it turns out that they are to blame for the lost, for the lost war, so this is not a tribute to official demands, but the sincere truth has been removed and suffered, i am all in the anthem, but i am not responsible for this, but those misfits are responsible, and shevelyov says, this is wild dostoevism, which is very similar to the truth, is this interpretation of dovzhenko close to you? it is very interesting and maybe it is important even for us in a broader sense for understanding ourselves, and here i can't help but think about if kvn, which is present in our lives, yes, what we are , as it were, and we are some kind of intellectual part does not like him, but a large part of society likes it, it is like such self-mockery. and self-mockery, here is really

such a valuable idea that we are laughing at them because they did not win, if they could not with their, i don’t know, their background, they could not brag, and that is why they need to be portrayed that way, although dovzhenko , he was always ironic, he, his first films, he wanted to make comedies, the first films there were vasya the reformer and... berry of love, these are typical, by the way, of european silent cinema shtibu, because in zvenigore and in the arsenal and in zemlya, dovzhenko is already inventing his own language, but these two films, vasya the reformer and yagidka, they were so typical with make-up, they were urban stories, they were very playful stories, but really there are people from such a bourgeois class, they looked weak. not very nice, and

on the posters dovzhenko also drew bourgeois in the claws of the soviet government, he also drew them unsympathetic and unattractive, and i actually remember his kharkiv period, when he also published political cartoons in the visnyk publishing house painted on unattractive petliura, vennichenko, skoropadskyi, i.e. people who were supposedly close to him in value, but let's see. for the next film zemlya, which is , of course, the most famous ukrainian film in the world now, yes, which brought world fame, dovzhenko brought, a film about collectivization, which was supposed to glorify collectivization, but showed absolutely the opposite, yes, showed the disconnection of people with the land, with the roots and with nature.

and now this film earth is released, and i understand that it has been in the box office for nine days and counting on the ninth day, an article by the kremlin trumpeter demyan bedny is published, i just can't resist, i quote demyan bedny, he writes such a devastating article in the news, and in particular, he writes the movie piece zemlya ilya. to which dovzhenko reacts in such a way that he wanted to die at first, and at the same time, in parallel, parallel to this abomination written by damian bedny, suddenly such a movement begins, so in the world, so he recognizes this film, dovzhenko becomes. a star abroad in europe,

america and so on. what, how, how do you think, what is the strength of this film, what was the innovation here earth, which is how the world suddenly perceived this. the film, it became for many, if not instructive, but it became an example of her view of nature, probably, and, in this film, you can feel a kind of dovzhenkivskaya task, and the gap is very strongly felt there, such an impression , that he is already beginning to doubt his impulse, that is, it is such a story about not being yourself and losing yourself, and this dualism, maybe he, well, if he strengthened the voice of this film. yes, by

the way, this is a very interesting thought, and the soviet authorities immediately felt it, this dualism and this break with himself, maybe it's because the film featured, well, you're now asking why... the film was so popular, it featured dovzhenko, he still couldn't, no matter how much he tried to play along with the authorities somewhere , to like or play in such a revolution of reshaping its inhabitants and trying to raise them to a higher level, and now i ’ve lost my mind, well, i’ll come back, but there it is... but dovzhenko was a pantheist in his essence, that is, he was not a christian , or very atypical, lost faith while studying, probably, but he was completely embedded in nature, and for him nature is this, that was

everything, and if you look further there, then the film of evange, who filmed the construction of dniproges, and... together with the tapes of other directors, uh, this reminds of such a very painful realization that something is wrong with us , and we are being led somewhere wrong, and they are trying to change us to the point of destroying us, so that we are gone, and there are these typical ukrainians in the land, who, if something is needed to make them, or change them, or hide them away from civilization. there are already people of a new generation, and there are simply the great nature that captures all this, against the background of which it takes place, where there is almost such a mythical thinking, where an old person in goodness goes to another world, where there is a naked woman,

