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to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already come to the very point snake the following shots may shock you. news from the scene. live drone attacks, kamikaze. political analysis, lens. and to the point, there is no political season, exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front, svobolai frankly and impartially, the conclusions are made by yourself, the premium sponsor of the national team presents:

united by football, together stronger. so, our program continues, now we will have tetyana vysotska, an international journalist, on call from strasbourg, and i rely on her, if she is still, oh, she is, so i am directly with her i hope you are in good health, mrs. tetiana, so here, good evening, mr. mykola, here we have... it happened that ukrainian journalists, some ukrainians, are lying again, because such information was spread in ukrainian publications, let's say the european parliament made such a decision not to vote for the budget of the european council until they find patriots, not patriotic people, but this military equipment that shoots well for ukraine. i also read it yesterday or the day before yesterday, i won't lie anymore, i was very surprised, i came to work today. editors are everything to me

explained, and now you explain not only to me, but also to the audience, so is it true, so yes, is it true that they refused to vote on the budget until ukraine gets seven, well at least seven patriots, those who shoot for russian purposes, and yes, they refused to vote for the budget, but not that one, in fact, it turned out that the ukrainian media and... actually , ukrainian politicians, a lot of even first-echelon politicians took wishful thinking for granted, i don’t know if this was the case wrong translation, or just misunderstanding, how the european parliament and the main european institutions work, and actually, i think that even now not everyone has fully understood what happened, because, for example, i went to the facebook page of the vice speaker of the verkhovna rada, olena kondratyuk, and she still has it is written that the european parliament has suspended the implementation of the budget of the council of the eu until a decision is made on... patriots and mrs. kondratyuk welcomes this

unprecedented and powerful position of the european parliament, that is, such statements are still public and have not been corrected, in fact, what happened? european... parliament the day before yesterday had to vote for the approval of the budget, the implementation of the budget of the european union for 2022, that is, this is the budget that has already passed, which has already been implemented, the money has been spent, and now the european parliament, this is its procedural role, as it were, it must approve the implementation of the budget, and voting is going on separately for each major european institution, separately for the european commission, separately, including the european... council and the council of the eu, and here the moment is just approaching that before voting for the approval of the budget for 2022, that is, the budget , which already executed, the floor was taken by a great friend of ukraine,

the former prime minister of belgium, guy verkhovstat, and he stated that just, just on that day, bad news about a major attack really came. russia on ukrainian energy and about the fact that the tes near kiev was destroyed, and mr. ferkhovstat, he said, let's not vote for the approval of the budget for the european council until it gives ukraine seven patriots, because there are 100 patriots on the territory of the european union , and ukraine asks for only seven, and thus the european deputy decided simply draw the attention, once again, of the media and... european officials to the problem of ukraine, and to the extent that this statement was more like an emotional one, rather, because even the chairman questioned whether he really wanted to put this proposal to a vote, is it just rhetoric, and the deputy said, no, i want to put it to a vote, and the deputies

present in the hall approved this initiative with a show of hands, and then when the moment came to vote precisely for the financing of the european council and the council of the eu. deputies voted 500-17 seems to be votes for the vote to approve the budget for 2022 to be postponed to the next session, before the issue of providing ukraine with air defense systems is resolved, which is the last phrase, it does not sound anywhere except in the press release , there is no such document where the european parliament demands from the european council. to provide ukraine with patriots, that is, this was the collision, and the most interesting thing is that the european parliament does not approve, does not accept the budget of the european council since 2009, that is, it the vote should not and should not have taken place, because the european parliament

demonstratively does not approve the budget of the european council every year, because it does not want to report to it, if this were the case. but i understand, ms. tatyana, that ukraine will not receive even one patriot after everything that happened, well, it is such a fluctuation of the air and that's all, or can there be some, some something, something positive we will learn, and by the way, i want to congratulate you that we almost received one patriot, today germany made a statement that one patriot will be transferred to ukraine in the near future and also ammunition for it, so... well, unfortunately, it is unlikely that this was caused by the decision of the european parliament not to vote on the budget for 2022, but nevertheless, thanks germany. as for this vote, it turned out that we really expected this european

