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sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together. we continue the bereber program. this is a joint project of the tv channel and the first crimean tatar tv channel of the apr. in the studio. gultsum khalilova, my colleague, i am andriy yanitsky, and today is our second guest, boris babin, ex-representative of the president of ukraine in the autonomous republic of crimea, mr. boris, congratulations, good day, alley. so, the black sea security conference of the international crimean platform was held in bulgaria, your colleague was there, and i know that you know the details of what was discussed there, what is the significance of this conference for the future liberation of crimea, tell me. us in more detail, and why exactly

bulgaria to yours? well, look, this conference is already the second, it's the black sea security conference, so it's held in the black sea countries, last year it was romania, and it was the first conference, the responsible bodies from the ukrainian side are primarily the ministry of defense and the ministry of foreign affairs, so this is a certain specificity of this conference, it is expert in a certain dimension, that is , experts gathered on the first day, diplomats, representatives of the states, participants of the crimean platform on the second day. what can be said here? first of all, it is good that it is being held, it is good that we are learning to be consistent, because this is an annual conference, it should take place and provide an appropriate update. my colleague olesya tsybulka, also from the association for the reintegration of crimea, had the opportunity to speak at this event conferences. what can be said about its meaning? first of all, it is necessary to strengthen the institutional capacity of the crimean platform, especially in the expert dimension. that's why my colleague and i. let's put it this way,

remotely, we just presented the previous developments, which were held by the kritary resource center, at the future of crimea strategic forums, we held three in the last two years, just the last forum, which was in march, it was dedicated increasing the institutionalization of the crimean platform, primarily the expert one networks, because if we have an expert network, it should work, so experts should give what they are called experts. not because i came to the tv studio in a crib, yes, but because i have to give a certain intellectual product, a certain significant, as they say, cost price, which is then put on the table, put on the table by the participating states, international organizations, in order to in order for a person to write something, it is necessary that, firstly, someone pays something for it, secondly, that she bears responsibility and has a certain status, but we have already had the crimean platform for three years, and a little we don't see answers to these questions, and that's why the relevant internal regulatory documents have just been worked out, you know, it's purely tedious work, first of all, at first glance.

bureaucratic, we don't like bureaucracy here, we like slogans, so that a person spoke with a beautiful high podium, said something, then she left this podium and what's next, so what's next, we worked, the appropriate additions will be provided and the crimean platform itself, and the expert network, then the ball is already in their court, they will want whether they approve or not, let them continue to exist as they exist, i mean precisely the expert dimension, and with regard to the interstate dimension, it is also important, we have to prepare certain interstate agreements, at least regarding the office of the crimean platform. it is not institutionalized, it has to be enshrined, not only at the level of a declaration, it is good that they are approved, but at the level of certain agreements, so that this system grows into what we call a mechanism, what we call certain structural movements, and so that it was precisely from the network that unites the states that unites in permanent interaction, it should be an international staff, it should be relevant offices and so on, a full-fledged international supranational structure, then it will work, as far as i understand... the very idea of ​​the crimean platform

was born when there was an idea to return crimea through diplomatic means even before the military full-scale invasion of russia, and then it seemed that the topic of crimea was disappearing in the news. space, international, that's why we came up with such a format, the crimean platform, let's draw the world's attention to the crimean issue and somehow spread it, let's increase it, now already in the dimension of a full-scale invasion, when a hot war is going on, and when something actually explodes on the territory of crimea every day, and we see that crimea will be liberated after all by the force of ukrainian weapons, not sooner than by diplomatic efforts, what is the role of the crimean platform, is she preparing an adaptation? well, look, first of all, the fact that it was created is actually very good, because maidanchyk has to discuss our word crimea, yes, it is very convenient, you know, to talk about coffee in yalta there is chiburek chi-sarai, it gives insults, but there is the other dimension is the dimension of real integration pre-occupation, there is a measure of violation of international

law, crimea became a precedent and a negative precedent for attempted annexation, so this is exactly the mechanism of the crimean platform, it was a very successful step, so if we recall the history of the crimean... platform, it was created even before the full-scale invasion, as a tool of such diplomatic influence on other countries in order to raise and make the crimean issue more visible, and then it seemed that this was the right way, because there were no other tools, but today we we see that during the already heated phase of the war in crimea, something explodes every day, and we understand that crimea will be liberated by the force of ukrainian weapons, here diplomatic efforts, they are already taking second place, what role does crimea play now? the form, what does it do, preparation of crimea for deoccupation, reintegration or measurement, the situation that is now in crimea, what is its role? look, well , first of all, indeed, when it was created, it was a platform for increasing attention to crimea, but not only in terms of, you know, such purely

