good health, take care of yourself and your relatives, see you tomorrow, what is happening in georgia, protests due to the government's plans to register so-called foreign agents, as they do in russia - this is what the georgian opposition says, that is, georgia is getting closer to russia, not with is union, we are talking about this on the bbc live from london, i am evgenia shedlovska. so, in tbilisi, since the beginning of the week , there have been mass protests, clashes between demonstrators and the police over the draft law being considered by the parliament. which, after all, the deputies accepted in to the first reading the day before, when, as you can see, thousands of people gathered under the walls of the parliament. the draft law provides for the registration of organizations that receive funding from abroad. it is officially called about the transparency of foreign

influence, but the opposition christened it differently - russian, because it believes that it is a copy of the russian law on agents, which is used in russia to persecute media and politicians, georgian government officials assure that this is not so. and you will say that it already happened, and indeed, in march of last year, the ruling woman the georgian dream party tried to pass it, but then there were protests, the event criticized it and the authorities withdrew the draft law, well, a year has passed and the parliament is considering such a document again, although some of the wording in it has been changed: instead of an agent of foreign influence, now there is a term organization that pursues the interests of a foreign power, and accordingly, non-governmental companies, zmi, which receive more than 20% of funding from abroad, must be registered as such organizations, but despite the name change, the opposition, protesters still call it the law on innocent persons, like the russian law, and look. as the consideration of this

document began in the parliament on monday, an opposition deputy threw his fists at one of the leaders of the georgian dream government party, when he was speaking on the podium, answering the parliamentarians' questions, scuffles broke out, and the broadcast of the meeting was interrupted. so, fights in the parliament, protests on the street, but the bill was passed in the first reading, this is the first step, because the georgian dream party and their deputies have a majority in the parliament voted for, but can the protests turn into the maidan? this is what bbc correspondent nina ahmeteli, who works in tbilisi, says. the main slogan of the protests was no to the russian law in europe, because that is what they call this bill on the transparency of foreign influence in georgia. the reason is the similarity of the bill with the russian law on foreign agents, which was adopted in 2012 . according to a large part of the public sector, a large part of independent media and the opposition, the purpose of the law is to suppress criticism of the government. and more painful potential the consequences are that it will hinder the european

integration of georgia. let me remind you that in december of last year, georgia acquired the status of a candidate for the european union, and now georgia is clearly moving in the opposite direction. and this is confirmed by reactions not only within the country, but also by western partners. in washington, in brussels, on the part of the european parliamentarians, on the part of the eu representatives, who one by one call not to adopt such a law and say that it will become an obstacle, that it will distance georgia from of the european union, and not vice versa, will bring it closer to it. what's next, the president of georgia , solome zorobishvili, promises to pass the bill if the parliament passes it as a whole, and here's why? this is extremely disturbing because it is an exact copy of putin's law, which was passed in 2012 and gradually became more and more strict. this law is directed against the activities of public organizations. the law is aimed against the activities of the media, the law is aimed at... georgia, the development of state

institutions, the development of our economy throughout the last 30 years and much more, and that is why we are very worried, that is why last year this same law did not pass due to mass protests and it could not be passed, this year repeating this step is a direct provocation for society. decided that this law should be restored, is it in georgia or beyond our borders, or was it decided in moscow? this is the main question, regarding transparency, that the georgian population asks, and it asks this question in many, many other cases, and we are experiencing, already the third day of mass demonstrations, mass and peaceful demonstrations, and i call on the authorities not to resort to any form of direct or indirect repression. but not everything is so simple, if the law is passed, president.

it will, the parliament can override the veto with one more vote. how will this affect georgia's move to the eu? in the eu, this draft law, like last year, is criticized, the president of the european council said. such a law will distance georgia from the european union rather than bring it closer, and the fact that it will become an obstacle to european integration, the european commissioner for enlargement also stated. georgia received the status of a candidate country for joining the eu at the end of last year, with the condition that it fulfills the recommendations of the european commission, in fact one and a half years after ukraine and moldova received such status. however, prime minister of georgia iraklii kobakhidze declares that the draft law on inagents, on the contrary, is european based. on european values, it is necessary for transparency and accountability to make it clear who receives foreign grants and how, and he rejects the criticism of representatives of the event, but i repeat the argument, you have seen these statements, for example, stoltenberg and scholz, they

