to share the queue, yes, to become, so to speak, in the second place, why, why is it important to prove to europe, because otherwise they themselves will have to use these systems to fight against the enemy russia, when it attacks the european nato countries, well, and of course, and of course, the purchase of patriot systems outside of the european union, outside of europe, as well ... it could be, and, well, again yesterday, yesterday's speech by the prime minister of japan, mr. kishida , in the congress of the united states of america, where he urged not to give up leadership of the united states, and apparently he was hinting that the united states could also sell to the europeans, say, 5-10 batteries of their 60 patriot batteries, but... it's telling that this is

a very bold move by the japanese, who are now becoming, well, very they are putting a lot of pressure on ukraine, so to speak, yes, i understand that they are unlikely to share their 24 batteries, petrios, theirs, because of the very powerful danger from china, which has now increased many times, but to influence on partners, but now in the world there is such a regrouping of forces, and indeed what one the side will regroup faster, that side will have advantages, and actually speaking, all strategic things will probably be decided by september 24th, maybe by october, and this requires very dynamic changes in decision-making and in their implementation, i.e. by ...

supply of these systems that we are talking about now. so, the conclusion is to divide not only patriot, but also other systems, and secondly, to persuade, to transfer not only what is there somewhere in warehouses, conditionally, storage, but to transfer what is currently in the troops , to share. then there is one more suggestion to discuss when russia struck gas storage facilities. daggers, other systems, then this gave rise to such an idea, perhaps somehow to integrate the interaction of our air defense system and the defense system of poland, perhaps this could be another such step to make the air defense shield over our country more powerful, that you do you think about such initiatives, solutions, proposals? the idea is certainly interesting, but i do not believe that nato will agree to such a move. because

actually if it is about using of the polish patriot systems, directly from the territory of poland, then this will create a situation where in russia they will call what general mili, the former, former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, who is still listened to very strongly, he said, in the first turn to prevent a kinetic collision between the nato systems and the russian ones, here exactly this will happen, so to speak, a violation of this situation and de facto it will be considered that poland has entered the war, it would certainly be much better if were quickly transferred, well, a certain number of patriot systems to the territory of ukraine and... well

, then this would avoid such a threat to nato, although i say this from the position of the general panorama of the war. undoubtedly , it would be a much better decision for ukraine if the polish systems started to be shot down, yes, and then we would feel more protected, and actually, we would feel that nato, well, actually supports us not only with weapons, but also with very specific actions, then intelligence data would be added, more would be added protection of the ukrainian sky. of course, this step would be revolutionary, but so far i do not really believe in it. as for strikes on our underground gas storages, and... on

power plants, and as for our strikes on russian refineries, on systems that process oil. in fact, now the situation looks like a certain initial stage, and the result will depend on who will hold back this scaling, i want to say that at the beginning of april, well, western analysts drew attention to the fact that russia began to hit more aims and uses no eh no eh. keeps and uses for such purposes very expensive high-precision ballistic missiles and at the same time aims at weakly defended areas where it had not previously aimed in fact ukraine does the same, chooses fan-type attacks, high-precision,

well, there are a lot of targets for ukraine already has drones that fly 1,500 kilometers away, and ukraine is also doing it, but the question now is scaling, who will have time to scale these attacks and, let's say it like this, exhaustion, exhaustion of the enemy, because there are these completely justified positions in that russia is itself operates on the border, and the task that the kremlin is now setting, it concerns... today, literally today, and the calculations are definitely on a swiss- to-swiss dialogue, for a serious conversation to begin in switzerland about freezing the war and great hopes for the fact

that participation in this, in this part of china , can lead to positional success for krem. this is definitely a danger for us, and therefore this political part of the war is extremely connected with what is happening on the battlefield, and therefore the fact that ukraine accelerates with the scaling of high-tech means of destruction and intelligence, this definitely gives a certain impetus and certain hopes that at some stage ukraine. the defense forces will be able, even without the powerful participation of the western coalition, to hold the front and to some extent destroy the russian defense potential, but

the exhaustion of our infrastructure remains a really big problem, because we know that only the strikes from march 22 to this day have caused more damage in... the country than the whole winter before that, yes, until march 22. mr. valentin, thank you very much for your explanations, for those accents that relate to the direction of changes in our air defense system. thank you very much for your valuable comments. let me remind you that it was valentyn badrak, the director of the army research center of conversion and disarmament, a military analyst and writer. and then we will talk about where ukraine can find these patriot air defense systems. we know about the initiative of britain and germany to find such air defense systems for ukraine. we will talk about this in the second part of our program after advertising and information block. greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already approached the serpent himself. the following shots

