disaster was under the auspices of the ukrainian institute of national remembrance , these archives were published, one of the books was published, which contained a lot of information, which i read even in 2019, please tell me why until now , until 2004, and then during yanukovych's time, they essentially tried to hide information about the chernobyl disaster, because here... for example, khoroshkovsky, the head of the security service of ukraine at the time under yanukovych, essentially removed it from the service's website, and under yushchenko we we remember that for the first time the archives were opened, for the first time people got access, scientists got access, why even yanukovych's government tried to hide this information, i think that they hid not so much information about chernobyl, about the consequences of chernobyl, the consequences of the disaster, because... well, it was already more - less is known,

in particular about some foreign publications, they hid the documents of the kgb, because they were documents that contained information about hiding information, about methods of hiding information, that is, it was more important for them, and methods of discrediting some people who provide information, methods of trying to invent some fake news, as she brought. abroad, journalists, at first journalists from communist publications there from western europe, who wrote that nothing bad actually happened, everything was fine, then even journalists from western publications who were sponsored by some nuclear plants in the west, who wanted there to be less panic, and let's after all, we will say that nothing terrible happened, that the panic was exaggerated, let's extinguish this lady, it seems to me that it is precisely in the times of already independent ukraine. especially during yanukovych's time, they were more

embarrassed by this, more embarrassed that ukrainians did not see, did not understand these methods, these techniques, because the representatives of this government very actively wanted to use these methods and techniques, i remember very well how when in 2008, the archivist of the security service of ukraine, how much resistance there was still within the system of the security service of ukraine, the essence of this resistance was that we did not we can... expose the methods of operation of the communist special services, because they can be useful, can be used everyday, we were simply shocked at that time, because as a historian i knew very well what the methods of operation of the communist special services were, and it is obvious that talking about that , something similar can and should be used in independent ukraine, it is an automatic recognition that ukraine is definitely far from a democratic state and is not going to move towards some european and democratic state, so there is actually one.

from the first steps of the new government in 2010 on led by yanukovych, the new head of the security service, khoroshkovsky, and there was an attempt to bottle this genie again , to close these archives again, literally the first press conference of valery khoroshkovsky, at which the thesis was sounded that all the truth that had to be discovered, we have already opened enough on this, and then the systematic work began not just to stop the further opening of the archive, but... to close it again, a special commission was created, which reclassified documents, including documents that related to chernobyl disaster, that is why i am very glad that after the victory of the revolution of dignity we still managed to complete this work, we prepared as the ukrainian essence of national memory, a whole package of laws on decommunization, one of them concerned the opening of the kgb archives, they were adopted in 2015, the actual book you are talking about is the book chornobyl dossier, a two-volume kgb document that was published with

the cooperation of the archives of the security service of ukraine and the ukrainian institute of national memory, these are wonderful documents from which, for me, personally, the most interesting documents are precisely those documents that tell about what happened before the accident, what happened during the accident, and what happened after the accident, that is, how the communist special services purposefully tried to restrain the spread of information and, on the contrary, launch some fakes that it's okay. it happened very often, by the way, the methods that mr. volodymyr talks about, the actual concealment of information , are paralleled with similar methods during the three famines, by the soviet regime, for example, in one of the articles, one, more precisely, of your articles about chernobyl, first the information is called radiation, then, yes, you actually...