say that the law is against eu values, in which part, which clause of the law, why, zero arguments, so in such a situation these statements will not work to force us to reconsider. our decision, statements without arguments will not make us change our minds, so i again suggest that they start open discussions. open discussions are necessary for georgian society to receive full information about this law. and even last week, the georgian prime minister was in berlin, meeting with german chancellor olaf scholz, who told him that he hoped that georgia would listen to the eu's criticism of the bill and not have it. so why is georgia drifting away from the eu? we are talking about this with the columnist, the head of the board of the civil network opora, olga aivazovska, with us on the air, ms. olga, congratulations, georgia is already a candidate for eu membership, but if this law is passed, despite the protests that we have seen,

how big an obstacle for georgia will it be on the way to the eu? congratulations, i believe that this will be a big obstacle, because first of all the candidate status... of georgia, as you already are noted in their stories and summaries, was given not simultaneously with ukraine and moldova, and that had a certain prerequisite. due to the fact that events are taking place in georgia that indicate rather collaboration with the russian federation than the direction of the state's movement at the geopolitical level towards the west, there are big questions about the influence of shadow persons who do not have a representative mandate, i am talking here about... a big oligarch who rules the state in a shadowy way, despite official institutions, for the european union, it was a big challenge, in addition, georgia is helping the russian federation to circumvent the sanctions imposed on the russian federation in connection with a full-scale

invasion on the territory of ukraine, and at the end of last year it was such a bow, a positive movement, an outstretched hand of help to civil society, to georgia, to society. in general, in order for reforms to take place within the state and the prospect of european integration, the adoption of such a law is a red rag for the european commission, in my opinion, for the european union and european politicians, because they must be aware that in fact, one way or another, georgia is duplicating the path of the russian federation, and we are talking about its official power, its government, its parliament, of course the president, and before that. the law has other positions and we have heard them, but nevertheless, those who have power, the full power, unfortunately, do not demonstrate a pro-european movement. but at the same time , the representatives of the georgian authorities, they convince that this law is necessary. let 's listen together as the chairman

of the georgian parliament's committee on foreign relations spoke about it. i'm talking to you from of the country that is under the crosshairs, i am in the parliament building in the central part of georgia. the capital, tbilisi, and 20 miles away are russian occupation forces that have occupied 20% of georgia, so this country has fundamental security challenges associated with the occupation. in addition, we live in a troubled, unstable region with wars north of our border, russia's war of aggression against ukraine, tensions south of our border between our neighbors in armenia and azerbaijan, and the situation near ours is close to a state of war. of non-governmental organizations working in georgia, which is one of the highest indicators in the world per capita. given the fact that the population of georgia is 3.7 million people, that's almost one ngo for

every 148 georgian citizens, and 90% of these ngos receive funding from foreign sources, and there's no... no accountability, no transparency of where it's coming from funds and what they are spent on, therefore it is important for us to ensure the transparency of foreign funds financing. olga ivazovska is with us on the air, so representatives of the authorities talk about transparency and accountability, at the same time there is a threat from russia, which supports the self-proclamation of abkhazia and south ossetia, does this law move closer to european integration or further away? well, of course, what makes it distant, it seems to me that it is a big manipulation to claim a small distance to the armed forces of the russian federation from tblisi, we are talking about the occupied territories. and at the same time circumvent and help russia with sanctions, because economic indicators,

financial demonstrate this path of development of georgia today, any legislation can be used in different ways, because on the one hand transparency, i don't know, video cameras, smart cities can be in favor of security, and on the other hand, as china uses it, it digital prisons, in this case there is no threat. on the part of non-governmental organizations that already work transparently, it is easy to shame them by the fact that they receive funds, for example, from the european union or the united states for their regular work, to call them foreign agents or any other way, to link, while russia, which uses its material resources for bribery, creating public opinion, disinformation propaganda, never officially provides these funds. organizations, this is an obvious fact, accordingly, transparency will be only for those

