembles a rocket, it does not matter? well, i think so. by the way, as reported by reuters with reference to the conditions of anonymity of the official representative. nato -ukrainian strikes on oil refineries in russia could disable about 15%

of russian oil refining capacity. at the same time, pentagon spokesman pat ryder said that the united states of america did not supply ukraine the means by which the defense forces attack oil refineries and other facilities on the territory of russia. let's hear what he said. the aid we provide to ukraine. intended for it to defend its sovereign territory and reclaim its territory. we do not provide any assistance for use outside of this. i would advise you to visit ukraine to learn about these operations. of course, our focus is on them being able to protect themselves. mr. major, why is the united states of america so afraid that russia's oil refining industry will stop well, look, i didn’t hear that they were afraid there, even specialists already understood that

the russian oil refining industry in no way affects the global trend of energy prices, that is, that this is a drop in the ocean on the scale of, as they say, the world ocean of fuel. why are they afraid, why aren't they afraid, well, we keep hearing the voices of the so-called peace-loving people, who sometimes say that there is no need to irritate putin, there is no need to escalate the conflict. ukraine must be brought to the negotiating table, and so on text, well, these doves of peace are also among the advisers of president biden, who also said that not everything is so clear-cut with russia and ukraine, but i want to say that the question is not whether the military is afraid or not afraid and whether they will will putin do something, will putin do something, or is putin's rhetoric that what he says, he does, he said that he would hand over nuclear weapons for brest, for belarus. for minsk, he said, handed over, handed over, lukashenko confirmed, confirmed, and what, well, where else not to escalate or

escalate? if it decided to blow up kakhovskaya, it blew it up, if it brought tnt to the zaporizhia nuclear power plant, it will blow it up sooner or later. if it says that i transferred tactical nuclear weapons for lukashenka, sooner or later he will transfer them to anyone, because in principle the system of collective security has stopped working, and putin is walking around and, sorry ... with a nuclear club, he scares the whole world, once again i emphasize, the world needs to understand that the sooner ukraine deals with putin, the less likely it is that putin will do something for... in order to ukraine dealt with putin, i mean with the russian army, everything on the territory of ukraine must be completely destroyed, then putin will not have so much potential that he could restore, and if the russian army on the territory of ukraine keeps its lines and as well as capture new ones, at this time when the world will be considering whether to give ukraine the favor or not, why don't they give

ukraine, for example, missile systems there for attacks to destroy the crimean bridge. that's why i can't understand anything that is crimean the bridge continued to drive shit, which is then launched from crimea on the territory of odesa, for example, yes, well, this is not normal, and there are a lot of such things, here are taurus missiles, then shols said that they do not have enough taurus missiles, the manufacturers they say, but we will slander them overnight, issue an order, by the way, taurus manufacturers have stopped the production of missiles because there are no orders, that's all, so when they say that something is missing, it's not true, but when the american ones are... .so-called friends come in like lynsey graham and say that he is silent about weapons, but you should mobilize children at the graduation ball at school, well, as he said, from the age of 18, well , if you consider that our children study at school, as they say, in fact, some boys are under the age of 18, if we we take, well, depending on when he went to school there, then that summonses are distributed already at the school graduation, and at the same time he is very modestly silent about the fact

that the united states, of course, is with us until the end, that is, of course, until the very end so many of us. how much is needed and so on, but american aid has already been in november does not advance, and all these statements are of course related to their internal political discussions, perhaps sometimes fearing their own population that putin will attack, they thus try not to criticize their decisions regarding aid to ukraine, well, for example, it happens there in germany or in poland , perhaps the question here is, you know, let's say this, here they should speak... more diplomats and not military, therefore i am not an expert in the field of diplomacy, i can only express my point of view as a citizen, well, at the level of my knowledge. well, but you are definitely an expert on whether do we need foreign troops on the territory of ukraine or not, because nato secretary general jen stoltenberg, after the meeting of the ukraine-nato council, once again

stated that the alliance has no plans to send troops to ukraine, and kyiv did not ask for it. let's listen to what stoltenberg said. nato is not a party to the conflict and nato will not be a party to the conflict, but nato is providing support to ukraine to help it defend itself. there are no nato combat units in ukraine and we have no plans to do so. we haven't received any requests for this either. but ukrainians they ask for equipment, ammunition, weapons, and we provide them to ukraine. it. does not make nato members a party to the conflict, but we support ukraine's legitimate right to self-defense. mr. major, is it still possible to ask for the help of nato troops in addition to weapons? to this day, i cannot understand why president zelensky does not ask for help

