good evening, we are from ukraine, glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours , we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, our victory, today in the program. ships are on fire and newsstands are exploding, the kremlin is trying to discredit the successful strikes of ukrainian drones, do russian games against zas pose a nuclear threat? scenario of the global summit. lavrov went to beijing while switzerland prepares to announce the date and place of the forum of peace will china take part in it? revenge by summons. employees of tsc are used in the interests of the authorities. how mobilization becomes an important factor in ukrainian politics. about this and about.

over the next hour, we will talk with our guests, diplomat, former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine pavlo klimkin, military expert ivan stopak, and political commentator ihor reiterovych. in the second part of our program, which will start in an hour, we will have people's deputies of ukraine, iryna gerashchenko, solomiya bobrovska and mykhailo tsymbalyuk however, before we start our big conversation, let's watch a video of how ukrainian scouts attacked an aircraft factory with drones this night... in borys glebsk, russia. the main production facilities of the enterprise were previously affected, as it was, let's see.

glory to the defense forces of ukraine and the main intelligence directorate of the ministry of defense. of ukraine. friends, during this broadcast, we are conducting a survey, asking you today whether you consider the channels of the single telethon to be strategic for the economy and state security. yes, no, please vote on youtube, or yes or no, please write your comments below this video. this question is connected with the fact that the employees or employees of the channels of the united telethon are reserved from mobilization, that is why we ask whether they are strategic for the economy.

and security of the state, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think that the channels of the united telethon are strategic for the economy and security of the state 0.800-211-381, no 0800 2011 382, ​​all calls these numbers are free, call us, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, we have our first guest on the phone, this is pavlo klimkin, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-19, co-founder of the center of national stability and development, mr. pavle, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today, congratulations, mr. sergey, i am always glad to be with you and your audience. mr. pavle, let's start with the global peace summit, which is planned in switzerland. bloomberg already writes about what, referring to an official who are aware of the matter that this summit may take place. june 15, 16, 17, although right

now no one can accurately name the number of world leaders, they are talking about a hundred of these leaders, and the question now is whether china will take part in this summit or not, lavrov is flying to xijinping, scholz flies to sydzenpynya, and we will talk about this a little later, but should ukrainians hope for this global... peace summit, what might its results be? well, of course, when we collect the west and not the west, this is a unique format, in my opinion, the holding of the summit already has its value, of course, and it is very important for us that this dialogue, event or event, takes place in relation to us. since the only other format

is the g20, it's limited, we certainly won't get a very hard line. because you saw that the countries of the non- western world, sometimes called the global south, how they reacted, for example, to the election of putin in general, and the election of the occupied territories in particular, they actually tried to sweat, someone someone mentioned it somewhere, someone didn't even mention it, but the very fact that again... such an event and a non -event can be gathered at one venue in switzerland, that's actually, as far as i'm concerned, whether it will be possible to get this format in the future, we have to see , because a number of non-western countries, they emphasize that

the russian regime needs to be involved there, and without it it is really difficult to talk further, and even some of them say that at some point ... it does not make sense, but nevertheless, such, such start, eventually after meetings at the level of advisers there issues of national security and foreign policy, to raise it to a political level, in itself, it makes sense to me, shall we agree to some kind of superpower declaration? according to the results of the summit, well, of course i would like to, but if there was one, or rather it was not a moderate one, but this format can then be used to put pressure on

russia, it’s already cool, you mentioned, in the near future there will be crazy foreign policy activity , this scholz who will go... in the coming days to china and then xi will go to europe, in particular to france. this will be a critical story. i think that after his inauguration, putin, if i am not mistaken, will definitely and very quickly go to beijing on may 7, then rdoan will be there in washington on may 9, so in the next plus or minus 3-4 weeks for... ... we are expecting a real surge of activity, and it is very important that this activity be, well, if you like, embedded in technical language in the preparation for this summit. bloomberg writes that ukraine's allies consider

the presence of chinese representatives important for the success of this meeting, you have already mentioned that scholz is flying there. about the fact that xi jinping is flying, although he is flying to france for the anniversary with an anniversary greeting to macron, if i am not mistaken, there have been 60 years of relations between china and france, but everyone is talking about the fact that china has influence on russia at the same time , which lavrov himself says that, in principle, russia is satisfied. formula, or the chinese formula for peace with regard to ukraine, it is optimal, chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman maoning stated that china supports peace negotiations between russia and ukraine on equal terms, let's listen to a small fragment. the minister

