him, they are disconnected, and the advertisement has ended, we continue the discussion here, but we give the floor to volodymyr rutkovsky, who is in lviv for rehabilitation, and he really raised such a topic, you know, mr. volodymyr, i really want to continue this the question, after all , what you were saying, from what... in this context of what you see here about these conversations about mobilization, you really want to use a lot of vocabulary, vocabulary, look, the biggest trouble is really, and it starts and ends in people that i have mind you, i was returning from kyiv a week ago with my friend, who has an even higher amputation than mine, this is a very famous... a fighter who

has already entered history, chuchupak vasyl, and somehow the circumstances turned out to be such that we were traveling, we moved this deputy, i won't say specifically, but the very fact in the conversation, when there were questions, and what we need, what are the problems, in the conversation we realized that as of today, we have a lot. a clearer understanding of what is happening in the country than a deputy of the verkhovna rada, and when a deputy of the verkhovna rada says, i simply state what was said, i do not have any powers, i cannot do anything, i am powerless, that is the end of it, that is where i interrupt, and i say others. things that

were talked about, i forgot our brother, whose name is markiyan lupachak, how can you at this time allow yourself to say in this country that you were martyred, knowing that there are now guys there, in whom the word of martyrdom is, well, he is not there exists, because there is a second word to define this story, but in principle, well , it is not interesting to anyone, because there is... a position that you have to hold it, and it doesn’t matter how many cabals or fabs there are, you have to hold it with a machine gun, roughly speaking, every now and then when a story like this happens, then you want to fight a lot, because you understand what will happen today in kyiv, in the verkhovna rada , in kadmin, all the more passengers are sitting, passengers who have nothing to do with the national idea of ​​ukraine, they will stay there for today, because that's how the circumstances turned out, huh. or they made

the circumstances so that being there today and doing what they are doing, and i feel very bad there, that there is not even one people's deputy among us, to whom we can wait now on skype or phone to ask a question, and where were you before, where were you before, how many years has the war been going on, nothing is ready, it's just a collision, yes about i don't have a leg, i'm... a disabled person of the second group, if i have a disabled person of the second group in my family, i can officially go to write papers and go do civil affairs, but if i'm a disabled person of the second group, i'll already write off the armed forces i can't, they will find me something to do here, and there are many such collisions, and the question arises, what whether you work in the verkhovna rada or in the cabinet, we all understand what they do there, and here we are talking about 20% consciously. the problem

is that every day we are not growing, we are diminishing, because when i look, we are fading away, we are trying as a nation, every single day, right now the best of us are dying, the best of us are dying right this very second when i 'm saying right now, someone is dying, someone 's arm was torn off, someone's leg was torn off, but the problem is that there is no connection between all those citizens to whom he is writing... a ukrainian, this is the biggest problem as of today day, and when the people's deput can afford to speak to two people who have no legs, who lost them in the war, we lost a bunch of brothers, very cool people, who should return and we should continue to build this country and develop the what we did before the war, and these are all conscious now, as a rule , they are at the front, there are very few conscious people here, they are either actually engaged. who

does not have a body part and this is how the circumstances turned out, and in order to arrive at some logic about mobilization, i would like the deputies of the verkhovna rada to mobilize first council, there are 450 people, and through their own example they showed everyone else how it is necessary and how it is possible to mobilize in one room, being every day, and how in this one room, for the first time in the history of the independence of our country, 450 people mobilized, and through this own example they showed , how are huge nations mobilizing, well, we cannot mobilize when they are now... making points for themselves, where two assistants of the people's deputy have armor there and so on, i will not list all these points now, i am not very familiar with them figured it out there, because there was no time, but we in this country can come from point a

to point b, which we have set for ourselves, and this is victory and a bright future, in my opinion, thanks only to one thing, it is full understanding... where are we going, and when to the people who write these laws, there is no understanding where we are going, and i have, god forbid that i be wrong again, the feeling that they are dragging it out in order to make more money, because we know very well how many people, every day of god, leave country, in different ways, by different mechanisms, but honestly, there is such an inner feeling that during all this time nobody does anything just to make more money. and this is tearing me apart from the inside, as a conscious ukrainian, this is what we started with, we include oleksandr fedienko, he is a people's deputy of ukraine, a servant of the people, a member of the committee on national security, defense and intelligence, without video communication only by phone , mr. oleksandr, i don't know if you heard the entire speech