resources that are already provided transparently, with transparent tasks and values ​​to non-governmental organizations of georgia, it is impossible to overcome the influence of the russian federation in this way, moreover, unfortunately, the government of georgia today, the parliamentary most show duplication russian methods of combating the non-governmental sector. but ms. olga, we remember how in the past, on the way to the eu, georgian reforms were set as an example to ukraine, so what has changed over the years, so why is georgia lagging so far behind ukraine in its european integration now? reforms were set as an example not under this government, not under the georgian dream, and not under ivanishvili and other leaders who succeeded saakashvili and his group of reformers, and this means that the sustainability of the reforms... was ensured because it was directly connected with names, with certain teams, certain political groups,

they were replaced by others, and these reforms ended, this is an obvious fact, unfortunately for georgia, for georgian society, which continues to protest, for me there are many analogies with ukraine, because we remember 2013 as a revolution of dignity, when the authorities considered it necessary to abandon the association agreement... as a society that was active, went to the maidan to protest against this, georgia is very reminiscent of this story, and unfortunately , those dictatorial laws that should have been implemented in ukraine, under this threat today is georgia, whose society quite actively expresses its position against the idea of ​​this law, the draft law, and has already taken to the streets en masse against it on several occasions. well, in fact, this is already... the second time that such a bill has been protested in georgia, the first protests were

last year, ms. olga, thank you for contacting us olga vazovska, head of the board of the public network opora, we they talked about the protests in georgia. well, and speaking of georgia, there is another factor, this the elections, which will be held in the fall, will be held in october, and the party of the government, georgian dream, is trying to keep its own. positions, well, the protests in georgia are happening because the parliament passed the bill on the transparency of foreign influence in the first reading, this is the first step, the opposition, the protesters believe that this bill is very similar to the law in force in russia. well, that concludes our issue, see you tomorrow.

congratulations to all viewers of the espresso tv channel. every thursday traditionally at 21:15 the project speaks great lviv. we discuss all the most important events taking place in our state and try to predict what will happen in the coming months. we will not hide the fact that we are already working on youtube. vitaly portnikov is already with us, so we will continue with him.

vitaly portnikov, journalist, publicist, is in our studio. our viewers on youtube, who watch the broadcast carefully, join in. with our questions, we return to the help that they have to vote for ukraine on saturday in the united states of america. you, mr. vitaly, in the first part of our conversation , it was mentioned that it might happen that even speaker johnson will be changed, how much it can drag out the process, and here the viewers write to us, what happened to johnson, yesterday he did not want to put the aid package, and now he wants to send bullets to ukraine? i think this is before, firstly, the pre-election situation and... and secondly, maybe johnson's understanding that he has to do his duty, so as not to be ashamed, he never said that he was against help of ukraine, v he had certain conditions, he discussed these conditions with donald trump, 7.5 billion of this money should be allocated as a loan from 60,

and in principle, all the conditions set by speaker johnson have been fulfilled. the question is raised, what reason does he now have to refuse aid to ukraine, here i see the latest publications on the results of the conference of the republican party in the house of representatives, the participants of which are told that mike johnson is not worried about losing the position of speaker, and he is seriously worried about ukraine, and of course more than those republican interlocutors of his with whom... he spoke, they say that they would like to help israel and resolve the border issue, and they have differences with the speaker, but as you understand, there are differences, and there is also a convergence of positions , because the republicans cannot deny themselves the decision to help israel, and these are, i would

say, the coincidence of interests, there is a part of congressmen who want to help ukraine, there is a part of congressmen who want... israel, there is a national security project, which is also important for many, because there are many solutions, by the way, the confiscation of russian assets is also there, and there is aid to the countries of the pacific basin, and this is also important for many, because you understand that the issue of taiwan worries many american politicians as well, and what will happen next, so maybe they this will come together, one part will vote for one, one for another and there will be a majority on each bill, but let's wait. what happened to the speaker is difficult to say, and it often happens that people somehow begin to think politically, even at moments when it would seem you don't expect that from them, so let's wait for the vote, you see that there is still the question of the democrats, i think that some republicans thought that the democrats would not agree to the separation of this bill, they agreed, well, and

