and maybe there will be questions for the people who did this in kyiv, no, no questions about, i will say so, about their fears there about the crimean tatars, namely the question of the relevant article of the criminal code there, the promotion of hostile activities, the weakening of ukraine's position in international constitutions , maybe someone will raise it someday, i'm sure, that is , in your opinion, it's not some kind of bureaucratic procedure, it's just a matter of flying . in this, not only a political, but also a criminal, procedural assessment, and the fact that the assessment will be legal, well, of course, there will be at least a trial, it is obvious that if you are given what is rightful, let the court decide, the legal status of majelis crimean tatarsky people are really in a state of limbo now, and this is already emphasized by the representatives of medzhalis, and ryfat chubarov spoke about it recently, by the way, the discussion is intensifying now in ukraine regarding the status and format of the existence of the crimean peninsula.

territory in general in the context of return, and there are a lot of speculations, which ayder and i started talking about in the last program. well, first of all, there is speculation about where the crimean tatars are, why they are not fighting, and this is completely unfair. we have a battalion formed by representatives of the crimean tatar people, which is joined by representatives of other ethnic groups. peoples, national minorities, in addition, representatives of the crimean tatar people are firmly embedded in the defense forces of ukraine, and they perform combat tasks in many directions now in every fifth the battalion has representatives of the crimean people, and on the other hand, again , the crimean tatar autonomy or the crimean region, unfortunately, unfortunately, we see the intensification of this discussion now, i don't know if it's timely, let's go, well, two different questions, to the first question , how can a purely civilian person answer that... well, we see crimean

tatars in the army, i know my crimean tatar comrades in the army, but the question is different, the question is that if crimea is occupied, yes, and the other part of the crimean tatar , let's say this, well, not diasporas, but part of the resettlement traditional in the kherson region was occupied in the first days of the war, maybe it is not the fault of the crimean tatar people, right, well, at least it is not their fault, if the bulk of the crimean tatars were in the controlled territory, it is obvious that their share in the army should be greater, that is just what they say , prosecutes for participation or possible participation in the civil blockade of crimea, they become de facto prisoners of war, i like this word, that is, excuse me with all, as they say, respect for any discussion, there is no discussion here, the question is different, namely why we are discussing something that really has absolutely no... no point in physically discussing it

today, why? it is impossible to change the constitution, look, there are several factors, the first factor is that we live in a democratic country, we can’t exactly bring such things down from above, we have to at least formally, let’s say it directly, go through some procedures of discussion or public opinion, logically, otherwise it’s impossible , maybe you are talking about a referendum, i am talking about any form provided by the legislation of ukraine, i do not say the word referendum, i do not say the word there is some other, i i say that you do not decide according to the democratic procedure on... or even in the session hall of the verkhovna rada, the fact is that the broader issue, ugh, the crimean-captured, today the majlis, again, returning to this issue, has not yet been established in organizational relations, i'm not talking about the legal system, ukraine legally and politically recognized it, but did not introduce it into the organizational system, and how is it possible without introducing this body into the organizational system of power, in general, to talk about something, we have a law on the country of peoples, it is written there by with participation, with participation, with participation, with consultation. that is, we start it first,

then, when we start it, another question arises, it is already political, it should be held again after the deoccupation, king tai, to elect medliz, these are all logical questions, because the crimean tatars, as a component of the ukrainian people, and the whole the ukrainian people are used to living according to democratic procedures, only after these questions can something be legally formalized, and that is why i say, those who today speak about the crimean tatar autonomy, or the region, yes, because they either do not know the situation, or they useful stupid, because all these issues today have the only actual result, which is the distraction of society from urgent issues, which issues, protecting the affairs of the crimean people here and today under the conditions of occupation, real work, sorry, not kavabreaks, but real work on the deoccupation, reintegration of crimea, i can't talk about the military bloc, but for example, regarding the civilian bloc, yes, regarding the civilian bloc of all these issues, just so you understand the situation, we just conducted the crimean tatar resource center and a number of other organizations, our...

