april at 17:45 the collaborators program with olena kononenko on the espresso tv channel. vasyl zima's big broadcast. two hours of airtime, two hours of your time. two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives. two hours to keep up with economic and sports news. two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become like family to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio. events in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people, in the evening at espresso. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, together stronger yes, we, we continue our daytime

marathon, martolyarnyk, vasyl, winter is working with you, here we are returning to the only marathon, which is recognized as critically important and subject to reservation, there are a lot of channels, a lot of workers, i just want to say, here are the data of the kyiv international institute of sociology , only 36% of ukrainians trust the single marathon , 47% do not. well, in any case , it is obvious to someone who is important during the war as an information channel, who is not important, well, we also have a circus booked and let's go next, zelensky made a bet. the main issue is the defense of kharkiv. zelensky stated this in his official telegram. and he says that the main issue is the protection of kharkiv, the protection of the city from russian attacks and the opportunity to strengthen our air defense and rep in the kharkiv region. well, more concretely about the situation in kharkiv oblast, we will talk with serhiy zhukov, deputy of the kharkiv regional council. mr. serhiy, welcome to our airwaves. congratulations. well, let's maybe start with the main bet. so, kharkiv, the main question is which

was discussed at the stake today, and actually it is about strengthening the defense of the city, it is necessary to strengthen kharkiv against russian attacks, because they continue, and continue very intensively, and we understand that the enemy, either informationally or even on a practical level, kharkiv is still trying, well, to keep kharkiv in sight, let's say, not to let kharkiv relax. for a moment, because the shelling continues, and these information leaks that an attack on kharkiv is allegedly being prepared, they are increasingly unbalancing people who remain there, how would you describe the situation in kharkiv in the kharkiv oblast, you have a word, well, the situation is certainly not easy, as you have already correctly pointed out, kharkiv has been suffering from almost daily rocket and bomb attacks from the russian federation for the past three weeks.

these blows are on critical infrastructure, on residential buildings, so of course people suffer, people, well, those who are lucky, after all, they are forced to sit without light, for a large part of the day, in some places without other benefits of civilization, but not less, people hold on and understand, in principle, what is happening regarding the evacuation of people, there, as far as i understand, what is happening separately. mobilization measures are being strengthened in communities, especially there, these are those families who have children or teenagers, are there certain problems with this, are there opportunities to carry out a larger, better evacuation and plus some help in the priority accommodation of people who may not have anywhere to come, yes, these are holiday events, should i emphasize, look, these events continue here permanently, they... well

, they started this year, well, not since the beginning of the year, and in the past year they were, so this is neither an innovation, nor an emergency situation, from the most dangerous communities, this is first of all, this is the kupinsky district, permanent evacuation is taking place both by the forces of state bodies and by the forces of volunteers, primarily children, families from children and so on. there are suitable places for their placement, all this is more or less happening, but the problem, the main problem is that evacuation is not forced in our country, well, actually, er, and many despite the danger, despite the regular shelling of the frontline communities, let's say yes, and in in principle, they can fly into any community, we are just talking about those communities where they come from barrel artillery, from jet artillery, i.e. from... these are those that

are in the zone of damage directly to the enemy's land cities, let's say yes, there really are still people there who don't want to stay. their property, they don't want to leave their homes, and accordingly they don't want to partially leave there and take their children out, there is such a problem, but none the less, none the less, the authorities regularly pacify, well, not that that very regularly, but periodically, the regional military administration reports on the successes, the results of, let's say, the evacuation in the first place, and what about the situation with electricity, as far as they are currently actively used... planned outages, is it possible to shorten this period without electricity, how is the life of the city going now, is the subway working, and indeed some other important infrastructure facilities, are they now able to work without interruption? well, let's say so, critical,