from nato troops. why does the parliament of ukraine not vote for such an appeal? i can not understand. well, that is, you understand. if we are talking now about the appeal to nato, it is possible one story. okay, let's not to appeal to nato so that nato troops, but there is a position of each country separately, namely, for example, the position of france, denmark, the baltic countries, finland, canada, they said that they are considering such an issue, but again, sooner or later they will be considered, but i think that they will consider it more actively if an official appeal is received from ukraine. i can't see why not. i'm sorry, but i'm just sickened by this lack of action in this context, doesn't president zelensky need unnecessary help? well, look, let's talk frankly, for example, the patriot systems together with specialists, with the units that serve them, could occupy the territory of the lviv region and hold the borders, and some

french specialists there together with the sampti, for example, would go... to the kharkiv region, well okay, kharkiv is shooting there, it’s flying in, well, let’s go, okay, not to the kharkiv region, let’s go to zaporizhzhia, a little further behind zaporizhia, we would stop and make an umbrella over the city, it would be a god-pleasing thing, odesa, please, well, yes, yes where to go, well, some unit could go, roughly speaking of france, further, i did not see a problem in nato at the time when the french legion entered africa, there are 10,000 personnel there , we have already discussed with you... their commander, general kyrylo yushchenko, here i would be wouldn't mind if they reinforced our western, our northern border with belarus, and thus freed our units that... sitting there at the border, so that they could rotate the guys around the time of the yar, for example, it would be god willing, i cannot understand why president

zelensky does not make such an appeal, it is not enough moreover, in his interviews he says, as he said there, that ukraine is fighting and don't worry, french, your children will not fight in our country while we are fighting, well, okay, and we can fight forever, you understand , we have mobilization problems, we have personnel problems. warehouse with equipment, and again, problems with trained personnel. if we are talking about the planes, conventionally speaking, which should be given to us by the f-16, then for each such plane we need at least 10-20 service people. why some aircraft maintenance unit could not come here, it is not the front line, it would be a rear unit, he would sit in the rear somewhere at the airfield and so on, he could serve with his specialists, service f-16 aircraft. we can send ours to study abroad for another six months, and in this way we will have fewer specialists in other, in other fields, well, this is wrong, so i believe that president

zelensky should make such an official appeal personally to each country that expressed support in this regard, or at least started a discussion, or to all countries, no all at once, just like the nato bloc, but simply on a separate appeal, and someone will support it, and it will make the struggle easier for us, because i'm sorry. we already have a war, it is already going on, already, well, excuse me, the 11th year, well, we, we, we are already living in a war, we already have those children who went to school there, in the 14th year, went there in some fifth grade there, today they are already fighting in the war, well, yes, this is the same generation, you understand, yes, and in the future, well, there will be a few more years of war, there will still be refugees, and the most terrible thing is that our women who left there with their children, children study there. at school if the war will drag on for longer, they will finish school there, go to college there, and then mom will say, that's it, so many years have passed, son, come on, take your wife, take

your children, my grandchildren, and we're going to ukraine, to restore it , he will say, mother, ours, why should i go there, i am temporarily here in spain, i am fine, a woman, a child, i work for a company, so what am i going to go to ukraine now, i have lived here for 15 years or 10 years, you understand, that is, this thing... can develop in this context, which we need to break faster the crap that has accumulated here, and then our children will return faster, because we are losing, you understand, we can be so humble, well, i don't know how to call it in other words, that we can restore the state, and restore the nation can be so it will happen that there will no longer be any possibility, because the average life expectancy in ukraine is already... it was 67 years before the war, in my opinion, before the full scale, and now it is 57 years, well , we will fight a little longer, and we have a demographic crisis will be very serious, so how are we going to save

the nation if we drag out that war, well of course, not everything depends on us, but i did not hear that anyone during the second world war refused to open a second front, there was the same normandy under the soviet union, no man, the pilots worked and... further, i did not hear that someone refused, i can't understand why the president hasn't addressed it yet, we remember the president's calls for the sky to be closed over ukraine, we all said about it, well, that's right, well, that's one thing to call for, there should be an official paper , request, please send me la-la-la, so much, so many, so and so, so and so, such and such specialists, such and such equipment, well, for example, well, there is already a whole office of the ermak, who can make a competent report. the paper in the language in which it is needed, well, i'm already saying this by way of example, so as not to ruminate in more detail in the details, well, after this , the head of the office of the president of ukraine andriy yermak