which was also a very, revolutionary move at the time, and it was his wife, it was yulia sontseva, who later, with whom... he went on to work a lot in moscow, she was his assistant, and then she grew up to be an independent director. if we have time, i will also ask you about yuliya sontseva, but before that i want to ask about, you said that you flirted with the authorities, for the relationship between stalin and dovzhenko remains a kind of paradox for me, why stalin did not destroy dovzhenko like kurbas, like this entire generation, why... he even saved him several times from dovzhenko's words, so dovzhenko thought, why? i think you can only fantasize here, because we don't know what was in stalin's mind, and what, what, what did stalin admire dovzhenko in your opinion? here is yerena tsymbal, and

the researcher is a literary critic, she believes, she is a researcher of the actual shot revival and she believes that because of the fact that dovzhenko was so authoritarian himself, uh, so he was... composed by the government and the authoritarianism of stalin himself seemed to attract him, stalin was attracted to his figure. it is a valid opinion, since he was a director, he could well have been attracted to this figure from an anthropological point of view, yes, because he was undoubtedly an outstanding personality, but i now have the thought that it is possible that dovzhenko, when... . this repressive flywheel has already begun to spin, ugh, maybe he had some illusion that he would sacrifice himself, and well, that is, if he took sides, so would say, evil, then it will be like such a ritual

sacrifice, and maybe others will suffer less from this, maybe he somehow believed that he could influence the situation and persuade, maybe he... that his art affects stalin, and stalin will listen to him, but this, this is now my assumption, because dovzhenko... it seems that he constantly doubted this decision, and i saw such an opinion that stalin, for example, offered him to move to moscow in the year 33, it seems , dovzhenko, you left, he offered him in order for dovzhenko not to see the famine that is happening in ukraine, so that he could not somehow be a witness to it, very close, although dovzhenko could not help but know, of course, that his parents were here, but his, yes, parents were here and it... touched them, but in the 32nd year he filmed ivan on the dniproges,

ugh, which also fell on the shelf, although it was shown at the venice festival, it was the first at the first festival in venice, and it is possible , the fact that both zemlya and ivan were enlightened abroad also played a role here, they were seen there, as in the case of peradzhanov, when the publicity ... of this film, which did not manage to be hidden in time, raised the voices of the world film community, and perhaps that is why dovzhenko, well, they got away with it in this way, and the next film after the 32nd , it was already the 35th year, the aerograd, which he filmed on mosfilm already, for according to the idea of ​​stalin, in fact, maybe this was one of the reasons for the same, so i agree with you that i also think that because of his world fame and because stalin could... complete, it seems to me, and

with regard to erograd and shchors, because each time it was also stalin’s idea to film the ukrainian chepayev in this way, as if yes, and there in both films, in principle , it is very, very well traced, if in the land there is there are still hesitations, and there are a lot of them in ivanna too, there are hesitations in between, well, that's what an artist is. understanding whether what is happening here is good, whether this transformation is good and where it leads, because dovzhenko puts these doubts in the mouths of his characters, they certainly do not look very motivating for those who whoever starts to build, aerograd and shchors, they are already quite like that, they are not a reflection of reality, they are clear structures, as it should be, and megalomania is very well written in aerograd. and here is such a desire for something gigantic, gigantic

, great, majestic, to conquer, to take away, to conquer, ugh, and this is also something that is not characteristic of ukrainians, i also planned to ask you to talk about, in my opinion, the most tragic scenario of dovdzhenko, which is called ukraine on fire, is a script, a film script, which he wrote in 1942, if i'm not mistaken, yes, we found his address where he says these words ukraine is on fire, it's at the beginning of the war, he addresses as if with an appeal, it seems interesting to us just to look at the temperament of oleksandr dovdzhenko. ukraine is on fire. in our wide spaces, so beautiful and joyful in the recent past. cities and villages have been burning nonstop for two years now, movileten

