we return to the saturday political club and we already have a new guest, so we have a guest, yes, we will see him now, this is volodymyr okhryska, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-2009, head of the russian research center. congratulations, mr. volodymyr, congratulations, mr. vitalya, mr. andrii, good health, so there will be money in the united states, tell me, please, that's all, maybe now everyone will ask when they will be, someday , someday. will be, the question is only when you see what is happening, how much everything is it really came to a dead end, and here mr. johnson has a really deadlocked situation, because if you go to the left, you will lose your life there, if you go to the right, you will be killed, that is, it will be more or less the same thing, so let's wait, the drama is growing, let's see, sir.

volodymyr, what do you think, conditionally speaking, now there are two options, the first option is to submit to the congress, the lower house of the parliament, the american bill, actually the one that was voted by the senate. we understand that the situation here is a bit of a stalemate, and the republicans, at least their radical part does not really want to bring this draft law to a vote. there is a second option, this is actually the one that johnson allegedly proposes, when bill number two will be de facto formed, in which there will be part of the funds on credit, part of the funds, as they say, irrevocably, yes, and actually , if we look these two options, nevertheless, at least one of them is a probable state for ukraine at the moment, and most importantly, in what terms, whether we are talking about days, whether we are talking about... weeks, or we are talking about

months, when ukraine still won't be able to receive this aid, and it will be further blocked by various, well, such political, political, i would say nuances that are currently appearing in the lower parla chamber of the us parliament. well, mr. andriy, if i had known, i would have won the lottery several tens of millions of dollars, i think it would be a completely understandable story. and... unfortunately, nobody knows, neither i know, neither you know, nor johnson himself, i don't think he knows anything, because the situation has really reached a political impasse, and neither party wants to to give way, how will it affect us, and it is absolutely clear, in the most negative way, if we continue to continue this political campaign, i'm sorry in advance. well, not

us, our american partners, then this will mean that the situation can become really dramatic for us, you see, the europeans are trying to compensate for something like, well, additional allocations of additional plans, you see, toltenberg is talking about some kind of fund, but this is again , it is still a conversation, when it will even be approved, it is not known, some says in washington, well, but it will be already in july, and what about july? and what if the money appears after the decision is made tomorrow, yes, definitely not, this is again a delay, in a word, it is a very unpleasant situation, you see, we expected that in the first days of january the aid will be voted on, and we will receive the necessary money, but, you see, our situation is such that, unfortunately, we are against the axis of evil that has formed, where the poles are moscow and beijing. another

axis was forming, the axis of fear, the poles of which, unfortunately, were washington and berlin, that is why it all revolves around this thesis, if our nato partners really had more determination and less fear, it seems to me, and this topic could be closed as quickly as possible, unfortunately, this is not happening. tell me, mr. volodymyr, what do you think about this fund? nato for 100 billion, which was proposed to be created by the secretary general of the north atlantic union, jen stoltenburg, was discussed in recent days during the summit dedicated to the 75-75th anniversary of the formation of the north atlantic treaty organization union, well, we can clearly see hungary's position on this or that decision, but it could have been predicted quite easily. how do you feel about such an idea? well , you know, from what i hear from... our

western friends, the idea now is to synchronize ukraine's course towards the european union and nato to a certain extent, so that at least these... processes take place more or less in parallel, the decision of the european union about 50 billion euros over the next four years was very positive for ukraine recently, somewhere this fund, which offers stotenberg reminds us of something similar, and here it seems to me that we do not need to give it up in any way, it is on the contrary that in the long term we can do without... the only question is, mr. vitaly, whether it will be implemented in the near future, because in we simply lack this time, we don't have it, and if it will only be discussed for a long time at the beginning, then implemented for a long time,

then this precious time for us will simply be lost, and the idea itself seems to me to be extremely interesting, necessary, the only thing that... . if you count what the nato countries have, in their in their warehouses, in their hangars and so on, you know, you can do with much simpler solutions, but for this you need political will and the absence of fear, i return to the same thesis again, the thesis, unfortunately, not that very often our partners are not there, they are afraid, another interesting... such a controversial topic is putin and idil. putin de facto protects idil and does not recognize that the actual terrorist attack in kroc city hall was actually organized by idil residents. and we can see how the entire propaganda is here, and personally

putin, and all of his people, all of his entourage, are just foaming at the mouth and trying to justify their actions, trying to essentially shift all responsibility to ukraine. demonstrate that these are ukrainians and, accordingly, in this way strengthen to a certain extent military, such warlike, pro-war sentiments, right? in this case, after all, what goal is putin pursuing in the final case, and will the russian leadership itself succeed in continuing to play this game regarding the innocence of the case and the guilt of ukraine. and in the end, how will it affect us in the end? well you see, mr. andriy, well, for me, at least, there is no great doubt that the fsb is behind this terrorist attack, as it once was, and

