part of the turkish population, and actually erdogan is quite comfortable with this position, the fact that others, let's say partners there are not ready to accept this position, it is erdogan who does not get around it, that is, he, in principle , can normally demonstrate his independent, independent position in on this issue, since there is no clear... unequivocal position regarding palestine, including among nato countries and or among this war or among the west as a whole. but on the other hand, we see a situation where erdogan now has to justify himself by the more radical islamic public in turkey, because he, while criticizing israel , does nothing economically to glorify it? yes, without a doubt, well, this is a political, internal-political struggle, we know that... this is a new party of bla

blahodenstviya, which, actually, is now gaining points and gaining votes, and including first of all biting off these votes, this is an act of opposition , it is clear that they want to make their political capital precisely on this, and therefore their policy, their strategy is obvious to raise this issue in society and criticize the current power precisely because of turkey's unwillingness to directly influence this conflict in any way, that's why i think that certain demonstrations of this kind of position on the part of erdogan, not least under the influence of the growth of these islamist radicals. today marks effectively two weeks since iran attacked. israel, mr. igor,

in your opinion, what is the further development of these events, is an escalation possible in the near future, or will everything calm down and remain in the positions that are, which are now? well, yes, we are here we can name many dates, there were three weeks when israel attacked the consulates, two weeks when iran attacked israel, one and a half weeks when israel attacked iran and so on . now there is a certain strategic pause, because at least iran has to solve the issue with its air defense and aircraft, that is, it absolutely needs it, and without this they are not ready to further escalate the situation, and accordingly gather their allies, as far as these allies are ready to go with him to the end, or at least to the logical end the end of this conflict, it will be political... political support, whether it will be

military support, whether it will be some other, it is combined support, that is, for iran , it is very important because they do not feel confident, including even in support russia and china. yes, on the one hand, without a doubt, political consultations are taking place, and it seems that they actively support iran, but we understand that china has much more interests and... it is much more interesting for him to invest money in saudi arabia than the same iran , and russia accordingly, a war on two fronts also has problems, in this case, it is probably not the best option for russia, and making israel an enemy is also probably not a very good prospect for moscow, so...

everyone is hesitating, and the iranians are hesitating also, well , israelis have israel, and israelis also have a lot of different opinions, there is a radical wing in the government, there are ultra-nationalists who demand an end, well, victoriously, of course, the end of the war in gaza, then the war in lebanon, then it will be iran's turn . there is netanyahu who is trying to hold on to power, which is being pressured by the ultra-orthodox and, accordingly, the ultra-right, well , there is a society that is a little removed from the shock of october 7 and is trying to ask some questions of the government, so there is no clear agenda either, well, i am silent about the pressure on the part of the united states of america, which...

gives weapons and money with one hand and oppresses with the other. thank you, mr. igor. ihor semivalas, director of the center for middle eastern studies, was on the air, now we will literally take a break. for a few minutes, but you don't tune out we still have an interesting dialogue to come hopefully try flabodia 600 pink french pills for acute hemorrhoids 600 cure hemorrhoids without any oops champions league semi-finals only on megogo europe's top four teams and only two places in the final bayern real . and borussia pszh turn on on april 30 and may 1 exclusively on megogo there are 20% discounts on vizyn in the pharmacies of psyllanyk bam and oskad. have you never seen a classic in underwear or something? i wrote a children's poem here, will you listen? the tractor in the field

dir-dir-dir, why did we freeze? in fresh issue of the magazine. ukraine, whether it will be possible to operate zas after its release, says energy expert olga kosharna. exclusive interview with valery peker. what should ukrainians prepare for after the war? which of the heads of regional centers earns the most? more details in the disclosures section. read about these and other important topics in krania magazine. the new release is already at the points of sale. there are discounts on alysitsy and'. sedmax 15% in pharmacies plantain, you and save. every week, maria gurska meets with the head of the committee on foreign affairs

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to start negotiations on joining the eu. vitaly portnikov and the guests of the project, we are bored, that's why that there is nothing to fight about. let's make it up. they help to understand the present. and to predict the future for the world, a second trump presidency will be dire. a project for those who care and think. political club. every sunday at 20:10 at espresso. we continue the saturday political club. and we 're back after a short break. we have 50 minutes to chat with vitaly portnikov. actually, on several of the most important topics. this week, so, mr. vitaly, we have already started talking, in principle with valery chaly, regarding this agreement or agreements, which were published in the dievelt newspaper, yes,

