the man who created the term genocide, who is also behind the un convention on genocide, rafal lemkin. dr. lemkin is the man who coined the word genocide, and has really been fighting its manifestations for a very, very long time. dr. lemkin, could you tell us why you were interested in this fight against genocide? i became interested in genocide because it happened so many times. i told myself that as a lawyer i had to do something about it. and i submitted. draft convention. i tried to interest the organizations of the united nations, so i approached the delegations. the delegations of cuba, panama and india supported the resolution, and then we launched the process. the destruction of culture and identity was not included in the convention, although rafa lemkin, who coined the term genocide, very clearly thought and spoke about the destruction of culture as one of the key elements of genocide. that is, the destruction of culture,

the burning of books, the destruction of museums, the destruction of libraries, no doubt, we can certainly use them as signs of intent. during his lifetime, rafa lemkin drew attention to moscow's previous crimes against ukrainians. in in a 1953 report, lemkin described the kremlin's attempts to destroy the ukrainian nation as soviet genocide in ukraine. one of... that genocide was the holodomor, a famine artificially created by moscow in ukraine in 1932-33, which took the lives of almost 4 million ukrainians. but not only. the author of the word genocide drew attention to the systematic imprisonment and execution of ukrainian teachers, writers, artists, thinkers and political leaders, starting in the 1920s. in general, over a million people were arrested in ukraine during the soviet period. persons, 140 of them

thousands were shot. the generation of hundreds of ukrainian writers and artists destroyed by terror was later called the shot dead revival. ukraine is very easily susceptible to national destruction, when it is carried out by attacking selected parts of its population. therefore , communist tactics there differed from the pattern of german attacks on jews. the ukrainian nation is too populous to be completely destroyed with just one. efficiency, but its religious, intellectual and political leadership, its selective and decisive parts are quite few, so they are easy to liquidate, that is why the soviet ax hit with full force precisely on these groups. almost 100 years after the genocide that lemkin spoke about, the kremlin decided to repeat the proven sampling tactic in ukraine. extermination

of ukrainians. a warning about this was sounded at the level of the un security council a week before the full-scale invasion. and conventional attacks are far from all that russia plans to inflict on the people of ukraine. we have information that indicates that russia will target specific groups of ukrainians. in a few days before the invasion, the us representative at the un office wrote. the letter in which it was said. we have reliable information indicating that russian forces are creating lists of specific ukrainians to kill or send to camps after the military occupation. these lists included journalists, activists, and generally those who oppose russia's actions. very soon these warnings came true. after the liberation of the north of ukraine from the russian occupation , they began to appear. specific evidence about these

lists, in particular from buchi. there was evidence of existence shooting lists, the fact that the russian military went from house to house, looking for specific people, so these were not, you know, cases where just a drunk soldier really wanted to pull the trigger. it was planned in advance. they had lists, the lists were printed, not written by hand, maybe someone from the local area somewhere dictated some collaborations. knew where they were going, to which address and to whom, and what kind of person it was. later, testimonies about the organized work of the russians on the lists rang out from other liberated territories. the city of kherson, in the south of ukraine, russian troops occupied almost from the first days of the full-scale invasion and began systematically kidnapping. people, among them was

the chief doctor of one of the kherson hospitals and a former deputy of the kherson city council, leonid remyga, here more than 500 km from buchi, from... he also talks about the lists of all the activists who were, former deputies who remained those with active positions, yes, they had these lists, and they knew everything about everything, about all the activists, and those who did not have time to leave, they arrested almost all of them. at first the russians came to leonid remyga in the hospital to persuade him to cooperate. later, i was detained and tied up... in the building of the pre-trial detention center, during interrogations the doctor was pressured for his pro-ukrainian position, and there were also such accusations that i, as a deputy , voted against the russian language in the territory of kherson, that i voted for the renaming

of these communist symbols and so on, they already had all the documentation ready for me, well, it was specific, you voted for... at the session, yes, i voted, you took part in actions, there regarding ukrainians, yes, i say yes, i took part, together with leonid remyga, about 140 other people were kept in the building, they were beaten and tortured, as remyga's doctor helped as much as he could, i was in the same cell with the guy. well, they asked him a lot every day, there were incredible screams, they put him in a cell, he was covered in blood, he was beaten all blue, we even bandaged him, well , sorry, i bandaged