analyzed in detail the extent to which this information blockade took place, that is, to what extent in each city, in each in the village, in every street, on every street... kgb agents were actually operating, collecting information and trying to ensure that it spread among society, and by the way, this happened not only, relatively speaking, after a month, after two or three years after the chernobyl disaster, this happened systematically during the following years, until the collapse of the soviet union. first of all, is it correct that we are talking about parallels with the holodomors, absolutely, absolutely. after all, if we say so, did the soviet union use, for example, foreign journalists or foreign specialists in order to hide this information about

the consequences of the chernobyl disaster, the methodologies are actually completely similar, that is, the essence of them came down to two goals, one - this restrain the spread of true information, the second is to direct information in the right direction for the regime, i.e. to fill it with all kinds of fakes and disinformation, the only difference is that when we talk about the holodomor, it happened in an absolutely totalitarian state, which had just been formed, which was completely was controlled, all manifestations of citizens' lives were controlled by the authorities, then, when we talk about chernobyl, it is still very late soviet. the union is covered with cracks, covered with some initiatives even from the very top by mikhail gorbachev about democratization, publicity and so on, so these technologies, which worked, worked effectively in containing the truth about the holodomor, in the widespread lies about the holodomor,

in the issue of the chernobyl accident, they were also used, but they simply did not work effectively, there were cases when journalists were transported specifically for the purpose of... to show that in fact there is no threat, that is, that people can return, that it will be possible to live here, but again, it is still already the period of 1986, the period when the soviet power was weaker, and the opportunities for obtaining some information in ukraine, even from the west, the same radio, the same so-called enemy voices, radio liberty or. .. the voice of america was much bigger, this was not the case in the 1930s, and in the end, despite the colossal resources and efforts that the communist government threw at spreading the truth, at stopping the spread of true information, at spreading actual fakes, they did not worked, and if back in 1987 we have

kgb documents that speak of successful ones attempts to interfere with some rallies that were being prepared for the anniversary of the chornobyl accident in 1987. in 1987, various activists failed, and in 1988, the kgb failed. in 1988, the first rally, unauthorized by the soviet authorities, was held for the anniversary, the second anniversary of the second anniversary of the chernobyl accident, and it is very symbolic that this event became one of the first such manifestations of democracy already in ukraine. why did this happen, why did this environmental topic, the topic of the disaster, become such a sweat... a stream for many people to reject the soviet identity, because it became clear that the government lies, it became clear that these lies can simply kill, and it became clear that this is such a conditional social contract that was in

the soviet union that, well we give you our freedom, you take away our freedom, but in return you give us some sense of security, that he is... the government, that people who put up with the fact that they don't have freedom of access to information, but trusted the government and did what what the authorities said, they suffered the most, they were what they were sure that nothing terrible happened, they were the ones who thought that the authorities would protect them, and actually this did not happen, these people suffered, and this, and this became a terrible blow for many residents of then still soviet ukraine, who understood, what a world of lies, what dangerous lies. they live, and these first rallies since 1988 led to the emergence of a powerful ecological component in russia, which was in opposition to the soviet government, and before that they were exclusively political, that is, some dissidents, former political prisoners, but the appearance

of the environmental movement in this narrative of the struggle against soviet power gave him a very powerful push forward and brought him to the world level. because the world began to talk about the disaster that happened in ukraine, because ukrainians began to talk about the disaster that happened in ukraine far outside the borders of ukraine in order to remind once again that this disaster happened precisely because ukrainians do not have own country this trouble happened because there is a totalitarian occupying soviet government. yes, actually ukraine is occupied. and here is a very interesting thing, we come to the fact that the chernobyl disaster actually became such a trigger for the collapse of the soviet union. you agree with this thesis. of course, without belittling, in essence , the actions of, for example, our dissidents, sixties, liberation movement, we do not belittle. we do not belittle. it is necessary to understand that the movements, these political movements, dissidents, participants in the national

democratic movement, just like most political movements, well, they were not mass, that is, they were people, intellectuals and gathered around themselves quite quickly such people intellectually prepared and ready for some such radical steps, because they perfectly understood that what it meant for them, on the other hand, the chernobyl disaster mobilized many more people. she pushed ordinary people, who probably would never have specifically involved in any political processes, to protest against the government, which betrayed them, lied to them, so she really added to this anti-soviet national-democratic movement a kind of mass that this movement did not have before was, he was just gaining momentum, and it was this push that gave him, well, a lot, gave him the opportunity to go to another level. in one of your lectures, you called this catastrophe named after

