of ukrainian networks also on trovsocial, well, but also other networks, i talked to a researcher of the atlantic council, and actually, as he explained to me, how it works, something published on some small website by russians or by one account is picked up by a channel in telegram, already more influential in russian telegram, this is then translated into english, tweeted by a user with links to unknown sources. in telegram, and it is in english , it circulates perfectly on english-language twitter, and it is also going there, it is also talking about duplicate operation, when websites are created, duplicates of well-known mass media, which are very difficult to distinguish from real websites, the only thing is that everything looks the same there, but maybe a single article distinguishes it, it is very negative for ukraine, and to see that it is not a real, not a real website, you can only look carefully at its address, well, these sites actually... they are created and disappear quite

quickly, why this is also done, roman explained. no user will go directly to this site because they don't know it exists, that's why in order to encourage users to go to this site, you need to advertise it in some way or post it somewhere so that users click on it. advertising or other platforms are used for this. yes, other platforms block these sites when they are found very quickly. and therefore. well the attackers, yes, what they are doing right, they change these things very very often, very quickly, after they are banned on a particular platform, after they run ads, but during this time, while they it was launched until tens of thousands of people still have the opportunity to see this advertisement and click on this link and see what is there. tanya, we heard from an expert that tens of thousands of users still manage to see this fake. information before it is blocked

by platforms. so how effective is this disinformation campaign, is there any evidence of the real impact of these narratives, and is there any work being done to counter these narratives? well, we actually see that the aid package is still not passed, we see that it affects the the american congress and the congressmen themselves are talking about it, and in particular , mike zorner said this at the weekend, and this is an influential congressman, a republican, the chairman of the intelligence committee, he said that his colleagues will continue to spread russian narratives, which he really believes. for example, he gave as an example, he had to explain that this is russia's war, russia's war with ukraine is not through nato. also , another well-known republican, an influential republican, congressman mccaul, chairman of the foreign policy committee, he provided a lot of examples, information, various speculations that he had to, had to refute, talking to his colleagues, and another congressman, who just stopped being a congressman, kevin buck directly accused ... this is the kind of publication that

looks respectable, but it spreads russian narrative, there was an article that zelensky had bought two yachts with american money, they say margaret tellergreen spread it, it was very widely circulated, and another senator, tom tilley, said that, well, it just made it impossible at that time to debate about aid to ukraine, because everyone was talking about these yachts, and i actually talked to a person. which communicates almost every day with congressmen, and for urging them to provide assistance to ukraine, this is a representative of the organization together, and this is how, what he tells me about how much he hears this narrative of communication with congressmen. in our work with the congress, we come across different narratives, and very often, it is not clear what the first source is, but definitely, these narratives are centered around ukrainian. corruption, or around

narratives related to the us border, or stories about escalation. and very often, i think, there are similarities between the narratives and the themes and the messages that come out in the meetings and in the speeches on the capitalist hill, which very often reflect or overlap or in some ways resemble the messages that we all know are being spread by russian trolls or various information sources of russian disinformation, in fact. it is difficult to determine where the message is coming from. thanks to tanya, tetyana voroshko was in direct contact with us from capitol hill, she investigated the topic of the campaign of russian political technologists and internet trolls to discredit ukraine in order to stop the approval of the us congress of aid to kyiv. at the end of march, the universal russian people's council, which was meeting in moscow under the auspices of the russian orthodox church and patriarch kirill, called russia's war against ukraine a holy war. the council declared. that the whole of ukraine should

enter the zone of exclusive influence of russia, he called the measure satanic. more about the russian orthodox church's support for the war and russia against ukraine, personal role in this patriarch kirill and the presence of the russian orthodox church. in the usa, my colleague nataliya churikova spoke with the researcher of orthodoxy, the author of the book "holy rus holy war", why the russian church supports putin against ukraine, catherine kalaidis. patriarch kirill of the russian orthodox church was among the first to congratulate russian president vladimir putin on his re-election. he also supports everything that president putin is doing, including what he is doing in ukraine. i want to... ask you, as a researcher studying orthodoxy, is it something typical and traditional for the orthodox church to be in such a close relationship with the state, which in church language is called a symphony, or does this case still go beyond tradition? yes, this is

