the incentives that i spoke about are already too attractive, because they have different scopes, and they have different opinions, there is an eye towards india, towards the countries of the persian gulf, australia, there and there maybe there is something else, well, their own, their own american budget is what drives american companies, the american budget is possibly half of all the military expenditures in the world, well , maybe not half, well, almost maybe half, that is, for them it is the most important thing, and that is why they didn't really invest in it, they weren't really interested in this tool, except i think lokida, which nevertheless produces many missiles that are used, for them this is an additional such market incentive, but now when we see that the europeans have started using this mechanism, it seems that a certain competition has begun.

but at the end of the day, the americans, they, well, they don't see it yet, i can't say, they do it consciously, they just gave it to the europeans , well, maybe yes, or they just don't yet think that the money is so big and large-scale, i think this the mechanism will work after there are successful cases in large european guarantors, large european companies, and when we talk about successful ones. the cases are the completion of the construction of the rain metal plant, are there projects with the french, are they the beginning of the production of new samples at ukrainian enterprises, the purchase of these samples by the ukrainian ministry of defense, are these successful cases? well , we now see one successful case about what our partners are writing about, as a ukrainian device, relatively speaking, an electric plane, adapted technical vision, machine vision. with

the help of well this is a subdivision of artificial intelligence, and this thing without radar can fly to not only fly to oil refineries, hit exactly that, recognize exactly that part of this plant, which, which, which creates, well, which allows it to be removed for a long time, well, so long, on unfortunately, such cases are more for military technologies, for those companies. what to do with technology, there's not a lot of money here, there's a technology case, but there's no business case really, well yeah, yeah, actually, it's a technology check, there's really some important, important international companies have proven that their technology works, that it can be used not only in civilian life, but also on the front, this is very important from a technological point of view, but such large weapon cases, i think, after all, this is first of all.. . ammunition and

production and missiles for well what is constantly spent on the front, a large order, if certain significant funds pass through a plant located in ukraine, with investments, or probably with investments, these are already big cases, and when, when rainemetal show everyone that placing plants in the baltic countries, placing a plant in ukraine, it actually... not only gives new orders to the government and the west, but also with greater capitalization, well , this will encourage a lot of people, despite the inertia, i think, still the main thing, why aren't americans here yet with such ideas, it's inertia, they just don't see this mechanism yet. mr. oleksiy, thank you very much for the time you found for our viewers, for your explanations, we hope for further meetings on our air, i will remind the viewers that it was oleksiy yezhak. expert of the national institute

strategic research, and now we are joined by pavlo verhnyatskyi, he is the director and managing partner of the ukrainian company kosa, co-coordinator of the security and aerospace working group of the american-ukrainian business council, mr. pavlo, i congratulate you, i am glad to see and hear the spresso channel on the air. good afternoon, you probably heard a piece of conversation with oleksiy yezhak, who... about the fact that american companies are in no hurry to enter the ukrainian market, they are looking at the experience of europeans, whether the europeans will succeed there or not with the ukrainian defense industry, publications in the foreign press, in particular the new york times, which i mentioned at the beginning, where it is also said that american companies lag behind european ones on the ukrainian market, so you can say against the background of these statements, against the background of these realities, if they exist realities, given that you know in detail. what exactly do

american defense companies think about ukraine and when are they really going to enter the ukrainian market? well, unfortunately, i have to agree with... your previous guest that american companies really aren't very good they are in a hurry, they all present themselves, they all conduct active communications with both the state and the private sector, at the same time it is impossible to say that they are lagging behind the european ones either, because this is the second, unfortunately, er, to say that european companies have already entered very actively and are doing something, too, it’s probably not possible, there are declarations, there are... certain steps, but they all revolve around projects that are quite insignificant from the point of view of industry, at the same time, american companies, we see a certain dynamics, at least we can see how they were a year ago,

in general, they looked at what was happening here from across the ocean, first of all, they directed their efforts to work with... the american governments, so that their equipment ended up in ukraine, in orders for ukraine, but with american money, for today, of course, and against the background of the delay in the adoption of the aid budget for ukraine in the amount of about 60 billion dollars by the congress, and against the background of, well, some kind of elaborate communication in america. companies have started to at least travel, they have already received permits to at least come to ukraine, it is already good, they are physically here arrive, communicate, bring in a fairly good level of delegation, well, delegations are very working such visits, which in principle are good,