support, that colleagues, journalists, and politicians simply thought that the european parliament wants to support ukraine with this decision, the european parliament really wants to support ukraine, but there is simply no such decision. uh, no practical consequences, and this is none will not frighten or complicate the work of the european council, okay, nothing new, for some reason i thought that nothing new would be given on a big weapon at least in the near future, but my question is about the future, i am convinced that some kind of sociology already exists , and here everyone is nervous, and when i talk there with people from finland or with people from ee... estonia or with people from poland, they all say elections, elections, elections, european elections, elections, something we can imagine , what kind of election it will be, how many people will be there putin-fersteiners, less is more, there are critically

many, because there are cries that oh, there will be a lot of them there, and i am just beginning to try to understand, i do not see any such earth-shattering changes that the entire parliament is european... don't clap your hands however, i don't see how putin will see it, and you, what, what, what do you think the situation is before the elections, and the elections are literally two months away. yes, yes, and by the way, i'm preparing a big article for the espresso site on what the results of the european elections might be, so i hope in a week or so i will finish it and be able to say more concretely by numbers, because in fact there really is associology for each state, and in some states the situation is better, as, for example, in germany, the same one i just mentioned, there is support for far-right movements , which are standardly pro-russian, on the contrary, it is falling, but... in other countries it is increasing, not all countries have far-right movements that are necessarily pro-russian, for example, in the

same portugal, where the far right is rising, they are not pro-russian, they there is more pro-ukrainian, italy's prime minister is right -wing right-wing with a touch of fascism, but loves ukraine very much and does not like russia, that's how she was when she was elected, i was very surprised, absolutely, that's why, but still. the general trend, this is what european analysts say, is that the european parliament will become a little more right-wing, that is , that it will become more right-wing, it is clear whether it will become more pro-putin, we will see, we will analyze for each state to do the forecast, i'm interested, i still can't say clearly, but really this is very important for us, because we need to start negotiations on joining the european union, and the european parliament plays a big role in this, we will have an anti-ukrainian european parliament, then we will not get anything, neither the movement to

the eu, nor the actual funds , which the european union has also pledged to provide us with 50 billion euros over four years, but still, these issues still need to be resolved both at the level of the european parliament and at the level of the same european commission, which will also be elected after the elections of the european parliament, so the question is very interesting, and what is more important, that after the elections there is... the parliament from july 1, hungary begins to preside over the european union, that is, we will have a surprise in the form of a new composition of the european parliament, plus we will have orbán without surprises, who will chair the meetings of the european councils together with charles michel, and ukraine also needs to prepare for this, and that is why the ukrainians, the ukrainian authorities are trying to somehow push for the beginning of the changes to fall in june, but again, for this, they are still big. .. such there are no reasons to be optimistic from here in strasbourg and brussels. thank you very much,

tetyana vysotska, an international journalist in contact with us from the city of strasbourg. thank you, send greetings to this city. and we go further, but again because of advertising, you just can't go like that. now there will be advertising, and then we will talk about demographics. because we will have a deputy director of the institute of demography and social research named after ptuha. mr. oleksandr gladun, national academy of sciences of ukraine. but now advertising. damn you stepladders. great danes don't walk anymore. wait, i am soulful that there is no health? but what kind of health is there in the sixth decade. and i thought so until i tried herovital. gerovital plus is a phytovitamin complex that cares for the heart and strengthens the body. herovital plus. good health, active life. gerovital energy novelty. even more iron for good deeds. herovital energy - reception once a day. what