i would still like to discuss it with you and really understand what it was, it really was, conditionally speaking, some kind of draft project, yes or it was... conditionally speaking, some kind of russian throw , and whether in principle this was possible in 2002, and whether it is important, perhaps in principle. and now look, in order to discuss all these projects, we need to understand how russia generally views the former soviet republics, how it generally views the negotiation process between them? russia considers the former soviet republics by countries with conditional sovereignty, that is, in fact, the territories of russia itself, which for inexplicable reasons withdrew from russia with the help of the west, which... sooner or later must be returned, but by and large, i don't know if you watched this

series , who filmed the anti-corruption fund about the 90s, so there are no chekists in this seminar series, which by and large believed that after the communist party of the soviet union ceased to exist, i'm sorry, i 'm going so far, they have take over power in the country and... by and large, in the period from 1991 to 2001, they not only completely took over this power, but also consolidated it, but they never intended to rule only in the russian federation, because they always believed that this was the state security committee of the soviet union, of course, in this situation , they believe that they should rule the entire state, the one ruled by the communist party of the soviet union, they feel cheated, they had such a great plan to destroy the communist party apparatus. come to power, have to create a market the economy is such that they can take all the money for themselves

through their avatars, the so-called russian oligarchs, as a result, they have only part of the territory, and they also lost part of the territory in europe, well, the territory from which it was possible to scare the europeans, to do such things to them, you know, round eyes, well , by and large, they've been around since 2001, notice that. they started a whole cascade of special operations in order to get their hands on it. chain mail, ugh, whatever the story is about the supply of ukrainian weapons to iraq, nothing has been proven, it finally isolated the president kuchma, do you remember when even the president of the united states did not want to sit next to him at the table. yanukovych, in order to ... bring his agent to power in kyiv in the fourth year, then in the 10th year, then in

the 13th year to disrupt the association agreement, the annexation of crimea, well, we know all this, so how can the idea of, well, how to say, agreements with such a country, is very simple, it is necessary to prepare such documents that will lead to destabilization of the situation. and will help to get rid of the power that does not want make necessary compromises. so remember how leonid kuchma's rule ended in 2004 . he signed an agreement on a common economic space with russia, belarus, and kazakhstan. in fact, ukraine already had one foot there. it was the final. why did leonid kuchmo sign this agreement? because there was a successful special operation to isolate him in the west. he understood. that he will not be able to pursue a pro-western course, and, by the way, here i completely agree with you that the early kuchma and the late

kuchma, that is, the early one, kuchma in the middle and the very late kuchma, who was moving away from russia, went west, maneuvered, and then came to the kremlin again, but this is all thanks to the special operations of the evil-doers, if it were not for the maidan of 2004, i assure you, we would have been like belarus a long time ago, fine. this is one, one illustration of the deal. now let's remember the minsk agreement. the minsk agreements were our last, such a moment of resistance to this russian attempt to destroy our subjectivity, because ukraine did not sign these agreements. there, the same kuchma, who did not hold any positions, signed again with representatives of the official bodies of russia, there with the ambassador of russia, from... then there was this protocol with representatives of the occupied territories, but no ukrainian official, because

it is obvious that president poroshenko was aware of all the consequences of the fact that he would sign with a certain zakharchenko and platnytskyi, they did not sign all these documents , it is not as if it were a document on the regulation of relations in ukraine itself with people whose legitimacy ukraine does not recognize. but do you remember the destabilization of the situation after the minsk agreements? yes, actually, then it's not easy. they tried to split the mobilization then ukrainian society and let's remember these protest actions, there were a lot of different kinds of movements that came out, so against, against the minsk agreements and... and we must understand that in principle, this could also, conditionally speaking, have been provoked by russia itself, from inside the country, they didn't even need to provoke anyone specifically, they understood that the fact itself would already create a certain instability in the ukrainian government, it's just that then the political forces that were after the maidan did not

want to go to a tough confrontation, just saved the situation, by and large there could have been something like that before... now let's look further: 2019 zelensky meets putin in paris, what starts after that? kozak becomes the curator of this ukrainian direction, and kozik tries to drag our country into one trap after another. this, as it was called, the coordination council, with representatives of the ordlo, which was proposed by kozak, and which yermak agreed to, and this, by the way, is the only one. the document is official, where there is a signature of a representative of the real ukrainian leadership with their representatives occupied territories, it happened once, but again, there was such a sharp resistance that the president's office realized that this was a diplomatic mistake, refused to continue this process, and he did not go, but if there was no resistance, or, let's say , and if the opposition would have been stronger, more serious, if the authorities had not

