these local elections, just like the previous ones, show a real competition between political forces, where one political force criticizes another, and it is very interesting that the political force, which has already lost its power, criticizes for the same steps that its for some time it was done by the existing government, and it also resembles parliamentary elections, that is, it is simply a local scale, but the difference between parliamentary and usually local... elections also lies in the fact that voters very often vote not so much for a political party, as for a specific candidate, which is their own for them, which is understandable for them, and accordingly, then the political party moves a little to the margins. in your opinion, this is what is happening around poland's agricultural policy, can we say that the elections largely... determine

the attitude of politicians and the previous government and the current one to the protests of polish farmers? i don't think it's too much, that is, the politicians paid a lot of attention to the protests, they paid a lot of attention to the gazelles, the protesting farmers, and they were preparing for the elections, trying not to do any radical steps regarding these protests, on the other hand, i don't think that... the protests will somehow change after these elections, because the protests are not so much attached to the elections, as the protests are rather chaotic in nature, they demand , first of all, changes in european legislation, if we talk about what is really happening now with... such

a political situation in poland, how is it generally affected by the fact that the country has been in such a pre-election fever for how long, parliamentary elections, local elections, now also elections to the european parliament? er, yes, it is true, the country is very divided, actually after 2010 we see these divisions in poland, which are not decreasing, on the contrary, it seems to me that they somehow deepen from election to election, and politicians. populists are also running their campaigns, and a large part of polish society that does not support either the civil platform or rights and justice, the two biggest political forces in poland, is trying to look for some new party, sometimes it finds it in old parties, such as the left party, but ideas which for them, there are close ones, and that is why sometimes these parties can... somewhere improve their

results in the elections, or as we can see, on the example of shimon, the main ones, his party, which actually, thanks, actually, yes, so to speak in the benches, thanks to this competition between law and justice and the civil platform, found its voter, that is , a large part of polish society is tired of this political revalization of this political struggle, and would like to have the right to choose. the party, which would not be in such a confrontation, which would be in the opinion of the majority polish society did not divide poland into two parts. but the question arises, where to take such a party? that's right, the question arises, and given that we see that populists are the best way to get votes among voters, i think that such a party will not exist in poland for a long time, and the question in general is whether it will emerge? whether she, or whether she will gain

favor, uh, because how do you perceive the situation related to polish-ukrainian relations now, but lately, you may have heard that yesterday president zelensky said in his interview that ukraine managed to transport e-e transit flows to other countries, although it is more expensive, but he does not see any other and... another chance to solve the issue of transit, this means that in principle it is already such a question is not perceived in kyiv through the prism of polish-ukrainian relations, that no one hopes that it will be possible to reach an agreement with the polish government regarding the transit of ukrainian products through the territory of poland, well, obviously, because we see that the current polish government is a coalition of relatives parties and

for example, the peasant party, which is part of this coalition, or the left parties that support this coalition, they have a sharper stance. attitude towards relations with ukraine and as regards economic relations in general, and the active majority in this coalition is a civil platform, in the end it is also not always homogeneous, it does not always have the same view on these events, and accordingly it looks quite weak, taking into account the fact that it actually does not have such a significant majority and a solid majority, and it understands: somewhere its shaky position, the sympathy of the polish society, and now, if the record, the main such problem was the topic of history, discussions between historians, which turned into a political

direction and became very active in the political world, by the way, in poland, so now we see the issue of economics, economics, which also in the end, to a large extent... built on myths about ukrainian grain, the quantity of ukrainian grain or the quality of ukrainian grain in poland, and these myths absolutely circulate in the polish media actively and are often supported by politicians, experts that and ukrainian products flooded the polish market, and ukrainian products are of very low quality, although the checks do not show the same as the statistics of the main... statistical office regarding imports to poland from ukraine, eh, but none the less, eh, actually , these myths somehow manage to be manipulated by the interested parties and also to put pressure on the current authorities to take