critical enterprises, critical institutions, such as health care facilities, hospitals, inpatients there and. continue to work without interruption, because they are all equipped with generators of different, different power since the 22nd year, and in principle they can work, and as for the business there, there are also generators, there are a lot of them on the streets, you can see them near the shops, near pharmacies, near cafes, near, near everything that is a business, yes, a generator, the private sector will also be generators, the city is basically alive, it is much more difficult for residents of apartment buildings, because they are tied after all to these shutdown schedules, which, despite the efforts of our energy workers, the efforts of all

the people who are involved in the process of life support of the city, still schedules , we will say frankly, they cannot always be observed, because we have bindings. to capacities, to energy consumption and, sorry, also to shelling, because during shelling, in order to avoid fires on objects, you have to turn off the electricity during the threat of shelling, let's say so, and then turn it on again, so people who can , let's say so, to be dissatisfied, there to express some dissatisfaction with what was promised, or to turn off the lights from 5 p.m. to 12 p.m., relatively speaking, there for 7 hours, there was no light for 10 hours, for example, for a day, then these claims should not be made to our energy workers who work at the limit of possibilities, and first of all to our neighbors, yes,

who want to terrorize the city as cynically as possible and make life a bad place. thank you so much for your comments, take care. himself serhiy zhukogo, deputy of the kharkiv regional council about a difficult situation, a difficult, let's say, situation in kharkiv and in the kharkiv region, where the enemy continues to constantly fire rockets and artillery . meanwhile, we continue to inform you about the main news, so there is information that the committee of the verkhovna rada decided on the amount of fines for violation of mobilization and military registration. the head of the committee, serhiy ionushas, ​​faction of the servant of the people, in a comment to ukrainian pravda , reported that according to the committee's proposals for violations. the rules of military accounting in peacetime will be subject to a fine from 3,400 to 5,100 uah repeatedly or during a special period, and now we have a special period from 17,00 to 225 uah. we go further, at the same time for violating the legislation on defense and mobilization. in peacetime, it is planned

to set fines from uah 5,100 to uah 8,500 for citizens and from uah 17,000 to 34,000 for officials and legal entities. fines will be collected during martial law. from uah 17 to 22,500 for citizens, and for officials and legal entities from uah 34,000 to 59,500, in turn the first deputy chairman of the verkhovna rada committee on law enforcement andriy osachuk, commenting on ukrainian pravda, clarified that the corresponding draft law will be considered in the parliament hall in the near future after the draft law on mobilization is adopted, but we must emphasize here that these are proposals of the committee, whether they will pass in the verkhovna rada, we do not know. yes, because it will already depend on how the deputies will be determined to vote or not to vote for this or that provision of the law, but at the moment the committee is proposing exactly such fines, and i actually already announced them, let's go now for a short break, after it we will mykola kapitonenko, associate professor

of the department of international relations and foreign policy of the educational and scientific institute of international relations, will be present, and we will talk with him about the nuclear threat and whether ukraine can claim restoration now. of its nuclear status, why we decided to invite mr. kapitonenko, because you very often ask this question in the comments under the youtube broadcast, you often write about the fact that ukraine should regain its nuclear status. is it even possible in the current conditions, we we will find out literally in a matter of minutes, wait! the new camolet metrolux mattress is made in ukraine with love for ukrainians. matrolyuks is one of the largest manufacturers of orthopedic mattresses and furniture. order the camel orthopedic mattress right now. together with the mattress, you get a 5-year warranty. and hundreds of nights of wonderful sleep. dial the number you see at the bottom of the screen, and our consultants

