rostyslav seykiv or yaryna tsymbal or other literary experts whom we trust will tell us something about the author and the text. let's say, i'm thinking about the figure of lesya ukrainka and how a person forms a private relationship with her, not school, not because of the image on the banknote, but personal. and it is not always so easy to simply take oksana zabushko's story about lesya ukrainka, dive in and understand. everything is gone, and then in fact these promotional projects come to us, which can offer the keys to understanding, you listen to one thing, another, you learn the story, the context, after this leads to the original text, and then it is quite possible that you can discover something more complicated. at the same time, i do not want to completely devalue ukrainian readers, because i am convinced that many people, what i actually said, but i want to repeat, they

can immediately immerse themselves in what we consider complex texts, and there is no need to be afraid of this, because sometimes that experience , which you have to, it will allow you to perceive well even what seemed inaccessible and the highest shelf, or something that was rejected by you all the time back in school, with of the school curriculum, i hear such opinions a lot, well, for my generation, it's like ukrainian. tura, teachers of ukrainian literature, it was something that, on the contrary, turned us away from ukrainian literature. i wonder if something has changed at the school now or if you know any of the students from whom i can find out, like me now, for example, they study olga kobylyanska or the same lesya ukrainka, but it has changed, i never refuse to meet with schoolchildren , because it is an opportunity to actually hear what they live by. very

the change of the school curriculum and the way it was reformatted from junior high school and later helped a lot, which led many modern ukrainian writers, that now they read the fairy tales of hali tkachuk, volodymyr arinev, tanya stus and other living, real writers who write on on current topics, that you can read olga kupriyan as a teenager, and not read, as they imagined a teenager in fidka halamitnyka, well, well... who among the city schoolchildren today would not be moved by a boy with a cow walking through the field, well, this cow is not for anyone i'm not interested either it seems that such a change in the program and a reduction in the number in favor of slow, careful reading of the text, it works very well at the school level, it works very well to involve different formats, films, discussions, debates, invitations of living writers, talking to them, i think that my school program was very overloaded.

i had to constantly read huge volumes and i liked to read well, but it was not easy even for me, and when they chose mathematics between mathematics and literature, because mathematics is more important, it will be needed in life, because these are exact sciences, and literature was neglected, it was there christomatiya’s narration, if there are such huge volumes, and no one can cope with them, they had to be reduced, and now i see these trends, and when i come to schools, i am very i like that the students... very often have their own opinion on this topic, that they can tell me: no, this poem by taras hryhorovych does not fit anywhere, so, so and so, and i really like that they are ready to argue with taras grigoryovych, because i, for example, have such courage at the age of 12 years, but they have, that's why i think that today's youth, they are very critical, they are very demanding, and this is a very good demandingness, i learned bohdano that it turns out that children now study in the school curriculum. ship master

yanovsky, and i was amazed that how much children like it, that is , it is not a simple book, it is not a simple book by yanovsky, and it is not a request, it is also necessary, in terms of understanding and knowledge of the context, it is also necessary, but it is from one, from the other on the one hand, this is love, and adventure, and an absolute kind of atmosphere, romance, the sea, how is it, for what, we talk all the time... with acquaintances, what can schoolboys, masters of the yanovsky ship love for, for example, what, what could be the secret? i think it's quite simple, it's adventure, it's this flair of the sea, it's cinematography, but also think of the novel itself, there's something that never happened, there's an old cinematographer reminiscing about his youth and... it's something that we would

dreamed for ours, those who were in their 20s, yes, for those who lived, for example, for dovzhenko, his memories were completely different, they were. much more bitter, they had completely different problems, this is some kind of, i think, a big dream that did not come true with that generation, and the reader still feels this feeling of a dream, and this is a gift that yanovsky left, but it is important for me to say more another thing is that recently there was a piza study, which showed that ukrainian schoolchildren do not read very well, and the level of reading skills... is falling, after that i spoke with the kyiv teacher artur proydakov, who invests a lot in the idea of ​​the next reform of school education and in particular, the approach to reading, and he talks about things that are scary for many, this is, let's say,