of foreign affairs noted that china's fundamental position on the ukrainian issue is four obligations. proposed by president xi jinping, who hopes for a quick ceasefire. china supports the convening of an international peace conference recognized by both russia and ukraine, where all parties will be able to participate on equal and fair terms to discuss all peace plans. that is, beijing wants, on equal terms, for russia to be in switzerland at this global summit after all, and about this the president of switzerland said at one time that only zelensky started... negotiations with the swiss regarding the holding of this summit, she spoke about the fact that it is necessary for the russians to be at this summit after all, is it possible to assume that china will be at this summit without this equality, as they say that there will be no equality of conditions when there is ukraine and russia, it is possible, maybe they will make

some reservations there, maybe they will be present there for... one notch less, that is , there are nuances there, but i do not exclude that china will go there, the chinese position, it very simple, and there is no we... the new plan, it consists in the fact that you stop the car and sit down and talk, and if you sit down, we will, maybe if we can help you in this, but this logic does not make any the difference between russia, which is an aggressor according to all principles of international law, china does not call on russia actually to... leave the territory of another state, namely ukraine, and the chinese

logic is quite simple: sit down, stop the wagon, agree on something, and we will you will be able to help, you will succeed, you won't you can, but if you don't agree on what we can help you with, the chinese are also willing to see what they can do in critical... sectoral areas such as nuclear safety, i mean nuclear reactor safety of course, although as you remember, the chinese said that the first use of nuclear weapons could not be under any conditions, and it was very clearly and very consistently said, i don't think that the chinese have any critical limit of influence on the... yes, of course they they help them a lot, economically fundamentally depend on

vehicles, reversats, to microcircuits, everything that is possible there, it all comes from china or through china. whether china will be able to show putin what to do, i have a lot of doubt. well, plus there is a certain relationship between xi and putin in some way. on a personal level, they have met a lot, and they both see the world through the prism of strategic competition, or rivalry in the case of china, competition in the case of russia with the west, that is, if we speak in beijing, the first question they have is how it will affect our relations with the united states strategically, so it is not said that china has any special sympathy. to today's russia, but they will continue

to use them, and they believe that this is normal geopolitical logic, so they will continue to insist on their approach, and i do not see how in the near future, at least, unless the situation or conditions change , for china to change its approach, by the way, miller, a spokesman for the state... department of the united states of america confirmed that secretary of state anthony blinken in in conversations with allies, he expressed concern about the nature of cooperation between china and russia, which contributes to the ability of the russian military-industrial complex to further supply the russian army. let's listen to matthew miller. we have seen in recent months that china is helping russia rebuild its industrial base. in essence, they have begun to replace trade with european partners that ceased after the invasion and sanctions of ukraine and help supply components

that increase russia's ability to attack ukraine. we know that xijin pin met with biden at the forum just before, well, almost before the new year, it seems in november, and obviously there they talked about russia and ukraine, and it is clear that the chinese have their own interests, there are no eternal enemies. china has eternal interests, it has always been like that, and yet, can the united states of america encourage xi jinping to be more, let's say, more demanding of putin, because we see that china influences russia, when the russians start saying, we will now get nuclear weapons, it seems to me that the chinese factor is or is not on his... the most important one, it seems to me, even more important than the american one, maybe i am wrong, but

the chinese are still restraining putin with these calls of his, which we will now strike with a tactical weapons, we will get strategic nuclear weapons, or am i wrong, that the united states of america still lacks a little, you are not mistaken, after the november meeting in san francisco, which you are talking about. but just a few days ago there was a long, well, how long according to international standards by such standards, biden's conversation is quite long, almost two hours long. well, we know that they talked about ukraine in the way the official reports sound, there it is enough that they so carefully, i would say, even blurredly walked about what they said, but it is not profitable for china to raise the stakes with the united states now, but that is not less, china,

as i have already said more than once, is unprofitable. for russia to both win and lose, it is beneficial for them, for russia to get its weakness, but to be preserved, to be preserved in the sense that china can use it, and how do you they said, china is balancing its interests here, the fact that the americans can influence the chinese, yes, but this influence is quite limited, they cannot say xia, let's not supply. larger microcircuits used in the russian avpk, well, that is , of course they can impose sanctions on, well , but then they will have to impose sanctions on the entire chinese economy, and then the question arises, how will china trade with the world, and it is 700 plus billions with