not politicized, but specific, specific communication, and for several weeks now we can see how some companies... which have not been here for a very long time, they have already physically sent their colleagues to certain certain negotiations, moreover, from american companies you can note there, for example, a certain activity, and from the giants, you can probably single out boeing, they have been here for a long time and they have representative office, but actually military specialists and a component of boeing, it is significantly different there. from the civilian sector, and they also already have certain activities here, i won't say any details, unfortunately, but something is happening, drone manufacturers, air environment, for example, they also sell drones here at the expense

of american money, er, but they are already setting up some kind of service here, for example, equipment, that is, it is also not bad, these are the first steps, but it is not possible. to have such a large industry, a large industry, for now, and everything in principle, as i already told you once, by the way, everything rests on the market, that is, when we say that or why companies do not enter or enter our market, we must show this market, if we have the budget there is no need to buy back large volumes of weapons, then we only have to talk about potential joint work on foreign markets, well, i think... you know very well what this process is, especially at the moment when there is a war in our country. mr. pavle, we can then conclude that it is de facto american companies, to be honest, it makes no sense to come here, because last year we received 40 billion, we received 13, the rest were received by american

companies at home, the new package is 60 billion, 2/3 will go to american companies, we make weapons for the pentagon, they are supplied to ukraine and to business america. in any case, the company grows without these risks of creating joint ventures, trips to ukraine and other things, and then such a dynamic, well, i think that the americans will be completely satisfied, except for the moment of repairing equipment, servicing equipment, these two small components, which can be solved in principle in a qualitative way due to the training of our military there, and such a model is quite working, if you approach it purely from an investment, investment, let's say. paradigm, there are no illusions here, what is called, but what inspires us in this case, which inspires us with a certain optimism regarding joint some significant industrial projects with american companies, is, oddly enough, politics, and the political component in the arms

business, as you well know , ah, sometimes more important, or at least very important, on at the same level, perhaps, as the commercial component, therefore, taking into account the geopolitical distribution of forces and the changes taking place in the world, the political component can help us a little in terms of joint projects with powerful foreign partners, including the united states. then the question arises, if suddenly the president changes in the states during the elections, will this inertia, or this concession, progress towards cooperation with ukraine be preserved even in those states. headquarters that exist today, we remember somewhere last year that peni pritzker said that well

ukraine is now extremely important for american defense companies, it can offer many joint projects, the statement was heard, we can see the results now that they are peculiar without joint ventures and so on, but the change of power in the united states will affect these trends that were started. under the current president, i don't want to pit one administration against another, but what i can emphasize is that, as you rightly said, under the current administration there is a certain trend, but at the same time there is also a slowdown and not only in the aspect that depends, for example, on the congress, yes, but also in other aspects, this is the transfer of technologies, this is also the special representative... adviser prymin to the strategist, these are other issues, and i do not think that they

are very important depend on the will of this or that particular president, america still has a fairly stable political system, and uh, you know, i don’t want to draw such unequivocal conclusions, including with this hint that i will say now, we got javelins under trump , and we got the first assault weapon from during the trump administration, and to say that if there will be a change, if there will be a new president of the united states, and it will be trump, then it will not necessarily have a negative impact. of course, there are big risks, we all understand, there is the human factor of this particular person, the unpredictability is certain. but with the right diplomatic work, i think we have

a good chance with the new administration, based on the fact that america is still a system, and we are already a certain element, ah, i don't want to blow it up there, but in a sense we are an element of national security of the united states, that we are at war. actually with one of the key, one of the key threats to the united states. mr. pavle, you are meeting with american companies of a defense profile, what do you tell them about the prospects of working with ukraine, start, don't delay, wait, what advice do you give them, how do they react to it? this is a good question in the sense that, well. that we have a broadcast in the ukrainian language, in fact, we all

already got a bite to eat somewhere, yes, and we are working to attract, contact, to establish, we find arguments, how to say, ah, practical, yes for american companies, and first of all emphasis on potential foreign markets. to the fact that we have, ah, well, colossal, not with us, but with the armed forces, colossal experience in the use of weapons, including western ones, and a technological component in the sense that we have an intellectual resource, because it is unfortunately not possible to say that we have some advanced technologies, but there is an intellectual component, there are certain points related to cheapening weapons and competition there potentially with china. on foreign markets and so on, we argue for all this, at the same time, well,

we perfectly understand that we cannot approach this purely as an investment project, but for ukraine this is a big economic issue, that is , the military industry will be, i hope, everything after all, a rather significant element of our economic growth over time, and a plus, i emphasize once again, is the political component, it is important, allies. such as the united states, ukraine needs them, as well as the european ones, of course, and the arms market the arms industry is... one of the elements of close cooperation, mr. pavle, thank you very much for such a diplomatic conversation regarding the prospects for cooperation with the united states, i hope that in our next meetings we will talk in more detail about those projects that have already will appear for that period of time, thank you for your comments, for your correct accents, and

