you can't give in to temptation. very interesting. bohdana, what do you think, how did it, how did it become, well, it became a trend, because i understand that i underestimated the scope of reading in reading clubs, now that i learned the number of reading clubs in kyiv libraries. and it's probably not only kyiv. in fact, there are even more of them, there is a separate channel, which... is the bookstore sense, which simply collects information about book clubs in ukraine, and you can see what, for example, is read in clubs in odesa, in lviv, in kharkiv, in a word, in very different places, and it seems to me that when we talk about this kind of self-discovery, there is such an important decolonial moment here, and it is actually nice to learn that you have more than you have in your whole life. they said, i’m trying so hard to imagine,

you find out that there are, for example, those you named, beautiful novels of the 20s that show kyiv, that you can go for a walk in the city simply through these novels, and they are in ukrainian, through some images of ukrainian and european culture , they will tell you about the capital of your country, and this is such a pleasant discovery, as it turned out for many, on the other hand, i always try to ... say that in fact, even those people who, let's say, did not read, and not necessarily, they had to come, let's say, to reading from russian culture, they might simply not read, but they may well have a certain sensory experience, a certain type of exposure that, say, travel or a love of cinema gives them, and that will enable them to be good readers, sometimes even immediately, and it also allows you to see new perspectives on the texts. which it would seem that we have already re-read

dozens of times, and we talk about this city of podmogilnoy, as if, you know, such a puck goes along some kind of sharpened paths, in fact, you can see the first, second, fifth, and for this you need readers' perspectives, these readers' perspectives are terribly interesting to me, because i understand that people with different educations, different backgrounds, simply different preferences than me and my rather narrow bubble, they can offer completely new raku. which i will then use, say in my projects, and this will only make these projects stronger, very interesting, we, i now a lot, preparing for a conversation with you, i listen to so many podcasts, but i started, i listened to a lot of things that i have never heard, for example, i listened to gogol's mustache, where stand-up artists talk about books ukrlit i i listened to comedians talking about literature. and i see that this is a new language,

a new language has been invented that can be used to speak, this is what my generation did not have at all , because before us they spoke of literature as something that is not given to everyone, but very special high, and about what about what you have to speak a little quietly and with great respect, here people just walk in and just open the door with their feet. yes to hamlet and they just talk about literature in such a very simple slang, how do you perceive it, how do you listen to it? i perceive it very positively, it seems to me that this formality, which was imposed on us, is catastrophic, as soon as a conditional virtual chorale starts to sound from behind and you have to stand out, then put on a very long skirt, then immediately... not okay , and

i think it's great that they are finding this new language, that this language is different, that it's accessible, and as an editor , young authors constantly ask me if it's possible to scribble in the texts, i say: yes, please, let's do it, and i suggest a few examples, so that they understand that all this is possible, that we will have more registers, that we will have more opticians, that we will have even more different views, then this will be a more interesting project, and i like it very much, when new people come in who are not professional literary critics, who are not mine fellow students, they can also give something completely new and interesting, and their speech is alive, and their minds are very inquisitive, and i am especially happy when some very youthful initiatives appear, teenage ones, when it flies in tiktoks, when we have a desire it turns out to be not just a star to steal the rock scene, but also a star of tiktok, and this seems incredibly valuable to me, because t-tok is now largely making literature and...

can sell entire editions, and these are all very different methods, but everything that works for literature, i'm for it with both hands, i think that podcasts are generally a very liberal genre. because even if we take our conversation with you here and now, we are sitting in a studio and the work of an incredibly large number of people behind the scenes is needed for our dialogue with you to materialize, and the viewer is not interested in this, he should not even think about it, he should be comfortable and interesting, a debutant podcaster, he cannot afford such a team, but very often he has a smartphone where he can experiment with recording, buy an inexpensive buttonhole. record a conversation alone or with a friend, edit it and pour it, to try and how will it work and you talked about gogol's moustache, i know they started with two loops and they recorded the sound of the page turning themselves, it was a very low-budget