the association for the integration of crimea, which i represent, has already held a series of three strategic forums, well, regarding the future of crimea, and has already worked out relevant proposals for the integration strategy, then for the government plans. then for now we got together, we began to think about what to do with the organization of the activities of the international crimean platform, because the summits are taking place, this is very correct, this is the right policy, i personally support it, but let's talk about the real results here and on the ground, what do we need gives, we have specific plans, strategies, tasks for there is a lot of work on the shore, someone gives us funds for this, in what amount, which country, we see security agreements today, there are eight of them, it is very good that... they invest from great britain to finland, i just found the question with the two of us, quote : supporting the development of plans for the reintegration of the occupied territories, if it seems to me that this is great britain and france, well, that's what we need to think about today, that is, in fact, we have, sorry,

today we are not going to the constituent assembly of the united nations in san francisco in 45 -mu, today we are at the beginning of the battle with ogudal channel, if we compare them by categories, we should think not... dear, but when they start telling us, excuse me, you know, it's like standards, let's turn over the ukrainian flag, everything will change, it won't change, because today we're on something formal level will be declared, and even if we can declare it today, because any constitutional act on crimea, it foresees the realities of the situation, we must first clearly understand the reintegration strategy, the reintegration strategy was approved in the 21st year before the great war. then we heard another mr. danilo's statement, as far as i am wrong, is public, well, someone in power or officials is sure that there will be some general strategy about all integrated territories, today mr. danilo is no longer the secretary of the national security council, so

a new question arises, right, so who is there, which there will be a new position in the nsdc, she is responsible for it, because the nsdc apparatus is responsible for the preparation of decisions, and the strategy of deoccupation. integration of crimea is valid in the 21st year, where everyone told us about the diplomatic way, it should be changed at the level of the national security council, that is, i am talking about the fact that this should be done here and now, when we let's do it, the strategy will be signed by president zelenskyi, we will build on it, which is already constitutional, if i 'm not mistaken, in 2021, in the development of the strategy for the de-occupation and reintegration of the peninsula , the kremstotarsk people's image and the krimostar resource center, etc., took part, now you not invited to... i honestly don't want to give an assessment of those events, it's good that this strategy was generally approved, huh, and it at least does not correspond to the realities of the great war, so let's put an end to it, criticizing a document that obviously should be changed today is a thankless task, the only thing i can say is, what can i say,

a plan was approved for the development of this strategy in the 23rd year, ugh, and here the question of lawyers has already arisen in everyone , because there is a plan, but the strategy was not changed, that is, on the basis of... what, if the strategy was not changed, the plan is already new, and the second question, and here it is, many lawyers, in particular, i saw this plan, excuse me from television, sir boris, i really hope that we will have an opportunity to make a whole with you a separate program on all the mentioned topics, i thank you very much for the fact that you were able to emphasize quite acutely and fairly those points that, well , in my opinion, are sometimes discussed a little too cautiously in the information space. thank you, boris babi, we have a representative of the president of ukraine in the autonomous republic of crimea. i thank my colleague gulsum for the fact that we were able to realize another recording of the razom beraber program. we will remind that this is a joint project of the espresso tv channel and the atp tv channel. stay with us and

stay with crimea. there are discounts on eurofast softcaps 10% in pharmacies plantain, pam and oskad. there is a war going on, and not only for territories, it is also a war for minds. we are engaged in propaganda. russia is throwing millions of petrodollars into transforming ukrainians. countering russian information attacks in the chronicles of information war project with olga ley. tuesday-thursday at 17:15, repeat, tuesday-friday at 22:00. the football format

changes the time of airing. from now on, you can immerse yourself in the atmosphere of football every monday at 22:00. professional match analysis. interview, goals, saves, emotions, project as for experienced fans, as well as simply for people who appreciate a non-committed view of football, football format, every monday at 10:00 pm on the espresso tv channel. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together. hello, this is svoboda ranok,

an informational project of radio svoboda. top guests every day. this is the shipping district, kherson. turn on live. we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut. we tell the main thing. on weekdays at 9:00. verdict with serhiy rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format. more analytics, more important topics, more more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world , the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion at the end of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and be included, the verdict with serhiy rudenko , every weekday from 20 to 22 for espresso. the premium sponsor of the national team represents.