steps that are not beneficial for ukraine, i.e. the ban on transit, the ban on all transit of ukrainian agricultural products through poland, and kyiv, obviously after the last meeting. in warsaw, at this meeting , the vice-minister of agriculture, a cold-blooded man, a well-known polish politician, once a leader of the agrarian movement, and at one time he was also ultimately connected with the pis, ran for his first local elections precisely from the suffrage committee and justice, he behaved very harshly with regard to... conversations with the ukrainian side, moreover, he behaved quite inappropriately, which the ukrainian side also recognizes, and accordingly, obviously, after these negotiations, the ukrainian side decided to look for other ways to solve the problem, to transport its products to

europe, bypassing poland, or maybe now it will pay more attention to the conversations in brussels, thinking that brussels will be able to somehow also influence the people in warsaw. and tell me, please, in principle, if we talk about what is happening to ukrainian refugees from the war in poland, do you feel that they are becoming part of the ukrainian community, or is this, i would say such a conditional thing, you know, it is very difficult to say that they become part of the ukrainian community, because when we talk, for example, about these border blockades, we have not seen any very large activities on the part of the ukrainians, the ukrainian community. in general, in poland, we did not hear as many voices as we would like to hear in ukraine as well, and active steps that would show in poland that you are reporting, reporting, of course, absolutely rational things to polish society and

polish politicians, about , that the blockade primarily harms the polish side, because poland's imports to ukraine are only increasing, however, some... active or media we did not see any noticeable actions of the rest of ukrainians, and it seems to me that it is impossible to talk about the influence of ukrainians, ukrainians in poland, because first of all there are several different communities, primarily the so-called migrant herds, that is, ukrainians who left for poland , remain active before the start of a full-scale war, they... and created initiatives, founded non-governmental organizations, they are active in this public life of poland, on the other hand, refugees from the war from ukraine, who have come to poland for the past two years, it seems to me that more focused and focused on

arranging their lives. well, this is an important moment, it seems to me, will this situation change in the future, what should be done in general to uh... people who left the country after the start of intense hostilities, and maybe they are not going to leave poland, so that they, what to do, to bring them to such a common. of public life with this organization, with this ukrainian community that already exists in poland? yes, this is really, i say, a difficult question, i think that over time, in the end active people, they are already active from the beginning people joined various initiatives organized primarily by ukrainians from poland, or migrants or, for example, representatives of the ukrainian minority, time will pass, and of course, there will be such people, i think, will increase, they will try and

create their own organizations, not to the government anymore, if they are interested in this public life and public activities, this is what some of them could do at one time in ukraine, but let's not forget that a large part, according to different surveys, a large part of ukrainian refugees in poland same still see... yourself somewhere further in ukraine, that is , she says that they are ready to return to ukraine, respectively, for them poland is a country, for many it is also a country of transit, they have stayed in poland for the time being, but they are looking at germany, they are looking at the scandinavian countries country to leave further, and accordingly, obviously all this also affects the fact that ukrainians who left fleeing from... the war after the 22nd year on february 24 are not so active in

public life in poland. thank you, thank you, ms. olga, for this conversation. olga popovych, editor the ukrainian almanac yearbook, published by the association of ukrainians in poland, was at the czsko, and now to slovakia, where the second round of the country's presidential elections was held yesterday. as expected, parliament speaker peter pelligrini, an ally of the odious prime minister robert fitzo, won. we will talk now with dmytro tuzhansky, an analyst and director of the institute of central european strategy. congratulations, mr. dmytro. good evening. well, you know, it was very strange for me before these elections, to observe the situation, which, as you know, was after the first round, and when, a huge number of observers did not believe that petra'. there are still good opportunities to win the presidency, you can say,

by uniting the votes of representatives of all right-wing and far-right political parties, the votes, by the way, of the slovak hungarians, well, it happened as it should have happened, i think, well, now, you know, we can and to say, but in reality everything looked different before the second round, some forecasts after the closing of the polls said that... no, korchok should win, if you look at the turnout, then it is abnormal, again still, it is more than 60%, this was only the first presidential election, which was nationwide, this is the 1999th year, there was more than 70%. also, to be honest , it is surprising how peter pellegrini has increased the turnout, that is, he has more than 600,000 votes, that's a lot, yes. and this, to be honest, even if you mathematically count the votes of all the candidates from the first round,