a kind of traditional cooperation, the greek word symphony between the state and the church is used for it. in orthodoxy, this is a fundamental relationship in which the medieval... and early modern orthodox church understood itself since the time of the eastern roman empire, that is, the byzantine empire, but what we see in russia is actually unique in the sense that in russia we have a kind of nostalgic replay of this symphony that really speaks to the desire of putin and kirill to use the russian orthodox church as an instrument of russian soft power, an instrument of russian influence around the world, and that, i think, very different from tradition, that is... goes far beyond tradition. priests, especially protestant ones, emphasize that the priest's primary duty is to tell the truth and save lives. but we see a completely opposite attitude towards of these questions in the russian orthodox church,

where only about 300 priests, most of whom live abroad, spoke something against this war of aggression that russia is waging in ukraine. why do you think? that other priests, other orthodox communities do not protest. i think it's a combination of things. in russia itself, i think, it is about fear. speaking out against putin and his regime in russia is incredibly brave. of course we see people who have done this and they are brave, but bravery is rare in this world. and as for the wider one orthodox world, it is practically blocked in a state of polarization. that kirill did very effectively. positioned the russian orthodox church in different corners of the earth as the guardian of traditions, the guardian of traditional values, so that it does not mean. i think they deliberately keep the interpretation of the term very vague so that people can fill it with whatever they want, so it becomes difficult

to oppose cyril, to oppose putin, no matter how egregious what they are doing, because you are locked into such polar binary a conflict in which you cannot fail. your side, and if you say anything against them, you're accused of having all these other views that you may not have. russia leads the world lists of countries with the highest abortion rate, the highest divorce rate, the highest incarceration rate, well maybe not after they started using convicts in the war against ukraine, but in all these things. it is far from idealistic conservative values. what makes russia so attractive to people in in the united states, we see many converts to the russian version of christianity, russian orthodox christianity. i think

that in absolute numbers it is not so much. i would separate people with very conservative views from people with really dangerous far-right views who are attracted to the orthodox religion. something that is outside most of the history of christianity and christendom. they imagine orthodoxy as something unchanging, that's how they talk about it. this is an unchanging church, which is supposedly not affected by any historical moments, which they see as negative. this is an era of revival, enlightenment and reformation, but this is of course objectively untrue. then here we are not talking about another interpretation of history, but simply about objectively untrue things. orthodox christians, orthodox peoples, they were all integral parts of these great movements, that is, all this is a lie, and they imagine that modernity in orthodox christianity can simply be erased, and this

appeals to them. you can find an extended version of natalia churikova's interview with catherine kalaidis in social networks and the page of the ukrainian voice of america service. and this is the end of the story about the family of musicians from luganda, who 10 years ago with a whole symphony orchestra... evacuated from their hometown to severodonetsk, already with the full-scale invasion of russia in february 2022, collected mainly musical instruments and went to lviv. about the new life of igor and innysh povalovy, their cooperation with the lviv organ hall and classical music against the background of air-raid sirens, in the story of omelyan oshchudlyak and yurii dankevich. igor shapovalov, like other musicians, opens the massive doors of the house. of organ music in lviv by fingerprint. for two years now, this is the entrance to a new home for his symphony orchestra. i

think home is where you were born after all. well, but somehow, we are destined to be without a home for 10 years this summer. after the full-scale russian invasion in february 2022, igor and his family took three days to get to lviv from severodonetsk. bypasses are dangerous sections of the route, the explosions were very close already near severidonetsk, and we were literally half an hour, even less, to get together, well, i didn’t understand if it was just some kind of trip for several days, or if it wasn’t quite, there weren’t many things, because there were two trombones, that’s half a trunk, a paper clip, an oboe, that’s all, when we found out that we went to kharkiv and kyiv, we were very afraid that we would be cut off, and then we wouldn't be able to get anywhere at all. at this time in lviv,

igor's family and other luhansk musicians were already waiting in the organ hall. his managers, taras and ivan, were then thinking about lodging and food for several dozen colleagues, and in the meantime they managed to order the writing of new music, a repertoire for lugansk citizens who will just arrive. when they traveled for a long time, it was difficult, we contacted them, and literally the next day or the day after, we decided... to turn to the composer oleksandr shchetynskyi to write a piece for those musicians who are right now, then there was an incomplete lineup, there was a very small ensemble, it was trombones, horns, a violin, we have an organ, there are musicians who are evacuating from there right now, because there is shelling, write for such an ensemble, and he wrote, that's how lacrimosa appeared, an avant-garde work for a small warehouse. where even air raid sirens sound. this is a recording of a concert

