united by football, stronger together. see this week in the judicial control program with tatyana shustrova. quick evaluations of the vkks, how the judge's wife passed the interview in 7 minutes. i have worked in the judicial system all my life. but where did the candidate's daughter of an ex-deputy get valuable property. my brother gave me his. on thursday , april 25, at 5:45 p.m., watch the judicial control program with tatyana shustrova on the spresso tv channel. an unusual look at the news. hello ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresen. sharp presentation of facts and competent thoughts. and in america they also say, let's have better roads, we will have even better ones. a special look at the events in ukraine, there will be some katsaps on the border of kyiv and beyond. what kind of world do you dream of, mr.

can we imagine it? all this in an informational marathon with mykola veresny: saturday 17:10, sunday 18:15 at espresso. verdict with serhiy rudenko, from now on in a new, two-hour format, even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests: foreign experts, inclusion from abroad about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion on the bad day with help. background survey, turn on and turn on the verdict with serhiy rudenko every weekday from 8 to 10 pm on espresso. greetings , friends, the second part of the verdict program is on the tv channel, my name is serhiy rudenko, it is being released today. unprecedented control over the news. the us state debt office included a single

telethon in the report on human rights violations in ukraine. will the authorities draw conclusions? restrictions on consular services abroad. a representative of the ministry of foreign affairs can be summoned to the council for explanations of what european governments and courts will say. zaluzhnyi received agreman. the ex-head is leaving for the diplomatic service in great britain. what does it mean? for ukrainian politics, about this and other things, in the next 45 minutes we will talk with our experts, but i will introduce them a little later, i will remind you that we work not only on the air of the tv channel, but also on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us on these platforms, please like this video and also participate in our vote, today we ask you about the following: are consular restrictions for men abroad justified? yes no

it's pretty easy on youtube if you sit in front of the telly watching us on tv then if you think consular restrictions on men abroad are justified 0800 211 381 no 0800 211 382 call everyone calls to these numbers are free and at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, i want to introduce our guests today. in the studio, this is oleksiy koshel, political scientist, head of the committee of voters of ukraine. mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you. thank you for being with us today. and maksym rozumny, doctor of political sciences, political expert. mr. maksym, thank you for joining our broadcast. good evening. well, since we are asking our tv viewers whether they consider the consular restrictions for men abroad, which came into force literally the day before yesterday, to be justified. i will also ask you, gentlemen.

what do you think about these consular affairs of this consular epic and the reaction of those people who are abroad and the reaction of the people in social networks and in society as well, mr. oleksiy, i would break this issue into several, first, will these sanctions or these actions by the ukrainian authorities be effective, in my opinion, 1000% no, that is, it is difficult for me to imagine that men are at risk of losing... their passport, there are other documents, to perform notarial services through the consulate so that they return to ukraine, well, obviously they will, but no more than half a percent, well, maybe even less, that is, these actions will be ineffective, will they they are with a minus sign for ukraine, it will definitely be so, because it will raise a certain wave of publications in the west, western citizens will read again, eu citizens will again read about... thousands of ukrainian men

who are illegally in their territory, this will give a certain , a certain basis for euros for ukraine-skeptics, for us this is a bad story, but i will remind you... that for several months there was a similar story, when they tried there, representatives of the ukrainian authorities said that let us control the money that goes to ukrainian refugees . later there were several statements about the need to return ukrainian men, but there was no mechanism, there were nice words, there were appeals, but there was no mechanism. as a result, again, a wave of publication and skepticism about ukraine. but regarding the necessity of such actions. well, again, we must also think about the issue of justice, the issue of those men who are in ukraine, are on the military register and may be mobilized at any moment, or those who today defend ukraine at the front, and therefore with

of this side, as an answer to the topic of justice, well, first of all, the actions, in my opinion, are absolutely correct, the restrictions fully correspond to the thesis of justice. but, but, these are point moments, they do not regulate the mechanism itself. it is necessary to improve the legal framework. here is a small example: you cross the border illegally, you will be fined uah 800. a person who organizes the passage of men across the border, 8 years in prison. well, in my opinion, these are slightly different things, that is, the article on illegal crossing of the state border should be criminalized. norms about... organization transportation across the border needs to be clarified, because some receive a conditional sentence of one year, others receive 8 years, and there are many such moments, that is, this issue cannot be resolved by one pr campaign or one statement or one action, the actions