i i wanted to ask a question precisely in this context, whether the situation could be unfolded in... another direction, because there is such a feeling that the same johnson is now attracting a little attention, a blanket on himself, that it is said that they are preparing this bill, and biden wanted to combine it all there, but he didn't can the president of the united states say, you are pulling the blanket and that is why we will not help ukraine, so i just wanted to ask that, is the situation there a lot, there are a lot of important points, let's say there is a point with atakams missiles, this law provides for the separation of russia where. .. locked missiles, by the way, such missiles that can be fired on the territory of russia, and the white house never wanted this, but it says that these missiles must be allocated, and if the president will not allocate these missiles, let him explain congress, than it threatens the national security of the united states, and president biden will have to explain it to congress if he denies us these missiles, but it will be better

for the republicans, not the democrats, right, so in this situation, of course. everyone fights for their political interests, everyone, i would say a realistic politician, because there are people like major taylor green, who says that aid to ukraine can be provided only after we have a change of government, it has such an amendment, and at the same time after this news, this is already a final question, but again anyway, did the united states dare to do this politically, your position is interesting, on the air of russian propaganda programs they started talking about the fact that, well, everything is now clear, they will demolish the crimean bridge, these attack aircraft will fly there, and all this will be done by ukraine, dedicate another term to the inauguration of putin, well... what can russia do that, many different holidays, if russians like to do everything on holidays, then we can also give different gifts on their holidays, let's say the most famous bridge, it will be called the restoration of the ferry

crossings, so you can congratulate the russians in different ways, let's say, in our comments they write that on easter there is a possible cessation of shelling from both sides and who exactly can agree on this, well, here we can hardly hope for that, the russian federation, on the contrary , on some christian holidays ... likes to show, you see, that there is no more church in the russian federation, that the organization that calls itself the russian orthodox church is just a gang in cassocks, people who consecrate ballistic missiles, have you ever seen such a thing, they approve the killing of peaceful women and children, we can seriously call comrade gundyaev, patriarch kirill, well, of course, you can call anyone anything, whatever you want, there have been many massacred people in history. of any religions, but these are just unbelieving people, if even one of them believed in god, we are not talking about politics, history, just god, then he would never allow himself to behave the way he behaves

above the leadership of the so-called russian orthodox church. thank you to vitaly portnikov for this meaningful conversation, journalist, writer, tv presenter, publicist and political commentator, mr. vitaly and i traditionally start our thursday broadcasts, i hope we will keep the tradition for next thursday, and now we are moving with... natalya to our large studio of the largest discussion platform of our country. we welcome everyone and are ready to introduce to our audience those guests who are with us in the studio today, ihor samovolos, director of the middle eastern studies center. congratulations we say good evening to mykhailo varvarych, a veteran of the amphibious assault troops. congratulations. mykhailo tsimbalyuk, people's deputy of ukraine, is with us. i wish everyone good health. mykola knyazhyts, people's deputy of ukraine, european solidarity, co-chairman of the group of inter-parliamentary relations with the republic of poland. congratulations! mykola veresen is with us today, journalist, public and political

figure, mariana verkhoturova, candidate of historical sciences, associate professor, head of the department of international activities of the research institute of public law. good evening! good evening! gentlemen, we just spoke with vitaly portnikov, we talked a lot about what will happen on saturday. it seems to me that today's decision that the vote will take place was such an important breath of fresh air for all ukrainians, we have been living in this format for the fourth month, the fourth, yes, at least the fourth month, well, before the new year, the united states will help so much, no the united states will help, now it seems that the situation is moving in a positive direction, mr. mykola knyazhetskyi, well, you... both on european issues and on polish issues, but we will still ask you about the united states of america: you do you believe that what we have been talking about since the end of november will happen on saturday

? well, it's not a question of faith, it's a question of hope, obviously i hope so, i really want it to happen, because the bills that johnson proposed, they do not really contradict what biden originally talked about and the first option that he approved senate, it must be said that a third of these funds go to the americans themselves. to replenish their weapons, a large part goes to the purchase of our weapons, only more than 7 billion dollars of the united states states goes as aid to our budget, which is very important for us, and these funds are supposed to be given to us as a loan, but this loan can be canceled by the president, can be canceled by 50%, later canceled by 100%, and it is not such a large amount, because we are the president of america, so he can, we receive more from the european union annually out of the 50 billion that they approved, that is, we would stand up and give this loan, but if it is as aid, will the loan be canceled , of course it will be very good. the only alarming thing is that after all aid to ukraine, israel and taiwan