of volodymyr rutkovskyi, a military officer, but i am briefly narrating his questions to you, and why so many. was needed time to pass this law on mobilization, do the deputies really have these powers now to change our state and the understanding of what it should be? look, the initiator of the draft law was the general staff of the ministry of defense of ukraine due to the laying initiative by the cabinet of ministers, as soon as it got to the committee, the committee will consider it quickly enough. the first reading was passed, well, then , of course, the deputies, all the deputies of all political factions submitted more than 4,300 amendments there, yes , all amendments must be submitted according to the procedure were worked on by the committee, they worked on it for about a month and a half, it turned out

after that that there were about there, well relatively speaking, the edits were divided into blocks, there were 100, 200, 250 edits, they were the same, that is, linguistically speaking, there, 100 deputies submitted the same 250 amendments, right? we began to consult with the general staff and the ministry of defense of ukraine, because they are the ones who directly deal with the operational-strategic and strategic issues of waging war, repelling aggression, and managing the military, not deputies, i want it to emphasize, i believe that the deputies should not accept questions about how to manage the troops, what to do with the troops, and so on, the deputies should, conditionally speaking, raise the cartridges in the form of the adoption of certain laws taking into account the interests of the armed forces of ukraine and... on of the ministry of defense of ukraine, so all these amendments were later combined into committee amendments, that is, conventionally speaking, what we are talking about, one committee amendment absorbed the same 200-300 amendments from people's deputies of ukraine. hello, yes we are we hear you, yes, yes, i apologize, absorbed, and

today, as you know, the bill has already been voted on. please tell me the situation surrounding the amendment regarding... er demobilization, we heard here, by the way, from the military that they actually, well, maybe even, well, it is important, but they do not actively think and talk about it in public, like some ukrainian politicians, let's leave them in quotation marks, now there is information that these amendments will be considered in the next few months, what is your position and the position of your political force, which has now all votes are for voting? any law in the verkhovna rada? i can say my own position, the position of the political forces, i am not not authorized to speak, look, i want to emphasize once again that if the commander-in-chief came to the committee, we held a meeting, he

gave the relevant facts and reasons why right now, unfortunately, it is impossible to carry out the appropriate demobilization, and further through the cabinet they turned to the committee to remove this norm, then i... that we should trust the commander-in-chief, who directly deals with the front, so we discussed this issue at the committee, so we then offered mr. sutskyi and... a cabin, that okay, okay, we will agree with your proposal, because they, because they cited, i cannot announce the relevant information on the air , which has limited access, but let's then rest for a short period of time, that is, prepare a draft law on demobilization, but let's still be frank and tell the truth to each other, the truth to our military, it is impossible to simply take, withdraw the military from lbz the line of combat collision and there, relatively speaking, let them go somewhere, yes? it is simply impossible, for this it is necessary to either carry out some kind of rotation taking into account the military

weight of the army, practically more than 1 million, and taking into account the troops that are there and to bring them to the lbz, then carry out coordination there and etc., yes, and in parallel continue the mobilization in order to update, and it will take a month, two or three to recruit some numbers there, relatively speaking , 50-100,000, and conduct appropriate training. will carry out appropriate coordination, will carry out appropriate combat coordination, then there will be combat exits and so on, but i think there will be three or four months, no less, i think that the first and the first questions will be related directly to the demobilization, most likely of a small number of people, directly, as we were promised those people who have been on the lbz for a long enough time, more than 18 months, will begin to procrastinate in action, and by that time we will adopt the corresponding bill, as you... personally treat the clause about certain restrictions for

mobilization of assistants of people's deputies, about this armor for assistants of people's deputies, because it raises certain questions in society and the military, how important is it? look, you, my assistant rushes to the front, i don't hold him, i let him go, but to be honest, they don't take him due to his health, i didn't reserve anyone, i can't say about the other deputies. to know, this is their question, but i want to emphasize that there are quite a variety of deputies, there are deputies who work quite fruitfully, and if an assistant is needed for their work, who should be, well, that's their question, look, i want to ask again, i don't have assistants banned, you heard, oleksandr fedienko, thank you for joining in, in fact, a lot of representatives of the government received offers from us to talk today, in particular, we were looking for a speaker. cancellation of defense, they did not find it, it is clear that they invited the minister, but apparently the minister