product, but later, if success comes, if your language is read by your audience , of course you can afford more experiments. and it's really interesting for me to watch those projects that are growing, but they keep this very liberal spirit. sometimes they immerse themselves in the expert part, they involve literary experts in their projects, again, and there are such incredibly interesting interactions, but there remains a kind of wildness that is very healthy. on the other hand, i really like the cult podcast of volodymyr yarmolenko and tetyana ogarkova, and i think that ... the medium of the podcast also allowed more liberality in their conversation, that is, maybe things that they cannot afford within the framework of lecture courses or books , which they have quite formalized, it's a high shelf, definitely, but in the podcast they can allow some experimentation, which later, maybe becomes

also expressed in an academic form, or maybe not, but there is a thrill from this experiment, which we as listeners can simply perceive in our ears, and it will already move ours. thoughts, and that's why i really like this freedom that such genres bring. by the way, i listened to gogol's mustache today, i am still under the impression of a conversation about shakespeare, about shakespeare and about hamlet, where they call hamlet, it seems, the sun of the beach, and ophelia is a drunkard, and this, well, this is actually interesting listen in this highway and they remember you very much. bohdana, they say no, that's it smart guy, let's not be this smart guy, because it's more bohdan, not barak, let him deal with it, she's doing it on purpose, yes, they swim on purpose, that's actually the point, we send each other greetings like this, yes, but look , i understand this kind of

point of view, and i am very close to what it is, that it is all desecralized and deformed and that everyone can speak. and i'm not a purist at all, but on the other hand, i sometimes listen to it and wonder if we're not simplifying in this way, if we can or cannot in this way some a person is young to hear this, and it is like, can it be a spoiling of taste and optics, when too much of it is driven into very simple forms like these, low, i think that any good podcast, and let it be very... crazy, or let it be more like really high shelf, it should encourage first of all to read, look at the source, that is the main purpose of the podcast, why does everyone make you go and form an opinion yourself, and i really like it when there is resistance in the audience, for example, to my words or to my position because i know what if

there is opposition, it means that they will go and look and express their position, so they will argue, they will discuss, maybe they will write something that is not very pleasant to me. however, they will go, understand and form their vision, so any good story, any good podcast and conversations, they should encourage them to go and form their opinion, again, not to impose a ready-made matrix, but at school they imposed one matrix on us, and now we will impose a different matrix, a different board, in other words, but the same matrix, and go and look for yourself, and good podcasts, they manage it, even if their position may be undermined. then the moment of undermining will generate an intellectual discussion, but in order for there to be an intellectual discussion and either, for example, something triggers you, or you disagree or disagree with something, yes, you must already know something, and if this, for example , a very young person who has not read anything, and

now she is told in a very simplified form, and she seems to have the feeling that, well, i already know this, i already am, i can be like that effect, yes, when, when in a very... such a banal plan, some things are retold or reflected on some things, it can also be like that, it seems to me, now is such a time. when we feel very much the importance of curation and the importance of those people who offer us keys to different doors, such, let's call them, intellectual doors, let's say there are a number of series of classics, and important are these comments before or after the text, where we understand that , say, vera ageyeva, rostyslav semkiv or yaryna tsymbal or other literary experts whom we trust, will tell us something about the author and the text. let's say i'm thinking about the character of lesya. ukrainian women and how a person forms a private relationship with her, not school, not because of the image on the banknote,

but personal, and it is not always so easy to simply take oksana zabushko's story about lesya ukrainka, immerse yourself and understand everything, and then you actually come to us, it is these promotional projects that can offer clues to understanding: you are listening to one thing. other, you learn the history, the context, after that you come to the original text, and then it is quite possible that you can open something more complicated. at the same time, i do not want to completely devalue ukrainian readers, because i am convinced that many people, what i actually said, but i want to repeat, they can immediately immerse themselves in what we consider complex texts, and there is no need to be afraid of this, because sometimes that experience , which you have to, it will allow you to... perceive even what seemed inaccessible and the highest shelf, or something that was rejected

all the time by you, even during school in the school program, but i very much i hear such thoughts, well, for my generation, it is the case that ukrainian literature, teachers of ukrainian literature, it was something that, on the contrary, turned us away from ukrainian literature, i wonder how it is now, whether something has changed at school, whether you know someone from schoolchildren, from whom you can find out how , for example, olga kobylyanska or the same lesya ukrainka are studying there now? yes, it has changed, i never refuse to meet with schoolchildren, because it is an opportunity to actually hear what they live, the change of the school program and how it reformatted from junior high school and later, it helped a lot that there were many modern ukrainian writers. that now they read the fairy tales of gali tkachuk, volodymyr arinev, there