the states and 900 plus with europe, that is , such key ones are clamped here. said the fundamental interests of the west, and the west is also balancing, and as it is, trying to maintain a very, very difficult balance, trump is also trolling biden and saying: well, i will add drive and toughen relations with china, so it is really for the americans not an easy moment, well , again, the influence of the americans is 100-well, 100%. it is not such that you can point a finger at something and forbid the chinese to do it, although recently the americans have begun to hit chinese companies that circumvent sanctions, but these are still completely isolated cases there is no systematicity here, although at the same time the americans should be given credit, in

the last 3-4 months they turned the nuts, the nuts in the middle east, what they did not do all this time, they crashed several schemes that operated on the sale of left-wing russian oil, and not only oil, in particular through dubai, they squeezed the turks there, they made them sleepy, they squeezed the indians a little bit, but with the chinese it is of course more difficult, and we know very well that no matter how much russia evades sanctions, but... according to our friends , the absolute dominant number of microcircuits, which now it is used by russia, including military equipment, it is chinese-made, well, the entire russian military machine is owned by the chinese, i am not saying that everything is chinese, but nevertheless, without the support of the chinese, it would not work. mr. pavle, against

this backdrop, the british foreign secretary, david cameron, is flying to the united states. of america and plans to meet there with trump, secretary of state blinkin, and will also address lawmakers in congress with a request to approve an aid package for ukraine. the white house has already accused the congress of inaction on the issue of aid to ukraine. this statement was made by the spokeswoman of the administration of the president of the united states of america, karin jeanpierre. let's hear what she said. so, the people of ukraine are fighting for their freedom. we have to get this national security addendum, what's going to happen, we have to do our part, we have an obligation to do that part , and what we've seen over the last few weeks, several months, is that ukraine is losing ground on the battlefield, and it's because of congressional inaction, karin jahn said pierre. this week should be, if not decisive, at least symbolic for our

aid, which has aid to ukraine from. americans, 61 billion dollars are at stake, do you think that cameron, not only cameron, but also other world leaders have enough arguments to convince the american congress that ukraine needs help, because it concerns the whole world, and not only ukrainians. i think david has already met, or i'm wrong, i saw somewhere on twitter, if not, i think today. it is said whether it will succeed he has to convince someone, i am somewhat skeptical about this, he is not bad at persuading, he succeeds, well, although... as you know, he initiated a referendum on brexit, then lost, so sometimes it would be better not to convince, i speaking with respect to him, i

know him well, without any, without any sarcasm or any unfriendly trolling, will he be able to convince anyone in congress? well , maybe a few critical congressmen, so i would very much hope for that, i also have a feeling from communicating with my friends there. and at friends, that if not by the end of this week, then by the end of next, well, plus or minus , we will have some minimal clarity there, they are repackaging this law, someone is saying: let's divide it again into ukrainian aid, israeli aid, there what to do with taiwan, there are still nuances there, in addition, part of the republican congressmen, they want... to attach some credit element, some credit component and component there by transportation, in order to show this to their voters, that is, to create such a hybrid, help

aid, but partly a loan, uh, there are discussions about the economic part of the aid, well, there is more or less in terms of the military, as far as i am concerned, it is progressing positively, and the republicans definitely want to hitch something there with a locomotive without... the same no way, and now they want to blame the cancellation of restrictions on the export of liquefied gas, the issue is not easy for the democrats, i think that biden does not particularly like this whole issue, as for me, i wouldn’t say he was forced, but somehow somehow put it on him this is a question, but for the left one the progressive... part of the democrats - this is such an important issue from an environmental point of view as well, so how will they play there, democrats, republicans, plus there

are various weirdos still trying, if mike johnson, the speaker of the congress goes ahead with these proposals, to drop him like that, although what i'm hearing is that if there is an agreement between the democrats, the republicans, then the democrats are ready to , let's say, support mike johnson, let's use a better word to protect, so i'm like is to say so moderately optimistic, but this does not mean that something will not change tomorrow, i have been following the congress for the last three or four months, and i have the feeling that something is happening there every day, i don't know if they take us there this example or from someone else, but politics in congress is getting more interesting and more unpredictable, you