i will remind our viewers that it was pavlo verhnyatsky, director and managing partner of the ukrainian company kosa, co-coordinator of the working group on security and aerospace branch of the american-ukrainian business council. and then we will talk about sweden's experience in creating a powerful defense-industrial complex and what can be used from that experience in ukraine, and how sweden itself views the prospects of cooperation with ukraine specifically in the defense-industrial tsarina, but about this after advertising information block. exclusively on the air of our channel. congratulations, friends, politklub is on the air on the espresso tv channel. the most relevant topics of the week: russia's war against ukraine, the war in the middle east, the crisis in border between ukraine and poland. topics causing resonance in our society: drone attack on kyiv and other cities

of ukraine, drone attacks on moscow and other cities of russia. analysis of the processes that change the country and each of us, the country should get the right to start negotiations on joining the eu. vitaly portnikov and guests of the project: we are bored, because there is nothing to fight about, let's invent, they help to understand the present and predict the future. for the world, a second trump presidency will be terrifying. a project for those who care and think. political club. every sunday at 20:10 at espresso. verdict with serhii rudenko from now on in a new two-hour format, even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you you can express your opinion on the evil of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhiy rudenko,

every weekday, from 20 to 22 on espresso. congratulations! this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already approached the serpent himself. the following the footage may shock you. live news from the scene. kamikaze drone attacks. political analytics objectively and meaningfully. there is no political season. exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front. shot. freedom life, frankly and impartially. you draw your own conclusions. events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives. of course, the news feed reports on them, but few know what is happening. it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskyi and invited experts soberly assess the events, analyze them, simulating ours

future. every saturday at 1:10 p.m., with a repeat on sunday at 10:10 a.m. studio zahid za. vasyl zima's big broadcast, two hours of airtime, two hours of your time, two hours to learn about the war and what the world is like, two hours to keep up with economic news and sports news, two hours in the company of your favorite presenters, presenters who to many people , the events of the day in two hours, vasyl zimi's big broadcast, became like-for-like, as well as honored guests of the studio. a project for the intelligent and those who care about espresso in the evening. we continue our program "war and weapons". in this issue, we talk about how to make more weapons for ukraine together with foreign partners, especially technological weapons, which should be much better than what our enemy has. and now we will talk about it using the example of cooperation with

sweden . and now we have yuriy voytenko, the head and founder of the company, on the phone. wireless p2p technology is a company in sweden, but it was founded by ukrainians, the company produces high-tech products that are already used both in sweden itself and in nato countries. mr. yuri, congratulations glad to see and hear you. in return, thank you, i congratulate you. i would like to make such a small retrospective, because sweden transferred to us a significant amount of technological weapons, there are howitzers, archers, bmp cv-90, a significant amount of anti-tank weapons. means, but i want to do something joint, and about two months ago, it seems, the president of ukraine was at a conference in sweden, because he spoke about what is joint. production with sweden is a priority for us, and i am sure, says zelensky, that a day will come when you and i will be able to see the opening of the first

of joint production - the head of state said then. the point at which we are now, in accordance with this goal, how the defense industry in switzerland in general now perceives the prospects of working with ukraine. er, well, a complex question, in general. perceives it quite positively and there are quite specific examples where swedish companies, in particular the same saab or byy systems, or they have, in principle, already made a final decision for themselves that this is how they cooperate with i just don't know who the counterparty is in ukraine , probably how ukraboronprom, or one of the big players, but in principle there are already positive signals. such cooperation, that is, it has begun, by the way, you are talking about who the counterparties are, i am talking with representatives of our analytical structure, with representatives

of the american side, they ask the same thing, we sometimes do not know who our counterparty is in solving those or other projects, so what is this achilles' heel, i hope, first of all , of the ukrainian side, which should get rid of it, but is the market interesting at all? ukraine for sweden, because sweden is self-sufficient, and actually talking about the need to expand sales markets there at the expense of ukraine, it looks somehow, well, sometimes not quite appropriate in view of the capacities and projects implemented by swedish companies, well, i absolutely agree, in principle sweden is one of the largest exporters of weapons in the world, i don't know what level there is, it is the fifth or sixth place in the world in terms of volume. arms export is an almost 100% export-oriented military-industrial complex, although there is also an own order, and now it has more or less doubled there