united by football together stronger! welcome to the spresso channel. today, in our war and weapons program, we will talk about how ukraine can produce more weapons in partnership with european and american companies. of course, this topic is not new. western media from time to time write that there are successes in the work of the ukrainian defense industry, and this is definitely positive, because such information definitely contributes to the improvement of our position in the world. but there is also the other side of the coin, there are also statements from our partners that it is difficult for them to understand who exactly is in ukraine and which ministry is responsible for cooperation and promotion of certain projects with ours. or the ministry of defense, or the ministry of strategic industry, or the ministry of statistics. about these ukrainian labyrinths, to

things, the american new york times recently wrote, and there, by the way, it was also recognized that , in their opinion, the ukrainian defense market has significant prospects even now in the conditions of war, and in the future, because, as an example, for the purchase of weapons and equipment of this ukraine sent 1.3 billion dollars in 2016, which, by the way, is 20 times more than in 21st year. of course, the increase in our defense spending may interest our defense partners, but, in my opinion, this is still not enough, because we need to look for more active mechanisms for intensifying cooperation with our potential and real business partners in the defense sector. and when we hear there, by the way, the same statements about the creation of joint ventures with partners, we see that in... in practice, these processes do not yet keep up with these statements so quickly, therefore, can ukraine create

competition, maybe even with european and american companies in order to speed up the development of its own defense-industrial complex? we will, we will discuss all these questions in our program war and weapon. my name is serhiy sgurets, i am the director of the information consulting company defense express. and now the first guest joins us, this is... oleksii yizhak, an expert of the national institute of strategic studies, mr. oleksii, i congratulate you, i'm glad to see you on the channel. in return, i congratulate you. you and i, even off the air, have repeatedly talked about the fact that the creation and development of our own defense industry is such an urgent, urgent need to ensure our defense, and we also talked about the fact that without foreign companies we can ensure such a significant breakthrough will be extraordinary. well, the question arises, is the current ukrainian defense market already

such that it is sufficiently tempting for american or european companies that want and can enter our markets, as you see it precisely in this context? well , first of all, i would like to say that labyrinths exist not only here, in general. the sphere of defense procurement, it is also considered by economists to be one of such problematic ones, which, and this problem must be solved globally, not only that, but not that international efforts, but ... each individual country will have to deal with this issue, because the costs are increasing in the world, and never has this market been clear, especially if we talk about the european market, which is completely fragmented, despite the single market of the european union, despite nato , but it still remains fragmented, and how it is all arranged there is very difficult, and if, if everything

were simple there, there would be no need in the world arms trade of this... phenomenon as agents pushing through certain contracts, without them, well, no way, in fact, maybe all this will go away when it ends, at the end of this war, the issues will be resolved, and everything will become clear and easy, although, for sure, there will always be, always, where there are state interests, there will always be certain restrictions , which make the market difficult. as for how attractive we are, how attractive our ukrainian market is, it is attractive, but i agree not only because our partners have purchased 1.4 billion, well, let's not argue, in principle, it is true how much is actually bought, but there is really

a big increase, but regardless, this is a big increase, it is... so huge that for international defense production grants to come to ukraine, it is not enough, these are not the funds, but on the other hand, there are additional mechanisms that force which are very attractive for our partners, the first is the international aid that we receive, it is huge, it, it, well, 350 billion has already been calculated , what ukraine received, of course, not all of it, not all of it is its own military weapons military equipment , but a lot of this money already closer to the front in ukraine, and companies that are closer to the front, where these weapons are actually used, repair, maintenance, all this, they are also