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represents united by football together stronger the verdict with serhii rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format, even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests. foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion at any time of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and be included, the verdict with serhiy rudenko, every weekday from 20 to 22 for espresso. well, let's continue talking about important topics, including the nuclear

threat. mykola kapitonenko, associate professor of the department of international relations and foreign policy of the educational and scientific institute of international relations, expert of the international center for prospective studies, candidate of political sciences, is already in direct contact with us, mr. mykolo, we welcome you to our airwaves, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, congratulations, well, i had the opportunity to talk to you about this topic earlier, but i would like to ... talk about it all now, because more and more often in ukrainian society people return to the lost opportunities to the mistakes of history that ukraine made, and actually it is about the nuclear status of our state, and very often in our comments people write to us that ukraine should regain its nuclear status, because now the united states is pulling with help, we are now defenseless and we are completely dependent on the help of our partners, i i would like you to explain to our viewers why this is impossible in the current conditions, for two

main reasons: firstly, ukraine got rid of nuclear weapons under joint international pressure, in the realities of the 90s, there is another alternative in fact, this was not the case here there was a joint position of the united states and russia, and other nuclear countries, who wanted to actually slow down at any cost. the proliferation process, therefore it was important for them that ukraine became a nuclear-free state, joined the non-proliferation treaty as a nuclear-free state, the fact that today the circumstances have changed. does not give an opportunity to play back this decision, and regardless of the extent to which we are provided or not provided, do not provide assistance, the basic interest of the nuclear states is that the proliferation of nuclear weapons does not take place, it persists, it has not gone anywhere, and in many ways international security continues to rest on the fact that the number of nuclear

states is limited, and therefore those states that try to build themselves nuclear weapons, they are exposed to pitfalls. pressure, sanctions and the like, that is, the world community here does not encourage such steps. ukraine today is in a much weaker state than it was in the 90s, and if in the 90s it lost its nuclear arsenal, today, being much more vulnerable, there is no chance that it it will be restored, taking into account our dependence on the countries of the west, and the second reason is that even if it is restored , imagine that ukraine is restoring. nuclear potential, so what to do with it, because there are very different estimates of how much a state with a small number of nuclear weapons, and if we can create a nuclear weapon, it will be a small number, what it can do with it in a conflict with a state, which has many nuclear weapons, russia has the largest number of nuclear warheads and is the largest nuclear country in the world, so use or threaten

nuclear weapons, nuclear weapons are a tool of threats, to threaten effectively. it would not have worked out in our country anyway, so i think that these conversations should be classified as fantastic and more realistic plans should be thought of. mr. mykola, then here is a question that you always want to ask, but somehow some such, well, they answer it with general phrases, that we don’t care, and russia will break, one more thing, well, how then in principle to defeat the country with the largest nuclear power in the world potential in ukraine, well, despite the fact that a no one knows this, despite the fact that neither the states. who else will not use nuclear weapons and will not start or join the world war, well, this question will arise sooner or later anyway, and i just wanted to, you can think about it now. in my opinion, the question of what should be considered a victory for ukraine in this war should have been on the agenda for more than two years, and we should think about it very deeply and coordinate the answer to this

question with our western partners, because in fact, the question is open and it... difficult: western theoretical thought, after the emergence of nuclear weapons, the concept of winning wars was largely revised, about this classical approach that was in the time of clausewitz and his successors about what victory looks like, familiar to us, well, for example, the second world war, they occupied the capital, signed a capitulation, a peace treaty, the war ended, there are almost no victories in this way in the modern world, most wars end differently, often without any formal agreements. and what does victory look like in the nuclear era over a nuclear power that does not want to accept this defeat, if the conditions for it arise, no one knows that, there were nuclear powers that lost the war, well, let's say the united states, the vietnam war, but it did not look like the imposition of will the side that won, the signing of some kind of capitulation and so on,

just a great power withdrawing its troops and , so to speak, admitting that it failed to achieve... its goals, whether the victory over russia will look like this or somehow different, what to do if russia does not agree to recognize her defeat, and she is left with this ultimatum, the last argument in the form of nuclear weapons, with which no one actually knows what to do, so this talk about victory, it is really very important, and i say again, there is no certainty here anywhere in the world , what does a victory over a nuclear state actually look like in a modern war, and what can it... look like in the current conditions, when aid is really delayed in our country, when the fact is already stated that we really have problems with mobilization now, how generally in the present in your opinion, what can our victory look like under realistic conditions? i would say that it looks difficult, because you and i are in the conditions of an asymmetric conflict, we are fighting