will be treated as separate bills, and there is a question of how they will be voted on, whether they will be voted on as a package, despite the fact that they are separate bills, or whether they will be voted on individually, and i believe that , that even if they are voted separately, there should be enough votes to support. country, and biden has already said that he will sign it, because we have reached a certain critical point, and the american political community understands this, if the republicans put the responsibility on the failure in afghanistan, first of all on biden and his policy, then in this case, if, god forbid, some bad things happened on the ukrainian front, then the republicans, who blocked support for ukraine, would be responsible for it, i think that they realize this, there have been many different negotiations between the republicans and the democrats, and if a consensus has really been reached and support for ukraine will be voted, it will be extremely important for us, especially from the point of view of weapons, because our main problem is on the front now, first of all, it is a lack of weapons, the second

is... a lack of people, as we all know, but these are also related things, because the more weapons we have, the fewer ukrainians will die, and when we we see what is happening with our air defenses which are sadly depleting and we see really positive steps from germany who said that seven more patriot systems will be provided from various countries of the european union to protect the skies in our peaceful cities and at the front , because we know that these systems were also used there, if all this happens, then of course it will be. to inspire us to victory, because the mood in ukrainian society due to many factors, but largely due to the lack of this western aid, due to such great debates, our morale, it began to fall a little, although in fact, according to sociology, there is still quite high, and ukrainians continue to believe in victory. mykola veresen, i would only add that i would urge ukrainian politicians to learn from american politicians,

because this is just a vivid example of... death ukrainians in this case, but in principle the republicans got everything they wanted, this whole list that they put forward as a claim, please, everything is accepted, biden wanted to help, please, ukraine wanted to get weapons, please, well, we hope, and here it still works out, and this, well, this is not a zero-sum game, which we eastern slavs and the post-soviet space are very concerned about, either i have to win everything, or he has to win everything, and then i lose everything, and they are through long negotiations, four months, and that's it for us critical, because people are dying, and for them this is a normal policy, until we come to an agreement, we will not leave his table, and they

did, well, somewhere... on the opposite end of my sphere, people are dying, well, mykola, well, here it must be said that this iranian attack on israel was also a significant factor, and the participation of both american and british aircraft, they most likely believed in their effectiveness, yes no, well, after all, completely double standards, firstly there was would be difficult to use, because they protected israel, and secondly, iran showed everyone that if the same iranian shaheds are reworked... with different brands only, but with the same parts , they destroy ukrainians, so why do they destroy, why do they protect israelis, and not protect ukrainians, and they saw the determination of this axis of evil, because putin did not condemn this attack on israel, he did not say a word, and this attack by iran once again showed that the formation of the axis of evil, where there is iran, where there is north korea, where there is such an incomprehensible, rather understandable, veiled behavior of china, all this threatens the future and

national security of the united states america. and ukraine is becoming a very important factor here, it became such a factor that i think prompted this decision, and where there are identical missiles that fly, in particular, drones that fly both to iran and to ukraine, of absolutely the same production. in our studio, there are no people from our usual audience, who have been with us for many years, but now the situation is such that we cannot put it at risk, there are still many people in the studio, suddenly we have to go to the shelter, it will be a little difficult to organize, but we have a chat under our broadcast. where they write precisely ours regular viewers, we already know them, and tanya prysiazhniuk, a regular viewer from lviv, writes: "i could never imagine that the usa could be so ashamed." ukrainians also have such thoughts. and vietnam and afghanistan, they only did what they were ashamed of. americans always take care of themselves, listen, well, they fled from vietnam, just fled, and how many tens of thousands were shot by the communists, how

many in afghanistan? was destroyed, the americans came, looked, it doesn't work, well, we left, we have our own affairs, we are at home housework, there is still homework, but mr. mykola said an interesting thing, that we, our ukrainian politicians, really need to learn from situations one by one, ms. maryana, i have a question for you, but we understand that if it were not for this hitch with help, and so far it has not been resolved on the part of the united states, we would not have such a determined europe. er, it is possible that they planned all this so that europe would also wake up, and then they gave help, but from the point of view of history, we now understand that europe, well, at least in words , is becoming very militant, which it was not decades, from the point of view of history, i would like to point out first of all the history of the work of israeli diplomacy, which we saw at the beginning of the war in ukraine in the 14th.