there from garabin, this anti-system and pro-russian, hungarians, actually, well, anyone, that is, it is more, automatically it is even more, so what is it honestly , a surprise, because again i would like to to pay attention that korchok also scored a lot, that is, he plus 200 thousand votes in the second round, that's... a million 200 votes, well, i don't know, there i will understand two or three candidates who became presidents, after all, in previous years, even they didn't recruit that much, then the president was nominated when they recruited a million, even zuzana chaputova, who went on the basis of this protest electorate after the murder of her jan kutyk, a journalist, she recruited less, that is, to be honest, a very interesting thing happened, er, and well i wouldn't say. expected, but it's something, it's something strange, and frankly, it seems very, very

dangerous to me, because it seems that peto peregrini, in general, this pizzo pellegrini team, managed to mobilize such, you know, not just extreme right-wing, fascist, possibly anti-western, homophobic, but in general such an anti-systemic electorate that ... well , i don't know, you know, who believes in fears, yes, that is, now or, the only thing that can explain such a mobilization is that people were scared and believed that slovakia... was stolen, i don't know, soros, and will be dragged war, but somehow that's all exactly too much for two weeks of mimes, but still, perhaps the fact that pellegrini positioned himself as the candidate of the peace party all the time, what kind of peace is he, if ivan korchuk wins

the elections, then there will be war, slovak voters , slovak soldiers will go to fight in ukraine. 100% yes, but you see, in the first round it didn't work, well, that's why, frankly, there's a lot of work for sociologists, for political scientists, and frankly, for elites, that is, what should happen now, how should this act pro-western camp, well, you see how slovakia is divided, the elections to the european parliament are ahead, which is probably the last chance in the near future. this four-year decade for the pro-western forces to rehabilitate, if they, you know, fail there too and these anti-western, anti-european, anti-brussels forces gather, then to be honest, well, it's not what you know, there are more problems for slovakia itself, because i am not, you know,

an expert who believes that pellegrini is a great danger for ukraine, or that pellegrini's fizo duo is. great danger for ukraine, or even for brussels, it is too small a country, too weak, but it is a danger for slovakia itself, and tell me, in principle, the fact that it is possible to scare the voters in slovakia so much, with a war that is quite far from slovakia's borders, to be honest , to what extent can it be said to be mainstream for central europe as such? this is absolutely mainstream. which few people seem to notice is currently underappreciated, and we saw it very, very vividly in the hungarian elections in '22, which coincided just with russian torture, now we saw them in the elections in slovakia in the fall, when fitzov actually won his revenge, now we see them in the elections of the president of slovakia, we have

four elections in romania ahead of us, and well, we see. how about something in other, to be honest, contexts, but even in poland this narrative is very serious, it can be assumed that it is precisely the continuation of these hostilities in ukraine that it will increase, i would say the political possibilities of this, i do not know , the party, seeking a compromise with moscow, you can do that to say, well, you know, if you take the same slovakia and hungary, then... the question of how much more it can increase in these countries, it will definitely polarize the country's society, and it seems to me that, you know, the only chance for pro-western politicians in the countries is, well to copy macron in a good sense, yes, that is , to break this narrative through certainty or uncertainty, this strategic uncertainty

in terms of position, and by the way, we see it now in hungary against the background of the protests led by this peter madir, that... honestly, he is doesn't say anything unique, yes, if the active opposition in hungary said it, it basically does it, it doesn't give it a rating, but a new person started saying these things, and you know, it's growing, it's gathering people, the street is working, eh, that is, it still depends on the country, well, we will see what will happen in the czech republic, yes, because the election cycle there will be a little later, well, but now, to be honest, everything switches to the elections to the european parliament and to... and maybe the new person is one who can lead people to protests against orbán, who we saw, maybe this is the effect of navalny, not just about politics, but also about corruption, we see how it worries people in countries like hungary, like slovakia, like