a much stronger state, and on the one hand, this gives us good chances to survive, to endure. because during the last seven decades or so, weaker states quite often, at least 50% of the time, can deny any aggressive intentions of stronger states, that is, they do not win, but they do not allow strong states to win, precisely because the conflict asymmetric, they are fighting for their survival, while a stronger country can only use part of its potential against them, but on the other hand there is a tendency for... which is not very good for us, not very good news for us in that , that modern armed conflicts, they last a very long time, and if they do not stop within the first year, they last more than 10 years. and in these conditions, it is not a fact that time continues to play on our side, that is, the asymmetry of power potentials, it will be given as signs in the future, and even if we have

to continue to help in the volumes in which we helped in 22-23 years, it is still not a fact that we will ensure victory by this, but if the help is met with growing resistance, we will become the subject of speculation in the middle western countries, greater skepticism, or somewhere there may be... there may be an opportunity on the horizon to agree on something with russia, then we will be in a very vulnerable position, and here our dependence on the decisions of others is very high, so actually i think that we can deal with the risk that the format victory, what is it? victory, under what conditions it should take place, in fact, maybe this decision will not have to be made by us, by the way, about this peace summit, which is to be held in june in switzerland, they are talking, says jen stoltenberg about what needs to be thought, how to strengthen ukraine in possible negotiations, do they think whether china will or will not join the negotiations, by the way, serhiy lavrov flew to china to talk about ukraine,

and that is somehow a lot of words in which the word negotiations is used, president zelenskyi said about not only that turkey can and should be a mediator, that is, what is it about, that is, can we talk today about what is happening behind the wheels, because we understand that something is happening, well, it does not happen that nothing happens, but it does happen, what is it about in general, if so, and what can be prepared at this june peace summit in switzerland on the eve of the washington summit, the nato summit in washington? i am quite skeptical about this format, this peace summit, which we would like it to be such a testament to the world coming together around our understanding of victory, which is embodied in zelensky's peace formula, he... the previous meetings end with nothing, in fact, except for the demonstration of rhetorical support, there is nothing behind this format so far, and the fact is that the fate of this

war will be resolved not in forums, round tables, conferences, recovery strategies and so on, it seems to be resolved on the battlefield, where the balance of power matters, and therefore the position of countries like china is of course key, because... china with for a number of reasons, he can't to allow russia to be defeated, and this affects a lot in the conditions of the fact that china today is perhaps the second, and perhaps not the second, but not the first country in the world in terms of potential, that is, this war, it is dynamic, it creates for big countries have different chances, risks, opportunities, they try to manage them, someone manages escalation, limits, someone consolidates their alliances, someone buys cheaper. oil from russia, someone is checking the forces, watching how new types of war are developing, and the great powers, they are adapting to this war, therefore, of course, they make some decisions, there are

certainly some agreements, and the interests of major powers are behind these events, there are already attempts by a number of states to declare the desired mediation, because mediation can bring some additional bonuses, although the problem is that as to me, the conflict is not at all ready for mediation, for mediation... and conflicts where the parties are at an impasse understand this, and they, well, conflicts are ripe for the efforts of mediators, this cannot be said about this war today, therefore even such states as china, which is trying, well, declaring that they want to be mediators, they are mediators, they will not be able to fulfill the functions of a mediator yet, although they will prepare for this in the future, when there will be a chance for this, so that they already have everything , or at least something is ready for this, mr. mykola, i would also like to ask you, how do you think the world in general is treating ukraine now, because we have our historical chance, when the baltic countries did it, i would say , so about the profukals, so