of pr, it is very convenient to say there, coffee tomorrow in yalta, concert in yalta the day after tomorrow, cheburek barcheraya there, it adds likes, yes, it is normal for politicians, but there is another dimension, there is a dimension. of real work, and that is why this step was really timely then, because it was nothing diplomatic, as they say table talks, i.e. conversations, it was just putting crimea on the agenda as a precedent, a negative precedent, an attempt at annexation, an encroachment on the whole world legal order, as they say, the rules of the game recognized by civilized nations, and therefore it is, as they say, shot, and our enemies took it very painfully, because they knew what it could lead to, in terms of how to liberate crimea, this one from... then this is a mantra about diplomatic ways, i can say, whoever wants to, let him check, that i always said a very simple thing: it is not possible to return something that was taken by military means, not by military means, even if we carry out the return without, imagine,

imagine, without active hostilities, it must still be a military operation, because the russians occupied the crimea in february 14 with a small by blood, yes, but it is a military operation, and there are no other ways, as they say, of controlling the territory during an armed conflict, so all these mantras are mantras, yes, and we are people of the real world, so an example is really important , that today within the crimean platform there is at least this separate security mechanism, which is carried out, let's say, more by the military than by diplomats, despite this, despite this, in terms of ways and strategy, we have to work out our agenda, so today we with our colleagues, with several... we conducted just such a security meeting the conference is already in kyiv, and it is very simple: look, today we already have nine agreements on the security and support of ukraine, which we signed this year, great britain, germany, france and so on, the czech republic is preparing there and we will be grateful any country

of the civilized world that signs this agreement with us, an agreement with the united states is being prepared, and in these separate agreements, there is such a position, assistance to ukraine in the preparation of plans and strategies for reintegration to. purchased territories, on the one hand it is very good that our partners say that it is true it is necessary to integrate it, right, on the other hand it is such a bell, because it means that our partners understand that we are not all right with these plans, that we need help, and this is, sorry, a certain diagnosis, if it is even spelled out in the agreements , then what we see today, but these agreements, they have recommendations, my god, no, this is a contract, this is an excuse for the government and majesty, we have seen a lot of it. spoke, which, unfortunately, over time did not have their effectiveness in terms of security, for example, the budapest memorandum, the budapest memorandum, it is a piece of paper, and those who signed it should actually be responsible for the fact that it was signed in that form, these agreements, it is not a piece of paper, uh, these are more very serious things, so that you understand, in the agreement with great britain has

the obligation of ukraine to help great britain in the event of an attack on great britain, this can be taken skeptically, but once a long time ago great britain... made a similar agreement with portugal, it was in the 14th century, this is how they still implement it, so you understand , how civilized countries are treated in this world to the kind of, as you say, pieces of paper, these are not pieces of paper. it's very important, and an example today is, you know, with all due respect to all countries, to have these agreements, this is the agreement with the united states, which today, says mr. yarmak of the times magazine, we have to believe him, is getting ready to sign , but at the same time , in the same congress of the united states , they have to vote for aid to ukraine, and what they say is that aid to ukraine, most likely it will be voted on, will be tied to some kind of commitment to the white house. beat ukraine's aid strategy, that is there must be a certain plan, and most likely this

will be announced, and if we have a certain plan, there should be something, a strategy for the reintegration of de-occupation, right, and here ukraine must put something on the table, and when we held the second strategic forum, the future of crimea with mr. bariyev, and we gathered a lot of experts, very different people, but then, when we presented it in ukrinform, one respectable person, it was not me who said it, but a former adviser to one of the prime ministers, he is currently a doctor of sciences, and in we broke out of it, you know that we are this plan researched, we wrote there on 40 sheets of our comments, sent it to the relevant ministries from, we didn't even publish it, because we can't publish it, sorry under the conditions of the war, but he said: "it's very good that this document is written like that , that it is simply impossible to translate it into english, there is such a ukrainian bureaucratic language, such constructions, they simply do not translate, and this, as they say, tragically went astray, it is good, because if it was translated."

we do not have the right to submit our own partners, excuse me, with all due respect, some strategies about cognitive milioration, because our partners read these strategies, they decide to give us the funds for this, which we vitally need in terms of war or not. we all have to understand that such things cannot be treated, sorry, as things for collecting likes, as things for internal, sorry, use, this is currently a vital issue of the ukrainian state, quality plans for reintegration, this is exactly what we talked about in sofia, my colleagues, what about the strategy for ensuring the security of the black sea region water area, we have already agreed or not within the framework of this conference, there were a lot of topics of various achievements, well, russia is an example of this year. the aggressor states were excluded from the danube commission, ugh, this is a very even path, in fact, from many dimensions, starting