interested, and finally this effect, he, he... registered, he, it is important, the companies that are currently investing in the armaments of ukraine, they, their capitalization is growing rapidly, this is especially visible in europe, where in europe there has been such economic stagnation for two years, there is no growth, but the capitalization of companies investing in ukraine, which supply weapons for aid or by other mechanisms, but those who send physical weapons to... their capitalization increases many times, all this together, of course, and creates such a driver, they are ready to come, there are already substantial, substantial such, we hear these statements and about rain metal, and about the alliance, the alliance that makes caesars and leopards, all these european alliances are ready

to come, there are those that are ready to implement closer to the front. to produce ammunition, here, here, here we have to agree with the considerations that need to be made so that they it was clear how to work in ukraine, this is a big, big problem, but not only our problem, and by the way, you counted primarily european defense companies, german, french, which enter the ukrainian market with a project, and what about american companies, or no... are the americans mumming these processes, are they not lagging behind the europeans, or on the contrary are the europeans now trying to outdo the americans in the arms market, which they believe is promising? i get the impression that american companies, they didn't consider all these incentives that i talked about too attractive, because they are different in scope, and they have other opinions there, there is a vision

in the direction of india there. in the direction of the persian gulf countries, australia, there, yes, maybe there is something else, well, the own, own american budget is what drives american companies, the american budget is maybe half of all military spending in the world, well maybe not half, well there, well, almost maybe half, so that's the main thing for them, and that's why they weren't really invested in it, they weren't really interested in this tool, except, i think, yeah, which nevertheless produces many missiles that are used, for them this is an additional such market incentive, but now when we see that the europeans have begun to use this mechanism... well, it seems that a certain competition has begun, but in the end the americans, they , well, they don’t see it yet, i can’t

say, they do it deliberately, they just gave it to the europeans, well, maybe so, or they just don’t think that the money is so big and large-scale yet, i think this mechanism will work after there will be successful cases in... large grants from large european companies. and when we talk about successful cases, is it the completion of the construction of the rynmetal plant, is it the projects with the french, is it the beginning of the production of new samples at ukrainian enterprises, the purchase of these samples by the ukrainian ministry of defense, are these successful cases? well, we can now see one successful case about what our partners are writing about, as a ukrainian device, relatively speaking, light-motor... this is how technical vision, machine vision with the help of, well , this is a division of artificial intelligence, and this a thing without radar can fly to not

only fly to oil refineries, hit exactly that, recognize exactly that part of this plant, which, which, which creates, well, which allows it to be removed for a long time, well, so long. unfortunately, these cases, they are more for military technology, for those companies that are engaged in technology, there is not a lot of money here, there is a technology case, but there is no business case, in fact, well, yes, in fact, it is a technology test, there really several important, important international companies have proven that their technology works, that it can be used not only in civilian life, but also on the front, this is very important from a psychological point of view. but here are such large weapon cases, i think, after all, it is primarily ammunition and production and missiles for, well, what is constantly spent

on the front, a large order, if certain significant funds pass through the plant, which is located in ukraine, with investments , or in ours, well, probably with investments, these are already big cases, and when, when rheinmetall will show to all that accommodation. factories in the baltic countries, placing a factory in ukraine, this actually not only gives new orders to the government and the west, but also with greater capitalization, well, this will encourage a lot of people, despite the inertia, i think, after all , the main reason why the americans are not here yet with such ideas, it is inertia, they simply do not see this mechanism yet. mr. oleksiy, thank you very much for the time you found for our viewers, for your explanations. we hope for further meetings on our air, i will remind the audience that it was oleksiy yezhak, an expert of the national institute for strategic studies, and now we are joined by pavlo