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"war and weapons" program and talk about the fact that ukraine needs strengthening of air defense systems and a number of countries, in particular germany and great britain , have volunteered. to help with the search for the patriot air defense system, and before that, the president of ukraine and the minister of foreign affairs talked about a certain the number of air defense systems that... is at least necessary to cover our cities from russian attacks. and now we are joined by a military expert, editor-in-chief of the information and consulting company defense express, oleg katkov. mr. oleg, welcome to kanaluso. good afternoon, thank you for the invitation. i'll start with the president's statement a few days ago, which said that ukraine needs at least 25 patriot systems. then the foreign minister talked about at least seven patriot air defense systems.

explain to our viewers how much we are now we have, and this is a 7.25, are these significant numbers compared to what other countries in europe have that have these weapons? regarding the number of patriots in ukraine, we can rely on exclusively public information, which has been repeatedly announced. it is about what ukraine received from the usa. one patriot, one more from germany, also germany and the netherlands collected two, and from that we are already talking about three, but also the president of ukraine volodymyr zelenskyi said a few months ago that ukraine received two more anti-aircraft systems defenses that can shoot down anything, which was not the case, but the point is that when it comes to an air defense complex that can shoot down anything, it means that it can effectively counter. both directly to ballistic missiles and aerodynamic targets such as aircraft.

only two complexes fall under this category from the available and from the available ones, because it works effectively both against such things as iskander and against aircraft, which has been proven many times by the so-called blocking patriot, and samtsi. that's about samptsi, then the fact is that in all this time, after quite a long conversation, italy and france were able to these two big... countries were only able to single out one complex, and so, and it was quite public, so it is unlikely that they would do it again , especially two at once, and it would certainly not be a secret, given the position and publicity of rome and paris in this matter, so most likely ukraine still has a little more than three patriot batteries, and the question is about which patriots themselves , these are very, very important questions, because they are objectively now in force in the nato countries including around the world. in general, two types of patriot: patriot pack 2, which uses

only jaime t missiles, which effectively fight precisely against aircraft, high-altitude aerodynamic targets at ranges of 160 km, and there is pack three, which has anti-missile capabilities and allows to shoot down ballistic missiles such as iskander , to knock down kenzhals and even circoms, that is, this is the third one, and it can also, of course, work with anti-aircraft missiles, so... for now we can only say approximately that ukraine has three dashes five, probably, patriot systems, not all of them can be paktrets, for sure 100% is known about three, relative to the number of patriots in, for example, nato countries, then recently joseph borel at the summit of the forum of europe, he directly said that the western armies, i.e. the western world, this is nato, this is the usa, plus the european segment of nato, then we are talking about the fact that... we are talking about 100 batteries, batteries, let me remind you, this is actually an anti-aircraft missile complex, because a battery

is such organizational staff structure, but if you take exactly how many batteries patriots, then there he is alone, which usually consists of one irl, one command post, six-eight launchers, again, this configuration is quite vague, we are talking about a modern digital anti-aircraft missile complex, so the number of launchers can be changed, as and usually on the smaller side, some countries cannot afford such... the number of launchers in one patriot battery, there, for example, sweden, it orders only a limited number of launchers, three or four, and japan is also far from poor country, it has five launcher batteries, but if we talk about nato countries, we are talking about 100 batteries, if to be more precise according to the available information, then we are talking about 95, of which 60 are directly in usa, and 35 to 35... uh, that's what europe has, and this 35, it's quite tentative, because it's better to talk

more about 30, because right now some countries are just in the final stages of receiving additional patriot systems , for example, such as sweden, such as romania, poland, but there she is , too, so, let's say, she has a plan to increase the number of fronts at once by two more, there are already two batteries of reinforced composition, and they intend to order another 12. and so it is also necessary to understand that even receiving the first systems, for example, as sweden did, this does not mean that they immediately have entered combat formation, usually a year should be added to this time. these are the standard terms until the full combat capability of the system, when after it has been received, so this is when we are talking about seven or 25 additional batteries for ukraine, how realistic are these indicators in terms of what they have other countries, is it possible to hope that someone

will share such a number, let's hope, because there is a fairly logical position that is broadcast here... there are patriots in countries, for example, in germany, at least there can still be at least 10 patriots as for the third, it is possible that there is still a certain amount of it in what is called warehouses, maybe in a rather dead condition, because they removed them from service during the course of, starting from the 2000s, that is, they sold them off, maybe took them out, that is, their fate is unknown, that is, in they were, well, we can talk about the fact that... and we we hope that she will give us seven more pieces, right? no, we're not talking about that, because of course, i just immediately understood that if there are patriots in the entire western world, then 1/4 part, if we talk about 25, well, it already says that it can't be easy,