with the fact that today the danube is a vital trade artery for us, and i will not even discuss the military component, but the international component is clear, because russia is there sat as the legal successor of the ssr, not a danubian state, they said: but we are temporarily not a danubian state the state, you understand what they said there, but a huge amount of work was done and our association for the integration of crimea and others proved that there were violations and... they were expelled, this is important, this is the second organization that i know, the first was the council of europe, from which russia was excluded for violating international law, and we have to work further, we have a situation with turkey, turkey is a key player in the black sea region, turkey is vital for us and for supporting the further resistance of the crimean people against aggression and supporting our efforts to occupy crimea , we have to work with this country, we have to prove that we have a common position regarding security in the region, regarding various dimensions. security, well, for example, you know, maybe there is such a thing as the syrian express, so when

the aggressor transports cargo to syria, it is stolen grain, and military equipment, and something in syria to the ports of the black sea, maybe you know, among other things , so that syria is not just a regime that destroys its own population, on which they build their budget, the so-called, you know, they have little left there, well, drug trade, syria has become a supplier of drugs for the whole arab world, for... the eastern world, right? and this is transported, in particular, to the occupied crimea, excuse me, by bulk carriers, sea vessels, and this is already, excuse me, a dimension, even one that goes beyond the traditional dimensions of security, and by the way, these nine agreements, he just mentioned it, they put risks there that come from our occupied territories, we generally hardly even discuss individual risks, an example is organized crime, which uses the occupied territory, so accordingly gray zone, and this is precisely what worries many countries, and we have to share this concern with them and

give them, then they say tips on how to help us with this, because as an example, the same occupation administrations, so-called in occupied crimea, and in melitopol, yevgenichesk , they are connected with the mafia, right, not just, of course, the russians rely on criminals, you know, not just on collaborators or on criminals against the state, well, this is a general criminal crime, for example , human trafficking, for example, pedophiles. sorry on an industrial scale so you understand the situation regarding crimea, and we have to put this issue on the table of our partners with evidence and proof, and not just talk about cognitive skills out of respect. impact on the population of the occupied territory, and meanwhile on the territory of the occupied peninsula, we see how russia initiates, continues to initiate criminal cases against representatives of, for example, crimean solidarity, and this week we saw that russia opened the next criminal case administrative proceedings against lutwie, khanumzodieva and

other crimean tatars, and also this week there was news that russia is planning to call in crimea. another 15,000 people, this is how you evaluate this latest news and are there any recommendations for ukrainian citizens living in the territory of the temporarily occupied territory, how to escape from the ranks of the russian army of the russian federation, you know, this is an old problem here, and on she always has answers that contradicted, why, because we have slogans and there is life, well, certain slogans, so not as an example, so what. in captivity, and she says no, with the example of a general question, how to be a crimean tatar in this situation, there are two options, to wait and to leave, someone from respected people says wait, the question is what can be waited for, you understand, my advice to everyone who is in the risk zone to leave the occupied territories, you can return, it is tragic , this is a very tragic story, leaving the historical

homeland, i understand that, but it is better to return alive, to return one's own family, than to become a che... i am a victim of the occupiers, this choice, it must be, and today we see that directly, let's say , this may rather than that's all, well, maybe there won't be a ukrainian flag over bakhchesarai, and in these situations it's impossible to say that everything will be fine tomorrow already tomorrow, you know that, it's a certain, as they say, responsibility to say that, and that's why i would advise you to always assess the situation the next way, if you are in the risk zone, and the risk zone is very wide, in fact, it is any conscripted crimean tatar youth, it is any person. who has done anything socially active in her life, she is a person of faith, yes, because we see how they painfully treat any- any really a person of faith, this applies not only to the crimean tatars, they persecute several religious groups, for them any unification is not simple, as they say from above, but any unification from below based on the separation of certain spiritual values, for them it is danger, uh, and that's why such a person, to be there

on the peninsula, it's a risk zone, and i've always said that, the number of political prisoners in crimea is determined only by ... the occupation system, how much they can digest, and sorry, it's easy to fight them help or there help to families or increasing this attention to international platforms, all this should be done, but this will not solve the problem, it is emptying the sea with a spoon, tomorrow we will release 20 people, exchange them, there will be some mechanism, they will put 100 new ones in the day after tomorrow, well, because the whole people are simply hostages, yes the whole people , and in order for the people not to be held hostage, to reduce the number of hostages is sad, but it is the truth with which we have a way out. well , that is, if i understand correctly, that, well, now we see that there are negotiations between ukraine and turkey regarding the release of crimean tatar prisoners, but we saw meanwhile, the news that russia does not really want to release the crimean tatars, specifically the crimean tatars, there are still agreements regarding prisoners of war, but if we are talking about political prisoners, russia simply does not want to,

