project for those who care and think politclub. every sunday at 20:10 at espresso. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together. we return to the live broadcast of saturday's political club, and we will continue with the next guest. we are currently in touch with andriy zakrevskyi, chairman of the board of the association of oil and gas of ukraine, energy expert. mr. andrii, good evening. good evening. today we will talk with you, well, we will talk about the topic that hurts many ukrainians, hurts the energy industry and, i think, hurts in principle.

the civilized world. the occupiers once again delivered a massive attack on the ukrainian energy sector, including the kyiv region, the lviv region, the kharkiv region, and the dnipropetrovsk region, that is, they actually attacked energy facilities again. mr. andriy, please tell me whether this threatens an energy collapse for our country, at least in the near future, and what we should do about it, what about ukraine. should, what steps should be taken in order for us to avoid such a negative scenario? well, firstly, we will endure, and ukraine will endure, secondly, a pity for lost time, a pity for the lives of people, detek, ukrenergo, tsenterenergo, which at one time were under fire, that's all. shafts, they made

it possible for people to receive light, and now, when the fruits of their labors have been discussed, it is a pity, a pity that we did not spend two years in order to engage in more decentralized decentralized energy, as practice has shown, there are no such obstacles that they may not be able to knock down projectiles, what is there except the obstacles of nuclear plants and underground gas storages, but everything else is possible. it's easy to beat, it's a pity, but i don't see anything wrong with it the future, there is simply no longer a wow effect , colleagues, there is no such effect when we can be scared, there is no such direct blackmail that we would not overcome now in the next six months, that is, it is clear that we must do, we must do decentralized energy in ukraine, in your opinion, how realistic is this place? this

is a completely different approach to entrepreneurial activity, you know, in front of my eyes, i saw how the epicenter company, two girls, one angelinka, the other oksana, watched ether with me, and broke the spine to their opposition within the company, when kapstroy didn't want to build these solar panels, so they built 2 k near kiev, now 76 million dollars in total. in front of my eyes, last week the owner of the new post office called and talked to me, because something needs to be done for his customers and so on, and in a week he already created the company nova poshta energiya, but literally this happened yesterday, well, this is doing business, i am confident in our business, that is, he will buy himself 8 hryvnias for autogas at the power station to have electricity, he will also install solar power plants, he will also install embachers. for 2 years with capital investments, that

is, he will provide everything for himself, it is no longer clear to me what to do for kharkiv residents who found themselves in high-rise buildings with central heating, this is what i have problems with, but for business and ukrainians, i am calm, that is after all, relatively speaking, we now need to prepare as much as possible for next winter, as far as we understand, and above all, maybe, maybe we don’t understand something with you, we have shunting e-e generation is literally 12% of what we had just a month ago, we have only basic power generation left, these are nuclear power plants, and next year we have 12 regions of ukraine in which blackouts of more than six hours are guaranteed. per day, and in our country, if we do not

make additional crossings across the dnipro, there will be four regions that will be completely without electricity. how much time do we have to... at least minimize these things that you're talking about, because it's very important, the audience heard some specifics regarding the number of regions, and we understand that mainly these will be regions of the south and east, such as kharkiv region, kharkiv region is now just, i can list, i can list, of course, sumy, sumy, kharkiv, dnipropetrovsk, zaporizhzhya , kherson, mykolaiv, odesa, odesa regions are guaranteed to be disconnected, how many. how much is what i said, how much time is needed for energy workers, for the state in order to at least somehow minimize these things, because we understand in 8 months, even less, it will already be winter, and in fact november is already winter , relatively speaking, that is, we need

to prepare already and we need to prepare both from the point of view of protecting our energy facilities and from the point of view of responding to what... to do in order to, as i already said, at least reduce this possibility of power outages for the regions, and accordingly, the electricity will drag along, we understand everything else, well, let's face it, the state does not know how to install a gas-electric power plant for 14 months already donated by usaid, so the state needs 14 months to the end, private... campaigns, if the company is like the epicenter, then it took a year and a half to do it, if the company is like nova poshta, then it took a week, if some companies of the odesa region that installed solar panels and gas-fired power generation

took only 3 months, still in 2022, and already in december they came with their embachers, behind their gas-electric plants, and they installed them inside. workshops for so that even the heat does not pass, and this is odessa, that is, next to them there, they did not know how to de-energize the transformers and protect them, that is, they came to the point that they were knocked out the winter before last, i don’t believe for whom, the state , i personally believe that the citizens should be helped, of course, this is to completely remove the postal fees for all elements of electric stations, for any, that's it... to make it so that there are no, well, for example, loans, i'm not talking at all , if loans were given for at least three years, they would be given for three years, then tomorrow everything would run normally would put it all. in principle, if we talk about the current situation, you and i are talking in a kind of static situation, and what would be done if