russia, like ukraine, by the way, now according to the latest polls , for most of our compatriots, corruption is more of a problem than. war, it's a good comparison, it's interesting, and i was igor matovych in slovakia, remember, this one of his, there was the last parliamentary election, he, not being a new politician, but taking this approach of navalny in principle, what he did, did, filmed journalistic investigations about corruption in slovakia, and won then, well, just a crazy victory, just lost everything, yes, let's see what will happen with peter madir, you know, it's a very living story, back on february 8. no one knew about peter madir, that is, everyone found out about him on february 10, when the president of hungary resigned, when he made this fireplace out, he became just, you know, like that, a cog in the system, who... started talking, to speak like things that everyone has known for a long time, suspected, about which the independent media wrote, but to speak like the person who personified this system, and now

for two or three months, he already has a rating of more than 10%, he is leading people, and this is a very, very interesting process, that is, if orbán did not pretend that he did not care, and he feels safe and peter madir doesn't pose a... danger to him and they have now included such a campaign against him that he is an abuser and a person who deals with domestic violence, but so far you know, it doesn't work against him, that is there is a momentum going, a very interesting momentum, very alive, well let's hope it is will have consequences in the electoral indicators and in the change of this political landscape, as they say, because hungary, like no one in central... europe, fits the term captured state, where viktor orbán and his team, i do not say even the party, control everything, there is a merger between the ruling

party and the state, simply phenomenal. well, again, the question is, if that's the case, why is it so easy to get so many people out on the streets when it comes to the orbán regime, because it's budapest, because 2/3 and a constitutional majority and... total control in country, viktor orbán wins with less than 50% support, this is the electoral model, yes, that is, it is a hacked democracy, so let's see, let's see, now it's budapest, now it's also the peculiarity of petr madir that he is a man from fidesz, he is a man from the system, he a person from this establishment, which was built by viktor orbat, that is, you know, the accumulation of fatigue, protest. but by the way, this is an interesting trend, when big cities, they support people with liberal

views, the same happened in the elections in slovakia, we saw that almost all the bratislava agglomeration and bratislava and the cities near bratislava, and košice, and poprat, and... prešev, all these cities voted not for piligrini, but for vaan korčak, practically everywhere in bratislava, it seems to me, in general, ivan korčuk had an advantage over petro pelligrini, it's 73% there, as far as i remember, against 27 there, if i'm not mistaken in the numbers, well, something like that, it's the same in hungary, if you look at the local elections of the 19th year, viktor orbán, dialing quantitatively , well one of the best. election results, but he lost 12 seats, that is, the mayors of the 12 largest places, including budapest, they ended up in the hands of the opposition, and now there will be a test in june, because

at the same time as the elections to the european parliament in hungary there will be local elections, we will see how it will work, but again , this is an interesting phenomenon and a central european phenomenon, when active participation in the electoral process, in the elections and in the political process. they take very specific, you know, such strata of the population, i would say marginal strata of the population, outside the system, that is, there are these anti-vaccinators, conspiracists and so on and so on, that is, you know, this is such a danger of democracy being hacked, because on the one hand, democracy is for people to take an active civic position, go to the elections and the turnout was high, but it turns around, you know, like that. .. totalitarian, or such, i don’t know, some kind of ochlocratic various trends, and here is the jump of pelligrini’s loop in the second round, and what

viktor orbán does in hungary, actually, when he politicizes, well, you know, such topics that seem to never be political were not the subject you see, like the rights of the child, there's lgbt, the topic, family, religion, yes, he mobilizes in this way ... just that electorate, at the same time forcing a potentially civic-active electorate, yes, the same creative class, hipsters, relatively speaking, to sit at home, or there, i don't know, to smoke, well, so that they don't smoke there, and what do you know about the meeting of the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine and hungary, dmytro koleb and petro siyart in brussels, what is the meaning of this story? the last six months, especially after december 2023. when viktor orban wanted very much, but he could not block the opening of negotiations with ukraine, well , how to block them, viktor orban wanted to delay them, he wanted to use it to make an election campaign before

