election frequency, we can already see at 5 p.m. that the number of those who took part in voting this year is a little less compared to 2018, although previously experts very often emphasized that these local government elections will be the same, they will be active for voters, as well as parliamentary elections. accordingly, the presence of voters will be much higher, but we will wait until the end of the elections to finally talk about the number. in principle, how do you assess the atmosphere of these elections, we can say that both camps, they are somehow reduced mutual escalation or not? i wouldn't say that they mutually reduced, plus here the right-wing radical party confederation also joins in, by the way, on... the eve

of the elections, it was this party that was involved in breaking the election silence, they held an action in which theirs actively took part, that is, not they held an action, and a civil initiative, but precisely the confederation of politicians from the confederation actively joined them, these local elections, just like the previous ones, show a real competition between political forces, where one political force is against another, moreover, it is very interesting that the political force, which had already lost its power, criticizes the existing government for the same steps it once took, eh, and it also resembles the parliamentary elections, that is, it is simply a local scale, but the difference between parliamentary and, of course, local elections also lies in the fact that voters very often vote not so much for a political party as for a specific candidate who is theirs for them,

who is understandable to them, and accordingly, then the political party is already a little margin. what do you think is happening around poland's agricultural policy? can we say that the elections largely determine the attitude of politicians, both the previous government and the current one, to the protests of polish farmers? i... i think it's too much, that is, the politicians paid a lot of attention to the protests, they paid a lot of attention to the gazelles, the protesting farmers, and they were preparing for the elections, trying not to do any radical measures in relation to these protests, but i don't think that the protests in any way will change after these elections, because the protests are not so much...

attached to the elections, as the protests are quite chaotic in nature, they demand, first of all, changes in european legislation, if we talk about what is really happening now with such a political situation in poland, how in general it is influenced by how long the country has been in such a situation. election fever, parliamentary elections, local elections, and now also elections to the european parliament? eh, yes, it's true, the country was very divided, actually after 2010 year we see these divisions in poland, which are not diminishing, on the contrary, it seems to me that they are somehow deepening from election to election, politicians also conduct their campaigns in a very populist manner, and there is a large part of polish society that does not support civil society. the platform of law and

justice, the two biggest political forces in poland, is trying to find some new party, sometimes it finds in old parties, such as left parties, but the ideas that are close to them, and therefore sometimes these parties can improve their the results in the elections, or as we can see on the example of shimon, his party, which actually... thanks, actually, so to speak, in the benches, thanks to this competition between law and justice and the civil platform, found its voter, that is, a large part of polish society is tired of this political revolution, this political struggle, and would like to have the right to choose a party that would not be in such a confrontation, that, in the opinion of the majority of polish society, would not... votes among

voters, then i i think it will be like this in poland for a long time there will be no party, and in general the question is whether it will arise, or whether it will gain favor, because by what? how do you perceive the current situation related to polish-ukrainian relations? recently, you may have heard that yesterday president zelenskyi said in his interview that ukraine managed to... transfer transit flows to other countries, although it is more expensive, but he does not see any other chance to solve the issue of transit, which means that this is, in principle, an issue that kyiv does not have

they perceive through the prism of polish-ukrainian relations that no one expects to be able to reach an agreement with the polish government regarding the transit of ukrainian products. through the territory of poland, well, obviously, because we see that the polish government is active, it is a coalition of native parties, and, for example, the peasants' party, which is part of this coalition, or the left parties that support this coalition, they have a sharper attitude towards relations with ukraine, and with regard to economic relations in general, and the active more... in this coalition is civil platform, after all, it is not always homogeneous either, it does not always have a single view of these events, and accordingly, it looks quite weak, considering that it does not actually have such a significant majority and a solid

majority, and it somehow understands its precarious position, the sympathies of polish society as well, and now, if the record... the main such problem was the topic of history, discussions between historians, which turned into a political trend and became very active in the political world, by the way, in poland, then now we see the issue of the economy, economy, which also in the end, it is largely built on myths about ukrainian grain, the quantity of ukrainian grain or the quality of ukrainian grain in poland, and... these myths absolutely circulate in the polish media actively and are often supported by politicians, experts that ukrainian products have flooded the polish market, and ukrainian products are of very low quality, although the checks do not show the same as the statistics

of the main statistical office regarding imports to poland from ukraine, but nevertheless, actually... these myths somehow it is possible to manipulate the interested parties and also to put pressure on the current government to take steps that are not beneficial for ukraine, i.e. the ban on transit, the ban on all transit through ukrainian agricultural products through poland, and kyiv, obviously after the last meetings in warsaw at this meeting deputy minister of agriculture kholodziejczak behaved quite inappropriately. a well-known polish politician, once an activist of the agrarian movement, and at one time he was also connected with the pis, hiding in his first local elections, precisely from the committee suffrage and justice, he