given up on this idea of ​​theirs, would have tried to defend it, you see, and it would have been a clinch. conflict with the patriotic part of society, yes, they calmed down, no, they then proposed a military inspection of the ukrainian the army from naro with the corps of the lpr of the so-called, that is , as if you have an army and they have an army, and it almost almost happened there at some stage , they simply gave up on it, well, by the way, let's remember including and this is the so-called disarmament, yes, which, by the way, was also offered to ukraine, and even there some things were related to it. allegedly implemented, not even allegedly, in some areas were implemented, and this was also in principle one, was one of these postulates, so to speak, which you are talking about, of course, now we look in 2022, the war has already begun, the russian army is already in the north, already in the east, they are advancing, but the ukrainian leadership

continues to work and is perceived by the population as legitimate, which protects the country from. what needs to be done to make the attack successful? it is necessary to destroy the leadership and destroy the mutual understanding between society and the government, and between the government and the military, so we need some kind of document that will help with this, the whole document is drawn up in such a way that later you can say, see, they gave up ukrainian lands, we defended, blood was spilled, and they gave crimea to them, gave it, they agreed that we would not have control over... they agreed with the fact that russian would be the state language, maybe they came to the authorities specifically for this to revise all the assets of the maidan, that is , they specifically did all this in order to try to completely destabilize the situation and thus reach kyiv more easily. do you remember that in the first days of the war, putin

addressed the ukrainian military and said: you should overthrow this government, we it's much easier for you to... let's say, this was part of this whole plan, it didn't work out, it didn't work out, and then the only thing they could do was to create certain information emissions in order to destabilize the situation again, and that's all it's not the end yet, the chinese offers are also part of this trap, by the way, we 'll get to that later, after all, you're clarifying here. the question of whether it was necessary then to conduct negotiations with the russian federation even at a possibly not very official level, let's talk about those the first two months, well, you understand that if the russian federation was ready for negotiations, and they declared that they were ready to talk

and meet, and the ukrainian side would say, no, you know, we will not talk to them, no matter what looked in the eyes of our allies? who generally believe that any conflict should end with negotiations, after these negotiations took place, after the west saw that the russians did not want anything constructive, the west could say to itself with a light heart: yes, we have entered into long-term conflict, we have to confront russia, we have to help ukraine, we have exhausted all possibilities of settlement, and if we had not exhausted, then what would our neighbors in europe and the united states say to us about this, listen, you... were offered to negotiate , you didn't even listen to what they wanted, and you were in a good military position when they stretched the front there, they were there ready to leave from the north, and why didn't you talk to them, what would we say, so you didn't will not talk could not, question in so what to talk about and how to talk, you know, because if you agree to the result, which creates you there in a small

army and does not give you any security guarantees, you know, demilitarization with a neutral status, this is actually a recipe for death, and do you remember that at that time the adviser to the president, the office of the president of ukraine, named orystovych, said that the war had started because there is an article about nato in our constitution. but if we did not have an article about nato, then of course no one would attack us, because we are no threat to the russian federation was not formed, and this was also a political course that a huge part of society understood, understood that maybe we are insulting putin, maybe we somehow do not take into account his concerns about security, and that is what many people in the west still say, you who serves russian political interests, and the fact that russia somehow did not attack finland. after finland really, you know, really joined nato. after all, we must always remember that the nato integration of ukraine and georgia is a phantom. nobody still us

did not even invite, and if there was no war, no one would have invited. and integration into nato, finland, sweden is a reality. it happened. well , the president of finland called the president of russia. when finland decided to join the. and you know, mr. president, we are joining nato here, and on the other side of the wire, i have no idea why you are calling me, what am i here to join and join yourself, that is, it is absolutely obvious that this is not a reason, but an excuse. russia did nothing at all, after finland joined the nato. the finnish-russian border is longer than the russian-ukrainian border. they didn't even increase the number of troops there, they didn't create any missile orbits there. that's how the znato border increased, and the question always arises, why is the border in the east so important than the border in the west, they

talked all the time about this flight time, remember, the flight time of missiles, if russia allows ukraine to be in nato, the time of flight of missiles, from someone there in kharkov, ugh, the time of flight of missiles can be learned from stalin, or from the finnish-russian one? the border, which is within reach, in fact, it will even be much shorter, not that much, but first of all, there are realities, the troops of finland really stood near st. petersburg during the second world war, but the ukrainians who will reach belgorod or kursk are phantom. and the finnish troops that were on the territory of russia, the soviet union, is historical. fact, then why are you not confused by this, in general, from the word at all, and if ukraine is a member of nato, russia will have to buy everything for itself,

that they are white paws there and will rebel on the nearest cemetery, we understand how stupid all this is, but i will tell you what the difference is, from where the attack is being prepared, as comrade lukashenko says, because for russia, finland is a real state, it really won this right for itself, and again won this right. that not only vouched for russia, but stood near leningrad during the second world war, they began to respect it as a subject, and ukraine is not a state at all, but a series of russian regions united in an incomprehensible subjectivity, everything and us you need to realize it, it seems to me, huge a number of our compatriots simply cannot understand this, and they never could understand this, i tried to explain it all the time, understand that the people who lived in... russia, throughout the entire existence of the soviet union , considered russia itself to be the soviet union, and people, who lived in soviet ukraine believed that they lived in the soviet union, and most

