for the world, trump's second presidency will be a terrible project for those who care and think politclub every sunday at 20:10 on espresso. we continue the berber program, this is a joint project of the tv channel and the first crimean tatar tv channel of the apr, in the studio of gultsum khalilova, my colleague, i'm andriy. and today's second guest is boris babin, ex-representative of the president of ukraine in the autonomous republic of crimea. mr. boris, congratulations. so, the black sea security conference of the international crimean platform was held in bulgaria, your colleague i was there, and i know that you know the details of what was discussed there, what is the significance of this conference for the future liberation of crimea, tell us in more detail. and why , in your opinion, bulgaria? this conference...

is already the second, it is the black sea security conference, that is why it is held in the black sea countries, last year it was romania, and it was the first conference, the responsible bodies on the ukrainian side are primarily the ministry of defense and the ministry of foreign affairs, so it is certain the specificity of this conference, it is expert in a certain dimension, that is, the first day experts gathered, on the second day diplomats, representatives of the states participating in the crimean platform, what can we say here, first of all, it is good that this is about... by the way, it is good that we are learning to be consistent, because this is an annual conference, it should take place and provide corresponding extension, my colleague, olesya tsibulka, also from the crimean reintegration association , had the opportunity to report at this conference, what can be said about its significance, first of all, it is necessary to strengthen the institutional capacity of the crimean platform, especially in the expert dimension, and therefore, my colleague and i, let's say, remotely, we just presented the improvements that were made. the previous ones, which

are conducted by the resource center, at the future of crimea strategic forums, we held three in the last two years, just the last forum, which was in march, it was dedicated to increasing the institutionalization of the crimean platform, first of all, the expert network, because if we we have an expert network, it should work, so experts should give what they are called experts, not because i came to the tv studio in a tie, yes, but because i have to give certain... an intellectual product, a certain significant, as they say, cost price, which is then put on the table, put on the table by the participating states, international organizations, in order for a person to write something, it is necessary that the first, and someone paid something for it, secondly, for it to bear responsibility and have a certain status, but we have already had the crimean platform for three years, and we do not see the answers to these questions for a while, and that is why the relevant internal regulatory documents have just been worked out, you know that purely slowly work, it is primarily, at first glance , bureaucratic, we do not like bureaucracy, we like slogans, so that people... a person

spoke from a beautiful high platform, said something, then she left this platform and what happened next, so what's next, we've been working, the appropriate modifications will be provided to the crimean platform itself and the expert network, the ball is in their court, they will, let them approve or not, let them continue to exist as they exist, i have i mean the expert dimension, and with regard to the international dimension, it is also important, we have to prepare certain interstate agreements, no less, regarding the office of the crimean platform, it is not institutionalized, it should be fixed, not only on... declarations, it is good that they are approved, but on the level of certain agreements, so that this system grows into what we call the mechanism, what we call certain structural movements, and for it to be just a network that unites states, that unites in constant interaction, it must be an international staff, it must be relevant offices and so on, full an international supranational structure, then it will work as far as i am concerned i understand, the very idea of ​​the crimean platform was born when there was an idea to return the crimea.

in the main way even before the full-scale military invasion of russia, and then it seemed that the topic of crimea was fading in the international information space, that is why we came up with such a format as the crimean platform, let's draw the world's attention to the crimean issue and somehow spread it, increase it, now already in the dimension of a full-scale invasion, when there is a hot war, and when something actually explodes on the territory of crimea every day, and... we see that crimea will still be liberated after all, by the force of ukrainian weapons, no sooner than by diplomatic efforts. what is the role of the crimean platform? she is preparing the adaptation, reintegration of crimea, or, well, look, first of all, the fact that it was created is actually very good, because maidanchyk should discuss our word crimea, yes, it is very convenient, you know, to talk about coffee in yalta, there or boreky or saraya, it gives a lot of insults, but there are other dimensions, there is a dimension of real integration before the occupation, there is a dimension of violation of international law, crimea became a precedent and... a negative

precedent of an attempt at annexation, that is exactly why this mechanism of the crimean platform, it was a very successful step. so, if we recall the history of the crimean platform, it was created even before the full-scale invasion, as a tool. such diplomatic influence the world, on other countries in order to raise and make the issue of crimea more visible, and then it seemed that this was the right way, because there were no other tools, but today we see that during the already heated phase of the war, in something explodes in crimea every day, and we understand that crimea will be liberated by the force of ukrainian weapons, here, diplomatic efforts are already taking second place. what is the role of the crimean platform now, what does it do, preparing crimea for the future. reintegration or measuring the current situation in crimea , what is its role? look, well , first of all, really, when it was created, it was a platform for increasing attention to crimea, but not only in terms of, you know, such purely pr, it is very convenient to say there tomorrow coffee in yalta, the day after tomorrow there is a concert in yalta, there are