behaves very harshly with regard to conversations with the ukrainian side, moreover, he behaved quite inappropriately, which you admit is also the ukrainian side, and accordingly, obviously after these negotiations... the ukrainian side decided to look for other ways to solve the transportation problem of its products to europe , bypassing poland, or maybe now it will pay more attention to the conversations in brussels, thinking that brussels will somehow also be able to influence the government in warsaw. and tell me, please principles, if we talk about what is happening to ukrainian refugees from the war. poland, do you feel that they are becoming part of the ukrainian community, or is it, i would say, such a conditional thing? er, you know, it is very difficult to say that they are becoming part of the ukrainian community, because when we talk, for example, about these border blockades, we have not seen any very large activities on

the part of the ukrainians, the ukrainian community, in general in poland, we have not heard so many voices, as we would also like to hear in ukraine, and active... steps that would showed in poland that they were reporting, reporting, of course, completely rational things to polish society and polish politicians, about the fact that the blockade. goes primarily to the polish side, because poland's imports to ukraine are only growing, nevertheless, we have not seen any such active or media-visible actions from the side of ukrainians, and it seems to me that it is impossible to talk about the influence of ukrainians, ukrainians in poland, because first of all, there are several different communities, active remain on... primarily the so -called permanent migrants, i.e. ukrainians who left for poland before the start of a full-scale

war, they created initiatives, founded non-governmental organizations, they are active in this public life of poland, on the other hand, refugees from the war from ukraine who came to poland already in the last two years, i think they are more emphasized and oriented to the arrangement of their building. well, this is an important moment, it seems to me, will this situation change in the future, what should be done in general so that people who left the country after the beginning of intense hostilities, and maybe not are going to leave poland, so what should be done to bring them into such a common, public life with this organization, with this ukrainian community that is already in poland. yes, it is true, i say a difficult question, i think that over time, in the end, active

people, they were already active people from the very beginning, joined various initiatives, which were organized primarily by ukrainians from poland, or migrants, or, for example, representatives of ukrainian minorities , time will pass, and of course there will be such people, i think it will increase, they will try and create your own organizations are no longer governmental, if they are interested in this public life and public activities, this is what some of them could do at one time in ukraine, but let's not forget that a large part, according to various surveys, a large part of ukrainian refugees in poland nevertheless, she sees herself somewhere further in ukraine, that is , she says that she is ready to return to... accordingly, for them poland is a country, for many it is also a country of transit,

they have stayed in poland for the time being, but they are looking at germany, the scandinavian countries are looking to leave further, and accordingly, obviously all this also affects the fact that the ukrainians who left, fleeing the war after the 22nd year on february 24 , are not so active in public life in poland. thank you, thank you ms. olga for this conversation, olga popovych, editor of the annual ukrainian almanac, the publication of the association of ukrainians in poland, was at czsk, and now to slovakia, where the second round of the country's presidential elections took place yesterday, the speaker of the parliament, peter pelligrini, an ally, was expected to win the odious prime minister robert fitzo. we let's talk now with analyst, director of the institute of central european strategy dmytro tuzhanskyi. greetings, mr. dmytro. good evening. well, you know, it was very strange for me before these elections to observe

the situation, which, as you know, was after the first round, and when a huge number of observers did not believe that petr pereglin still had a good chance of winning the presidency, one could say , uniting the voices of all representatives. voices to the cause of the slovak hungarians, well, it happened as it should have happened, i think, well, it is now, you know, we we can say so, but in reality everything looked different before the second round, some forecasts, after the polling stations were closed, said that no, korchok should win, if you look at the turnout, it is abnormal, again, it is more than 60%. this was only the first presidential election, which was held in the national assembly, this is the 1999

year, there was more than 70%. also, to be honest, it is surprising how peter pellegrini has increased the turnout, that is, he has somewhere plus 600 thousand votes, this is a lot, and this is true, to be honest, even if you mathematically count the votes of everyone there candidates from the first round, there from... garabin, this anti-system and pro-russian, hungarians, actually, well, anyone, that is, it's more than that even, so to be honest, it's a surprise. because once again i would like to point out that korchok also won a lot, that is, he plus 200,000 votes in the second round, that's a million 200 votes, well, i don't know, i'll understand two or three candidates who became presidents, after all, in previous years, they didn’t even raise that much, that is, the president was nominated when they raised a million, even zuzana chaputova, who went on the basis of this

of the protesting electorate after the murder of jan kutsik, a journalist. she licked less, that is , to be honest, a very interesting thing happened, and well, i wouldn't say that it was expected, but it's something, it's something strange, and to be honest, i think it's very, very dangerous, because it seems that peregrini , in general, this team of pizzeria pellegrini managed to mobilize such, you know, not just far-right, fascist, maybe anti-zach. homophobe, but in general such an anti-systemic electorate, which, well, i don't know, you know, which believes in fears, yes, that is now, the only thing that can explain such a mobilization is that people were scared and believed that slovakia was stolen by, i don't know, soros and they were going to get involved