of them, you who lived in the eastern and southern lands of our country, even considered the soviet union their homeland, but they believed that it was ukraine, not russia, soviet ukraine, but not russia, and this is an absolutely different formed mentality, there is no way out of it, there is no need to nurture illusions. and to believe that the identity of russians in relation to ukraine will change, at least during the lifetime of those who watch this program, their children and grandchildren, it will not change, b, russians, as they believed, still believe and will consider ukraine an integral part of the russian state , full stop, it means that what can we do in this situation, unless we are given the opportunity to seize this country, there is no other option, can we negotiate with them, the answer is negative, no, can we convince them that ukraine is... russia, no, we can't and we don't, because it's not our task, let them rewrite the history textbooks for themselves, which, by the way, are completely falsified and invented since karamzin's time, it didn't start now. it

started during the time of alexey mykhailovych, i’m sorry, so we just have to increase the price of aggression for the russians, so that they think, yes, this is russian land, kyiv, kharkiv and odesa are russian cities, russians live there, they have speak russian language, but if we go there, we will die, there will be a conflict with the west, a nuclear war, moscow will turn into an image of a novel. bulgakov will simply burn down, but if they think like that, by the way, about moscow, not about belgrade, if belgrade burns, not a single one, i would say, not even a cat in russia will lead the tail, but moscow, oh, here she is, oh , god forbid, not a single crown should fall from this cathedral, st. basil's cathedral, which, by the way, was built in honor of the destruction of the cauldron, it is not for nothing that it stands there, so...

by and large, this is our task, others we have no problems, we have no other way out, some kind of timeline, what can we say, it will end in the 20-30s, we do not know when, the whole life of modern ukrainians, their children, can continue in various forms of low intensity, of high intensity, let's join nato, it will end, all these negotiations are just a hoax, a hoax with the aim of destabilizing ukrainian society and joining. territory of ukraine to russia, period, and this must be clearly understood. i admit that there will even be some negotiation process, but it will end in success, only if russia succeeds in laying these traps in peace agreements. moreover, mr. vitaly, we must understand that in reality it is not about putin, as some people think, because some people think, conditionally speaking, that it is about putin, what is here, that there is essentially only putin,

so to speak , allegedly... and is the personification of this evil, and i always say that no, in fact, the matter is far from putin, the matter is in russia itself, in the concept of its existence, in the historical roots of its existence, in its imperial and neo-imperial politics, and in reality putin will be there tomorrow or not or not there will be putin tomorrow, the situation is unlikely to change in russia, we must understand that the system that exists today is what it should be. or dismantled completely, that is, this state entity in its current form must be dismantled, or there will be a conditionally new putin, whatever his last name is? well, look, we, the historical experience of russia's development suggests that the russian government can be reformatted, but realistically speaking, there may be a moment when russia is focused on its own problems, when it is not interested in external affairs world, or there is no power to influence it, there is always a window of opportunity, but for us there was

a window of opportunity, it was... very simple, it was called the years 1991-2001, relatively speaking, from puccio on august 24, 1991 until the end of the war in the caucasus, here is the window of opportunity, how we used it, well, except that we declared independence, all subsequent decisions were one after the other absolutely failures, failures, we did not... became part of the north atlantic alliance, we did not want to get closer to nato, moreover, the vast majority ours with you contemporaries were opponents of euro-atlantic integration, even in 2004, when yushchenko came to power, when time was already wasted, to be honest, people were still against it, if in georgia they were in favor, there was also wasted time, but they were in favor and here they were still against it, it must be remembered that the vast majority of residents

destroyed it. today, the cities and towns of eastern ukraine have been voting for pro-russian populist forces for decades, this is a lost time for the entire nation. and now let's see what our neighbors, who we are now, have done we complain that they do not help us enough, precisely in this window of opportunity. central europe and the baltic countries, they joined nato, they joined the european union, they housed western military bases. poland can now speak. about the fact that it is ready to host american nuclear weapons, respectively , russian provocations in belarus, that is , the european nations lived this window of opportunity as it should have been lived, the ukrainians lived this window of opportunity completely incompetently, and again, about this they said in the 90s, it’s not like i would say it now, i wrote it for every independence day, they didn’t pass the film test, they didn’t get into the studio, they didn’t fulfill, they don’t fulfill

the decalogue, i’m just... it’s embarrassing to say things that were understood by everyone.