chibureks in bakhchisarai, it adds likes, yes, it is normal for politicians, but there is another dimension, there is a dimension of real work, yes, and so this step was really timely then. because it was nothing diplomatic, as they say in table talks, i.e. conversations, it was precisely putting crimea on the agenda as a precedent, a negative precedent, an attempt at annexation, an encroachment on the entire world legal order, according to the rules of the game that recognize civilized nations, and that is why it, as they say, shot, and our enemies took it very painfully, because they knew what it could lead to, that before how to liberate crimea, hey, you know, this is a mantra about diplomatic ways, i can ... say, whoever wants to, let him check that i always said a very simple thing: it is impossible to return something that was taken by military means, not by military means, even if we carry out a return without, let's imagine, let's imagine, without active

hostilities, it should still be a military operation, because the russians occupied crimea in february 13, with little blood, yes, but exactly a military operation, and other ways. as they say, control over the territory during armed conflict does not exist, so all these mantras are mantras, yes, and we are people of the real world, so as an example , it is really important that today within the crimean platform there is at least this separate security mechanism, which is carried out, let's say, more by the military than by diplomats, despite this, despite this, in terms of ways and strategy, we have to work out our agenda, but just today we and our colleagues from several ministries held just such a security conference already in kyiv and... it's very simple: look, we already have nine agreements today about safety and support for ukraine, which we signed this year: great britain, germany, france and so on, the czech republic is being prepared there, and we will be grateful to any country of the civilized world that signs this agreement with us, agreements are being prepared with the united states, as well as in these agreements

some of them have the following position: assistance to ukraine in preparing plans and strategies for reintegration into the occupied territories. on the one hand, it is very good that what our partners say is true. it's very integrating, right? on the other hand, it is such a bell because it means that our partners understand that we are not all right with these plans, that we need help, and this, i'm sorry, is a certain diagnosis, if it is even spelled out in the agreements, then what we see today, but these departures, they do they have a recommendation, my god, no, this is a contract, this is, excuse me, the state and majesty or, well, we have seen many contracts, which, unfortunately, did not have their effectiveness over time. these agreements are not a piece of paper, ugh, these are more serious things, so that you understand, in the agreement with great britain there is an obligation of ukraine to help great britain in the event of an attack on

great britain, this can be taken with skepticism, but once a long time ago, great britain made a similar agreement with portugal, it was in the 14th. centuries, this is how they still perform it, so that you understand how in this world, from civilized countries, they treat this kind of, as you say, pieces of paper, these are not pieces of paper, it is very important, and today an example is such, you know, with all due respect to all countries, to have these agreements, it is an agreement with the united states that today, says mr. yarmak of the times magazine, we we have to believe him that it is being prepared for signing, but at the same time in the same congress of the united states they have to vote for aid to ukraine, and what... they say that aid to ukraine, most likely, it will be voted on, yes, it will be tied with some kind of obligation to the white house to develop a strategy for helping ukraine, that is, there must be a certain plan, and most likely this will be announced, and if we have a certain plan, there should be something,

a strategy for the reintegration of de-occupation, that's right, and here ukraine has something set the table, and when we held the second strategic forum on the future of crimea with mr. bariyev, and we gathered a lot of experts, very different people. but then, when we presented it in ukrinform, one respectable person, it was not me who said it, but a former adviser to one of the prime ministers, currently he is a doctor of science, a professor, and it dawned on him, you know, that we have investigated this plan, we no... they wrote our comments on 40 sheets, sent it to the relevant ministries, we didn’t even publish it, because we can’t publish it like that, sorry, under the conditions of war, but he said, it is very good that this document is written in such a way that it is simply impossible to translate it into english, there is such a ukrainian bureaucratic language, such constructions, they simply cannot be translated, and this, as they say, no matter how tragicomic it would sound, it is good, because if it is translated and put on the table of our partners, it would be sabotage, you know? because if they read it, and they should not provide aid under these documents, and not only funds, sorry, because this is a military component, and

a financial component, it is not important for the aid that ukraine vitally needs, we are not we have the right to file for divorce against our partners, excuse me with all due respect for any strategies about cognitive mitigation, because these strategies are read by our partners, and they decide to give us the funds that we need vitally under the conditions of war or not to give them, we all have to understand this , that such things cannot be treated, sorry, for things to collect likes, as for things for internal, sorry, use, this is currently a vital issue of the ukrainian state, quality plans for reintegration, we just talked about this in sofia, well, my colleagues , well, the strategy for ensuring the security of the black sea water area, we have already agreed on it within the framework of this conference or not, there were a lot of different topics and there are achievements, well, for example , this year, russia, the aggressor state, was excluded from the danube commission, well, this is very controversial. the way is actually from many dimensions, starting with the fact that today the danube is a vital artery of trade, and the military