in the war, but somehow it's all just too much for two weeks between the two summers. but still, the fact that pelligrini all the time positioned himself as a candidate of the peace party, that he is for peace, and if ivan korchuk wins the elections, then there will be war, slovak voters, savats, who will go to fight in ukraine, 100% yes, but you see, it didn't work in the first round, well that's why, to be honest, there is a lot of work for social media. for political scientists and, to be honest, for politicians, that is, what should happen now, how should this pro-western camp act, well, you see how slovakia is divided, the elections to the european parliament are ahead, which is probably the last chance in the coming decade, this four-year period for

pro-western forces to rehabilitate, if there they will, you know, fail and that's it. anti-western, anti-european, anti-brussels forces will gather, then to be honest, it's not what you know, here here there are more problems for slovakia itself, because i is not, you know, an expert who believes that pellegrini is a great danger for ukraine there, or the fizo pellegrini duo is a great danger for ukraine, or even for brussels, it is too small a country, too weak, but it is a danger for slovakia itself as. and tell me, in principle, the fact that it is possible to scare the voters in slovakia in such a way, with a war that is quite far from the slovak borders, to be honest, as far as it can be said at all, becomes mainstream for central europe, as such? it's the absolute mainstream that few people seem to notice,

is underrated now, and we saw it very, very vividly. in the elections in hungary in the year 22, which coincided exactly with the russian revolution, now we saw them in the elections in slovakia, in the fall, when fitzov won his revenge, now we see in the elections of the president of slovakia, we have four elections in romania ahead of us , and well, we can see it in other contexts, to be honest, but even in poland this narrative is very serious. it can be assumed that this is precisely the continuation of these hostilities in ukraine, that it will be to increase, i would say, the political possibility of this, i don't know, party seeking a compromise with moscow, you can say so, well , you know, if you take the same slovakia and hungary, then the question is where else can it increase, in these countries it will definitely

to polarize the country's society, and it seems to me that, you know, the only chance for... western politicians in the countries is to copy macron in a good sense, that is, to break this narrative through certainty or uncertainty, this strategic uncertainty in terms of position, and by the way we see it now in hungary against the background of the protests led by this peter madir, to be honest, he does not say anything unique, yes, if the active opposition in hungary said it, it does it in principle, it does not... give it a rating, but a new person started saying these things, and you know, he is growing, gathering people, the street is working, eh, that is, it still depends on the country, well, and we will see what will happen there in the czech republic, yes, because the election cycle is there it will be a little later, well, but now, to be honest, everything switches to the elections to the european parliament and to romania, and maybe a new person who

can lead people to protests against orban, which we saw, maybe this is the effect of navalny, not just about politics, but also about corruption, we see how it worries people in such countries, like hungary, like slo... spachchina, like russia, like ukraine, by the way, according to the latest polls, corruption is more of a problem than war for most of our compatriots. this is a good comparison, it is interesting, and i was igor matovych in slovakia, do you remember this one of him, there were the last parliamentary elections, he, not being new a politician, but taking this approach of navalny in principle, what he did, did, filmed journalistic investigations about corruption in slovakia, and won then, well, just... a crazy victory, just lost everything, so let's see what will happen to peter madir, you understand , this is a very real story, no one knew about peter madir until february 8th, that is

, everyone found out about him on february 10th, when the president of hungary resigned, when he made this comeback, he just became, you know, like that cog of the system that started to say, to say things that everyone has known for a long time, suspected, that independent media wrote about, but to speak as a person who is in... that is, no matter how much orbán pretends that he does not care, and he feels safe, and peter madir doesn't pose a danger to him, and they've now included, this kind of campaign against him, that he's an abuser there, and a person who engages in...domestic violence, but so far, you know, it's not working against him, so the momentum is going, very interesting momentum, very much alive, well, let's hope it

has consequences in the electoral figures and in the change of this political landscape, as they say, because hungary, like no one in central europe, fits under the term captured state, where viktor orbán and his team, i do not say, even the party, control everything, and where the merger is. between the ruling party and the state is simply phenomenal, well , again, the question arises, if this is so, why is it so easy to bring so many people to the streets when it comes to the orbán regime, because this is budapest, because 2/3 is a constitutional majority and viktor orban gains full control in the country with less than 50% support, this is the electoral model, yes. that is, this is a hacked democracy, that is, let's see, let's see, now it's budapest, now this is also the peculiarity of petr madir, that he is a man from