must be systematic and complex. thank you, mr. maksym, in your opinion, are such consular restrictions on men who are abroad, i.e. citizens of ukraine, justified? well, i would also divide this question into several, the fact is that it is obviously logical to limit the rights of people who violated the law, we are talking about people who illegally left the borders of ukraine during the martial law, but we understand that there are many other people abroad, men who are conscripted. age, who did not leave ukraine, it can be said that they did not comply with the law on the need to register for military service or to update their data, so to speak, about their status, their condition and

re-register in this way in the territorial recruitment centers, but, well , all this, all these are logical legal questions, which seem to be in this... there is a solution at all inappropriate, i.e. the lawmaker in this case is the deputy minister, as far as it allows, so to speak, to understand the boxes of these documents on the internet, he did not bother, so to speak, just at least wait a couple of weeks, when the relevant law comes into force and acquire at least , in fact , this step has some legitimacy, that is, it is purely pr, but... an action with a political goal, justice, well, yes, it is obvious that these men who have gone abroad, or are in no hurry to defend their homeland, do not really arouse sympathy, there is a desire, so to speak

so to speak, to punish them in some way, but the state, well, the state acts according to the principle when the punishment is legal, logical. and it is justified, that, that, how they did it, and, in fact, what they did, shows that this punishment is purely some kind of declarative, which has a political purpose. uh, if we summarize this whole story, then we can say that this is such a political pr, which obviously has such serious negative consequences for the same and... the image of the state, and about this image of the state in the eyes of its citizens and our foreign partners, just what i would be most worried about, that is, we can, so to speak, for a couple of days get a feeling of satisfied

justice, but finally we showed them the effectiveness of the ukrainian state. trust in the ukrainian state, the existence of a rule of law in ukraine in general, it is once again put into great doubt, as far as our foreign partners are concerned, well , i'm afraid that this pr is designed for them as well. we remember how our partners complained about these conscript men, these are german politicians, some said, who are under within the borders of ukraine. we remember the american senators who also advised us to somehow increase the scale of mobilization. perhaps, because there is synchronization with that decision in washington. tone and readiness of our european partners, perhaps there is a desire

to take such an effective political step based on their reaction, they say we are also trying, we are also doing something, but with such one-time pr actions, it is obvious that we will not build state policy, in the committee on national security, defense and intelligence of the verkhovna rada says that... the committee may summon representatives of the ministry of foreign affairs for clarification on the suspension of consular services for men abroad, said solomiya bobrovska, a member of the committee on national security, defense and intelligence, in an interview with radio liberty. let's listen to what she says: from the day this law enters into force , the law that there are two months and 60 days for people to have the opportunity. come to the trade center or another option to issue an electronic account and

get a barcode there or any other confirming document, not even a an electronic form of the result of the fact that you entered your data in the safe, would confirm this at the consulate during service, when receiving consular actions. all this, as always, no one explains to anyone, the ministry of foreign affairs, how did he attack me simply because, how can i say? diplomatically, because of some back yard, and actually not just an idea, because of which it should be adequate, they are pushing all our citizens away, literally pushing them to get temporary residence permits of other countries. the european union announced that they had taken attention to the decision of the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine to suspend the provision of consular services to men of mobilization age and continue to provide them with temporary protection, but here... this is a decision adopted by the ukrainian side,

and, well, probably, it will be contested by some of those people who are on military duty registration in ukraine, but cannot use consular services, i.e., well , in the end, not all of them are people who illegally crossed the border of ukraine with the european union, not all of the people who are hiding there, because in some there is a legal right... to have three children abroad, whether they are custodians, and here, in fact, all of them, all of them are deprived of this right, the right to consular service, although the law on mobilization comes into force on may 18 on the 24th of the year and there will be, as solomiya bobrovska said, 60 days to update their data in the tsc, that's what in the current... these european courts can say if citizens of ukraine will appeal the decision

of the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine, that's what, regarding restrictions on their rights, of course, we can now talk about that this is true, it is the duty of every citizen of ukraine, according to the constitution, to defend his state, but it so happened that i don't know how many 600 or 700 thousand men from ukraine are currently abroad... can they question this decision through the european courts, mr. oleksiy. you know, a very interesting topic, a very interesting topic, but it seems to me that it is important here that some serious analyst, legal group analyze and find out all the risks. by the way, i am not ruling anything out, because yes, the citizen is illegal crossed the dniester through the tisza, through the tisza, he can pay his fine. a symbolic 200 €, well , this is what ukrainian legislation provides for today, and then he is honest