not a chronological approach, but a thematic approach, and this is the reduction of the works that are read, this is the opportunity to stop at the texts and read them unabridged and not long. hours to run through this city, try to immerse yourself in, for example, certain types of descriptions that are there, and then watch a video or go for a walk with your class, if you are in kyiv, and that's what i dream about, actually, i like that and in my own school years i wanted to, but i am convinced that today it is simply extremely necessary for us if we want the reading to take place for real. there was no imitation of reading, and the child had to remember who was in the red shoes, who was in some kind of quilted jacket, and this is apparently enough to pass the test, for the child to do what bohdana just talked about , said, and what she likes, let's say

, shevchenko's text, but maybe she doesn't like something at all, well, yes, that is, learn to read from some work, learn to read and think critically from some work. and i, as far as i am i know, in the west in the americas, in america they studied shakespeare for a long time, for example, can they study some one work of shakespeare there for several semesters? yes, i had such an experience, i taught a course on one large platform, a cultural project for adults called slow reading, close reading, and we did not read, we read the whole text, and then we read together a separate small passage and tried to passage apply all possible. the tools we have, what we have learned, what we know from our experience, and it turned out that adults are very interested in this, they are interested in stopping, allowing themselves to stay within a paragraph for half an hour and talk about this paragraph, and this is what they really lacked in school, not individual and abstract details, but

to immerse themselves in the fabric of the text and be with this text in dialogue, i think that at school it should be, to get high, to have time to get high from the text, in particular. and i will finally ask you about the conflict, about the conflict, it is not a generational conflict, it is rather something else, we already talked about this in this studio with lyuba yakemchuk the musical album, which was prepared by such a wall, a creative association of walls, and this is a musical called shot, the word you is a romance about a shot revival and residents. kharkiv house of words, therefore this project, some spoke about it with great admiration and spread and many beautiful epithets, while others were very indignant. for example, galina kruk,

the poet is wonderful, she said that it is dangerous, she was angered by this project, because, for example, for example, she says that ... she is presented as a pale, miserable servant, who bends before the authorities to become a minister, and mykhailo semenko teaches the listeners, the listeners with a cheap provocation, i am quoting phrases from this project right now, and critics of this project called, called its creators kvnschiks and poorly educated people. the creators of this project called, let's say, such critics as naphtholine schoolboys and some dinosaurs that do not reach, cannot reach a wide audience, and this

conflict, all this something will not be avoided, it is absolutely something predictable, whether or not you see, or actually, actually, because in fact, i am also saddened by the way the techin is served. because it's such a massive project, because it's the wrong optics, about the channel, in my opinion, maybe it's not right, or it's something, what is it at all, what's the story with this, with this such a scandal? discussion around that romance? i will speak for myself, i was cautious about this project, i saw many enthusiastic reviews, but i wrote then that i was restrained, because i understand that i am absolutely not the audience of this project, that it should not be directed at me, that it's not mine at all the story is that i read yarina tsymbal or rostislav melnykieva there, or read a lot about our 20s, we have a whole series of our 20s published in the publishing house, and that is why i did not... i hoped, some individual musical compositions resonated with me, sometimes it was very

simplified for me, sometimes there were moments that seemed to me to be successful, that is, somewhere something was successful, somewhere something was unsuccessful, but in general, in general, i did not perceive this project as something that should resonate with me, or be close to me, for for me, this is a project that, ideally, should once again prompt us to re-read stamen, re-read the seeds, look... and compare the rebellion of the smnk there and the rebellion of the smnk in the musical, find some common points, that is, if it prompted someone to this process, that's already great, but, well, it won't be me, uh, it's clear , yes, but this, it is clear that this is not about our babushka, but the actual claim of galina kruk is that these are false, false optics, incorrect optics regarding the ukrainian revolution, regarding the tychina, regarding all these people and so on, that you say, bagdan, i... really liked that this project appeared, and i will explain why, it seems to me that it is very noticeable