said that the blow that ukraine has suffered in the last three weeks is part of russia's campaign to prepare for a major offensive, writes politics, referring to yermak, or rather quotes him: we know that putin is preparing a new wave of mobilization, we believe that russia's new counteroffensive operations... may begin at the end of may or at the beginning of june, of course we must be ready for this, we still critically need additional air defense systems, because without them we we will not be able to protect our cities - he said. at the same time, denys shmygal, in an interview with the estonian tv channel irr, said that the army does not need to mobilize 500,000 people now, and the mobilization in ukraine will be much milder. let's listen to what shmyhal said. the president and i are in control situation, we changed the commander, he conducted an audit of the defense forces, rotations began. on

the front line for the first time since the start of a full-scale invasion. we understand that not so many people are needed now, so the mobilization will be much softer. i think that during this year we will complete all the necessary tasks for the mobilization of ukrainians. we have new brigades, they are manned, but we are waiting for equipment, military equipment and ammunition from partners. when all this arrives, the new brigades will be manned, and we will substantially let's increase our combat. mr. major, zelenskyi and yarma are saying something about the fact that the russian offensive is inevitable, it is june, may, they emphasize this, what do you think the actions of the ukrainian authorities should be, why are they talking, some say that the offensive is inevitable, the prime minister says, well , in general, 500 thousand people do not need to be mobilized, we will get by with a smaller number, and in general, well, that is not what we are talking about. well

, look, zelenskyi, by the way, i also said at the press conference that 500,000 military personnel were invited, but for us, let me be justified, i do understood that the military led by syrskyi did not justify the need for 500,000, well, this is it, if you believe the words that shmlhal says, that president zelensky says, that yermak says and everyone else says, look, i want to tell you without any there complaints, but none the less, already today... battles are taking place near the eastern part of the town of chasivya, held the videivka, then if everything is so good with us, well, then i can't understand why everything is so bad with us. the second point is that there are brigades that are already rotating of course there are, well, 110 were there, for example, lying in avdiivka with no exit, no passage, no exit, for several years and... and it

was torn to shreds there, then they are now on rotation, of course, and what was there to leave, you don’t remember you see, how many people were left in the units, you and i have said this many times, the staffing needs to be better, if shmyhal has people, but no weapons, then i will tell you a few units where there are no people, but there are weapons, well kalash everyone has them, the infantry lives in the trenches, we need shells, shells they are going, so there are shells, shells are going, there are soldiers, kalash, i think, there are also without problems, so what is the problem, why in the units the personnel composition wants to be super much better, because it is very, very bad there, and you know such things, it's like relax, don't worry, instead of mobilizing the citizens' consciousness about the threat of fight or die, they start to relax again, because it will be

possible, it's not popular. they continue to play politics and ratings, but it's time to have fun not into politics and ratings, but to think for the survival of the nation, for the state, and it is precisely in this context that i now understand why the law on mobilization, even if it is voted on in april, i just want shmyhal to come out and - he said to the honest man, to my comrades, he said so and so, people, the reinforcements will be in october, because they will say, alapin, what are you saying that the reinforcements will be in october, well, as i say, if they vote in april, zelenskyi will sign it, there 60 days are given for it all to unravel, there are offices there are conscripts and so on, yes, that is , a certain amount of time will pass, then they will start recruiting people, and then they will have to be sent to the camp for three months, well , add that, and all together it will turn out that there will be reinforcements in october , that's why i don't understand shmygal's position, although in principle, what do i expect, what's the difference, you know, what's the difference,

what's the name of the prime minister. zelenskyi, well, it doesn’t matter to me, zelenskyi said that there is no need for 500,000 at the conference, that he does not see the expediency, because he was not motivated, the president said, well, everyone is one went to repeat, well, what are the problems, they have no problems, the only problems are with the rotation of the personnel for some reason, i know, well, i won’t name the brigades, which have been sitting and lying there without waking for more than a year, well , you understand, they are reinforced with armor and so on, but they don't rotate, they don't rotate, they... you look at the reports of any analysts there who say that such and such a brigade is working in such and such a direction, and see how much is already being said about this brigade by those or other eh, let's say so, storytellers, well, about her already they have been talking about this direction for more than a year, so it has been without rotation for more than a year, well, everything is great, and there are many of them, so for me it is the savagery of not settling the issue of mobilization, it is a very serious problem, and i will tell you, you know,