jokers illuminating the great tragedy of our time. listen to the contemporaries of the great era, ukrainians who are surrounded by the fire of ukraine. the decisive time of the liberation struggle is coming, we will even worthy sons of their great time. in general. in this movie script, you know what 's amazing? amazes, how it hurts him, so this disaster of ukraine, which became the battlefield of the second world war, so, how terribly it hurts him? i found a quote, dovzhenko writes on november 6, 1943, and listen, just now, right now, in these days, in this, at this historical point, how painful it is to read, and how it hurt dovzhenko himself. he writes: ukraine is destroyed like no other. country in the world , all the cities have been destroyed and looted, we have no schools, no institutes, no museums, no

libraries, our historical archives have perished, painting, sculpture, architecture have perished, all bridges and roads have been destroyed, the war has ruined the national economy, destroyed people, beaten, hanged, driven into slavery, we have almost no scientists, not enough artists, so he writes a movie script, shows... khrushchev, yes khrushchev somehow, i don't know if it is khrushchev, or somehow this film script gets to beria, and from beria it gets to stalin, and stalin terribly.

on january 31, 1944, imagine stalin was summoned. convened a special meeting of the cpsu and gives a speech, there is a transcript of stalin's speech, which says the following: if you judge the war based on dovzhenko's film story, then representatives of all the peoples of the ussr do not participate in the national war, only ukrainians participate in it, so here, too, not the authorities with dovzhenko's truth, his film story is anti-soviet, a vivid manifestation of nationalism, a narrow nationalism. limitations, and of course, it is impossible to shoot this film, absolutely everything will be cut down, and dovzhenko writes this famous phrase of his in his diary, he writes that on january 31, 1944 year i was brought to the kremlin, there i was hacked to pieces and the bloody parts

of my soul were scattered for shame and drowned in all gatherings, i held on for a year and fell my... heart could not withstand the burden of lies and evil, i was born and lived for kindness and love, i was killed by the hatred of the great, just at the moment of their smallness, is this not a moment of truth for dovzhenko, this story with ukraine is a fire, is it not a moment of truth for him, but on the other hand, he later even further something continues to shoot, he then shoots also michurin, that is, it's not the end yet, no, it's not the end yet, and in time, well, actually in time. he also shot a chronicle film, uh, like notes about the war, but then there was a farewell in the year 51, and there was also a farewell america, so absolutely also a propaganda film, yes, it is about the criminal activities of the american special services and diplomats , but actually in 1956, dovzhenko

died, but in that interval there was a poem about the sea, i don't know if it was an epiphany or not. he has such a phrase, which our film experts included in the exhibition, the river screamed howl a wounded beast, this is a story about a film study of how the dnipro changed due to the development of kask, ugh, and actually is an instrument of what for... the government was the construction of this gigantic project, and this is the backward movement that we then dealt with after the explosion by the russians of the kokhovskaya hesz, and now zaporizhzhia has also suffered, then dovzhenko, somewhere in the 20s and 30s, he, he had such a phrase that between truth and

beauty, i choose beauty, and it seems to me that it is his , again, this is my fantasy, but it's very on... to his political manifesto, because he had to either construct the truth, and perhaps this is also one of the reasons why he was with stalin, because stalin valued artists, he understood who was capable of what, but having dovzhenko by his side made it easier for him to control him, and he , because what, what meanness dovzhenko did, publicizing ukraine in flames, it was really such a blow. in the back for stalin, today we are talking in this program about dovzhenko, about his legacy and how to tell the truth, how to interpret dovzhenko, to find a language that would or a narrative, yes, which would convey the whole complex, yes, of what

this person's worldview, mentality of this person consisted of, and so on. now the critical issue is not only the return of dovzhenko's creative heritage, but also the return of dovzhenko to the center, yes to the institution you head, yes, not return, but preservation, in fact. for people who do not know about the history of the dovzhenko center, i would like to remind you that in 2022 there was a decision of the ukrainian authorities to reorganize the dovzhenko center, and... this actually meant the liquidation of the dovzhenko center. the cultural community supported you, the court declared the order of derzhkino on reorganization illegal, but now, as far as we know, it is. appeal yes. what is the current situation with the dovzhenko center? eh, the situation at the center is difficult, because we have not