and symptomatic that such names are becoming part of popular culture, a new composition by volodymyr dantes was released the other day, and he says something in it, saying that it is better to read from tus, i could not have imagined such a thing a few years ago, you were also shocked when you heard it, in a pleasant way, i really liked it and... i can comment on a specific album, you are a romantic, analyze the compositions, but i am not really interested in this, i am interested in something else: i feel a passionate desire people who were involved in the creation of this album, to really answer the question about the testicles, i agree, it is not easy, and if there are people to this day who think that the waveman killed his mother, then it means ... that all these questions, they our hearts are still scratching, both readers', and just how we

find out about these figures, so for me the appearance of such an album is rather very positive, because i want us to discuss in social networks and in the news, not the details of like ukrainian scoreboards and where they write about alla pugacheva or news in russian show business, any others. finally we are arguing about how who interprets the generation of our 20s, i dreamed of living in such a world, our dream is being fulfilled right before our eyes, my god, i am downloading dantes album today, listen, thanks girls, very very interesting conversation, i would i wanted to talk to you a little longer, but there is no time anymore, and therefore i thank bohdana neborak and bohdana romantsova for this wonderful conversation, thank you to everyone who watched us, who was with us and who will now take up the reading, thank you, see you soon

next week thanks hello, this is morning freedom, a radio information project... the top guests every day is a ship district of inclusion live, we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut, we tell the main thing, on weekdays at 9:00, the verdict with serhiy rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format , even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, as well as feedback, you can express your opinion on the bad day with phone survey, turn on and

tune in, verdict with serhii rudenko, every weekday from 20 to 22 at espresso. espresso-interview on tv channel vlasne espresso. here we talk about the most important events of the week. but we also discuss the most interesting things that relate to retrospective issues, here we actually discuss the events that happened once, that happened in... and what our future depends on. today we will talk about a very sad date in ukrainian history: april 26 every year is the day of remembrance of the victims chernobyl disaster, this is the day when, unfortunately, an explosion occurred at the chernobyl

nuclear power plant, and we still, even now... at this time, when in fact 38 years have already passed, we have many questions and we want to hear the answers to these questions. we have in the studio today volodymyr vyatrovych, historian, author of the bestseller ukraine, history with grif secretly. he opened and researches the archives of the kgb, in particular he writes about the chernobyl disaster. head of the ukrainian institute of national remembrance in 2014, people's deputy of ukraine. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you. good day mr. volodymyr, even today, after so many years after this terrible disaster, is it important to talk about these things, is it important to talk about the truth that was hidden from us even in the times of the soviet

union, and even very often, in fact, before revolution of dignity. we are aware that many archives, many things were tried to be hidden even during the time of independent ukraine, after the restoration of the independence of our state. it is definitely necessary to talk about it, because it seems to me that the story of chernobyl is the story of how hiding the truth can literally cost people their lives, so this is the story of how the desire to hide the scale of this disaster resulted in people simply not being given the right information and people who trusted the authorities who believed that you must do what the authorities say, probably the most affected, that is, this is a very instructive story in the context, probably even of world history, in the context of the history of the soviet union, because for me, the chernobyl disaster, for sure, became such

a trigger that started the processes collapse of the soviet union, but this is a very instructive story for us, for modern times. when we live in a world where perhaps they don't hide the truth so much as simply cover it with tons of lies, and even now it's worth remembering this chernobyl story in order to still understand the value of the truth and to understand that it is possible and certainly possible to get to the truth after all, you have to catch up. in your works, you focused a lot on the issue of the fact that the kgb actually knew about a number of problems. at the chernobyl nuclear power plant, about negligence, about actual problems during construction, that in principle such a catastrophe can happen. it's all understandable, it was hidden from society, like any similar things during the soviet union. in your opinion, could it have been