from april 17, 2022. against the backdrop of rocket attacks in lviv, some supermarkets are closed, but people came to listen to classical music. what worked was that it was at that time, it was done at that time, it was written at that time and it was performed at that time, that is, the living nerve was full of sleep. since then , the lviv organ hall and the luhansk philharmonic orchestra have performed together on the lviv stage about eight dozen projects. they have a common artistic strategy, post production and promotion. there are currently 22 immigrant musicians in lviv. the rest of the orchestra was selected from among the locals. it remains a separate institution under the luhansk philharmonic brand. it is important to understand that the luhansk philharmonic is financed from the budget of the luhansk region, and it is extremely important to... extend this, even budget funding, so that it does not stop, because when our territories

are liberated, they will be able to restore their activity, culture is such a soft power, we don't have our house, we don't have our rented house, which we rented for eight years, we don't have much, but the luhansk philharmonic, the only thing we have left of luhansk, and what ... our such that we hope to return will bring us home. igor zlilia's musical family got married while studying at the conservatory, and have been working together ever since. now their daughter and son-in-law play with them. 10 years ago, in august 2014, they left their native luhansk, when it became clear that the ukrainian army will not be able to recapture the city from russian-controlled militants. emotional hunger, that is, there is no internet, no light, no communication, we had one point where

you could make a call, but there was a lot of crowding of people, people constantly came that somehow it caught a little bit, they went there twice at people, explosive devices were fired, a lot of people died there, there was no electricity, no water, and two or three shellings every day, since june , the railway stopped. i saw them, that is, it was at a distance, well, 500 m, maybe this is what happened to us then, that it is june, july, there is part of august, in principle, it has already influenced the decision now in february in the 22nd year. in 2015 , the orchestra of the luhansk philharmonic was revived 100 km from luhansk in severodonetsk, everyone

got there as best they could. ihor cannot forget the story of the deceased... they rented a car to transport them, the shelling began, they had to crawl through the cemetery between the graves in order to cross over to the territory controlled by ukraine, and they crawled along the cemetery with their tools. in spite of the fact that the demarcation line is only 20-30 km from there, since the spring of 2015 symphony concerts have been held even in the open air on the central square of siverodonetsk, even under the baton of foreign conductors. back then, in the 14th year, there were no such ballistic missiles, this is, at most, a game where the most terrible thing was, but what about mines, well, machine guns are sometimes like that,

but here ballistic is a completely different situation. completely different destructive power and completely different feelings. this is what the house in severodonetsk looks like today, where igor and lilia lived for eight years after being evacuated from luhansk. we had hope that there might be, well, somehow our house is there, something there somehow did not miss. and then the video appeared, just in the yard of our house was on the playground. there were swings and burial crosses between the swings, it was almost all over the city, it was revolutionary, there was a typewriter and a can of kombucha on the stage, in the full house hall, a one-act satire opera mocking totalitarianism. the second

revival of the luhansk philharmonic in lviv is creative, avant-garde and classical. at the same time, a soft power waiting for the right opportunity. it's just faith in ukraine, faith in what it has to be well, and the desire to live and create. i can proudly say that i am from luhansk. malyana shchudlyak, yurii dankevich, for the voice of america, from lviv. download the voice of america mobile application. the application allows you to bypass blocking automatically thanks to the built-in vpn service. read news, watch informative programs and videos, as well as listen to podcasts of the ukrainian service of the voice of america. with that, we will say goodbye, you watched the program of the ukrainian voice of america chas time. join ours too

daily briefings from monday to friday at 6 p.m. kyiv time on youtube and facebook. thank you for trusting the ukrainian voice of america service, i'm natalia leonova, all the best! events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives, of course, the news feed reports about them, but it is not enough to know what is happening, it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskyi. and invited experts soberly evaluate events, analyze them, modeling our future. every saturday at 13:10 with a repeat at 22:00. zahid studio with anton borkovsky on espresso. verdict with serhiy rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format. even more analytics, even more important topics, even