mr. vitaly, i think, remembers this perfectly, in his time in moscow, and in other countries, when putin needed to mobilize his population. what about the next, so to speak, exploits, so that now the moscow propaganda does not speak, there she looked for a ukrainian trace, found, found photos of a ship that follows a known course and so on, and considered this as evidence, well, that's it, so sewn up with white threads that there is not even a mention of it, it makes no sense to say that putin actually has already received, he really received a surge. of this pseudo-patriotism, because you see that a lot of these intoxicated russians are going to the military, signing up for the front, talking about the fact that we will we will pray for for for for for krokus, and so

on, without taking into account a million factors, who say that the initiators were actually the kremlin authorities, but we... understand that russian logic and the logic of a person with common sense are parallel straight lines that never cross, what should we expect, what putin was counting on, another surge of chauvinism, a surge of cheer-patriotism in russia, what putin actually predicted from the very beginning, therefore, the only thing that is me. .. lyus, this is what our liberal western countries are picking up somewhere in these formal sympathies, russia, which wants to present this moment and is presenting it, actually now, as the fact that the whole world is in solidarity with it, that the whole world

should gather around the idea of ​​struggle with terrorism, and russia is not the aggressor here, in fact victim, this is another version of this... informational special operation, and here we must recognize and give credit to this territory, it conducts these operations quite efficiently in this regard, well, there are important ones here. comment, if we believe that the federal security service of russia is involved in this terrorist act, how did the united states know about its preparation and organization, which even named krokushi hall among the specific objects that may be under attack, and this, mr. vitaly, i think it is explained quite simply, because the executors were not russians, but the executors were people from far away, maybe even close... er, tajikistan, and there, i think that

american intelligence and not only that, not only american, work quite effectively, and to intercept the messages that go between one and the other, well, in fact, it is not so and not so difficult, that is why there are many things that are still not fully clarified, but there are already too many inconsistencies, why, for example, if this crocus has several hundred meters from the fsb station, from the russian guard, from the police and so on, no one came there for 40 minutes and pretended that nothing was happening there, why, when it had already started, the guards, which are usually there, did not appear there, moreover , they were armed to the teeth, many things that... indicate that , that it was not just like that, it was possible

to get people out so that they did not die from a fire that suddenly broke out, well , imagine, setting fire to such a space where seven or eight 10 thousand people are gathered there, you don’t need one canister, right , but there were only four of these attackers, however, it was not visible that any of them ran with this canister or canisters. well , there are too many things that do not connect with the general concept, so i think that fsb ears are definitely present there, and we will still spend time buying into this information, but in terms of propaganda, putin needed it by 150%. mr. volodymyr, if according to your version, this is still ... done by the federal security service of russia, in principle, i am also

plus or minus to this, maybe i am inclined, and then why does part i also, in fact, turn out like this, ahead of putin, he takes responsibility for carrying out this terrorist attack, and another very important detail, which in principle can be noted, is what patrushev states, i quote: the usa created an idol. and together with ukraine organized a terrorist attack, that is, how is this all, conditionally speaking, can be related, why is it also beneficial for idil to take responsibility in this case? well , look, today, before this case , an ideal appeared, well, actually, something long forgotten, not very effective, and hardly something that was paid attention to, and suddenly such a gift, and you can say that you are worth something and can organize such large-scale provocations, terrorist attacks, far

from your own, so to speak, cells and so on, well, this is advertising for which you have to pay very dearly and very a lot, everything just falls into place for you here and you say yes, yes, that’s us, here it seems to me that everything is more than made up, and what patrusha says, well, listen, well... we must finally understand that any words uttered by representatives of the russian authorities must be multiplied by zero, this is all absolutely on the contrary, if you want to understand what is happening there, just draw a conclusion that is exactly the opposite of what is being said in moscow, and you will be somewhere close to the situation. tell me, mr. volodymyr. do you think that when french defense minister sebastien lecornu talks to russian defense minister sergei shoigu, it is not because

they are afraid that moscow may provoke this type of terrorist attack, let's say, at the olympics in paris, yes, mr. vitaly, but doesn't medvedev threaten directly, even without any diplomatic deviations, sorry for that this is the word that dear friends and... in paris , the bad macron, as he calls him in his last words, can attack you in paris, and they can organize a terrorist attack, and you can be killed there, and you... far from being a friend, but a bitter enemy, well, so, here it is again, well, well, well, well, directly, someone speaks about it less openly, well, but we know that there is a person, you can't call them anything else, which are used as vats of evil in order to pour out this or that information, and once again, i'm back here again, already