before the law, that is, i do not rule out that the mechanism of appeal through the european courts, it may work, if it is so, it will simply be a sentence for those who made this decision , but why, why exactly such a decision was made, that is, the decision must be made legally flawless, well, if you and i were to develop a decision, we would for... involve the best experts, we would involve several legal groups, we would conduct a focus group, we would conduct a detailed analysis there and then come up with a decision, here i have the impression that the decision was made simply from the wheels, well, actually, i didn’t even expect anything else, so that in general we have built such a sick, false, distorted model, management model in ukraine, the head of state publicly said that there are five or six people involved in the development of state decisions, he did not name

the surname, we can only, or rather he even some of the surnames called, but se... these surnames there was no prime minister, there was no chairman of the verkhovna rada, there was no secretary of the nsdc, well , what are we talking about, that is, deletant decisions, not professional decisions, decisions based on pr, so i do not exclude that it can also be appeal, but here there should still be a professional assessment, a decision aimed at justice, called the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, dmytro koleba, the termination of consular services for ukrainian men of reproductive age. who live abroad, i will quote mr. kuleba in an interview with the guardian: the boys are in the okupaks very much tired, they don't understand why the government isn't trying to get more people to join the war. according to kuleba, it is not yet clear how many ukrainian men will return, but he considers it unacceptable that men abroad sit in restaurants while others

die at the front. well, the minister articulates quite logical and correct questions. of foreign affairs of ukraine, no one will argue with this, but over the past two years we have actually seen many variations of how people tried to go abroad, and legally and illegally, and these systems are the way, we remember how places were bought there, people left as volunteers and did not return to ukraine. mr. maksym, you say that there is more politics in this decision, but if we talk about... about the practical plane , kuleba does not know how many ukrainian men will return, if, if this number is not so significant, whether it will be correct to say that we took this step, we were wrong, but we acted according to such and such a situation, and it is not against the constitution, and

that every citizen of ukraine must defend ukraine, wherever he is and... must return to his homeland no matter what, well, you know, if these words of ee about the guys in the trenches are tired, and uh, the other guys shouldn't be there at this time to sit in restaurants abroad, someone said, well, some public figure or even a politician from the rostrum of the verkhovna rada, well, this is the highest, uh, because in principle, we read it every... day on social networks, and this this is a common opinion, and it is obviously correct, but the minister of foreign affairs is not that person and not that one a position in which, well, such statements are made, to be honest, if speaking already in principle, that is, the minister of foreign affairs is a person who must be based on a clear legislative

framework and conduct state policy, at such a level, it is reasonable to comment on all this, well, it’s just not serious, that’s why i think that it was really about some kind of political action, about some kind of political task, you know, by the way, in one of the last polls, dmytro koleba was, it seems, in second place among the representatives of the current government level of trust and recognition after volodymyr zelenskyi, the president of ukraine, so... i do not rule out that this is some part of a pr campaign, maybe we will soon see dmytro kuleba in the position of prime minister and such a pr campaign specific to him is simply organized, or maybe on the contrary, they decided to burn him, so to speak, in this action, to set him up, as

it is called, and in the future he will be responsible for all the consequences of... which we are talking about, by the way, i do not think that there will be special courts, i i think it's just in some countries decisions will be made that will solve this problem in that the main problem is that the main problem is that some ukrainians will have their foreign passports expired, and the host countries will have to somehow... deal with this, this, these will be their problems, they can send these men back, which is very expensive, difficult, and there can really be serious lawsuits, they can somehow limit their rights, but i think they will go to these european countries of ours by some temporary rules that will allow

the use of these passports, in short, i don't think that it will have any serious, well, it certainly won't return these men to serve in the ukrainian army, but it's even unlikely that it will create such big, significant problems for them there stay well, there was a resolution of the cabinet of ministers stating that it is forbidden to issue a passport of a citizen of ukraine or a foreign passport to ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 abroad , they will be able to obtain such documents only from a territorial authority or the territorial unit of the migration service, meaning the state migration service, such passports are not forwarded to a separate unit or to... a diplomatic institution of ukraine for the organization of their issuance, but these requirements do not apply to ukrainian men who have the right to cross the border during wartime i will, well, i understand that

now the consular department or the state enterprise that worked abroad will not issue passports to those people, they will have to go to ukraine, that is, even if they become registered in... in the tsc, as far as i understood this resolution, well, we will see how it will be a decision to act abroad, in what way people will circumvent it, because probably some of the people will either return, or go around, or return to ukraine, how many men will return, let's see. i will remind our viewers that we are conducting a survey today and we are asking you about whether consular restrictions for men abroad are justified, on youtube everything is quite simple, yes, no, or the world. comment please comment below this video if you watch us on tv pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think consular restrictions on