the elections of the european parliament, that is, not that... to block the opening of negotiations completely, but to drag july, until august, until june as long as possible. since then , very serious consultations have been going on between kyiv and budapest, under the pressure of scholz, meloni, macron, well, under such pressure, you understand, it is not forcing viktor orban to negotiate, but forcing viktor orban should not be ostracized, but instead negotiated. and, you know, it's pretty serious. and they are so behind-the-scenes, now it is probably best for them to be like that, negotiations involving the entire ukrainian vertical from the office of the president, the ministry of foreign affairs, the vice-prime minister for european integration, zakarpattia ova. that is, to be honest, how did ukraine then approve these changes to the legislation on national minorities, when the entire parliament, it was a good precedent, the entire parliament then, er, formed and voted on the final draft law, so did all factions,

and now. the entire vertical is involved in ensuring that, well, i don’t know, tame viktor orban and normalize relations, and accordingly unblock this military aid there, make the veto impossible, approve the negotiating framework, and accordingly prepare any meeting of the leaders, zelenskyi, orban, which viktor orban does not want, will be avoided, but from july 1, hungary will preside over eurosoia. georgians and, to be honest, no matter what position you take within the european union, but on behalf of the european union, you cannot ignore ukraine and ignore zelenskyi. but what will it be, until things is the presidency for ukraine, if you think about it that way? viktor orban wants to do everything to make ukraine less noticeable. he wants to, that's why he focuses on the western balkans, that is, he is now, and he is tied here to the elections to the european parliament, to pressure from paris.

berlin, various pressures, to such pressure, but the invitation from mrs. maloney to this group of conservatives and reformists, viktor orbán needs to find himself in this structure of the european parliament, he needs to find himself in the new european commission, it is unlikely that he will receive as important a european commissioner as before viktor orban beat merkel and macron. that is, you know, now is a good chance for ukraine to convince viktor orban. not just to not block our rapprochement with the eu and nato, but , you know, to normalize these relations somewhere, yes, to work somewhere, to be pragmatic, for example, no matter how strange it sounds, to bring ukrainian-hungarian relations to the level we have now in ukrainian-slovak relations, yes, when he basically says such very offensive things, but the ukrainian military equipment repair center in mykhailotsy, not far from me, he

even works at with his rhetoric , commercial contracts there for zuzans or bozhens , potentially for howitzers or demining, respectively, fizo is not going to cancel them, that's why rain metal wants to build the fourth plant in hungary for the production of various equipment. i don't see why in ukraine, well, this is also in the format of trolling, not to offer the germans and hungarians certain commercial contracts for the production of something for ukraine, specifically in hungary. it would be a very good signal for moscow, well there. already, to be honest, they are worried and are already doing everything possible so that ukraine and hungary not only come to an agreement, but normalize these relations. russia will work to ensure that it all fails again. do you think that torban visited bosnia and herzegovina just to show that the center of his presidency in the european union will be the balkans, and not the east of europe? that's right, including showing yourself as the only one who can be this mediator between russian and pro-russian

forces. in any part, by the way, of the european union, well, let's see, you know, right now he is trying to show himself as trump's man, and let's talk about the arrival of trump, but you know, it is so desirable and valid, let's see, but hungary is definitely preparing very seriously for its presidency, and ukraine must also prepare for this presidency, it will not be easy . and in principle, what kind of influence does this have on the european integration of ukraine, i would say. emphasized the topic of bosnia and herzegovina, this was also the case at the last summit of the european union, and now orban is visiting sarajevo and the capital of the republika srpska, banja luka, as such cities are important for the further advancement of the european union, although we understand that bosnia and herzegovina will have a very difficult time with european integration. well, look, in december, at the summit, viktor orbán wanted to provoke and provoked austria to

join him in blocking from.