has one, we did not find it, we gave them a request, no one agreed to go on the air and talk about it, many also invited deputies from the defense committee, well, mr. fedienko without video, but turned on, to mr. mytsyk , the question, well, from the point of view of ideology, the necessity of mobilization in the context of the survival of our state, it seems to me that we have already discussed this aspect quite widely and... voluminously, but from the point of view of legislation for ordinary citizens, yes, who are currently unmobilized, maybe it was you who tried in every possible way to avoid this urgent need that will change, there are a lot of conversations around now, well, in particular , the confiscation of cars, but i understand your point. we

understand that the law is not yet complete published, but what we know as of this minute, i want to say, i really liked marken lupagachuk's words about the exceptional politicization of this bill, i never thought that such a mega-important law would take so long. how difficult it is, and at the same time the entire government will behave like an elephant in a porcelain bench, it will destroy everything 10 times, create chaos, you remember the first 20% who drag the country, and how 80 and more, i want to say a little, whether there are does this principle work because of the political division of ukraine, even an active person, but you will say certain words in the wrong audience and you will receive, you will refrain from saying it. it is also very important in our country, the verkhovna rada has shown that they are like in a sandbox, i will break your belt, you

did not accept my amendment, and i will not vote for this important draft law at all, i also saw this, it is very strange, because that there should not be a division on such a basis. now about the most important key points: the goal set by the state: to increase the mobilization contingent, did they achieve this result? i think that the mountain gave birth mouse, the result... there is not much from this, we will receive a large filling of the mobilization contingent at the expense of the so -called eternal students, that is, it is clearly regulated in the law that the possibility of obtaining. higher education only in the order of growth for the following, as defined in article 10 of the laws on education, and postponement in transitional provisions until the end of this year, academic may, respectively, the opportunity to study for the third, fourth, some other education and below, including as seen if the president will sign this law, she will be excluded, again the word graduate students disappeared from the law, it

is difficult for me to explain, in the first law in december. there were no graduate students, everyone raised a cry, in the law that was introduced in january, at the end of december , the word graduate students appeared, then there was a thesis that there would be no graduate students from private educational institutions, now again the word graduate students is not in the final version of the law, maybe it is me i say, hidden in the content of article 10 of the law on education, where there is another, as it is called, educational and educational level of continuing education, maybe it is hidden there, and the second question is this... for clarification, well, for example, men who have wives, disabled people, the third group, not all, but only those who have no or limbs will not be entitled to deferments , or one body or another, in general, dramatically, it did not expand the conscription mobilization contingent, now, on the contrary , the number of people who receive

the right to be released from military service has increased, and only due to the unification of legislation, so that... you understand, in our country, how this patchwork blanket was sewn together by laws, inserted into each law changes, saw that a lot of people avoid mobilization as a result of taking care of their close relatives, once made a change , only when there are no other people who should take care of it, and so, in the section that talks about exemption from military service , such a change was not made, that is, the person was mobilized, and a week later he had the right to resign and... in a circle, these were just anecdotal things, guardians, adoptive parents, this norm was in the law, but it applied to whom, that is, a person who has an adopted child, she should not be mobilized, if she is mobilized of her own free will, then she has the right to resign, but a contract officer who served at least one day before the start of a large-scale operation did not have the right, who had an adopted child, could not resign, and

we had a lot of such , various, excuse me, legislative haste, which in this law... in the end is reduced to a single denominator, and around this, and this did not increase the mobilization effort, there was a huge fuss around this, it was not just a law, it was four wagons, 15 carts and there was someone running from behind, he shouldn't have been of such a size, i heard such an interesting phrase, in short, i am breaking into your conversation, that in our country, for example, there is a conditional restriction on the departure of citizens outside the country, outside the country conscription age, this... well , it is an important point, it is a decision of the cabinet of ministers, yes, and here we danced around the law, for the sake of such small points, the whole state got into a fight, and probably our foreign partners as well, well, they looked at us a little like that, with surprisingly, the government behaved strangely, it started from the first minute to criticize the same law that she should have introduced herself, remember, we already