component, i will not even discuss, but the international component is clear, because russia sat there as the legal successor of the ssr, not the danube state, she said: but it's us the temporary state of donais, you understand what they said there, but a huge amount of work was done and our association for the integration of crimea and others proved that there were violations and it was excluded, this is important, this is the second organization that i know, the first was the council of europe, with which ... russia was specifically excluded for violating international law. and we have to work further. we have a situation with turkey. turkey is a key player in the black sea region. turkey is vital for us and for further support of the kremstar people's resistance against aggression and supporting our efforts to occupy crimea. we have to work with this country. we have to prove that we have a common position on security in the region on various dimensions of its security. well, as an example, you know, maybe there is such a thing as the syrian express. yes, when the aggressor transports cargo to syria, it is stolen grain, and military equipment, and something in

syria, to the ports of the black sea, perhaps you know, among other things, that syria is not just a regime that destroys its own population, what do they build their budget on, the so-called, you know, they don't have much there what is left of the drug trade, syria has become a supplier of drugs to the entire arab world, to a large part, well, in general, i will limit it, carefully, to the eastern world, yes. and it is transported, in particular, to the occupied crimea, excuse me, by bulk carriers, sea vessels, and this is already, excuse me, a dimension that goes beyond the traditional dimensions of security, and by the way, these nine agreements, he just mentioned it, they there they pose risks that come from our occupied territories, we generally hardly even discuss individual risks, for example organized crime, which uses the occupied territory as a corresponding gray area, and this is just very disturbing. many countries, and we have to share this concern with them and provide them, then they give hints on how

to help us with this, because for example, the same occupation administrations, so-called, and in the occupied crimea, and in melitopol, and in genichisk, they are merged with the mafia, that's right, not just, of course, the russians rely on criminals, you know, not just on collaborators or on criminals against the state, this is general criminality, for example human trafficking, yes pedophilia, sorry on an industrial scale so you understand the situation. regarding crimea, and this issue we must put on the table of our partners with evidence and proof, and not just excuse our respect to talk about the cognitive impact on the population of the occupied territory, and meanwhile , on the territory of the occupied peninsula , we see how russia initiates, continues to initiate criminal cases regarding representatives of, for example, crimean solidarity, and this week we saw that russia opened the following criminal case, administrative proceedings against lutvie. mzodieva and other crimean tatars, and also this week there was news that

russia is planning to call up 15,000 more people to its army in crimea. this is how you assess this latest news and are there any recommendations for citizens of ukraine living in the territory of the temporarily occupied territory, how to escape from the ranks of the russian army of the russian federation? you know, here this problem is old, and it is always there. there are answers that are contradictory, why? because we have slogans and we have life, well certain slogans, so not by example, so go into captivity, so they say, by example, the general question is how to be crimean? a tatar in this situation, there are two options: wait and leave, someone says from respected people, wait, the question is what can wait, you understand, my advice to everyone who is in the risk zone to leave the occupied territories, you can return, it is tragic , this is a very tragic story, leaving the historical homeland, i understand it, but it is better to return alive, to return one's own

family, than to become another victim occupiers, this choice, it must be, and today we see that... to be blunt, this may most likely, well, there may not be a ukrainian flag over bakhchisaray, and in these situations it is impossible to say that tomorrow is tomorrow it won’t be good, you know that, it ’s a certain, as they say, the responsibility is to say so, and therefore i would advise you to always assess the situation in the following way, if you are in the risk zone, and the risk zone is very wide, in fact it is any conscripted youth crimean tatar, this is any person who has done anything socially active in their own way life this is a person of faith, yes, because we see how they painfully treat any truly religious person, this applies not only to the crimean tatars, they persecute several religious groups, for them any association is not just as they say from above, and any unification from below based on the separation of certain spiritual values ​​is a danger for them, ugh, and that is why such a person, being there on the peninsula is a risk zone, and i always said that, the number