the russians continue to act to destroy the energy sector, have they already done everything they could, you can say why in some static situation or not, and you guessed it. they did everything they could, that is , there will not be such an influx of asylum seekers for one simple reason, that there are no objects left, and if they will hit the gas tunnels according to the gas transport structure, i have already talked about it, in our we still have 70 such raids i can stand the way they were now, well, god forbid that people don't die, you know, and aren't injured, and what they're hitting on the pipes is, thank god, the gas transportation system, it's not electricity with artificial projects on one and a half years, for and for 10 years. and so on, we are gas workers, we do everything much faster, another such topic, very important, interesting, at the expense of the zaporizhia nuclear power plant, the russians are threatening again that they will start the zaporizhia nuclear power plant, now, as far as the last

we received a message, this morning it is in a state of cold shutdown, which threatens the actual nuclear power plant. zaporizhzhia, if it is launched by the russians, will they be able to do it in general, and does it pose a certain threat to ukraine. well, let's face it, for me the situation looks like this: at one time, dergachovska shobla allowed the wistinghaus company to install its fuel assemblies at the zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant, knowing that it would be seized. that's it. now these problems. that take place at the zaporozhye nuclear power station, they take place where the elements are installed company, where the russian fuel is located, everything is in order there, now further, if the station is in a state of cold shutdown, plus, the fuel is still in

the belly of the nuclear reactor, this is the safest place in the world, i will not repeat this , every person who has been on a tour of any ukrainian nuclear power plant at least once... and they talk about the fact that right now you are in the safest place on earth, what the russians are doing, if we raise it, that is, now, if everything will end badly and so will we'. let's start fighting for zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, it can be in the state it is in for three weeks, and nothing will happen to it. but as soon as you try, for example, to lift a special fuel assembly on a crane, at the moment when the fuel assembly leaves the belly of the nuclear reactor, at this moment the speed of your reaction to events at the nuclear power plant drops to 6 hours, and if god forbid, you take and start the nuclear reactor. and it works, this moment, this, especially, if it is under

load, well, there is a difference, now the nuclear reactor emits exactly like 700 boilers, it now emits 700 kw of heat, at the moment when it starts working, it emits a gigawatt, you understand, that is, well , there is a million times the difference that can happen, that is, the start of nuclear reactors - these are words. for me, for andryukh zakrevskyi, you have something going on in ukraine, the intelligence proves it, i don't like it, and now i will launch the zaporizhia nuclear power plant in order to reduce the speed of decision-making by your military and political leadership to minutes, that's what is happening, and by the way, what may be from zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in general, if they try to start it, you allow such a possibility, i think that it will definitely be launched and there will be some kind of accident at zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. i am sure of this, look , when he sees that he cannot

achieve something, he will still retreat, he destroys it, that is, he is only sure that there are oligarchs nearby who want to suppress, who are sorry and so on, but only he sees, he is putin, and the collective necrophiliac putin of russia, only this necrophile sees that he is up to this he cannot reach the living, he makes him dead. you see, i'm 100% sure that there will inevitably be some problem to launch. you said that the russians, in principle, have already hit all the energy facilities, at least the ones they wanted to hit. but we remember how, in the winter of 2022-2023, they did not attack power plants, but substations. stations, is it possible that such a scenario will be repeated now, when

thermal generation in ukraine is destroyed, when almost 100% of thermal power plants are destroyed, or maybe the russians will temporarily move there now in april, in may, in june, until they will strike again at the substations, which, conditionally speaking, will cause a blackout in a number of ob... stey and large cities of our country, and we will repeat the scenario that we already had a little more than a year ago. well, we are a group of idiots, for example, we restored two sink transformers, the only one, which are in the south. but of course they will hit him. i told you that there will be no light in the kherson-mykolaiv odesa region in winter, because we did not disperse there are knots. that is, we have them 100%. they will be hit, i can tell you right away, they will hit them 100%, but they will

also hit the intersections that touch and there will be sabotage along the front ones, which will go through kyiv and further through the dnipro, because if in the west of ukraine along the right bank , our power generation is very scattered, there are no very large places for the grid left over from the soviet union, and so on. well, there are large such things, only there a little near the nuclear power plants in the lviv region, and that is, in everything else there is no such concentration of concentration in the regions there, well, to be honest, if they are going to hit, well, let them hit, i will tell you honestly, because one missile there will cost 10 times more than repairs after they hit, and this also exhaustion, yes, that is, it is already a risk ratio and so on, well, in principle, they are rarely idiots. they would rather shoot something in a shopping center than just