as well as even about the fact that if europe is in conditions when the usa is not with at all, well, so far there are no signs that... that this is objectively a blockade of aid to ukraine, i don't know what to call it, because it goes beyond any limits, generally speaking, when the usa does not allocate aid to ukraine and thus they are shooting themselves in the foot by the fact that now everyone in poland, europe, and even japan, the prime minister is already saying in a speech in congress that the united states should return to the role of security guarantor, because, well, how is that not to provide help when you promised to do it, then... that's why we exclude 60 batteries from the american ones in this situation and then even seven batteries from the 35 there let the european ones are also quite a significant mark, so of course it's not about the fact that somewhere there someone has a whole basement there with seven dead, which is filled with patriots, you just need

it is difficult to remember where the keys to it are, to open and get the anti-aircraft missile complex from there, so when even germany is the leader of the coalition. directly, which she adds should get air defense to ukraine, she immediately said that it will not be easy, it will be some rather difficult ways with the search for some combinations, well, again, berlin has experience when together with the netherlands they assembled one battery of patriots, the netherlands handed over, by the way, two launchers, the other one was given by germany, and even then there may be such a situation that it will be necessary take somewhere, someone will give one starter, someone will give a car. communication, for example, one too, somewhere someone there will transfer the radar station, for example, somehow it will be restored, someone there it, because it is precisely the radar station that is the main core of the complex, without it it is, well, let's say this, it is a separate conversation, but we believe that it cannot work without it, and all this is additional, in fact, in addition to

the direct question of where to get the patriot batteries themselves, uh, well, here and there... by the way, it should still be noted that germany also said that she would look for options outside of europe, asia and the middle east, as i understand it, that’s exactly asia, she means japan, which does not export weapons, in principle, but the missile may be handed over to the americans, but, well , she recently shot an independent there self -restraint regarding the export of weapons and can transfer those missiles that it produces at mitsubishi for... sell to the usa, in the event that the usa does not provide assistance, you can forget about it, taiwan, well, there are seven batteries, well, japan has 24, 25, and ta taiwan still seven, taiwan, well, nothing will be transferred for sure, there is south korea, of course, well, it also does not transfer any weapons to ukraine, and it is quite

clear why, because there, next to them, is the dprk, which is constantly testing something there. rockets into the sea and shows what she 's going to do to soul and all that. the middle east is a very difficult region in terms of trade, weapons and diplomacy in general, but there are indeed patriots there. in particular, only saudi arabia can have up to 25. why up to 25, because we are talking about countries that are much more advanced in the public sphere than for example, the countries of europe or the usa, and therefore it is possible to talk only about a certain - well , gap, how much there can be, it is 18 or 25 pes, well, approximately this gap. saudi arabia is really quite a possible potential donor because... that it's quite directly focused on european, american weapons, and, well, let's put it this way, there's a chance, in my opinion, but if, of course, it's not

berlin that's going to negotiate, because since the 18th year, berlin has been blocking the sale of eurofighter fighters to hunting arabia, so here is the participation more london, which was also announced by the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine koleba, which will also look for patriots, can be much more positive, because ... the trade balance of weapons with saudi arabia and great britain directly 10 billion in the last 10 years and pounds and dollars. mr. oleg, we are now talking about peytorts, about complexes. we, for some reason, forget first of all that rockets for these systems should definitely be in the first place. what about production, means of impression under the patriot, what are the needs, what are the possibilities of manufacturers to satisfy the demand of both ukraine and other countries that use these weapons. here it becomes even more difficult, that is, it is clear that it is already clear that they are not lying around with the patriots, and there is also a problem with missiles. regarding

the production of new missiles, because of course there are reserves, we still hope that ukraine will still receive missiles from the reserve, and not wait until they are manufactured, because otherwise everything becomes quite critical and... maybe just explains what the search for patriots rests on the number of missiles themselves, which will need to be transferred, that is, even if you get 205 batteries of patriots there, there may not be enough missiles for them in such a banal way, what is the problem with regard to the production of missiles, there are gmt missiles that are intended for destruction aerodynamic targets, they are produced by rayton, and the officially announced rate of their production is 20 missiles per month, 240 per year. on all the patriots in education that there are, for understanding, if even just to charge these, well, take all the american patriots and