of flights only the occupation system determines how much they will be able to digest, and... to fight them simply with help or help to families or by increasing this attention to international platforms, all this should be done, but it will not solve the problem, it is emptying the sea with a spoon, we will release 20 people tomorrow, we will exchange them, there will be some mechanism, the day after tomorrow 100 new ones will be imprisoned, well, because the entire nation is simply being held hostage, yes, the entire nation, and in order for the nation not to be held hostage, the number of hostages should be reduced, this is sad, but it is the truth from which we must proceed, well, that is, is it correct i understand that ah... well, now we see that there are negotiations between ukraine and turkey regarding the release of crimean tatar prisoners, but we saw the news that russia does not really want to release the crimean tatars, specifically the crimean tatars. there are still agreements regarding prisoners of war, but if we are talking about political prisoners, russia simply does not want, why do you think? well, look, the problem is

that there is a question of exchanging prisoners of war, often the aggressor is interested. as they say, in exchanges to get certain categories of their own prisoners of war, this is not a secret, so they go for it in general, yes, regarding civilian hostages, they have a standard position, it is very difficult, they are very reluctant to go for it, of course, you can always offer such, as they say, clients , which they cannot refuse, but there are certain questions here, and whether we have these clients, that's a question for our law enforcement officers, we have a huge pile. bodies regarding crimea, we see a lot of certain decisions in absentia, this is correct, let something be done in 10 years, but let's say it bluntly, if we points more arrests of those collaborators who are on the mainland, believe me, they are there, here you should have not only certain legal knowledge, a certain political will, for example, in relation to those still

owners of the real beneficiaries of businesses in the crimea, so if we have such a few beneficiaries of businesses, well, the model . they are behind bars, like medvedchuk, would mr. putin or his crimean henchmen agree to an exchange, this is big money, these are the beneficiaries, they know a lot, believe me, they would exchange all the crimean tatar hostages, but for this political will is needed, and about the role turkey? turkey is an intermediary that has its own interest, turkey has a lot of its interests, they should be treated with respect, it is a sovereign independent state, it has democracy, governance, there are democratic, competitive processes, and a lot of interests depend on turkey's geostrategic interests, the political interest of the competition of political forces, we see the results of local elections, they are, let's say, special, painful for someone, joyful for someone, but the next election will follow, and in this, it affects the politics of turkey, and

the third situation, with all due respect to turkey , is an economic crisis, uh, there is an economic crisis and they... today they have, well, they want, directly, let's say, to have economic profits from all sides, this is life, we have to take it into account, that's why we have to perceive mediation taking into account these three, as they say, factors, and these three factors are objective, and this is not it, no, we cannot criticize for the turkish language, it is their life, of course, it is interesting that in the occupied, in the occupied crimea russian authorities began detaining not only crimean tatars, no only ukrainians, yesterday there was news: that they detained russian neo-nazis, who seemed to organize their activities with imperial flags, such interesting people, all wearing tattoos with different similar elements. swastika, what are they, they are connected to the special services of ukraine, the propagandists wrote, and at the same time, they seem to be connected to ukraine,

eh, that is, there is no even a formal principle for them, what if you are russian nationalist, then you are safe, if you are disloyal to putin, it doesn't matter to you they will come, that was all the time, what would be the specifics until the 22nd year, look, i said this many times, here is a mantra about some diplomatic ways, yes , unfortunately, a politician with whom someone tried to fight, then had to these are problems, so someone just turned a blind eye to it, when we talk a lot about political prisoners, about crimea and allow the most powerful ukrainian beneficiaries to have business there, we do not punish collaborators, a person who just lives in crimea, as they say, who sorry, there has some life experience, she sees it all, she perceives it critically, correctly, and she understands the situation until the 22nd year that , unfortunately, the situation of this gray zone that was there is for a long time, a person adjusts his life, the life of his children, he mostly does not

accept the occupiers like a fair and legitimate government, and that's normal, but she understands that it's for a long time, and that's why a lot of people, both crimean tatars and non-crimean tatars, here is just this general challenge, they until the 22nd year, as they say, did not show their public position, because they are, as it were... you know, like the soviet era, people always kept this gun in their pocket, as they say, and then in 1991, everything changed, although it seems that everyone voted, as they say, for zelenina, stalin and others, as they say stops, the question is different, why, what changed, after the 22nd year, two things changed, the first thing, yes, three, the first thing, everyone understood that this is gray, this gray zone, it is not endless, like that they say it will end, a great war cannot go on for centuries, it is now the 12th century, a great war will end in defeat in a few years of russia in one form or another, it will definitely lead to a change in the situation in crimea, as is the second question, but there will definitely be a change, and absolutely everyone understands this, from the crimean gauleiter to the last, as they