to say in a very informal vocabulary, but with on the other hand, we understand that now we, we demand support from the world, we demand a reference to the budapest memorandum, on the other hand, for many countries of the world, ukraine is a sub-democracy, because we are not an authoritarian state, but we are not yet a democracy. .. adults, we are still, you know, studying at school, we are trying to move in this direction, but we have not yet fully become this democracy, if we are talking about some kind of sober world view of ukraine, then how do you think the world sees it now us, how does he perceive us? i think that perceives in different ways, but there are some features that most countries can agree on, that ukraine is a problematic country, it is a source of all kinds of dangers for europe, which is located in a very un... free region, which is an institutionally weak country , which is, as it is correct, we are not a democracy, if you look at the democracy rating, then we have been there for 12 or 14 years, it seems that we are in

the group of... transitional hybrid regimes, that is , in us, if we divide the world into black and white, on autocracy and democracy, then another question is where we end up, but the world is not like that is divided, in fact, it is divided by geopolitical interests, and here the question arises, we, the problem is that we are a problem that needs to be solved, the solution of which has some price, but now two years of war have shown that not everyone is ready to pay this... price, that is, how to ensure the security of a large country that has no allies, that is in the center of europe, and at the same time is institutionally weak, for this you have to pay for its security, or for the ukrainians themselves, with a bomb , if they don't have enough resources, then someone else, and who should take on this one the burden of ukrainian security for years to come, when our format is not defined, how we will be, whether we will have allies, whether they will allow us to join nato, whether they will accept us in the eu and so on,

most likely we will continue before... even after the war, if it ends in some foreseeable future, we will be further in this gray area, and our security will depend on so many factors, and we may not have enough money to guarantee it ourselves, that is, this the whole set of questions creates around us a very problematic image of ukraine, and i think that we are perceived mainly through this prism, first of all, we were not accepted into nato and will not be accepted, because we are... a problem, we are a risk, we are what is required investments, requires such correct management, and requires the possibility that somewhere in the future we should have in mind a collision with russia, which no one wants, well, accordingly, we differ from, not only from estonia, latvia or lithuania, but also from a whole range of other countries of central eastern europe, which in the 90s or at the beginning of the 21st century they were able to. to build

their security models differently, but this is actually not just the result of the fact that they somehow made a more unambiguous choice, but it is simply the result of many circumstances that did not depend on them, but simply became more favorable for them, which ukraine was deprived thank you very much, mr. mykola, for the professional and high-quality answers. mykola kapitonenko, associate professor of the department of international relations, foreign policy of the educational and scientific institute of international relations, expert of the international center for prospective of research, candidate of political sciences. in fact, you know, such difficult answers , difficult questions that must be asked anyway, because you can talk as much as you want about desired things, but there is always reality, and here is the most direct in this story, everything that we say now must provide us with security, now in us, but we created these problems ourselves, well, we can tell that this is, as they say, the soviet past, some other things can be told, we in many ways created these problems ourselves, now, of course, many people give their lives so that these problems were

have been resolved, and here diplomacy and... information and the front are all important in order to remain a state from this situation, i will say so, and to preserve its potential as much as possible. yes, i agree with you, i agree with what our guest said, because actually, being here in ukraine, we very often look at the problem of war through the prism of our own emotional, actual experiences, but unfortunately, or fortunately, i don't know how interpret it correctly, the world looks at it with completely different eyes. and unfortunately, we brought the situation to the fact that now we as an independent state, as a political entity, cannot decide how to solve this issue, that is, how this war should end, how this war will end, how it should end, it will be, it will be a combination of different, let's say , aspects of how the world will help us, and actually we also have to play an active role in this, we cannot just be passive observers and

just wait for someone to do or not do something for us. many thanks to everyone who was with us today, marta oliarnyk and vasyl winter worked for you today these coming hours, our colleagues will continue to work for you, so stay with espresso. see you tomorrow at the same time. in ukraine, 5 p.m., news time on the espresso tv channel, in the studio of iryna koval. greetings to all viewers, and now to the main events. the russians hit bilopyl in the sumy oblast with guided aerial bombs. as a result of the shelling, there are wounded. this was reported in the regional military administration. also, the occupiers struck the civilian infrastructure in sumy from aviation.