fidesz, he is a man from the system, he is a man from this establishment built by viktor orbat, that is, you know, the accumulation of fatigue , protest potential, and of course, and this, by the way, is an interesting trend when big cities, they... support just people with liberal views, the same thing happened in the elections in slovakia, we saw that practically the entire bratislava agglomeration, and bratislava, and the cities near bratislava, and košice, and poprat, and preshav, all these cities voted not for piligrini, but for zavan korčak, he had practically everywhere in bratislava, i think, in general. the advantage of ivan korchyk over peter pellegrin is 73% there, as far as i remember, against 27 there, if i am not mistaken in the numbers, well, something like that, it is the same

in hungary, if you look at the local elections of the 19th year viktor orban , having scored quantitatively, well, one of the best electoral results, but he lost 12 months, that is, the mayors of 12 largest cities, including budapest, they ended up in the hands. position and now there will be a test in june, because simultaneously with the elections to the european parliament in hungary there will be local elections, we will see how it will work, but again, this is an interesting phenomenon and a central european phenomenon, when active participation in the electoral process, in the elections and in the political process they take very specific, you know, such strata of the population, i would say marginal strata of the population, outside the system, that is, and... there are those anti-vaccinators, conspiracy theorists and so on and the like, that is , you know, this is such a danger of democracy being hacked, because on the one hand

, democracy is for... people to take an active civic position, go to the elections and the turnout was high, but it turns around, you understand, such totalitarian, or such, i don’t know, some ochlocratic various trends, and here is petel pelligrini’s jump in the second round, and what viktor orbán is doing in hungary, actually, when he politicizes, well, you know, such topics that seem to never political topics were not, you understand. like children's rights, there's lgbt, the topic, family, religion, yes, he mobilizes in this way exactly that electorate, at the same time forcing a potentially civic-active electorate, yes, the same creative class, hipsters, relatively speaking, to sit at home , or there, i don't know, to smoke, well, so that they don't smoke there, and what do you know about the meeting of the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine and hungary, dmytro koleb and petro siyart in

brussels, what is the meaning of this? stories? the last six months, especially after december 2023, when viktor orbán wanted very much, but could not to block the opening of negotiations with ukraine, well, to block it in any way, viktor orban wanted to delay them, he wanted to use it to make an election campaign before the european parliament elections, that is, not to completely block the opening of negotiations, but to drag it out until july, until august, until june, as long as possible, since then there have been... very serious consultations under the pressure of scholz, maloney, macron, well under such pressure, you understand, this is not forcing viktor orbán to negotiate, but forcing viktor orbán not to promise, but to agree, and eh, you know, these are quite serious, well, they are behind the scenes, now it is probably best that they be like this, negotiations where the entire ukrainian

vertical is involved. from the office of the president, ministry of foreign affairs, vice-prime minister for european integration, zakarpattia ova. that is, to be honest, when ukraine adopted these changes to the legislation on national minorities, when the whole parliament, it was a good precedent, the whole parliament then, er, formed the final draft law and voted, so all the factions, and now this vertical is involved in so that well, i don’t know, tame viktor orban and normalize relations, and from... accordingly , unblock this military aid there, make the veto impossible, approve the negotiating framework and, accordingly, prepare any meeting of leaders, zelenskyi, orban, which viktor orban doesn't want to, will avoid it, but from july 1, hungary will preside over the european union, and to be honest, i didn't take a position within the european union, but on behalf of the european union,

you can't ignore ukraine and ignore zelenskyi. but what will it be, until things, is it the presidency for ukraine, if you think about it? viktor orban wants to do everything to make ukraine less noticeable. he wants to, he focuses on the western balkans. that is, he is now, and he is here tied to the elections to the european parliament, to pressure from paris and berlin, various pressures, to such pressure, but the invitation from mrs. maloney to this group of conservatives and reform. viktor orbán needs to find himself in this structure of the european parliament, he needs to find himself in the new european commission, it is unlikely that he will receive such an important the european commissioner, as viktor orban previously defeated merkel and macron. that is, you know, here is now a good chance for ukraine, well, to convince viktor orban not only not to block our rapprochement with the eu and nato, but, you know, somewhere to normalize these relations, and somewhere

to work, well... pragmatize, for example , no matter how strange it may sound, to bring ukrainian-hungarian relations to the level that we now have in ukrainian-slovak relations is fizo, yes, when he basically says such very offensive things, but the ukrainian military equipment repair center in mykhailotsy, not far from me, it works even under fitso, with his rhetoric, commercial contracts there for zuzans or bozhens potentially, that is, respectively, howitzers or demining. they are being canceled, that 's why rain metal wants to build the fourth plant in hungary for the production of, well, different equipment, i don't see why in ukraine, well, it's also in the format of trolling to offer the germans and hungarians certain commercial contracts for the production of something for ukraine, namely in hungary, it would be a very good signal for moscow, well, to be honest, they are already worried and are already doing everything possible so that ukraine and hungary not only come to an agreement, but normalize these relations, russia will

work. for it to ruin everything again.