a cheap transformer, but the crossings through the dnipro, they will beat and will beat these two transformer nodes in odesa. how are you in in principle, you can count on the fact that with this situation with the shunting thermal power plant, we will be able to get through the winter more or less normally for the population and for industry. what needs to be done, and here the question is, how will the situation with crossings abroad be, it is clear that if you have 7 gw left. generation, and you sometimes need 14 at a time, then there will never be any more, you understand, that is, well, there is nowhere to get it, the question is how much we will be helped by dispatching assistance from abroad, and this is the most expensive electricity, to be clear, that is, prices will begin to rise in the country itself, i understand correctly, and there is no other way, well, there is simply no longer

there physically, it is our leadership that is doing this... it has been dragging, dragging for a long time, here, and even now, listen , well, if they don’t raise the tariffs, that would be idiocy, but it’s already going to the tune there, i don’t know, populists like venezuela or the same russia, but if they don’t raise the tariffs, then the situation will turn out , well, what, they will be transferred from one pocket to another, so the front cannot get money, they don't give us money for the front, we spend it ourselves, that is, if they don't raise the tariffs, then it's different. i read today, for example , there is a guy from yevgeny trebin, he writes, it’s fine, he says: we need to stop engaging in populism, take and deliver from 7:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. and from 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. the tariffs will be 10 times higher, i i don't agree, this is how it should be done so that you know, then people will feel that

the time was not loaded, but no, then let people feel what is happening at that... time with the pressure from the dispatchers, when this happens, you have to catch this moment, you have to not engage in populism, you have to pay 10 times, as it is true abroad, that is , abroad, prices can soar 20 times, during peak hours there in the summer, that is, they also pay, they pay on the market, the question here is simply how much ukrainian consumers will be able to pay for such and... we understand that part of the population will absolutely not be able to do this, you know, there are fears about that that part of the population will not be able to do it to do, these fears are greatly exaggerated, in what sense, neither are many of these people who will not actually be able to pay at this time, and if they can't pay,

sir, so what the hell to include from 19 to 21 opig, well that's good question, people will tell you that they only come from work at this time, that they have no other time, because they came there, so be it, let these people say not to me, but to kharkiv residents, who at this time have the only the opportunity to learn an electric heating device in a high-rise building, because they took away the whole heat generation and everything, they will look at well-to-do kharkiv residents who have small children and nothing else. except for electricity, they won't be able to do what you tell me, i'll pay, well, that last one is probably already a question, at the expense of nuclear power plants, to what extent, as far as we understand, as of today, nuclear power plants are the main source of electricity production, well, except , let's

say wind and solar power plants, but we well understand that... there are also rashtivs, they are also putting together some puzzles in their heads, can they hit the substations related to the nuclear power plants and in fact in this way, well, at least there to temporarily remove the power supply from the nuclear power plants, which in fact will be in such a case, well, the finish line before the complete power outage, well, look, first of all, they already struck according to these... this is not news, and that's why i'm paraphrasing your question, when they hit the transformer nodes of nuclear power plants again, what will we do, i don't know, to mr. kotin, this is a question that may still be bothering us pir and projects are engaged in at the expense of the wonderful project with fistinghaluz, in 10

years we will receive two new atomic ones in five years. this is a very cool project and so on, but what will happen when they hit these transformer nodes of the bistation? i don't know, is mr. putin ready to answer this question? thank you, thank you very much, thank you, mr. andrey, andriy zakarevskyi, an energy expert was in touch with us, we will now talk about what is happening in the caucasus, oleksandr boshko, ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of ukraine to armenia in the period 1996-2001 and 2005-2010 is here. in touch, congratulations, mr. oleksandr, good evening, good evening, but recently there was a meeting of the prime minister of armenia nikolay pashanyan, the secretary of state of the united states antony blinken and the head of the european commission ursula fonde. can we say that this meeting shows to some extent a change in geopolitical priorities in armenia? it not only shows changes in priorities,

foreign policy priorities in armenia, but it also testifies to the beginning of its era, it is possible to say, the modern history of the south caucasus, the political history, which for a long... a long time was under the influence of the ruling and economic and political russia, and in this respect, i think that this meeting, the document that came out of the meeting, it is extremely important, it is primarily about its economic relations, of course in the field of multilateral relations between germany and europe. the union, the united states, it seems to me, armenia is simply transferred somewhere, to the distant year, already 2013,

