in 15 minutes, thank you, mr. vadim, for finding time for us, thank you very much for doing it on sunday, exactly, my question, my question is this, we once even talked about it with you, that actually the negotiations between ukraine and russia on at the intelligence level, at the diplomatic level, they've never stopped, as far as that's true with the... looking at the fact that we're looking at the switzerland summit, we're seeing in qatar the advisers meeting about the summit, it's just when even the advisers are meeting, it's not me , and i explain to the audience, it should be anyway the preparatory process, so someone has to talk to someone anyway and who is it, well, usually intelligence does it, well, maybe diplomacy, which is also not far from intelligence, am i right, are there any direct contacts, i mean colonel to colonel there . there

is a general with a general and so on, tell me your point of view, please, they are happening, contacts are happening, but it is not about the end of the war and not about strategic goals, mainly these are tactical goals, if it is on the battlefield, well, for example, theoretically we can say, that the military can agree after such a very brutal battle, well, for example, there within two minutes to take the bodies for the soldiers, it can be, the second... the story consists in the fact that gur is leading the process of exchange of prisoners in our country, so these contacts also take place, and contacts take place without a direct link between, respectively , colonels and colonels can communicate calmly, as for political contacts, they mainly take place now through intermediaries, it can be as intermediaries. as well as diplomat mediators, v

that role is now mostly played by diplomats, although the united states uses a relatively new tool, intelligence diplomacy, because ex-diplomat william burns headed the cia, the central intelligence agency, so he tries to use his previous career to try to get information that he available at your new place of service. during the negotiations, how well he succeeds, we will find out a little later, when he writes another book, but not yet, but i emphasize that for example, the head of the turkish foreign ministry, this is a long-term, experienced head of the turkish secret service mit, so in this world you never know if he is negotiating as someone, as a diplomat, or under his cloak? something else,

that is why contacts can theoretically take place, because diplomats can be on duty in traditional cover institutions at the same time, spies can be there, in particular in russia, mr. minister, look, this is also a theoretical issue, purely theoretical, because i do not want to disclose secrets, maybe it is a secret, maybe not a secret, it's purely theoretical energy to me. say, hint that they are surprised that the intensive bombing of the energy system began in march, and they assume that maybe in december there was some kind of agreement between ukraine and russia, that the ukrainians had some kind of trump card and said, how will you hit our energy system, we will hit somewhere with something so unique that you will not have overflows and you will feel bad, then let's somehow in the winter we won't... change each

other's moods, this is theoretically possible, in general so and so, maybe through intermediaries, maybe in some other way, purely theoretically, theoretically, even practically, it happens, that is, any war, any war is not a total war, it’s just us as citizens of ukraine, it hurts us a lot, , when all aspects of our lives are harmed, people die, houses are destroyed, well, people suffer without light, doctors perform operations without light and the like, i will not describe all the suffering, but everyone suffers like this during war to varying degrees, but war is not a total war still limited, so the limitations of war are not necessarily agreed upon, they can be so-called tacit limitations, so in comparison, this is where the issue of escalation came from, that is, if you go beyond the limits of tacitly... agreed war, it is called

escalation, well yes in simpler terms, that is , you increase, how can we increase, or by expanding the territory, or by choosing targets that are... different in intensity and targets, that's why we see, basically, the russians are trying to take advantage of the possibility that they have long-range weapons when they do not want to ukraine was doing something, or they are directly talking about it, well, for example, putin said directly that this is your answer for the attack on our refineries there, for example, i don't want to say now that there is no need to hit the refinery, it is necessary. but how is this so-called escalating dominance, that is , you can hit the refinery, you will be hit on energy, you have to hit something else so that they will not be on energy next time, that is, when you play the so-called escalation game, or expanding territory, or

expanding goals, you have to think several steps ahead forward and at the same time care that the other, then you can dominate this escalating issue when you know that you have everything protected. or your losses will not be greater than the losses of the enemy, well, at least reputational, emotional, psychological or material. so it is obvious that putin is using this to deter the ukrainians from taking certain actions, presumably it could be in connection with long-range strikes, once the russians realized that we already have the sokol 3000, which can strike at 300 km, obviously he's trying to show that you they say... don't do it, because you will be worse, that's not all i can do, and moreover, we also see that the intensity of these blows is related to energy, because the main resource for the delivery of fast and practically it's impossible, well, missiles hit