his legs there with toilet paper, violence, psychological and physical tried to suppress, in particular, ukrainian patriotism, if you don't sing the anthem of russia, but... they give you a few, yes, is obtained so that you learn the anthem of russia, then, if the camera opens, you must stand tall and shout: "glory to russia, glory, glory to putin, glory to russia, glory to shego". if you don't shout that, or someone else, they take you out into the corridor and beat you, just beat you to death, they just abused you, they abused you, if they heard the ukrainian language there, for example, that's they were very scared, we were really forced to speak in russian in order to protect ourselves from beatings, abuse and so on. in the same building of the detention center

oleksiy sivak also spent 54 days in kherson. when during the russian occupation in kherson... problems with food began, he and his friends cooked soups for the townspeople. he also participated in underground resistance, printed pro-ukrainian and anti-russian leaflets, painted and hung ukrainian national symbols around the city. in the end, the russians came to his home. in prison, he was not only beaten, but also tortured with electric shock. they connected electricity to the ears, to the genitals, beatings. were different, for example, to the angles when the electrodes they connect, well, i was still wearing a cap, so the skull is visible, my skull and electric discharges, during one of the interrogations, something like where the fascists, i

’m already baptizing myself, i say, there were no fascists in the city before you, oleksiy’s memories of violence due to nationality , impressive... similar to the stories of the remiga doctor, they forced to shout glory to putlar, well, i am glory to shoigu, glory to russia, well, if he wants, the guard, or like them, jailers, pokes his finger, like singing the russian national anthem, and if he didn’t sing , even if he sang, there were people who you... it doesn't matter wrong intonation, let's say, then they took you out into the corridor, beat you with shockers, batons, and they didn't encourage the ukrainian language, so to speak, you couldn't speak, well, like that, that is, they didn't understand right away, they started

beating you, speak -humanly, the russians released leonid remyga and oleksiy sivak at the end of october 2022, when they were already preparing to retreat. ukrainian troops entered the city in november, but eight months of occupation showed the systematic terror of the russians against ukrainian patriots. similar handwriting on all the occupied. in february 2024, dmitry medvedev openly approved the policy of repression against ukrainians who do not want occupation. there is such a problem as the zhduns, what to do with them, these are the people who got russian passports, because it is more convenient that way, and deep in their hearts they are waiting for ukrainian tanks. if these are people who harm russia, then they must be exposed and punished. to siberia, like that, for re-education. the target is

a national group, not an ethnic, racial or religious group. in the case of ukraine, it is not so important what nationality or religion you are, as long as you belong to a political community. indeed, the attacks are first of all aimed at these most prominent representatives of the state, or of the ukrainian national group, yes, who... are actually the face of this group, that is, the calculation is most likely in the russian federation that after the disappearance of these persons, there will be no further need such a large-scale genocidal campaign. it also strikingly echoes how rafal lemkin described the soviet genocide in ukraine in his 1953 report. there was no attempt to completely kill ukrainians, as was the method of the german attack. on jews and less so, if the soviet program achieves complete success, ukraine

will perish as if all ukrainians were killed, because it will lose that part of the people that preserved and developed its culture, its beliefs, its unifying ideas that paved the way for it and gave it a soul, that is, made it a nation, and not just a population. the un convention on genocide also does not speak exclusively about attempts at total extermination. national, ethnic, racial or religious group, it is about complete or partial destruction, by definition genocide is generally not about the number of victims. even if you kill one person or two, if you can clearly show that there was an intent to destroy the group, genocide has been committed. so, was this intention sufficiently demonstrated, cases of mass murders, russification of children, russian propaganda, targeted attacks on ukrainian patriots and ukrainian

culture, for many it is enough to talk about genocide, not only for individual political leaders, the polish parliament declared about genocide , violence that is used deliberately and systematically by the troops of the russian federation against civilian residents of ukraine has signs of genocide. the parliaments of latvia, lithuania, the russian federation commit acts of genocide against the ukrainian people, as well as the parliaments of the czech republic and ireland, but parliaments are not international courts. hard, irrefutable evidence may indeed be insufficient for an international court. it can be extremely difficult to prove an unequivocal and indisputable genocidal intent in court. even in the case of the deportation of children between the people's criminal court limited itself to military charges crime, not genocide. if you are a lawyer or