men abroad are justified 0.800 211 381 no 0.800 211 382 all calls to these numbers are free , vote another news that came parallel to the news about the allocation of 61 billion to... dollars of aid from the congress and the senate of the united states of america to ukraine, the state department of the united states of america published a report for 2023, which deals with the violation of rights person in ukraine, adding there the point about the national telethon, which the state debt office writes in its report. the national telethon, a rotating platform of channels that toe the government line in coverage of the war in the. enabled an unprecedented level of control over primetime television news. moreover, some media outlets reported being suspended from lucrative terrestrial broadcasting contracts

and those from the president's office as early as the spring of '22. what are these conclusions, gentlemen, about the single telethon, how and whether they will affect the actions of ukrainian officials. and on the existence of the telethon itself or the reformatting of this marathon or the state department, their remarks will in principle be perceived as advice that can be ignored. mr. oleksiy, you know, many people think that during the acute phase of the war, talking about freedom of speech, about the media, about the marathon is trivial, it is secondary, no, nothing like that, that is, if you look at how the west... perceives ukraine, i.e. evaluations of various governments, international organizations, international funds, there are indices, democracy and everything else, issues of freedom

the word is always in one of the first positions, and therefore it is quite natural that it is not just about the broadcast format, it is about the fact that the first for a group of tv channels, the group of tv channels was simply thrown off the air, as they did with espresso tv, by the way, and will explain this. .. no one gave it, only at the level of the spokespersons of the president’s office, so in an attempt to have a sense of humor they said that, they say, there because of their sympathies for certain politicians, well, that’s the first thing, the west does not accept this, it is not done that way in democratic countries, and it is necessary to understand, and therefore, this assessment, it lies in the decisions of the governments regarding other issues, regarding the financing of ukraine, regarding the support of ukraine, perhaps, including with weapons, that is, this is exactly... the topic that feeds the positions, supports the positions of ukrainians, ukrainian skeptics in the european union , so these are simply unacceptable things. question number

two, which... in my opinion, no less important, it is not, again, not about the broadcast format, but it is about a huge mistake by the authorities, which was made at the end of the spring, at the beginning of the summer of 22. i assume that in the first months of the acute phase of the war, the position of marathon was probably justified, several weeks, maybe several months. next , a huge mistake was made, due to the preservation of the marathon format in... there was a surge in trust and a surge in the rating of various anonymous sources in telegram channels, other media, other social networks, and here a huge problem occurred, today there according to various surveys, about 80% citizens will receive information, the first source of information is the sources in social social networks, and this is

a disaster, because the russians... behave in the telegram network is just like at home, but now i can count on the fingers of two hands 15 million russian and pro-russian channels that work in the direction of russian propaganda, and it is not obvious that we are talking about several tens of millions of ukrainians who read these channels as a whole, this is a huge mistake, it just need to fix. thank you, mr. maksym, how do you evaluate these criticisms of the state department and... the state information policy in general, because it is not just about a single telethon, but about how our information field, which the state governs how effectively this field fights, including with russian propaganda, oleksiy mentioned these telegram channels and understood about this environment in which millions of ukrainians live, and it is obviously one thing to turn it off.

press, the fifth channel and direct from t2, and another thing is to make an effective, effective obstacle for russian propaganda resources, or to create a powerful tv channel that would speak and introduce counter-propaganda. i think that this assessment of our western partners will probably not be decisive to form an information flight. of the government, but it is quite symptomatic, and it actually reflects the paradoxical or even absurd situation that exists in our country today in the information space, but actually i would emphasize the already mentioned figure of 80% of ukrainians who receive information from alternative sources, this very important, that is, in fact, if the idea of ​​a single...

telethon was to speak with one voice and in acute, extreme conditions, when really the whole nation spoke with one voice and i listened to one voice, it was justified to some extent, er, it was more effective and it was necessary in that situation, maybe, but er, by the way, there is another possible aspect here, m... it’s not a secret, that our main tv channels are financed by large administrative and economic groups, which in this situation obviously could not fulfill their financial obligations, and it was, so to speak, also an economic necessity to consolidate this media resource, but the situation developed and today it has reached its opposites, that is, on

today... in the ukrainian information space, in the ukrainian public space, there are many opinions, there are many positions, and to pretend that a single telethon reflects a single consolidated national position is simply inappropriate, simply ridiculous, therefore, from this situation, there is obviously a single the way out is to return to normal broadcasting, and to leave, obviously, some official channel in order to understand politics. what kind of policy does the government profess and what is it really proposed by the government, i mean in a broad sense, the president in the first place in turn, and his team, but at the same time to give an opportunity to develop all other approaches, all other views, especially since we made sure that in the so-called alternative field or on the same espresso tv channel or other tv channels.