stationary objects, they don't hit moving objects at a distance, ukrzaliznytsia performs a lot of logistical functions for the armed forces of ukraine, and obviously before delivery, when we had... hunger, and now we have to transport a lot at one time, obviously the infrastructure, which is on diesel locomotives, on diesel locomotives and on electric locomotives, is a completely different story, and by the way, the russians also have several sections of the railway, in crimea and the one they are building now through the donetsk region is not electrified, so diesel locomotives after that, in our ee... they fish there and the like, that is why it is such a war, it can resemble that of trying to dominate in the sphere of escalation, that is, to prevent the enemy from actions of a different nature, that is, because what could be the reason, well maybe this, maybe

something else, but contacts, escalation and deterrence do not always take place, either publicly or privately, well, in order to get what the enemy wants, it is convenient for him. to fight, then he wants to focus on this, or on this territory, or on these goals and not to prevent someone else from doing something else. and i also want to ask, i apologize to my colleagues, because we want to, i wanted to start, somehow i was pushed in another direction, and about moscow, the deputy minister was removed there, there are quite exotic reasons for removal, i like one of them very much, this.. . speculation at once i say clean water, i didn't hold a candle there, but i liked it, i broadcast it to everyone that while he was just stealing, let him steal, at the moment when it became clear that he was stealing not 50%, but 100%

for recovery , for example, the so-called restoration of mariupol, and 100% for what, he then somehow sends information to the ukrainians, the ukrainians are shooting there... he says, it's not me, it was bombed by the ukrainians, i built a beautiful nine-story building, but they mean, that's it, and now there's no house, and i put everything in my pocket, i liked it very much, very elegant, aesthetic like that, betrayal of the motherland, i would say russian, i think that there is a conspiracy version, that supposedly special services are fighting among themselves there and so on, no, i think that it is just the story that you say, she is banal. he really began to steal more than the state, well, than , as far as the task was concerned, i want to remind you that this deputy minister, in general, he has nothing to do with military service, he just

has nothing to do with it, he is purely a civilian a builder, almost a civilian builder, he worked for rosatami, building defense there, then became a deputy and... built such objects as, for example, patriot park, where they exhibit all the security conferences there, display supposedly trophy equipment and the like, which putin approved there and he headed it, he thought that it would protect him... it didn't protect him, but i want to emphasize that we know part of what he stole from the russian budget there and he did it right, it's good that he stole from the russian budget , in ukraine, it's cool, but why was one of its functions, which is not being talked about now, it was a function of circumventing sanctions on large, on the purchase of large objects, for example, mr. ivanov is involved in the purchase in 2015 of two ferries through... a kongku offshore company for which , when there was no bridge, they transported both

military cargo and civilian cargo, provided the so-called sea bridge between occupied crimea and the taman peninsula of russia, and these two ferries were bought through dubious schemes to circumvent sanctions, circumvent the opposition of western countries, and he was also involved in the supply of buildings . them machines, certain equipment and the like, that is, he is a schemer, i'm sorry for the slang, but it just reflects the essence of this person, he was needed, but when dark schemes are used, to some extent it turns out that of these schemes he is actually a lot and not only he, there is a whole galaxy of russian officials, greatly enriched themselves on this, at the same time showing the eyes of a naked party. well, approximately in the performance there of three consecutive wives of mr. ivanov, all of

them social lvivts, social parties, expensive champagne, expensive hotels, the cote d'azur france in 2018, that's why it's such an irritant for putin, he scolded everyone there for the naked party, you know, yes, here the minister who stole the money is also doing the same thing, and it turned out that, as you said, he stole not 20%, but 60, and maybe all 80, so i think there are two reasons, although not well-wishers of the so-called or ill-wishers in russia, there are enough from various special services, the time came when discontent exceeded usefulness and a team of them was dedicated, roughly speaking, mr. vadim, the last question is very theoretical, just to clarify, i literally read about algorithmic warfare a day or two ago, and i... was shocked that it just said that there is no such thing in russia,

there is no such thing in china, i will explain for the audience, it is a combination of all different reconnaissance, and on the battlefield, and eavesdropping, and space, and all uavs, and sea, in short, all this mass of information is collected and gets into such and such a headquarters apartment called a pit, somewhere in the territory of europe this pit is located. and russia, everything that happens, everything that happens, the europeans know, the americans know, even a little bit we are given options, including the fact that you can call the enemy who is sitting across from you, there is some general, you are a general and he, well, if you can use this hole, you can just hello, so you there mind now i won't step on you, and when i don't say goodbye to you and hang up and this... and this is just some new, new, new, new war, is there such a thing,

is it true, and and and or it's true, everything i told, yes, very quickly and partially, it's true, there really is a so-called system, it called intelligence reconnaissance, which collects information on the battlefield, well, or around the battlefield, on the operational space, these planes, there dachas... a collection of information, but also strategic intelligence, which in real time is not of great importance, well, for example, putin's intentions there about the month of october to hold the brics summit there and who to invite there, so these are different things, such intelligence is combined from all sensors of uavs, space satellites from space, and indeed it exists, it is combined, the speed of data transmission, the security of the system, processing speed, a as well as command and control, this... since we have the advantages that modern armies have, and unfortunately, many people say that we are already in nato,