is tanya stus and other, living, real writers who write on current topics, that you can read olga kupriyan as a teenager, and not read, as they imagined a teenager in fitka halamitnyka, well, none of the city schoolchildren will be moved by a boy with a cow walking through the field, well , no one is interested in this cow, and it seems to me that such a change in the program and a decrease in the number of... the benefit of slow, careful reading of the text, it works very well at the school level, it works very well to involve different formats, films, discussions, discussions, invitations of living writers, talking with them, i think that my school program was very overloaded, i had to constantly read in huge volumes and i loved to read well, but it was not easy even for me, and at the time, when they chose between mathematics and literature, mathematics was chosen because... the subject is more important, it will be needed in life, because it is the exact sciences, and literature was skipped , it was there

christomatia is a legend, if there are such huge volumes and no one can cope with them, they should have been reduced, and now i see these trends, and when i come to schools, i really like that students very often have their own opinion on this topic , what can they say to me, no, this poem by taras hryhorovych is not good for anything, that's why, that's why, and i really like that they are ready to sing at the age of 12, but they are, that's why i think that today's youth, she is very critical, she is very demanding, and it is very good demandingness i found out, bohdana, that, it turns out, children are currently studying shipmaster yanovsky in the school curriculum, and i was amazed at how much children like it, that is, it is not an easy book, it is not an easy book. yanovsky, and don’t ask for it, it ’s also necessary, in terms of understanding and knowledge of the context, it’s also necessary, but it’s on the one hand, on

the other hand, it’s love, and adventure, and an absolute kind of atmosphere, the romance of the sea, like this, that’s why, we talk all the time with acquaintances, why schoolchildren can love the master of the ship yanovsky, for example, in why, what the secret can be, it seems to me that it is quite simple. it's adventure, it's this flair of the sea, it's cinematography, but also remember the novel itself, there's something there that never came true. there, the old cinematographer remembers his youth, and this is something that we would dream about for ours, those who were in the 20s, yes, for those who lived, for example, for dovzhenko, his memories were completely different, they were much more bitter, they had very different

problems, it's kind of, i think, a big dream that didn't come true with that generation, and... the reader still gets that sense of the dream, and this is a gift left by yanovsky, but it is important for me to say something else here, that recently there was a study by piza, which showed that ukrainian schoolchildren do not read very well, and the level of reading skills is falling, after that i spoke with the kyiv teacher artur proydakov, who invests a lot in the idea of ​​another school reform. education and in particular the approach to reading, and he talks about things that are scary for many, this is, let's say, not a chronological approach, but a thematic approach, and this is the reduction of works that are read, this the ability to stop at the texts and read them in full, and in less than two hours, run through this city, try to immerse yourself in, for example,

certain types of descriptions that are there, and then watch ... a video or go for a walk with your class, if you are in in kyiv, and this is what i dream of, in fact, i wanted it in my own school years, but i am convinced that today it is simply very necessary for us, if we want reading to take place for real, not to imitate reading, and the child had to remember who was in red shoes, who was in some kind of quilted jacket, and that seems to be enough. to pass the test, to have the child do what bohdana just talked about, said, what she likes, say, this text by shevchenko, and maybe she doesn't like something at all, yes, that is, learn to read from some work, learn to read from some work and to think critically, and i, as far as i know, in the west in america, in america they

study, for example, shakespeare for a long time, they can study some one work of shakespeare there for several semesters. yes, i had such an experience led a course, on one large platform, a cultural project for adults called slow reading, close reading, and we did not read, we read the whole text, and then we read together a separate small passage and tried to apply to the passage all possible tools that there are us, what we have learned, what we know from our experience, and it turned out that adults are very interested in this, they are interested in stopping, allowing themselves to be within a paragraph. half an hour and talk about this paragraph, and this is what they really lacked at school, not individual and abstract details, but immerse yourself in the fabric of the text and be with this text in a dialogue, i think that at school it should be, get high, have time to get high from the text, in particular, and i will finally ask you about the conflict, about the conflict, it is not a generational