said once in this studio that the shooters were transferred to the military, you see, they are asking half a million men to mobilize and... this was one such way of such specific harassment of the former by the head, well, it was very interesting, the state was kind of on the sidelines, the state began to play for power with the most different categories, and to pity the disabled, how can it be viewed there, for example, do not touch the disabled, how to view the certificates msek, which were adopted during the war, and such things were heard, such statements, this will not happen every time, but the most important thing is that the authorities started a rumor, that is, the first law, remember? the prohibition of consular actions if you do not have a military registration document, which caused the collapse of the websites of our foreign consular and diplomatic institutions abroad, people immediately queued up for this, then everyone refused this greeting in this draft law, very easily it is written: you can't get only a foreign one a passport without a military registration

document, everything else can be clarified upon arrival at the consular office, but where could it be launched? such information, such an impression, that for the first time people assumed what could be happening, then you remember, such a word of mulka that there will be restrictions on the use of bank accounts, they say that 20 billion hryvnias were withdrawn from deposit accounts by ukrainians avoiding it, now third, i have not seen it in the text of the law, well, no one has seen it yet, i have not seen it in print, and i have not seen a single serious document, for example, the conclusion of some verkhovna rada, but this phrase appears in telegram channels that... that the state will have the right not only to seize legal entities, individuals, entrepreneurs, but also citizens for defense needs, this is not a confiscation, not a third party. the centers are rubbing their hands, because they will be the influx of tomorrow,

the 30-day law will be in force, during this time a lot of people will rush to reshape these vehicles, so you can't, well, these things can't be done so chaotically, because they cause very large costs to citizens, the funds are wasted by the state. receives cons regarding the thesis that the guest, mr. volodymyr, said, regarding, or you said, regarding the review of the conclusions of the msec, you know, this topic is in every draft law, it is written differently, and it is each time in the transitional provisions of the law , the way she went now to the discussion of the parliamentary committee, it was written like this, what the ministry of defense wanted, persons who received disabilities after the start of the war, ugh. pass the military medical commission, and the stalwart said, we will see how fit they are for service, and after that we will recognize them, and there was no answer, but what to do next,

the question was, well, what will they all be declared and manafema, or all of them there, but they will flee across the border, to put it mildly, because they will have the right to cross, now, as we read in the transitional provisions, to take measures together with law enforcement agencies to check all those cases of granting msec. disabled people of the second and third groups, except when these are military personnel, when it is missing limbs, when it is in the order of increasing disability or decreasing disability, that is , the person has long had, well, what else to conduct checks, to give money to law enforcement officers, what should be a summary of this, what is the basis in the law, what norm will be accepted, which will allow to cancel these conclusions, how to force these people to appear at the military medical commission, in order to bypass the constitutional provision on the ban. there are medical examinations without my consent, that is, again there is no answer about this, it is very like, well, i think without a final conclusion, in

the transitional provisions, which i liked, several norms have appeared that will really encourage mobilized servicemen, try to encourage them to conclude contracts, it was said, it was said about the first time , it was not in the draft law that went to the... supreme council, this is compensation for 50% of the first installment on the e-loan, that is, if the serviceman takes it, and also uah 100,000 there every year for him to pay off part of it, so this is about contract workers who sign for the first time a contract during the war, that is, a person who is mobilized today and remains to serve, will conclude a contract, and also this one, which i first heard, i believe that it is probably some kind of trinket, a certificate for the purchase of a car. for 150,000 hryvnias, that is, well, there are some attempts in a poor state to keep the mobilized by concluding a contract, well , and a very big negative, this is the exclusion from

the law of clear terms of service of persons who are mobilized, no matter how it is, as mr. markiyan would say , that the individuals understand that the servicemen at the front understand what it is there can be no reasons, but the most important thing in the legislation is clarity when a person acquires certain obligations. she must understand how long they last, and it cannot be undefined, so i understood that the ministry of defense asked to exclude it from the reasons, because it is not clear how the mobilization will go, if there is no flow, then i'm sorry, no it is possible to make an outflow, because it will be the death of the state, but when i read that the state took 8 months to develop that new bill, then it is again a question... which is very demoralizing and undermines the authority of the government itself, mr. buchyn, then a baker, i see you also raised your hand, i actually want to add something, as