our armed forces, this is not true, we do not have any means, no technology, no english language and so on, but i hope that it will reach the ukrainian army more and more, but there is such a system, it is impossible to intercept and call so easily, unfortunately, the russians have protected systems, although not in baofen and ordinary soldiers, that’s why they also have companions, unfortunately, thank you very much, chernysh, the leader center for security studies sens of the minister of ukraine on temporarily occupied territories and internally displaced persons 16-19 years old, i will just add literally that the americans allegedly put artificial ones there. intelligence, and now it seems that we can expect that nato will know not only the current situation, but also the most profitable steps to take next. pleasantly. yes, done with it. oleksandr pavlichenko, lawyer, executor, executive director of the ukrainian helsinki union of human affairs.

and for more than 10 years he headed the diplomatic office establishment of the information bureau of the council of europe. to ukraine, good health, mr. oleksandr, thank you for finding time to visit us, mr. mykola, on sunday, and here's what i want to ask you, i am very impressed by these, so to speak, conversations about compliance or non-compliance with the constitution regarding the mobilization of ukrainian citizens, are there really gaps, yes, i am trying very hard to both. and indeed, the ukrainian government violates, or at least partially violates , the constitution when it says: let's do this, we will carry out mobilization in this way, then we will talk about demobilization one day, but now about mobilization, please, mr. oleksandr, a good question is rather put to the judges of the constitutional court in the order

of their execution of the proceedings, according to such a request, i think that... it is quite likely that if there are brave people who turn to the constitutional court, having prepared the documents accordingly, we will then be able to analyze how constitutional this decision is, although there are all the restrictions, burdens associated with the state of wartime, in relation to today's vision of a possible violation, then... above all here several positions can be given, which can be said at once, this is a question of discriminatory, non-discriminatory application of this legislation, when all those who are abroad, male between the ages of 18 and 60, are automatically considered to be,

well, guilty and under... restriction, automatic restriction only because of one's age and belonging to the male gender, this is a discriminatory approach, and actually this already constitutes a violation of the constitution, we are also talking about other possible aspects, well , in particular, the right is enshrined in the same 33 articles, the right of citizens of ukraine, which cannot be alienated without... harm to return home, here the ministry of foreign affairs will say: we do not forbid anyone to return home, please, we even encourage everyone to return, but there is a key word here at any time, that is , you can return right now, let's say, the ministry of foreign affairs also wants this, and you can in a year or two years, this is

anytime, it also has its own meaning, so in short, we can say about... the fact that this process, which actually and apparently above all, all those who are abroad male, in this, let's say, in this age category, 18-60, and put such a position that they are forced to prove that they have passed someone. passed, someone does not even have to go through the appropriate procedure for verifying the personal data of a conscript, the same question is the legality of these actions today, that is, what is happening, although we already have a resolution of the cabinet of ministers, but

also the question of absence at the legal level settlement of all this. procedure that could be carried out in the so-called to the electronic cabinet of a military conscript due to action, again, how will it work and what will be the procedure, how will it be provided by law, another question, that is , there is none of this, and this is proposed as, say, a corridor for a solution, one of ways, apart from the fact that the person must return to ukraine, go through, accordingly... the procedure for reconciliation of his personal data, or check, or it is cnap, maybe, that is, in fact. today , the situation seems to be surrounded by more questions than concrete answers, and that's exactly the case with me

i have another question for you, and theoretically, at least theoretically, i am already talking about practically, it is possible to walk between force and charybdis, somehow it would be possible to normalize it here on the shore, adopting a draft law and transforming it into laws, but i... i just it is difficult for me to imagine how it is possible to do both this and that, and people, and provide the army with people, and somehow invite them to ukraine, for example, there are about 650 thousand of them there now in this age of conscription in europe and say: come home and and for them to come, for all to smile at each other, this is in principle theoretical, at least possible, because i have the impression that there are no violations, because war is... a complete violation, but it is also war, which violates the rules of peace, and now we have whether it is possible or impossible,

mr. oleksandr , sorry, i think you know the answer to that question, it's a rhetorical question, judging by the smile, you already know, the question, i think, should have been asked two years ago, because the question is overripe, and it's a problem. .. how to mobilize those abroad while continuing to act as as it works today, here is the ukrainian government, the borders are closed, first of all, this is a big problem, because some of those, as you say, in fact, are 436, not 650, men who should have gone through this procedure, there are animals somewhere personal data, then part of these 436 thousand could... come, if they knew that they could just as easily leave the territory of ukraine, come, leave, come, leave, it would be tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, but