a prosecutor trying to put individual criminals in prison to answer for their crimes, this may be a smart strategy, given how difficult it is to prove genocide, because rafal lemkin coined the term genocide, the courts are all they will rely not on his broad vision, but on the narrow text of the un convention. and most likely for established practice. as an international lawyer, william shabas is convinced that, under such conditions , there will not be enough evidence for the court about the genocide in ukraine. yes and whether do you need it russians can be successfully prosecuted without this. to me, too much energy is spent arguing about whether something is genocide or not, when there is no argument about... that war crimes were committed, that's pretty obvious, there's plenty of evidence of such crimes and there's not

going to be much of a debate here . i think the same goes for crimes against humanity, so in that sense it's just, it's a distraction in a way. on the other hand, the term genocide has the right to life not only in the courtroom - emphasizes eugene finkel, who was one of the first scientists to accuse russia of committing genocide in ukraine. remember, genocide is a legal term, but it is also an analytical term. the level of evidence required to imprison someone for the crime of genocide varies from. to look at what is happening as a whole and say that it is genocide. i see no reason not to use the term for analytical purposes to describe what happens, if it meets the criteria, outside the courtroom, and i would not him, if it were not so. ukrainian scientist

dmytro koval adds that it is impossible to explain the russian... war without using the term genocide. genocide is the most appropriate term to explain the motives of the russian federation, the motives of individual leaders of the russian federation, and to explain how the current conflict is embedded in the chain of historical events. that is, when we want to understand what are the causes of the suffering of ukrainians at the hands of the russian state, representatives of the russian state. we definitely need. use this one the term genocide to actually tell this story. this story is experienced differently by the victims of russian crimes. oleksiy sivak from kherson, who was bullied by the russians for almost two months, clearly sees the historical parallels we talked about. the saddest thing is

that i have experience, we know the history but we don't learn it, we make the same mistakes, basically the weapons change and the methods stay the same. doctor leonid remyga, who was imprisoned in the same kherson, well understands the true purpose of the russian full-scale invasion. we realized that, despite the fact that we have large families. ties with russia, these are just non-humans, these are simply, unfortunately, non-humans who came to destroy our ukraine, and i understand that well. irina, in the death of oleg abramov, who was killed in the massacre, gives irina the strength to live on and hope for justice. i believe in justice, i expect

victory, that's why i live, i want to see. as the triumph of justice, almost because of that i live, their suffering and mental wounds will not become more or less, depending on what the actions of the victims of which will be called in the verdict they became, a war crime, a crime against humanity or genocide, but will there be historical justice? really complete, if the word genocide does not sound.

congratulations, russian propagandists have made a stunning turn, but you may have already forgotten about the fugitive president viktor yanukovych. but the russian propagandists did not forget about him, moreover, you know, how they pushed him to the post of these presidents, a whole brigade from moscow came to politegno. to work, and not once, twice, when he ran for president, they convinced him how beautiful he is, how ukraine needs him, in the end they convinced him, he became

the president, then the opposition, the people of maidan for a long time said that something was wrong with this president, and in general, somehow he is not doing the right thing, and what do you think, now that the same thing that was said on the maidan about yanukovych is said in the studio of russian tv channels. what about the people who sat down like an eagle on the toilet, quickly took off their hats and ran away, women, yes, yes, why is the women's toilet two meters long, why, he couldn't even commit a serious crime, he robbed women, women, it's just nothing, yanyk had two walkers, yes three, they say, they say three, one was found. well, but there was no authority, we all thought that he was an authoritative thief, he was also shameful, he revealed everything, that is, it suddenly turned out that he is

a thief, and this is said by people who were factions of his party, who seemed to support him all this time, you know, well, with such conversations, a few more years will pass, and they will also say exactly... what are we talking about putin now, putin, well, three dots, and it is just the impression that it will not be long we have to wait, literally a little, and we will also hear about it, we will hear a lot more about what we are talking about now, they say that it is not so, and then they will tell, but no, that is how it is, here is a thief, another there, there is a murderer and so on, well, there is another event of the same nature, they talked, talked, talked for two years. they said: the third world war has begun, the third world war is already here, something happened and the third world war is already here, and suddenly, with the same mouth, it turns out that it is not the third world war.