conflict, it is rather something else, we already talked... in this studio with lyuba yakymchuk about this album, the musical, which was prepared by a certain moore, the creative association of moore, and this is a musical called shot, the word is called you , a romance about the shot dead revival and the shot dead residents of the kharkiv building words, so this project, some people talked about it with great admiration. and distribution and is very rich with many epithets beautiful, and others were very indignant, for example, galina kruk, the poet is wonderful, she said that it is dangerous, she was angered by this project, because, for example, for example, she says that the techina is presented as pale,

a pitiful civil servant who bows before the authorities to become a minister, and mykhailo semenko ... treats listeners, listeners with a cheap provocation, i am quoting phrases from this project right now, and here are the critics of this project called, called its creators, kvenshchik and poorly educated people. the creators of this project called, let's say, such critics as naphtholine schoolboys and some... nosaurs that do not reach, cannot reach a wide audience, this conflict, this is something that will not be avoided, yes, it is absolutely something predictable. do you see, or whether actually, actually, because actually i'm sad too, yes, how the stream is presented, because it's such a massive project, because it's the wrong optics about the stream in my opinion, maybe it's not right, or it

something, what is it in general, what is the story with this, with this such a scandal, the discussion around you romance, i will say for myself, i had a restrained attitude to this project, i saw many enthusiastic reviews, but then i wrote that i became many, because i understand that i am absolutely not the audience of this project, that it should not be directed at me, that this is not my story at all, that i read yarina tsymbal or rostislav melnykiev there, or read a lot about our 20s, in our a whole series of our 20s publishers, it turns out, and that's why i don't i hoped, some individual musical compositions resonated with me, sometimes it was very simplified for me, sometimes there were moments that seemed to me to be successful, that is, somewhere something was... successful, somewhere something was unsuccessful, but in general, in general, i did not perceive this project as something, that should resonate with me or be close to me. for me, this is a project that should again

, ideally, lead us to reread the poem, reread semenka, look and compare semenka's rebellion there and semenka's rebellion in the musical, find some common points, i.e. if it led someone to this process, that 's great, but it won't be me, ugh, of course, yes, but it's me, it's clear that it's not about our lady, but actually galina kruk's claim is that these are false , false optics, wrong optics regarding the ukrainian revolution, regarding the current, regarding all these people and so on. what do you say, bagdan? uh, i actually liked that this project appeared, and i'll explain why, uh, i think it's very noticeable and symptomatic that the part. the following names are becoming popular culture: days a new composition by volodymyr dantes was released, and he says something there, saying that i'd rather read from tus. i could not have imagined this

a few years ago. were you also shocked when you heard that? pleasant, i really liked it, and i can comment on a specific triromantika album, analyze the compositions. but i'm not really interested in that. i am curious about another thing: i feel the passionate desire of the people who were involved in the creation of this album to really answer the question about the penis, agree, it is not easy, and if to this day, there are people who think that the waveman killed his mother, so this means that all these questions, they still scratch our hearts, and the reader's, and that's just how we learn about these figures, so for me it's better the appearance tako... the album is very positive, because i want us to discuss in our social networks and in the news, not the details of how

the ukrainian tabloids write about alla pugacheva, or about the news of russian show business, any others, finally we are arguing about how someone interprets the generation of our 20s, i dreamed of living in such a world, our dream is realized simply. before my eyes, my god, i'm downloading dantesa's album today, listen, thanks, girls, a very, very interesting conversation, i would like to talk with you a little longer, but there is no time, and therefore i thank bohdana nebarak and bohdana romantsova for this wonderful conversation , thank you to everyone who watched us, who was with us and who will now take up the reading, thank you, see you next week, thank you. tired of heavy

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greetings to all viewers of espresso, yana melnyk and this news. they were hiding in an abandoned building and planned to escape from ukraine. according to olena berezhnaya, the officer of the national police, grechnytsia, told the details of the arrest of the attackers of the policemen in the vinnytsia region. the attackers opened fire on the law enforcement officers because they were carrying grenades in the car, but the investigation is clarifying the final motives of the crime. earlier it became known that the perpetrators were searched in odesa region, they turned out to be military personnel from vinnytsia. father and son, they are 52 and 26 years old, respectively, the day before in the haysinsky district vinnytsia region, they opened fire on two law enforcement officers, a car on...