verhnyatskyi, he is the director and managing partner of the ukrainian company kosa, co-coordinator of the working group on security and aerospace issues, the american-ukrainian business council, mr. pavle, i congratulate you, i am glad to see and hear you on the air channel spresso, good afternoon, you probably heard a piece of conversation with oleksiy yezhak, who said that american companies are in no hurry to enter the ukrainian market, they are looking at the experience of europeans, whether it will work there or not the europeans will not succeed with the ukrainian defense industry, publications in the foreign press, in particular the new york times, which i mentioned at the beginning, where it is also said that american companies lag behind european ones in the ukrainian market, what would you say to... these statements, against the background of these realities, if they are a reality, given the fact that you know in detail what american defense companies think about ukraine and when they

are really going to enter the ukrainian market? well, unfortunately, i have to agree with your previous guest that american companies are really not in a hurry, they are all paying close attention, they are all conducting active communications with... with the state, as well as with the private sector, at the same time , it is impossible to say that they are lagging behind the european ones either, because it is the second, unfortunately , because it is probably impossible to say that european companies have already actively entered and are doing something, there are declarations, there are certain steps, but they are all revolving around rather insignificant projects from the point of view of industry... at the same time, american companies, we see certain dynamics, at least, we see how they looked at what

was happening a year ago, from across the ocean. here, first of all, they directed their efforts to work with the american government, so that their equipment ended up in ukraine, in orders for ukraine, but with american money, for today, of course, and against the background of the delay in the adoption of the aid budget for ukraine in the amount of about 60 billion dollars congress, and in the background... ah, well, already some kind of developed communication, at least they started visiting american companies, they already got permits at least to come to ukraine is already good, they physically arrive here, communicate, bring in quite a good level of delegations, well, delegations, these are very working visits, which in principle are good, not politicized, but concrete, concrete communication, and already

several weeks we can... see how some companies that have not been here for a very long time have already physically sent their colleagues to certain, certain negotiations, moreover, from american companies you can note there, for example, a certain activity, and from the giants you can there, probably boyng should be singled out, they have been here for a long time and they have a representative office here, but realistically. it is significantly different there from the civilian sector, and they also already have certain activities here, i will not say any details, unfortunately, but something is happening, drone manufacturers air environment, for example, they also sell drones here at the expense of american money, but they are already setting up some service here.

for example, technology, that is, it is also not bad, these are the first steps, but it cannot be called such a large industry, a large industry for now, and everything in principle, as i already told you once, by the way, everything rests on the market, that is, when we say that or why companies do not enter or enter our market, we must show this market, if we have there is no budget to buy up large volumes of weapons, then we have only to mutter. potential joint work on foreign markets, well, i think you know very well what this process is, especially at the moment when there is a war in our country. mr. pavle, we can then conclude that it is de facto american to be honest, it makes no sense for companies to come here, because last year we received 40 billion, we received 13, the rest was given to the american company at home, the new package is 60 billion, 2/3 will go to the american

company. we make weapons for the pentagon, they are supplied to ukraine, and the business of american companies in any case grows without these risks of creating joint ventures, trips to ukraine and other things, and then such a dynamic, well, i think that the americans will be completely satisfied, except that time of equipment repair, maintenance equipment, these are two small components that can be solved in a qualitative way due to the training of our military there, and such a model is fully functional. if we approach this purely from an investment, investment, let's say, paradigm, then there are no illusions, what is called, but what in this case inspires us with a certain optimism regarding joint some significant industrial projects with american companies is, surprisingly , politics, and the political component in the arms business, as you well know, and... sometimes

more important, or at least very important, on at the same level, perhaps, as the commercial component, er, therefore, taking into account the geopolitical distribution of forces and er changes taking place in the world, the political component can help us a little in the aspect of joint projects with powerful partners, er er, foreign. including the united states. then the question arises, if suddenly the president changes in the states during the elections, will this, uh, inertia, or this concession, progress towards cooperation with ukraine, even on the scale that exists today, be preserved. we remember the past somewhere a year ago, peni pritzker said that ukraine is now extremely important for american

defense companies, they can plan many joint projects, the statement echoed.