lenin, or rather, even your lecture was called the chernobyl disaster named after lenin. please explain this name, why did you mark it like that? well, first of all, the chernobyl nuclear power plant itself , its official name is the chernobyl nuclear power plant named after volodymyrovich lenin, that is , of course, it was typical in the soviet union call everything after lenin. if it is about... why the catastrophe named after lenin, it is because, for sure, if you look very deeply at the roots of this catastrophe, they begin with lenin, that is, with this person who created this system, a totalitarian system, this communist regime, the logical consequence of which was this accident, which could not have happened, as we said at the beginning of our conversation, given the way the construction of this power plant was approached, and the consequences of this accident, that is, they are also a logical consequence of this system, which was created by vladimir lenin, completely closed. a system that did not foresee not only any dissemination of information, which was not

even closed for a long time to any help from the outside, that is, for a long time the soviet union rejected any support from the capitalist and allegedly harmful for people in the west, and believing that it can cope with this problem on its own, in the end, as time has shown, no, the soviet union did not cope with... this problem neither from the political point of view, nor from the environmental point of view, and only that this problem has already begun to be solved at the level world, made it possible to at least partially overcome the consequences of this disaster. as a historian and a public figure, you devoted a lot of time and years to rethinking the narratives and views on the chernobyl disaster and on the date of commemoration of the victims. chernobyl disaster, how should we perceive

this date, this catastrophe, this terrible event in the history of mankind over the years, because in the 90s we perceived it one way, in the 2000s we perceived it differently another, and today already in times, including the big one war, including the occupation of one of the nuclear power plants. six, how to perceive it today, how to present the correct narrative to society, what it is, how it is, how to explain it to people, including future generations? i think that this is not an accident, as one of the, unfortunately, natural consequences of the functioning of the totalitarian system in ukraine, that is, it is the result of all this systemic work, and as an example of what can happen to people. in a system that completely neglects people, and you absolutely rightly reminded

that even now one of the atomic power plant, unfortunately, under the russian occupiers, this is a very serious warning, because, as history shows, these people do not count with human lives, and it is extremely important for us, talking about the chernobyl disaster of 1986, to warn the world against in whose hands... turns out to be such a powerful and threatening mechanism as a nuclear power plant, and why should the whole world unite now in order to make sure that... chernobyl never happens again, because as long as there are russians, russians troops, the russian authorities, unfortunately, there is no guarantee that chernobyl will not happen again. you and i mentioned the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, now it hurts many people, all of us, because we do not know what can happen at any moment, in fact

, this is the attitude of the russians towards the situation at the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. instance, the attitude towards the people who work there, in general, absolutely negligent, negligent attitude and constant provocations that they carry out, this can be considered as a certain rightful succession even here, in russia in relation to the soviet union, absolutely, but among the materials that we published, there are obviously materials of the investigation into the causes of the accident that occurred on april 26, 1986, and in the end. rejected all possible theories about some terrorist attacks and so on and came to a simple but very specific conclusion that the accident was the result of the negligence of the employees, the result of an absolutely careless culture, there is even such a word used, which prevailed among the workers who considered it possible to do

some things that vreshi led to the accident, what is happening now, unfortunately, on zaporizhzhia power plant, this too. it is obvious that we are talking about the same culture, but unfortunately, in some respects , the situation may be more dangerous, because, as we saw, after the explosion of the kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station, the russians are ready to use even such objects of civil infrastructure as weapons, mass destruction, as a mere tool for their terrorism, so the situation here is in some respects even worse than chernobyl and in conclusion. what should we ukrainians, the ukrainian state, the authorities do in order to explain to the world community, to explain in general to the whole civilized world and the uncivilized world about what is happening now, so that we do not repeat this terrible catastrophe that happened at the chernobyl