say, the crimean bum, what will change is first, second, second - second, this is important, this is the maximum total persecution of a ukrainian, that is, for the very fact that you are not just a citizen of ukraine there, or you are an ethnic ukrainian, or you just know, you sing a ukrainian song, for that they began to persecute, and the third, are these crimes or war crimes crimes committed in the controlled territory, murders, fratricide, frankly, let's put it this way, the terrible things that the russian federation did to its oppressors, these three factors, they affect the consciousness of any crimean, people simply cannot remain silent physically, they are in a normal person , she can no longer restrain herself, that's why it's a wave, and that's why these phenomena have become thousands, they see in two years about a thousand people will be punished, thank you very much, this is a signal to you that... crimeans are already waiting for the liberation of crimea and understand that all this whole system is collapsing. boris babin was on our air, ex-representative of the president

of ukraine in the autonomous republic of crimea, as well as gulsum kha khalilova. those who were with us, see you koroshkendzi. the espresso channel and ukrainian pen present the self -titled project with myroslava barchuk. a series of conversations with ukrainian and western intellectuals who analyze and comment on the most relevant social debates. we will find out exactly what news will be analyzed by the guests of the project this week and actually who will be the guest of the studio already this sunday. undoubtedly, the topics will be relevant, the guests - special. proper names with myroslava barchuk. sunday, 17:10 at espresso. today i will start the program with

the shocking story of six-year-old sofiyka golynska. the girl lived with her mother in odesa in the city of balta. and imagine, it disappeared at the end of 2020. the police say that the child was kidnapped by her grandmother, lyudmila holinska. and the woman has been missing for more than three years. where hides the child. it was established that in december 2020, in the territory of the baltsky district of the odesa region, a woman kidnapped her three-year-old granddaughter sofya golinska. but until now , their exact location is unknown. lyudmila mykhaylivna golynska was born on 01.04.1968, height is about 162-170 cm, dense build. shaking, hair color can change. he has light eyes. visible birthmarks in the area of ​​the nasolabial fold. previously, there was a version that already during a full-scale war , the child could be taken abroad to one of the countries

of the european union. but recently in the police. told that the alleged abductor of the girl, her grandmother, may currently be in kyiv. of course, if follow her trail, there is a high probability of establishing the whereabouts of the child, but sofia's grandmother carefully disguises herself and constantly changes her appearance, however, i really hope that one of you will recognize her and help establish her location, and most importantly, in this way, it will be possible to find six-year-old sofia golin. i appeal to everyone, and especially to kiyan. if anyone has seen this woman or knows where she may be, please call us immediately on the children's hotline on the short number 11630. calls from all mobile operators free of charge as for six-year-old sofiyka, it is now very difficult to describe her appearance. imagine, the girl's mother last saw her little one when sofia was only 3.5 years old.

pir, i don't know about my fate, the fate of my child , what condition she is in, what she looks like, she was then 20 meters tall, she had blue eyes, she was wearing a crop top for the last time, a blue saucer, a little blue coat, with two tails, this was in the 20th year. of course, over three years, sofiyka has grown up and changed. but i don't think that it is so drastic that it is impossible to recognize it, that's why please take a close look at her face. the girl has big blue eyes and light blond hair, the approximate height is 110-120 cm. in these photos, she is about 3 years old, but this is one of the last pictures, where sofia is about 3, of course, the girl's mother also has a video of her

daughter. mother! well, you're an adult girl already, hey, not for that, but for that, not for that, but for that. let me remind you that now the girl is almost seven years old, of course, she already speaks normally and expresses her thoughts. i really hope that someone... will definitely recognize her and help me find her, even a little piece of information about sofiyka golynska will comfort and reassure her mother. at the moment, i don't know what she looks like, and in what condition she is, i'm asking people who care, if you see someone around her age, who looks like her, please call me, i really wanted you, parents, thank you, we are with you , not the only hope for

the lady... but the fate of this child depends on you and me, so it is very important to remember sofiyka's face if you find a child who looks like her somewhere, or if you see her grandmother, who is suspected of abducting a child , do not delay and immediately dial the short number of the magnolia child tracing service 11630, calls from any mobile operator are free, you can call the hotline at any time of the day. in addition, important information can always be transmitted using the chatbot of the child tracing service in telegram. we have created a resource thanks to which you can report any crime against a child. in any city, at any time. just go to the site and report, and we will launch all possible punishment mechanisms a criminal stopcraim.ua.

tes news on the spresso tv channel, working in the studio. kateryna shirokopoyas it happened, the us approved aid to ukraine, the decision was voted in the house of representatives of the congress. 311 congressmen supported the bill, 112 voted against it. now this decision will be considered in the senate on april 23, after which the bill must be signed by us president joe biden. i will remind you that the total amount of assistance is about 61 billion dollars. a third of these funds.

will be left in the usa to replenish the american ones.