for the third time on this topic, intimidate the west, intimidate its elites. in order for them to think that it is better for us to cede the territory of ukraine, somehow larger or smaller, than to deal with uncontrolled, completely inadequate criminals, but with nuclear weapons in their hands, and another, in principle, very important topic, already more our internal, although also connected with'. russia actually accuses russia in absentia of the head of the sbu, the kid, not only him, but many other ukrainian officials who are related to the power bloc. we we understand very well that it essentially means nothing, that it is essentially just an informative demonstration of the fact that we

are doing something there, that we somehow influence something there and demand something. why do they... do it, if even, even from the point of view of some logic, it looks extremely funny, well, it is funny for you and me, mr. andriy, and funny for normal people, and for the population that inhabits this territory, it is it's not funny at all, it's normal, it means that we, the authorities, consistently follow our line, and we will fight against these ukrainian nazis, fascists there and so on and so on. here is what is perceived quite normally by the population itself, that is, i will clarify, that is , the russians believe that one day they or their so-called weakness will reach out with their own hands to certain ukrainian military personnel, ukrainian high-ranking officials, and so on and the like, as i understand it, well, of course

they believe, and they believe that this is the only right solution, and they will... fight for it and they will die just to ultimately defeat the neo-nazi regime that has taken over ukraine, absolutely true. thank you, thank you, mr. volodymyr, volodymyr okhriska, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-2009, head of the russia research center was in touch with us. now we will talk with orientalist mykhailo yakubovych, we will talk about the recent elections in turkey, sensational elections, one might say. congratulations, mr. mykhailo. good evening. well, then, for the first time. for many decades, the justice and development party, which is led by president recep tayyip erdogan, has been defeated in elections. the people's republican party, the party associated with the name of the founder of the republic of turkey, general mustafa kemali atatürk , is winning by a margin in this election, and with such a percentage that it has not had at all in its entire, i would say the history of the last

decades, is it already the end of the era of erdogan , or is it just a struggle for now, which... it is clear how it will end in the years to come? no, this is far from the end of the era, it is a certain signal, moreover, these are local elections, and not always those who are in local elections votes for some candidates, looks at their partisanship in general elections, and even more so in the elections of the head of state, that is , a person can vote for the opposition in local elections, but before that, not wanting to... you see kilychdaroglu at the head of the state actually vote for erdoğan. another issue is that internal control, i.e. it is a matter of infrastructure, business, and investment there, is often transferred from the hands of the akparty to the opposition, and for example, the opposition will also hold the majority in istanbul and in other

cities where the margin is over 10%. here. already new personnel appear, new, old, conditionally, the same ekrem and mamogluz in istanbul, who are now, well, predicted not just victory, but very significant positions in the next elections, i.e., since erdogan is a charismatic leader, the appearance of any others, if they take advantage of this, it is a direct threat to him, even not so much the mood there is party, but there are certain signals, and erdogan is already reacting to them, for example, he is trying to... improve relations with biden, with the west, in general, here is putin so i still haven't come to him, so he still has a certain problem here opportunities, foreign policy. which in time will change there so very significantly, except that there will be variations again, which are far from the first year and not the first time.

there is a lot of talk now about the so-called operation of erdogan's successor, and actually this successor is called zyatya selchuk, selchuk bayraktar, his name and surname, i think it is known to many ukrainians, yes. on the actual unmanned aerial vehicles, which we discussed so often at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, if we coming back to this successor operation, this means that in 2028 erdogan may no longer run for president and in fact promote his son-in-law, who, by the way, is quite influential and quite rated, if you look at it. according to polls, in fact he occupies one of the top places there and can, conditionally speaking, replace erdogan, yes, in a few

years, here is your opinion, as far as it is possible, well, to make forecasts now for the 27th-28th year, it will be very a great optimist, this is the first, and the second moment, however it may be, the following years will pass under such intimidation of the third world war, major global conflicts, terrorist threats, and if erdogan manages to convince his electorate that such an approach is necessary, that is, the renewal of power, but the preservation of all these security guarantees for the turkish people, that is , that turkey is in the western bloc, and turkey at the same time does not participate in any such military actions. which are not directly threatening, such as syria, yes, it is quite possible, but now we are forecasting the 27th-28th year, and i think it will be even