avoided at the time, or if this information had been... more open, more people knew about it, even the same soviet officials, how much could it have been avoided, or is it was this catastrophe essentially already laid by the very existence of the soviet union? totally agree with just enough of your point, because this one really is the catastrophe was laid by this very soviet system in which it took place, because to talk about if there was more open information in the soviet union is an oxymoron, because the entire soviet union was built on... the secrecy of information, on the inaccessibility information, on lies, propaganda, on the fact that those people who wanted to know the truth were even persecuted and physically destroyed, therefore, unfortunately, it could not be otherwise in the soviet union, and it is interesting to understand, the documents of the kgb actually show that the leadership of the soviet state knew the truth about what is happening from the very beginning with

this chornobyl nuclear power plant, it must be said why there are so many documents of the kgb in general. about this object, it was from the very beginning considered an object of strategic importance and from the very beginning of its construction in the early 1970s, it was under very careful supervision of the kgb, up to the point that they studied all the inhabitants of the nearby villages, towns, hung up, made lists of who among them had relatives abroad, who even found someone whose relatives were in the ukrainian insurgent army, all these people were under very careful inspection, under very careful supervision by the kgb, in fact, because it was considered that this was an extremely important object not only for soviet ukraine, but for the entire soviet union, and by the way, it must be understood that this object object was subordinated. directly in moscow, that is, not by the ukrainian ministry, not by the ukrainian soviet socialist republic, but by the moscow ministry, and that is why we have such a large

number of documents, so it is very easy to reproduce from these documents that everything went wrong from the very beginning. process the construction of this nuclear power plant was accompanied by some kind of constant violation of those norms that had to be observed, considering the fact that it is not even just a power plant, it is an atomic one. power plant, this is one of those not-so-frequent experiences in soviet construction, and the kgb constantly informed the party that, where some material was stolen, it was replaced with something of poor quality, there were already some first cracks, but all this was looked at, squinting, because the most important thing was to make it to the next anniversary of october, so that in 1977 year to launch the chornobyl nuclear power plant as an example of such great achievements of the communist government and the entire soviet regime, of course, it was launched, but literally immediately after that

, again, according to the documents of the kgb, we see constant reports about problems with the operation of this power plant, and at first of a minor nature, then, in the course of its further exploitation and introduction of new power units of this power plant, its problems grew to the point that in... in 1982 , one of the accidents occurred, which was accompanied by such a significant release of radioactive substances into open space, and again , only those who made these reports knew about it, that is , the chekists themselves, the kogibists and those whose table they sat on, and they sat on the table exclusively of the leaders of the communist party, people who lived worked there, who, unfortunately, were obviously poisoned as a result of these exits, did not know anything about it... they could not and should not have, and i think that, for sure, this has become the practice of covering up information, it should have been according to

the leadership of the communist party , it is also applied to the disaster that occurred in on the night of april 26, 1986, the only thing that prevented it was the scale of this disaster, such a powerful scale that its results were learned hundreds, thousands of kilometers from ukraine, for the first time about it... of course, something significant happened on the territory sweden, where an increased radiation hazard was recorded at a local nuclear power facility and they thought that an accident might have occurred in them, then realized that it was not, that it was a matter of some air brought by the wind that was poisoned by radiation , this was the beginning of this, in the literal meaning of this leak, which resulted in an information leak, which finally forced the authorities, at least very dryly, without any details, to say something about the fact that the accident happened, at least state the fact that it did happen. for the first, probably, one,

two or three weeks, the soviet authorities tried to do everything so that people did not learn anything, even in those regions that were, in fact, tangential to the kyiv region, you said about what in fact. they started talking about it only after europe, the european states spoke up, started sounding the alarm, if this had not happened, would the ukrainian society or the residents of other union republics have known at all that such a disaster had occurred, or would the soviet union have managed to avoid such a spread of information in this case. and all this could be hidden, it is difficult to say unequivocally whether it was completely hidden, because we are still talking about the year 1986, that is, it is already the time when there is a new leadership of the communist