, but the question here is what it is, you have to understand what ukraine itself can provide to the swedes, where is the point of synergy, for what or cooperation, it is not just a market, but the swedes are something. produced and conditionally sold to ukraine, it must be understood in the context of cooperation that the ukrainian side is so interesting for the swedish companies to jointly produce some high-tech product, we can talk about it, there are certain developments, then the question arises, what is so interesting in ukraine, what can be interesting for sweden, because you have been trying and communicating with our defenders for, i don't know, seven or eight years. enterprises, so what is interesting in ukraine for sweden? eh, well, actually my case may not be so interesting, although it is a very

niche story, a very niche product, uh, now it is very interesting from the ukrainian side to sweden that they are considering a very interesting aspect, this is real experience, or feedback, like it is fashionable to say from the field. because the huge amount of weapons that were produced in nato countries, conditionally, now not only in in sweden, in the united states, in the uk, anywhere, it turned out that there are questions, there are questions about tactics, there are questions about performance characteristics, there are questions about the moral obsolescence of certain types of weapons, not all of them, of course, but there are such questions, so this feedback, which comes directly in real time from the battlefield, is the most valuable thing that ukraine can give sweden now. company and they, believe me, understand it quite well, that is, we are talking about the fact that the use of haobs archer, bmp cv90, anti-tank weapons is now

being carefully studied by the swedes, so that the next to make the iterations of these weapons even more technological, taking into account the challenges that they saw on the battlefield, well, this is a small example, enlau after certain... problems with batteries, batteries, yes, batteries that are included in the kit, certain processes began, and i know there are some projects out there to upgrade these enlau batteries because they're just, well, even if they've reached their shelf life, they just haven't lived up to the performance that they've been designed for, here's a specific example, how feedback came in and the swedes began to work on... began to work on this problem, and what should ukraine actually do to interest sweden in such a systemic partnership until the exit of joint

ventures. to offer contracts, to offer some kind of improved financial conditions, what is systematically lacking, that, well, does not give the synergy effect of the level we expect? well, first of all, of course, the planning horizon, because all swedish companies, the same sap, or any, they work on extremely long horizons, the same enlau was probably developed there for five years or more, and there is a certain procedure for all this. certain contracts with the fmv or directly there with some customer, by the way, it is good that in ukraine there is finally an analogue of the fmv or the procurement nspa of the youth purchaser, this is very well perceived extremely positively, because there is a specific algorithm for submitting a commercial proposal, how to get an invitation to a tender, how to cooperate with state institutions in ukraine, that is the next question without without...

definitely something that is a certain problem for of swedish companies, precisely in cooperation with ukraine, this is what is called plm, or product life cycle management, that is, they did not just deliver a bunch of enlaves or a bunch of some equipment, but also personnel training, support for this product, long-term support for this one. production of equipment, updates, a lot of software that changes every day, it needs to be updated, that's it, in principle, this is a well-established practice here, but i'm not sure that there is something similar in ukraine, because, for example, you can put on modern radar and then don't update the database of waveforms and he simply won't see what he should

see in principle, purely according to... our characteristics, so this synergy, this life cycle management, it should also somehow be implemented in this cooperation with ukrainian companies, and finally i would like to ask, it seems that three different officials during the years of the war came to sweden, talked about global projects, about global desires, what happened after the conclusion of these visits, that is, whether there was any real continuation, because i am afraid that this, in fact, this habit of visits still formed the basis of such good real system interactions, is it still possible today? well, let's put it this way, it's not a binary logic, something somewhere in the middle, but of course there were visits, there were very loud slogans there, it's all great, certain processes, as i

said at the beginning of... have started, but the potential of the swedish industry is so big, which could have been better, actually. well, mr. yurii, i don't want to end the conversation on this, i want to do better, what positive things are there now in working with sweden, which really help ukraine on the battlefield, how many pins? okay, definitely, well, there are specific contracts that are being executed, and the supply is planned for several years in advance, so... in certain niches, everything is going normally there, the production is developed, it has basically already reached certain parameters, in terms of quantities, in terms of by dates, by shipments, there are certain channels, how it is done, therefore supply, therefore, in principle, this and that is normal, just the potential is so great that you could actually overwhelm with these weapons, if you prepare in advance,

but in principle it is also. the process is going normally, let's say so, but considering how, what are the products, what is the nomenclature, everything is fine there, everything, but it can't be opened a little, but now it seems that a big meeting is going to be held between the swedish defense industry association and a number of of ukrainian defense companies, again there to exchange experience, what kind of event it will be, what may be the result after such an exchange of views... at the current stage of hostilities with the russian federation, well, i say, an extremely interesting experience, how the modern is changing chaff, because many systems that are already, shall we say, morally obsolete , are in service, they must be removed, something should be put in place of them, and for this it is necessary to understand what modern threats actually are and what, in principle, the tactics of application are, especially this is interested