thankless business, especially since the appearance of new politicians is possible, the promotion of the same ones they already have, for example, kylych daroglu, no one would have thought five years ago that he would win almost half of the votes in the turkish elections, immediately he won and left from politics, that's why turkish politics here is not for... it is always so predictable, let's not forget that turkey is not russia, it remains a democratic country, despite all its disadvantages. by the way, this is such an important point, i think, mr. mykhailo, because many people are in favor these decades of erdoğan's rule have lost this understanding that turkey's political landscape can change so seriously. it seemed that erdogan succeeded in creating a system of so-called managed democracy, where there are elections and there is never a change of power. yes, on the one hand, and we can see that its neighboring countries are far from democratic, let's start with the same azerbaijan, well, they are also

holding elections, further east, the situation there is clear, turkmenistan, then, in general, the turkic world, he mainly relies on such chiefdom, this exists, it is a very complex geopolitical and cultural phenomenon, but in the case of turkey, we still know that democracies work in... places, it is a market economy in a country with such developed trade relations, investments in business with such export import balances, it will be extremely difficult to imagine it as undemocratic, its market, its tourist infrastructure, everything else, that is, yes, there is a certain limit to which authoritarianism operates, there is persecution of dissenters, there are certain force decisions, there are... not unstudied or vice versa not the issues of the so-called coup of the 15th year were revealed, there are also other issues, but we see that

the turkish people, especially the urban population, they remain faithful, well, to this kemal tradition, that is, the idea of ​​oneself as a citizen, a citizen who has rights appropriate, the citizen who must go and vote, from young to old participation in politics. so it happens with local such cultural accent, turkish rallies, then elections, everything related to political campaigning, it's extremely noisy, specific, but it is there, that is, it is already a layer of turkish culture, not only political, but also everyday, and to imagine that turkey is turning into the same azerbaijan, or somewhere even bolder, well, this is only in the case of some very powerful, internal and external. .. challenges, they are there, and external threats, as well as the earthquake that shook turkey, but the reaction to it was, accordingly, one that was still somewhat problematic, and... in such

key moments of a working democracy, one of the other the main such international events, which in fact, including what was often discussed here in ukraine, i believe that this is also one of the very important news and events that happened this week, this is the attack by the israeli armed forces on the iranian embassy in damascus, right? in this facility, at this facility, several high-ranking officers died there, it is alleged that there are two generals, five lower-ranking officers, and then it begins, after that, information about a possible response from iran, israel and not only intensifies israel, actually those forces that support israel, all essentially informational...

the space is shaking from the fact that here and there, now 48 hours, now 72 hours, yes, here in this context, what should we expect, will iran escalate, or will it wait for a certain moment in order to hit, yes, and how israel will act in the future in this context, because this is essentially both a political and a military pin... pong, he can also extremely hit the world order, and therefore also for ukraine, including support for ukraine. well, first of all, netanyahu's government and military-political affairs the leadership of israel knew very well, found that when it struck, especially a strike on a structure that was actually part of the iranian consulate, this was a serious step, and israel perfectly understood what iran was going

to do. at least certain statements and certain actions. who is? zahidii? one of the leaders of the islamic revolution guards corps, who was destroyed there. this is a man comparable in scale to the late suleimani, one of the key chains in the relations between iran and palestine, in particular the hamas movement, then hezbollah in lebanon. that is, it is quite an important figure, and israel, of course, knocks out such figures. 48 hours have already passed, the iranian response, which was predicted by ballistic drones directed at israel, is hardly possible, quds day has passed, the so-called jerusalem day in iran, which they celebrate or mark, every year there were many slogans about the fight against world zionism , anti-americanism and various intelligences and so on, this is classic for them, but at the

moment it is expected most likely... a strike on some israeli proxy, last time similar actions were answered by kurdish forces resistance in iran, and now the negotiations between raisi and asha, who is the prime minister of iraq, are taking place, and it is obvious that somewhere they are agreeing on joint actions in that region, that is, i particularly expect an answer in the same way regarding iraq from the pro-western forces there in the north or in syria by pro-western, in particular kurdish forces. which iran constantly accuses of cooperating with israel, perhaps the houthis will be armed with something, that is, it will most likely be a proxy response, i would not expect direct attacks here, because israel would hardly take such a risk now, if it were oil has already jumped to the corresponding value, it is almost 90, so certain market mechanisms are also at work here, which, well, it is difficult to say who

benefits... and who does not, but it is obvious that for oil exporters, the situation here is one that they can still control, i.e. this is one of those steps in the general confrontation between israel and iran, like on a large chessboard, where they will move certain pieces, but as long as they have key players and the existence of the states themselves is protected, that is, they will not fight directly, the iranians are unlikely to they can allow and they should not do this from the point of view of purely security considerations, as many analysts note, so we expect more of these proxy wars. well , here is the question, mr. mykhailo, iran now has a choice, it needs to respond to the death of general zahadiya, we saw that they are just arranging a ceremony.