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that everyone can be a warrior, strong in spirit, appreciate the ability to stand side by side with their brothers. until the holy victory, everyone who pilots a uav, understands aita, cooks, treats, repairs, rolls kilometers of roads, fills piles of documents, significantly strengthens those who cover the enemy with heavy fire and return meter by meter our native land, join the ranks hundredth separate mechanized brigade of the armed forces of ukraine, let's keep the line together. so, our program, our marathon, oleksandr gladun, doctor of economic sciences, deputy director of the institute of demography and of social research named after ptukh, national academy of sciences of ukraine, contact us, good health, mr. oleksandr, thank you for finding time for us, good day,

well, the question is simple and complex, look, here... there is one a huge discussion, well, at least in my head, it is definitely there, because one part of society says that everything is lost, and the other part says that everything is fine, after all, it is the same with demography, we, we imagine what the population of ukraine is like, what it is may happen in 10-15 years, and are we in the european trend, as i understand it, we are in europe, even worse than in europe, i look, one of these... children per mother, in europe something like 1.4, it seems to me, 1.3, 1.4, that is, it is a little better there, what is the state of demographic affairs in for ukraine today, please, well, i want to say that the state of affairs is very bad, and this is due to the war, which greatly

aggravated all these demographic problems that we had even before the start of a full-scale invasion. and the plus is the situation that has developed, gradually developed in our demography with the population. our population began to decrease in 1993, and this continues to this day, and we, so to speak, from the maximum 52 million that we had in 1993, at the beginning of the 24th year we had approximately 42 million, within the borders of the 91st year, that is, we lost in 30 years approximately 10 million people, there is a problem, as in the birth rate, it is very low in us, in europe on average, well, you said correctly, it is different in individual countries, but in the countries of the european union it is somewhere at the level of 1.5, there are

countries in which 1.7, in france it is a little more, that is, in different countries in different ways. but practically in no country, i.e. natural, there is no natural increase in the population, there is mainly a decrease, and they compensate for this partly due to migration, as for mortality, we also had a high mortality rate of men in the working age, and we died, we lived, in general, both women and men were 10 years younger , than in europe, that's why this target was so... influenced. and the third factor - it was also there before the full-scale invasion, but it was difficult to assess its extent, it is labor migration, which gradually turned into a permanent one. and if we take from the restocking of 2001, then different experts believe that during this period before the start of the full-scale invasion, we lost

approximately two to three million people, i.e., who according to the records were still, as it were,... living on the territory of ukraine, but in reality they were already abroad, the war is all that aggravated, during the war, the death rate increases, the birth rate decreases, and this war led to crazy migration flows, according to the estimate of the united nations high commissioner for refugees, we now have approximately 6.3 million people abroad, although this number may be slightly overestimated, well even if half a million less, it's still a very large number of people, and it's not known whether they'll come back or not, plus of course the mortality on the... on the front, and besides, it's civilians dying too, this is your latest research, about which

my colleagues told me today, what you have just now summarized them about, or any other very interesting points, if they are interesting, well, interesting, not in the sense of positively interesting, but so unusual, or critical, or bad, or on the contrary very. money, what do your latest studies show? well, well, we predicted the demographic development situation, and we estimate that in about 15 years, the population will decrease by 10 million, that is , the aging of the population will continue, and due to the natural factor there will also be a decrease in the population, this... requires, well, a certain approach to solving these problems, that arise, well , now the ministry of social policy, well, with

the participation of experts from our institute, has developed a strategy for demographic development, where there are general directions, how should the state act to improve the demographic situation, there on... mortality, migration, but under this strategy, when it is already approved, it will be necessary to adopt work plans, each ministry, and again, funding is needed, what will be the capabilities of the state during the war and after the end of the war, well, i cannot predict, so the situation is very, very very acute, so let's stop panicking. first of all, i want to make an official statement right away that i do not believe that anyone will not return from europe, and these can be safely added to the 42

million, and these five who are now in europe, because when the development or reconstruction begins ukraine, if they come here, the policy will be correct, the money will come, then not only ukrainians will start coming here, poles tell me that they are already at a low start, polish businessmen, and they... that europeans and americans will give many hundreds of billions for recovery, and it's money, and where there's money, there 's business, and where there's business, there's people, so all these conversations that they went there, they won't come back, even additional ones will come back, but this system that you you say that there is a working group, this working group understands that without involvement. asian workers, african workers, muslim workers, it will simply be difficult to restore the countries,