nuclear power plant already now, in our time, during the great war in zaporozhye, to talk to the world, it seems to me , which we lack a lot. really some kind of systemic information policy in the world, but i already mentioned today about the kakhovka hydroelectric power station, in my opinion, this is an example of the complete failure of information communication of ukraine with the world, when so far the only marathon gathered with some messages, how to explain what happened, information has already gone out to the world that not everything is so clear-cut, what russia needed, we need to talk about what is happening now really in the context, the broader context of ukrainian history, it is very good that ... the people who do this are the books of serhii plokhi, already two books that talk about chernobyl, extremely important, there is a wonderful hbo series about chernobyl, which also talks about these events, but it must be explained that the connection between , what is happening now and those events which took place in the soviet past, because, unfortunately, in the west very often soviet history was considered, was considered and to a large

extent is considered exclusively through the prism of some russian academics. glasses, we need to help our western academic circles to get rid of those soviet academic glasses, and it seems to me that this is one of our missions, and for this we need very systematic informational support from the ukrainian state, i am very sorry that in such an important time for the country, in fact, we do not have a foreign language, that is, in we have some poor freedom houses, who first spoke russian, now ukrainian, but nevertheless, who... definitely do not speak english, who definitely do not bring the necessary information about ukraine to the world, and do not convey a lot of pro-ukrainian narratives, with the point of view of the ukrainian view of the east. mr. volodymyr, i am extremely grateful to you for this conversation, regardless of how many years may pass since the chernobyl disaster, since april 26

, 1986, we must remember, we must understand why it happened, and we must to take into account all the experience and all the problems we had in the past, in order not to repeat the mistakes in the present, and most importantly, in the future. thank you. and now the section is true or fake and i am joined by vedika bahal, i welcome you vedika, today we are discussing rumors that ukraine is allegedly selling artillery installations to russia. caesar, which france handed over to her. tell us more about it. that's right, tom. caesar is a

french-made self-propelled howitzer capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 55 km. from the beginning of russian invasion, france supplied ukraine with about 49 such machines. and paris plans to increase production and sell even more to help ukraine. introduction of military operations. now internet users claim that ukraine actually sold two such caesar artillery installations to the russians. at the same time, the selling price was said to be only $120,000 per unit. it is worth noting that these are leading samples of french artillery, which are famous for their accuracy. according to the representative of the manufacturer, namely the director of sales, they are estimated at about five. we have also been able to confirm that these claims are completely untrue by tom.

ok, tell us how you managed to debunk these bogus allegations, and also shed some light on how fact-checking is done, please. of course, tom, if we start with the source of these rumors, the first online publication appeared two years later. in the factory, the material is presented as a scandalous exposure. despite the fact that this article is actively shared on social networks, it lacks concrete evidence. this media resource has repeatedly been criticized for spreading disinformation, as well as for publishing articles by internet personalities whose surnames often sound baltic, but who are very critical of earlier, this very media resource was also criticized for its involvement

in the russian disinformation campaign called "operation phantom writer". research by the atlantic council's anti-disinformation farlab found that various pro-kremlin media outlets would often share the baltic port's articles on their own platforms. they also quote headlines. in in his materials, so all this raises certain fears about belonging to moscow and doubts about his reliability as a source. the original article also mentions a french-based lawyer named hadji castellano who made very similar claims two years ago that the russian military was now using caesars artillery. castellano also regularly disseminates the kremlin's statements, in particular he named. the text of the article repeatedly uses unnamed french sources and finally confirms

that the sale did take place, referring to the tweet from the lawyer above, without any official confirmation. but in general, this information lacks reliable substantiation from reliable sources, and it all looks very much like an attempt to convince the west. thank you very much for dispelling this myth for us, thank you for your attention, gasoline dreamers are so heavy and loud. inconvenient and, as always , the fuel ran out untimely, and you want to have a beautiful, well-kept plot, there is a solution. garden trimmer corse from rozpak tv, buy in time for a special price, only

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