mentioned david cameron, he already wrote on twitter, i found this tweet, or rather on a social network, that he writes, he met with antony blinken, he wrote the united kingdom and the united states united in support of ukraine in the fight against putin's aggression, we stand up. for freedom and democracy when they are threatened, and blinkin and i work together to maintain critical international support for our friends in ukraine, their support is at the heart of what we both stand for, if i translated correctly at least, normally, well , what is written in the official sources, you know that what is written is always not exactly what is discussed, but the presence of devi... in the states, it is a cool story, he is known as such a balanced conservative, a balanced tory, he has the ability to speak to both democrats and republicans,

so if he succeeds in something, we will only applaud. thank you, mr. pavle, this was pavlo klimkin, diplomat, politician, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-19. friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our platforms. on youtube and facebook. during this program, we conduct a survey and ask you whether you consider the channels of the single telethon strategic for the economy and security state why do we ask this question, why do we articulate? because the employees of the channels that are in the united telethon were booked from mobilization. therefore, we ask, in your opinion, are these channels of the united telethon really strategic for the economy and security of the state? yes, no, on youtube? everything is quite simple, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote yes 0.800 211 381 no 0800 211

380. all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. further we are in touch with ivan stupak, military expert, former employee of the security service of ukraine. mr. ivan, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, studios, thank you for the invitation. well, first of all, let's talk about strikes on the territory of russia, since ukrainian drones attacked an aircraft factory or center in the voronezh region this night, it is reported. about the fact that there is also a training aviation center there, and there were production facilities, this is in the city of borys oghlebsk, the main intelligence department said that it their special operation, or rather some anonymous people there confirmed, hinted that it was gur who was working, how do such strikes affect russia and do they have an effect, if they have a weak effect, then what do you think is needed, mr. ivan, for them

to have an effect... more , oh, what a great question, it seems that i work in the president's office, i am responsible for all these blows, or i don't know, in the general staff, look, well, okay, we are thinking here now, and immediately with your respectable viewers shared their thoughts, they have their own opinions, that is, i think that you will have a discussion in the chat, of course it is important to choose goals, isn't it, goals in the russian federation are simple, as the wagons say. and everywhere and political goals, and economic goals, and military goals, many, many things, but resources, our limitations, if we were talking about i don't know, 1000 drones per month that we have, then it would be possible sit and pretend, let's give here 100, here 200 and here and there 400 and here and there the rest that will remain, it is much more difficult for us with drones, the russians have anti-aircraft defense is electronic warfare, there is... there are

mobile patrols like ours that shoot down, drones that fly over, so so far i see that the really best targets that have been chosen are oil refineries, oil processing complexes, bulk terminals , which are being destroyed, because it is fuel, fuel is money, besides the fact that fuel is the blood of war, money is also the blood of war, it is income to the russian budget, it is payment to russian soldiers, it is... bypassing, well, salaries, this is bypassing sanctions, procurement of various electronics, for the money coming in, so the destruction is ok+, we are already seeing the first such cautious results, so they are still implicit, but approximately 14% of the russian oil and natural complex has become disabled, that is, it has been damaged or disabled for a long period of time, and the russians, what, they are already

starting to reserve their own fuel resource at... russian refineries, plus in kazakhstan they reserved 100,000, or rather asked for 100,000 tons of petroleum products, in case the special operation does not go according to plan, well, just in case, here the question is whether kazakhstan can to provide such, such amount of fuel is questionable, not clear, so i think the next targets should be, apart from, rather apart from refineries, containers with fuel that is already produced and stored in the form. reserve, reserve on there kubyshka on black day. such objects, i think, they will also become objects for our hitting, except, of course, purely military objects, purely military airfields, where carcasses, drying plants, birds and so on are located. our western partners are quite stingy, to put it mildly, quite stingy, but they give weapons, long-range weapons, they believe that the ukrainians can strike on the territory of the russian state, and then

the russians can... fly to them, they still, in your opinion, hope to find some common ground with putin and the russians, because if they they say that russia must be defeated, or rather, they say that ukraine must not be defeated, from which i conclude that russia must obviously be defeated, or do they want this war , relatively speaking, ended in a draw, and they were friends with the russians again. and therefore, these weapons do not reach us, although it is absolutely obvious that such weapons are now necessary in order to defeat the russians. well, now i heard part of the conversation with the honorable pavel klinkin, and where he says that now the american parliament has turned into, well , almost like ours, it is also not foreseen when they will vote, hell knows if they will vote at all, well, the only thing , which seems