party, headed by mikhail gorbachev, who already then launched the thesis about glasnost, that is, the system was already a little shaky, the system already was not as coherent as under gorbachev's predecessors, so it is possible that some leaks would have happened, but i have no doubts that the goal is to do everything quietly so that... a minimum of people learn about the threats that are accompanied by an accident, this goal was certainly set, and this goal, this is very clearly visible in how long they delayed the evacuation of people, even from this most affected, then defined as a 30-kilometer zone, the evacuation only began on april 28, because it was believed that well let's wait, maybe everything is wrong it's scary, i remember this first document that was put on the table by... to volodymyr cherbyskyi , the head of the communist party at that time, about the fact that an accident occurred at night, which was accompanied by such and such radiation leaks, and specific ones follow accordingly. the indicators of those,

that radiation, which, which accompanies the accident , the state at this moment, what is on the document, absolutely sincerely, volodymyr sherbytskyi nailed the resolutions, what does this mean, that is , he did not understand what it was all about, well , probably, obviously, as a person , let's say, party education, he was not obliged understand physics, but the unfortunate thing was that he, not understanding physics at all, not understanding the threats of what... he ultimately made the decision about what was going to be done next, so here is the person who said that this means, absolutely did not understand the threat of what happened, because i did not understand what it meant, so the question of evacuating those people who were in the greatest danger was delayed, moreover, all the people of kyiv already remember this story, because it all happened the day before on may 1, of course, the leadership of the communist party

ukraine could not in... refuse the may day demonstration, that is, it would probably be considered some kind of great sacrilege, and we have in the documents interesting measurements of the radiation state in kyiv as of just at noon, when the children went out on baptisms during this parade, we can see just the peak ee of this threat to those people, but nevertheless it did not deter the leadership of the communist party, because in fact. er, they believed that everything should happen as it happened, and that any, unusual steps, any not unexpected steps, well they threaten just their system, that is, you know, this was just such a vivid manifestation of an already dying system that is afraid of any steps even to save itself, and in the end i think that this is exactly what

happened at the chernobyl accident , this absolutely unsuccessful attempt to hide its scale, it became the shock that opened cracks throughout the system and led to its collapse. after the orange revolution, and then after the revolution of dignity, in fact, ukrainians began to gain access to the kgb archives, to those materials that were, unfortunately, inaccessible before that, which shed light on the chernobyl disaster. very. a lot appeared, including scientific works, appeared, relatively speaking, your articles, yes, which formed the basis of research, later on the chernobyl disaster, was under the auspices, under the auspices of the ukrainian institute of national remembrance, these were actually published , these archives were published, one of the books was published, which contained a lot of information, which i read back in 2019, please tell me, why until now

, before 2004, and then in the times yanukovych, in fact they tried to hide information about the chernobyl disaster, because, for example, khoroshkovsky, the then head of the security service of ukraine under yanukovych, he removed it from the website of the service, and under yushchenko we remember that for the first time archives were opened, for the first time people got access, scientists got access, why... even yanukovych's government tried to hide this information, i think that they hid not only information about chernobyl, about the consequences of chernobyl, the consequences of the disaster, because it was already more or less known, in particular some foreign publications, they really hid kgb documents, because they were documents that contained information about hidden information, about methods of hiding information, that is, it was more important for them,

and methods of how uh... certain people who submit are discredited information, methods of how they try to invent some fake news, how journalists were brought from abroad, at first journalists from communist publications there in western europe, who wrote that nothing bad actually happened, everything was fine, then even journalists from western publications, who were sponsored by some nuclear power plants in the west, who wanted there to be less panic, and let's still be... says that nothing terrible has happened, that the panic is exaggerated, we will extinguish this panic, so here i am it seems that precisely in the times of already independent ukraine, especially in the times of yanukovych, they were more embarrassed by this, more embarrassed that ukrainians did not see, did not understand these methods of these techniques, because, well, these methods and techniques were very actively wanted to be used by the representatives i remember this government very well.