received state funding for several months. and this greatly affects the efficiency or motivation for work, but people, museum workers or archivists, film archivists - this is a very specific category of people who for some reason... protect what in fact does not belong to them, we protect what belongs the country, and if the country does not need its own film fund, then i have a question, what are we fighting for, but my colleagues who are currently working at the center, they understand very well their responsibility and their importance in working with those films that we keep, it is actually the largest collection, the only one of ukrainian cinema in ukraine. eh, and here the connection with dovzhenko is also direct, i believe, because he had the idea even when he worked at the wolf, he had the idea

that ukrainian films needed a film archive, or a fund, where they would be to be stored, because the films were treated so carelessly, they burned and spoiled easily, and he had the idea of ​​​​creating a film archive where the films would be stored, but in the 30th year, ukrainian... cinema basically all left for russia, maybe something remained in film studios, but at a very high risk, because it was not allowed, and actually in ukraine until 1994 there was no film archive or cinematheque only thanks to the efforts of some very wise people, among whom were mr. yakovyna and ivan dzyuba, and yuriy ilyenko, mykola yakovyna was a deputy minister. and while performing the duties of the minister of culture , there was a period of time, because he was developing the charter of the center itself, then these people realized

that we, well, we have a museum, but we don't have our own, neither a film museum, nor a film fund , that is, our film memory is in another country, from which we are now, as it were , independent, and so began a very long process of collecting film and returning it to ukraine, that is, we collected film for 30 years. and we believe that it is now formal, there is no need to broadcast films now some other institutions, to regulate the activities of the center, to ensure it in terms of sustainability so that we can preserve the life of the films, and in a period when everything is threatened, uh, i think that is the primary function of the state, but since it does not really want to to engage in this, and... switched to industry, then, accordingly, in their eyes, the film archive looks like ballast and something unnecessary, and

there is no one to protect it except ourselves and our society, well, it’s good that here our tasks seem to coincide, so we continue as if work and fight though i would like to focus more on the topics that you raise today, because it is very important for us how we ourselves will relate to our own cultural heritage, how we will understand it, how we will talk about it, because now there is an extraordinary amount scandals around each personality, and it is obvious that we know very little about our own cinema or our own art, and i also consider myself one of those people who are not very well-informed, i am just lucky to work with those who do it, who researches well and... there are still people who remember history, but we, we are very synchronous here with dovzhenko, that is, we, we are part of the same society, where on the one hand we

want russian funds, and on the other hand we're under threat and they're our enemy and we can't figure out who our hero is, who we have to turn in, and that's the job of cultural institutions, anyway, i thank you, i thank you, thank you to your team, and thank you to the community. who support you because you are doing tremendous work, even without funding, you are doing perhaps the main conservation work of cultural heritage, thank you, thank you for this conversation, thank you, because you are also among those who support us, thank you, olena honcharuk, the head of the dovzhanka center, was our guest, these are their own names, we will see you in a week , thank you. tired of heavy and bulky saws, then the tv strong saw is just for you, with it you can easily cut trees and bushes, it is so

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espresso tv channel. an unusual look at the news. good health, ladies and gentlemen. my name is mykola veresen. sharp presentation of facts and competent opinions. and in america they also say, let's have better roads, we will have even better ones. a special look at events in ukraine will be located on the border of kyiv some katsaps and beyond. what kind of world mr. norman dreams of, we can imagine it. all this in an informational marathon with mykola veresny. saturday 17:10, sunday 18. for espresso. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united by football. stronger together.

greetings to all espresso viewers. thank you for being with us and news for your attention. scouts damaged seven russian planes at the viesko airfield. this is reported by the ukrainian pravda publication with reference to a source in the main intelligence directorate. the airfield was attacked by drones on april 5. four fighters were hit. 130, two military transport planes and an amphibious plane, and the airport's diesel substation was also destroyed. the number of victims in kharkiv has increased to five, the office of the prosecutor general reported. the occupiers hit the city center and the residential sector with airplanes. one of the shells hit a private house, and also flew into the central park, where many people were. damaged