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must finish it and we must win. every thursday at 21:15 in the project velikiy lviv talks about the most important things, on the espresso tv channel. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory today program ships are burning and water heaters are exploding. the kremlin is trying to discredit the successful strikes of ukrainian drones. do russian games on zas pose a nuclear threat? scenario of the global summit. lavrov went to beijing. as switzerland prepares to announce the date and location of the peace forum, will china participate? revenge by subpoena: tck employees are used in the interests of the authorities, as

mobilization becomes an important factor in ukrainian politics. we will talk about this and other things for the next hour with our guests, a diplomat, a former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine pavlo klimkin, military expert ivan stopak and political expert. columnist ihor reiterovych. in the second part of our program, which will start in an hour, we will have people's deputies of ukraine, iryna gerashchenko, solomiya bobrovska and mykhailo tsimbalyuk. however, before starting our big conversation, let's watch a video of how ukrainian scouts attacked an aircraft factory with drones this night in borys glebsk, russia. the main production facilities of the enterprise, such as this, are pre-affected was let's see,

you saw how it was done for the first time. glory to the defense forces of ukraine and the main intelligence directorate of the ministry of defense of ukraine. friends, during this broadcast we are conducting a survey, asking you today whether you consider the channels of the united telethon to be strategic for the economy. of state security, yes, no, please vote on youtube, or yes or no, please write your comments under this video, this question is related to the fact that the employees or

employees of the channels of the united telethon reserved from mobilization, so we ask if they are strategic for the economy and security of the state, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think that the channels of the united telethon are strategic. for the economy and security of the state 0800 211381 no 0800 211382 and calls to these numbers are free, call at the end of the program , we will sum up the results of this vote and we have our first guest pavlo klimkin diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-19, co-founder of the center for national stability and development. mr. pavle, i congratulate you. thank you for being with us today. greetings, mr. sergey, always happy to be with you and your audience. mr. pavle, let's start with the global peace summit, which is planned in switzerland. bloomberg already writes

that, referring to an official familiar with the matter, that this summit may take place on june 15, 16-17, although right now no one can accurately name the number of world leaders, they are talking about something like... a hundred of these leaders, and the question now is whether china will take part in this summit or not, lavrov is flying to xi'an, scholz is flying to xi'an, and we 'll talk about that a little later, but should ukrainians hope for this global summit peace, what can be its results, well, of course, when we gather the west and the non-west. this is a unique format, in my opinion, the holding of the summit already has its cost, of course, and it is very important for us that this...

dialogue, event, not an event, takes place in relation to for us, because the only other format is the g20, it's limited, we're certainly not going to get a very hard line, because you've seen the non- western countries, sometimes called the global south, how they've reacted to, for example, putin's election in general and in the elections for the occupied territories, in particular, in fact they tried to sweat, someone mentioned somewhere, someone did not even remember, but the very fact that once again the west and the non-west can be gathered on the same site in switzerland is actually how important to me

will it be possible to get it in the future? we have to watch this format, because a number of non-western countries, they emphasize that the russian regime needs to be involved there, and without it it is really difficult to talk further, and even some of them say that at some point it does not make sense, but nevertheless, such such a start, after all, after the meeting. at the level of national security and foreign policy advisers there, to raise it to a political level, in itself, it makes sense to me, should we agree to some superpower declaration for, according to the results of the summit, of course, i would like to , but if it was, it will be, or rather,

it was not. kind of moderate, but this format can then be used to put pressure on russia, it’s already cool, you mentioned, in the near future there will be crazy foreign political activity, this includes scholz, who will go to china in the next few days, and then xii will go to europe, in particular to france, it will be a critical story, i think that putin... after his inauguration, if i am not mistaken, it will be on may 7, he will definitely and very quickly go to beijing, then jordan will be in washington on may 9, so in the next plus or minus 3-4 weeks we are expecting a real surge of activity, and it is very important that this activity be, well, if you like, built into

the preparation for this summit. bloomberg writes that the allies of ukraine consider the presence of chinese representatives important for the success of this meeting, you have already mentioned that scholz is flying there, and that sydney pinh is flying, although he is flying to france for the anniversary with the anniversary greetings to macron , if not... there have been 60 years of relations between china and france, but everyone is talking about the fact that china has influence on russia, despite the fact that lavrov himself says that in principle russia is satisfied with this formula, or the chinese formula for peace with regard to ukraine, she is optimal, chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman

maoning said. that china supports peace negotiations between russia and ukraine on equal terms, let's listen to a small fragment. the minister of foreign affairs noted that china's fundamental position on the ukrainian issue is the four obligations proposed by president xijin pinen, which he hopes for a quick ceasefire. china supports the convening of an international peace conference, recognized by both russia and ukraine, where all... parties will be able to participate on equal and fair terms to discuss all peace plans. that is, beijing wants russia to be in switzerland at this global summit on equal terms, and the president of switzerland spoke about this at the time, that only zelensky started negotiations with the swiss regarding the holding of this summit, she spoke about the need for the russians were still at this summit. or

can we assume that china will be at this summit? without this equality, as they say.