to what extent are ukrainians prepared for the fact that during the reconstruction, not only white people will walk the streets of lviv, kharkiv, kyiv, but also people of various skin colors , is ukraine ready at all, ukrainian citizens to see this around? himself. i really liked your position on investments, but we will see how it works in practice. regarding the attraction of migrants, here is the first thing to do is to develop a new model of the existence of our state, the functioning of the state, including the model of the economy. and based on this model , we can already calculate whether we need additional working hands or not. when all this is determined, the question arises, in what way, on what legal grounds, if it is necessary, to attract citizens of other states, it is quite

possible, as many do, for example, saudi arabia, it simply engages them for temporary work and does not grant citizenship, that is, people came, worked and left, this is a completely accepted model, and it will not affect the ethnic and social composition of the population. ukraine, if it is to be attracted for permanent residence, this is a big question, whether it is how to do it and whether it is expedient to do it in modern conditions, that is, it is necessary to determine the place of our state in the world economic system, to find very, well, let's say so, profitable directions activities, and perhaps we will not need a very large number of migrants. currently they are making the following forecasts, well, the previous ones, that up to 5 million migrants will be needed, but excuse me, this is 10-15% of the population on...

the population of ukraine, well, depending on the year in which they are to be attracted, this is an insane number, and no country can withstand such a load, therefore, all this must be done very carefully, gradually and, as it were, to the point, i would say, which one, and which other , and there is another way, mr. oleksandr, excuse me, what is the other way, well, okay, we will not let in immigrants from africa, we will support... we will not encourage a family with three children, a modern family does not include three children, a modern family i do not foresee two, the modern family envisages one, and then the question is, how to encourage them? firstly, the modern family of ee, well, if, in fact, yes, in most cases it is the same, but the surveys that were carried out before

the full-scale invasion. they say that, in principle, ukrainians are set on a two-child family, and the conditions, the first condition, this was a survey a year ago, the mirror of the week conducted, precisely on these issues, we analyzed the information, in the first place wages, housing and social infrastructure, if we invest in our population, then there will be a corresponding reaction, that is, in this field, but if we think that we will bring in migrants and immediately our level... life will increase, well , this is just an illusion, first of all, they will come with their families, for this, do you think that here they will create interethnic marriages at the beginning, no, for this there must be additional jobs in the medical field, in education, in schools and so on, that is, the introduction of a large number of migrants will lead to the fact

that it will be necessary to invest in them... money not yet in them specifically, in the development of infrastructure to serve them, otherwise they will end up on the sidelines, on the social sidelines, on the social side days, and the problems that exist in some countries of western europe will begin, that is why it is so, and as some surveys show, the economic effect is not just brought in by migrants from asia and africa. or from somewhere, but from migrants with a certain level of education, then the returns from them are more normal, they adapt more and so on, but there is also research that migrants, after they move, they in the second and third generations already completely transition on those reproductive models that exist in the country where they moved, so be very careful here

must act. well, that is, in other words, if there will be large salaries or some kind of stimulation in ukraine, then ukrainians will also give birth, i understood correctly, well, they are giving birth now, they will, most likely, this is not stimulation, it is simply the creation of conditions in order for people to implement their reproductive instructions, and it works in many countries, such support. families, prenatal policy is very strong in france, and there is the best situation in europe, in the scandinavian countries, there is support for families, practically everyone throughout europe is this it's happening, thank you very much, thank you very much, oleksandr gladun, doctor of economic sciences, deputy director of the institute of demography and social research named after ptukha, national academy of sciences of ukraine, send my congratulations to the director of the academy kulibanova, who makes me crazy.

respect, for her mind, for her, for all the qualities that she has, and i say goodbye to you, good luck, we will definitely see each other tomorrow, and success and victories to all. it's 7 p.m. in ukraine, and to your attention is a news release on the espresso tv channel. in iryna's studio blacksmith. greetings to all viewers. two people died, another was seriously injured in the ocheretyn community in donetsk region. the russians dropped their guided aerial bomb on a five-story residential building. they can be under rubble.