load them with these missiles then that means that rayton has to run for about 7-8 years just to provide one total zaab of these us patriots at the current rate, of course it is expanding, the important aspect here is that they are expanding production missiles, the production of gmt missiles is now starting in europe, it will be in germany, a joint venture with ratem + mdba, kablock, but the first missiles should leave the factory in two years, and in the 27th year the pace in 26-27 the pace of production of jam+ missiles should constitute 35 rockets per month. regarding missiles, anti-missiles, or rather mce anti-missiles, that is, which are intended for the patriots, and should be shot down already. effectively everything else, the official announcement and well, this is public information

absolutely, it became the subject of congressional hearings in the congress there, even the elimination of the budget, the fact is that locket martin currently produces 500 mce anti-missile missiles, that 's all, well, there's something else in japan, but again it is not known, because japan ... did not announce any data regarding the american 500 units per year with plans to expand to by the 27th year, their production is up to 750 per year, but for this you need money from the pentagon, from the pentagon, the pentagon needs money from the us congress, that is, everything is complicated, but the plans are 750 until 2027, quite realistic in any case, because again , there are more and more patriots in the world, this is the main system that will definitely be in service. another ten years, and even taking into account the fact that work is currently underway to integrate these missiles, mci, at the american launch pad angle and other systems with

ship systems, mr. oleg, right now we are talking precisely about patriots, about missiles aimed at patriots, and in front of you i am speaking with alantyt badryuk, he spoke about the need to look around and look for countries that can also have anti-aircraft systems. south korea, in order to receive support in such systems of similar power, conditionally speaking, what do you think about this, does it make sense to expand the fleet of our air defense systems, everything rests on the possibility, in particular, in turkey, let's say, there are air defense projects defense, three at once national projects under the common name khaysar, and their essence is to create their own proposal, this is against the background of the fact that turkey bought the s400, received sanctions, the patriot is already there, the price list did not accommodate them

. it is possible to understand, after all, a billion dollars and missiles for 2-3 million dollars are quite expensive, so they went the way of investing maximum funds in creating their own, there is a really long-range khaysar missile complex in, at the same time, it is still only, let's say, at the stage of completion trials and the beginning already mass production, that is, it is not about the fact that it is possible to get them in ready form and... in quantity right now, it is actually, if you order, then you have to wait for years, relative to south korea, the whole problem with this country is that again after all, in the case of anti-missile defense, it relies on american complexes, relies on patriots, relies on american deployed tet complexes, and in the end does not produce similar complexes with anti-missile defense capabilities, there is a country

that... really has the ability to create and sale of anti-missile defense systems, which also does not export weapons to ukraine, like south korea, this is israel, this is the david's sling complex, the most interesting, it is already approved for export, its first customer was directly finland, and it is significantly less expensive than the patriot and its rocket cost, according to official data, they were announced in the pentagon. 20% of the cost of mci, that is, approximately $400-500 against three. and she, this rocket should be integrated into the next iteration of the patriot pak-4, which is currently under development. but here it is very important, nevertheless, regarding these slings of david and this missile, to understand that israel still maintains such a difficult political position regarding the transfer to ukraine and the sale or at least the re-export

of weapons to ukraine. he is blocking it, mr. olezh, literally one minute, how would you predict searches from the patriot system for ukraine in the short- or medium-term perspective, what is the best ukraine can count on according to your estimates, unfortunately, again, the situation is in the first place depends on the usa, if the usa will still accept its general aid budget for ukraine. then the question of where to take the patriots, where to take the missiles to them, they automatically disappear, this opens up the possibility of increasing the necessary amount of ukrainian means, in the conditions of the us blocking aid to ukraine, this is a very difficult question, maybe in europe they will be able to collect really one, maybe two batteries , this is in the short term, in the future , of course, they can say that now one, now the day after tomorrow two, and then more

there... we are not going there yet, but it can be later, of course, with such an aim for the 26th-28th year. mr. leger, thank you very much for your professional comments, for your time. let me remind you that this was oleg katkov, the editor-in-chief of defense, our information and consulting company, and if we talk about the results of this program, then we really have a demand for at least 25 patriot systems, we see that this is an extremely ambitious goal, if at all ... if we can get five systems of a similar class from our partners, it will be very, very good. so it is necessary to make a bet on cooperation with european companies regarding the acquisition of european air defense systems, and still not to forget about cooperative projects with a number of countries, where we have to create joint air defense systems for various purposes, which are also extremely necessary to solve various tasks, and for the protection

of peaceful cities and for... the protection of the battlefield, so we hope that these projects will develop and really have a concrete result on the front line. these were the main accents related to looking for patriots for ukraine, stay tuned to the espresso channel, there will be a lot of interesting information.