an educator, you spoke about the issue of graduate students and about the category that can be mobilized, yes, in the law, well , there is no such thing in the law on mobilization, but, let's say, there are certain norms that, for example, are regulated by the rules of admission to higher educational institutions, for example, this year for the first time for... the so-called which it will not be in universities, but it will be like, well, like foreign language exams, and from a foreign language, where you need to score a minimum of 130 points for admission, i.e., well, there are also certain norms that are also related to testing and so on, i.e. certain, shall we say, difficult barriers have been created so that, for example, a person could take advantage of the fact that he could go to graduate school there and, let's say, avoid mobilization, so, let's say, subordinate legal acts, they will to a certain extent, let's say, decide this issue in practice, what else i want to say, well, i absolutely agree with the fact that, well, it

's a shame that such an... archive is important for the country the law, which is actually a condition for our survival, is politicized, is somewhat inert in the context of the duration of its adoption and the like, that is, it is actually a shame, i would definitely say that we should have adopted this law even maybe not in the 23rd year, and maybe in the 22nd, when, and maybe even sooner, after all, we have been waging war with russia since 2014, i mean, we have been waging war with russia since the 14th. open, so how long was it, in principle it is strange that we start building trenches in 2024, this is another separate issue, and now i still want touch on the aspect that mr. markiiano lopachak spoke about and that you and mr. volodymyr talked about, about that 20%, about the consequences, about how to make it possible for this percentage to be more and so on, see, today i am from

mr. markiyan , lupachaka, from... from his colleagues, heard actually very important things and very important threats that potentially await us if, god forbid, we lose this war, or the situation at the front does not go as we, as we expect , as we want, and well, i, as a person, as a political scientist, as a scientist, these things i understand, but i'm sure that a lot of ordinary citizens, well, see it, as you said, in a childish way, absolutely not as it really is. and in fact, it is very important that, let's say, each of us receives and hears this information, that is, for me, it is a universal way to try to increase this percentage, or at least to change society's attitude to war, to mobilization, this is banal communication, correct communication, systematic communication, and look at what is actually happening, we, when we were told back in the 22nd year that russia could ... pasture, we did not

reacted, we cleared mines and did not prepare when russia attacked, we said through the mouths of arestovych and other representatives of the authorities that there would be two or three weeks and that was it, then we talked about the fact that we would soon be in crimea, and many others, that victory would not come soon beyond the mountains, that is, we built communication on absolutely wrong principles and on mistakes, well , let's say communication that was detached from reality, and thus we formed a social one. an opinion that is already childish, as you said, and we still have it, but we added fuel to the fire, we formed an opinion that already there is nothing to worry about, we will break russia tomorrow, russia will fall apart and that will be all, victory and there is nothing to worry about, in the end we are not the same now, well maybe somewhere now i started to see certain signs of when our government starts talking , that it is difficult for us, we can lose, we need help, we

need support, and this should have been done a long, long, long time ago, so this communication is wrong, we are now reaping its consequences, so one more thing, when we hear such important things on the air, i actually wanted there was no opportunity, but i wanted to ask mr. markian a question, that is, it would certainly be very important that the military personnel themselves, perhaps , take the initiative in this regard, that those things be distributed to ordinary citizens somehow through social networks, perhaps through some information centers, that is, it is very important to hear from the mouth of a military man. who is there on the front, who has seen it up close, about what it really is, what the threat is and how important it is that we understand this threat, because let's be honest, we've already relaxed, we've already, well let's say, as it was once in the 14th, 15th, the same way now, we already imagine somewhere that the war is somewhere far away, it does not affect us, and accordingly we can live peacefully and not pay attention to it, it is very important to communicate about this, then i, i would like us to

move from talking about the consequences to talking about the cause. and the reason why such an extremely important law was advanced, adopted and developed for so long is that this law is a hot potato that everyone is throwing around, the president, the parliament, the government, the ministry of defense, the military command, which is not actually supposed to develop legislation, it is the task of the relevant constitutional bodies, and so on, everyone is thrown around like a hot potato, no one wants to take responsibility. in reality, everyone tries to make the other responsible because they think about their ratings, because they think about the next election, and jeremy freeman clark, an american philosopher, once said that a politician differs from a statesman in that he thinks about a politician about the next election and a statesman about the next generation, everyone is trying transfer this issue to someone else.