the month of september, when it refused the signing of a multi-format agreement between armenia and the european union, now it is trying to make up for it, as a result, it ba... what did it lose, in my opinion, that geopolitical tragedy for the armenian people, i mean the withdrawal of armenians from nagorno-karabakh, it is also related with the mistakes of the foreign policy course in armenia, which it made in 2013. well, now pashinyan sees, sees. what this led to, in the end he decided to diversify foreign political relations,

but this also applies to economic issues, because, as we know, armenia is completely dependent on russia, and politics and the economy are the same politics, so of course it is about solving these problems and... geopolitical ones, which include economic issues, and political issues. mr. oleksandr, the question is about relations between the current kremlin and yerevan. for example, an american institution, a private institution for the study of war, says that the kremlin wants to actually challenge sovereignty in armenia, that is, de facto, to carry out various some kind of measures in order to... undermine this sovereignty, to undermine the current government in armenia, and in principle, they are already taking such actions, unfortunately, as far as such actions can

be effective, and how can armenia now resist the expansionist actions of the kremlin itself , which in principle have always been there for many years after the restoration of independence in armenia, and now these steps are becoming... let's say, more and more aggressive, especially in the context of the fact that russia is losing its political influence on domestic political processes in yerevan. in general, regarding this meeting in brussels, a lot of opinions and assessments were expressed, both in armenia and in other countries, in particular in russia, and in azerbaijan, where... they were wary of this meeting, regarding armenia, i generally follow for the events in this country, i

am constantly on facebook, so to speak, in armenian, since i speak the armenian language, i have many friends, acquaintances there, i root for this country, there were many inflated estimates, which they say, this meeting she will give armenia a ticket to europe, but, as we see, in the end this meeting came down to purely economic issues, providing support for the stability of economic stability and institutional stability. uh, in armenia , of course, uh, it is meant to oppose it, an attempt to destabilize the situation, both political and economic,

in relation to expectations, i saw the meetings, i watched the meetings in the parliament, when pashinyan met with the deputies, then the congress of pro-european forces took place , in armenia, fortunately, we also have such political power, while i was working as an ambassador in armenia, this could only be dreamed of, since after... armenia was completely tied to russia, it is absolutely said that these expectations did not come true, and this is understandable, because armenia as a country, we have experience with ukraine , she must pass a certain stage, so to speak, pass exams or something, solve homework, so this meeting was about

homework. data and not about any immediate exit, so to speak, from the custody of the political structural or that russia was not discussed on the eve of this meeting, the relevant institutions in iran conducted an analysis of the economic situation and came to the conclusion that it is impossible to make a breakthrough in any... in this regard, since everything is connected by economic and other humanitarian, including ties with russia, it is impossible to decide in a few months or years, we are even talking about at least tens of tens of years of a course in irmen to europe, the fact that it chooses such a course, it

would be... confirmed at this meeting , but this path difficult, as we have our own experience, and we wish success to ours to armenian friends on this difficult path. in your opinion, what are the prospects for a peace agreement between armenia and azerbaijan? there are prospects, there are prospects, and work is being done in this direction, but at the level of expert groups. because it is said, it is necessary to agree on many issues related to the border and some enclaves, er, with the determination of the passage of the border of the state border between armenia and azerbaijan, and, by the way, these issues have still not been resolved with georgia, armenia is also there conducts relevant work. but how

to me, as a person who is connected to that region, i see that azerbaijan is unable to emerge from the role of the winner of the war, and the winner of the war is of the opinion that he should dictate his conditions, due to the fact that all appeals of the armenians for the early signing of this treaty, some new ones appear. proposals from azerbaijan to delay the signing of this document. at the end of february this year , the prime minister of armenia, nikol pashinyan , stated that he considered it real that azerbaijan could attack armenia, i.e. in fact, a new round of war. we see that, in

principle, after these words... a month and a half have passed, these statements have not received any development, yes, but many analysts believe that such a development of events is still possible in the future, if this peaceful agreement is not signed the treaty, which you talked about yesterday, including how possible a new war between azerbaijan and armenia is, and what both countries need to do in order to... avoid it, whether to make some concessions, whether it is possible to attract international partners for to settle the actual issues, even those issues that still exist are issues of disagreement, disagreements between the two countries, well, the war, it is still going on between azerbaijan and permenia, we are talking about the cold war, we...