militant rhetoric is on the rise. ukrainians, podolyak believes that the third world war is already underway. of course, he has a weak idea of ​​what the third world war is like. i believe that the third world war can only be among the main countries. ukraine is not such an enemy that one could say that the third world war is going on. well , actually, you know, this was and is the concept of the war of the russians and the kremlin in general, just to wage a hybrid war on the territory of ukraine, and ukraine seems to be unable to answer, this main idea did not go anywhere, it does exist, so of course every time it turns out that ukraine is fighting back, that

ukraine is getting weapons for this, that it is impossible to come to ukraine like this and suddenly ukraine is unarmed, yet there is some possibility of resistance, this all surprises them endlessly, and every time it is something like that for them , you know, the news that they tell each other, they say, you said that here... there will be no weapons, but then there are weapons again, and here , once again, there are weapons again, and again such, you know, news , that in principle, when a country is at war, it can buy, yes, it can receive weapons for this war, exactly as, by the way, russia also gets these weapons, it does not surprise them that they can buy weapons somewhere and even steal them in some places, but something ukraine cannot get weapons, buy and so on, something they did not expect such a turn . very strange, and you know why , because that was their concept of war, now surprise, now suddenly eyes opened. america, of course, america, of course,

will still give money to ukraine, everyone agreed that it had to be proven, it was a little funny to listen to those who thought that they could not to approve, because the war will end, because all resources are exhausted and no one will give anything anymore, they will give, they will give everything, they will give, as long as there is something to give, and there will always be something to give. yes , you know, in fact, they are all deceiving, because they really hoped, uh, and well , they did everything so that ukraine would not be given weapons, and they thought that they had achieved this, and it must be said, their company after all, she was successful, er, she, well, she delayed the opportunity for us to get weapons, and you know, with all that, well... russian studios they even somehow do not hide the fact that this is actually the only thing that allows them to have at least some success in ukraine, but only when...

there is no country, not even that there is a sufficient number of weapons, any weapons at all, but then yes, they can do something, and this is after all those cries that they, how will they be able to fight with nato, with which nato, you with an unarmed ukraine, at most can capture one town and village there, that's all, that 's the end of it, and now there is, you know, hysteria and panic that the window of opportunity is visible, closes, it turns out that this was the only one. the window of opportunity for all these, well, almost 10 years that they have been fighting with ukraine, the only window of opportunity was when russia achieved this there, you know, was able to influence ukraine through some of its agents, for some time they did not give enough weapons, when it literally happened there was a shell crisis, this was the only window of opportunity, listen, it turns out that way. it seems to me that we have

a window of opportunity until the summer, why until the summer, if there is a delivery of weapons on friday for this the agreed 61 billion, for the amount that is for weapons from this 61 billion, they have not yet left, the package is being prepared and deliveries will begin, well , they will deliver a batch of bradleys, a batch of armored vehicles, i wonder what they will do first. they deliver, and then they announce, i won't argue, but we'll see, because with the means of air defense, i don't see anything concrete being delivered to them yet, we'll wait until friday , and then you know, they're trying to tell their viewers about it again , that everything is actually there and everything has already been brought, and only then there is something...

signed, but they understand for themselves that this is not the case, that this is the only reason they could do something, that we really did not have these weapons, from the word go at all, and now they are trying to calculate how far the weapons will go, or really it's far away, they're all like that, and you know, it's even somewhat useful to listen to how they generally see the coming... wartime, because we have our own ideas about what can happen, what can't happen, but the idea of ​​the russians, it, you know, they are broadcasting, and it shows to some extent what they can, in fact, they're also very much discussing the moment, which is, you know, a race for speed, but who can mobilize everything, all their strength quickly now, because,

well, he decided... the moment for the second, third attempt, the fourth may not simply be an opportunity in russia, but it was now, and if we pass this period now and then we can concentrate, get weapons and something, well, show in terms of defense, that’s all, they don’t have any more opportunities somehow , you know, there are no such super ones weapon moments or anything else that will allow. them to continue this offensive that they staged, that's what comes out of what they 're actually saying, but listen, well, it's actually, well, it's said in a slightly indirect text. and what is changing, they have already set a part, if they cross the border without biden's signature, they will imprison everyone there, well, they will not imprison, but there will be a big scandal, this cannot be done, there was a chance for six months, it was the

reserve that provided. the advantage that is now present, the question rests on the timing, if the process will be delayed, and will move from may to june or july, then of course it will all be there already, and aviation will already be there, f16, the question is what will happen now, escalation is being prepared, the parties are beginning to strain resources, very large, this is very serious the story will be from different sides, they start from one side. warehouses, on the other hand, the economic component, what is happening now is the beginning of a beautiful journey, so far the big question is timing, while this window of opportunity is there, if you continue to prepare, prepare, prepare, then for several months this option will change. in fact, the question is who will make it sooner? that is, it turns out that it is some, you know.