why do you think? well, look, the question is that there is... the question of the exchange of prisoners of war, often the aggressor is interested, as they say, in exchanges in order to get certain categories of their prisoners of war, this is not a secret, and that's why they go for it in general , yes, regarding civilian hostages, they have a standard position, it is very difficult, they are very reluctant to they go, of course, it is always possible to offer such, as they say, customers that they cannot refuse, but here there are certain questions, and do we have these customers. so here is a question for our law enforcement officers, we have a huge number of bodies regarding crimea, we see a lot of certain decisions in absentia, this is correct, let something be done in 10 years, but let's say frankly, if we had more arrests of those collaborators who on the mainland, believe me, they are there, here you should have not only a certain legal knowledge, but a certain political one

will, as an example of those still the owners of real beneficiaries of businesses in the crimea, yes. if we had such a few business beneficiaries, well, we model them, but they are behind bars, like medvedchuk, would mr. putin or his crimean henchmen agree to an exchange? this is a lot of money, these are the beneficiaries, they know a lot, believe me, they would exchange all the crimean tatar hostages, but political will is necessary for this. what about the role of turkey? turkey is an intermediary that has its own interest. turkey has many interests of its own, which should be treated with respect. it a sovereign independent state, it has democracy as the basis of governance, there are democratic competitive processes, and a lot of interests in turkey depend on geostrategic interest. the political interest of the competition of political forces, we see the results of the local elections, they are, let's say, special, for some painful, for someone joyful, but then there will be the next election, and in

this, and it affects the politics of turkey, and the third situation with all due respect to turkey - this is an economic crisis, well, there is an economic crisis, and today they have, well, they want directly, let's say, to have economic profits from all sides, we have all our lives. that's why we have to perceive such mediation taking into account these three, as they say, factors, and these three factors are objective and it's not that we can't criticize turkey, it's their life, of course, it's interesting that in the occupied, in the occupied crimea, the russian the authorities began to detain not only crimean tatars, not only ukrainians, yesterday there was news that they detained russian neo-nazis who seemed to organize their activities with imperial flags, oh... such interesting people are all wearing tattoos with various elements similar to the swastika, what are they, after all, they are connected to the special services of ukraine, they wrote propaganda and at the same time

they seem to be connected to ukraine, that is, for them there is no some kind of even formal principle, that if you are a russian nationalist, you are safe, if you are disloyal to putin, they will come to you anyway, that has always been the case. what was the specificity until the 22nd year? look, i've said this many times, this is a mantra in some diplomatic way, right? this is too big it's a pity, a politician with whom someone tried to fight, then had problems because of it, so someone simply turned a blind eye to it, when we talk a lot about political prisoners, about crimea and allow the most powerful ukrainian beneficiaries to have business there, we do not punish collaborators, a person who just lives in the crimea, as they say, which, excuse me, has some life experience there. she sees it all, she perceives it critically, correctly, and she understands that the situation until the 22nd year, which , unfortunately, the situation in this gray zone that was there, is for a long time, man

adjusts her life, the life of her children, she mostly does not perceive the occupiers as a just and legitimate authority, and that is normal, but she understands that this is for a long time, and that is why a lot of people, both crimean tatars and non- crimean tatars, here just this general a challenge, until the 22nd year, as they say , they did not... show their public position, because it was them, as i say, you know, like soviet times, people always kept this muzzle, as they say, in their pockets, and then in 1991, everything changed, although it seems that everyone voted anyway they say for lenin, stalin and there are these other, as they say, stops, the question is different, what has changed, after the 22nd year, two things have changed, the first thing, even three, the first thing, everyone understood that this is gray, this is a gray area , it is not endless, as they say, it will end, a great war cannot go on for centuries, e. it is now the 19th century, the great war will end in a few years with the defeat of russia in one form or another, this will necessarily lead to a change in the situation in crimea, how is this the second question, but

there will definitely be a change, and absolutely everyone understands this, from crimean gauleiters to the last, as the crimean bums say, what will change is the first, the second, the second, the second is important - this is the maximum total persecution of the ukrainian, that is, for the very fact that you are not just a citizen of ukraine, that you are an ethnic ukrainian , or you just... you know, they sing a ukrainian song, they began to persecute for that, and the third, these are crimes, or war crimes committed on the controlled territory, murder, fratricide, directly, let's put it this way, those terrible things that the russian federation did and posipaki, these are three factors, they affect the consciousness of any crimean, people simply cannot remain silent physically, they are on a normal person, it is no longer able to restrain themselves, that is why it is a wave, and that is why these phenomena have become thousands, they look at about a thousand in two years. mr. boris, thank you, this is a signal that crimeans are already waiting for the liberation of crimea and understand that this whole system is collapsing. boris babin was on

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