in fact, there is no such thing, because he is worried that he will not have it when he goes to ukraine were able to officially leave, not officially they did not leave, for example, so the answer to this question is how ukraine should motivate... to come here, let's say, and become one of those who are on the military register obliged to appear for call and appear, for example, to a shopping center or to pass a vlc, this is a good question, even if there is a reconciliation of these personal data, then the questions are not removed here, a person who is, well, conditionally in poland, in singapore or in berlin or in some other city she will receive a summons in the electronic cabinet, being right here, and having a ukrainian document, to what extent is

there a chance and guarantee that this person will appear and after how much and after what time interval in ukraine, in the appropriate place where he should appear, i.e. here the question also remains open, it is not resolved in any way, and even if, for example, these persons, well... 436 650 does not matter, goes through this procedure of electronic oleksand, we will redial you now , sorry mr. oleksandr, now let's redial you, you somehow mean a lot to us it is important to listen to you, but we cannot listen to you due to technical problems, we are now redoing, and we hope that you will explain better, convey your thoughts to the ukrainian public, which is interested in the topic. we are mobilizing quite actively, let 's talk about it, let's talk about whether it was possible to make better conditions for people in

ukrainian consulates in europe and around the world, this is also a question, we were showing footage of people gathering near the consulates, here we see these footage, we see that these are really huge queues and and and and and the waiting room is even there written well, people are waiting, this is a waiting room, we don't know what they are waiting for, but i think that in time we will understand what is happening. so, oleksandr pavlichenko, the law enforcer, appears before us again, thank you, mr. oleksandr. so, now we, we understood that it is impossible to do perfectly, because there is nothing perfect in the world, except our conversation with you, definitely, our conversation, ours with you is the only one in the world. ideal, that is, but it was possible in advance, that is , the system is simply not ready, but when we now showed these crowds of people near the consulates in

europe, i understand that... simply the ministry of foreign affairs, the consular departments were simply not ready, and it was as unexpected for them as it was for all the people standing in the queues, i understand correctly that here it was possible to expand the situation in such a way that there would be gradualism and that there would not be that crowd and those inconveniences, the first issue is communication, the situation is not that it is under-communicated, it is just... done in such a way that the purpose of the actions on the part becomes unclear in general state authorities, well, first of all, it is the ministry of foreign affairs, which, accordingly, represents the state abroad. if the goal is to return a large number of male persons who are abroad, that is, this is a mobilization reserve that is very

necessary for ukraine. then there is a big question here, whether the method that was proposed will be an incentive, firstly, secondly, a positive incentive for a number of this large, let's say statistically large group of men who are abroad to appear in ukraine, the answer here is unambiguous: if we count there either 436 or 650, as you indicated, then we can... to believe that even tens of thousands will not come to ukraine to replenish the ranks of, let's say, the ranks of conscripts who will be summoned by summons to pass through the tsk, vlk, and this is a problem, a problem that actually poses another problem, this is the attitude of... . on the part of these

people to the state, which puts them in such a position, and their future existence abroad in general, that is, they determine their further actions in view of the fact that the state puts them in such a position. accordingly, here we say that on the one hand they have a military the duty to protect the state, especially when it comes to... the general threat to the survival of the state, we are now talking about whether ukraine will be or not, we know and hope that it will happen, but for this it is necessary for everyone to make an effort and to accordingly , everyone was mobilized as much as possible for the defense of ukraine, but in addition to these words, resources are also needed, people are needed who should work every day, every week for the defense of ukraine, and how to mobilize.

this reserve, which is outside the borders of ukraine, will these men, who are outside the borders of ukraine, be real a mobilization reserve that can serve in the armed forces, or help through volunteering, some kind of financial assistance to ukraine in another way, will this contact with them, will they be part of the mobilization asset of, say, ukraine, which... will be like in the united states of america , for example, in washington, there were constant demonstrations, there were demonstrations in front of government structures, i can’t anymore with us now, now we have to move on to another topic, excuse me, please oleksandr pavlichenko, lawyer, executive director of the ukrainian of the helsinki union of human affairs, was with us, i'm sorry again, well, i still can't count it, because there are 40 million people, of which

approximately 20 million are men, of which approximately 10 million are 18.60, that is, aged, and we looking for 430 00, and we have 10, okay, eight, okay, seven, okay, 5 million people who can potentially do whatever, whatever, the rest of the people who are on the front lines, see what i'm about to tell you , i want to tell you that anna eva melnyk, whom you see very often and she reads the news, interviewed such stars of stars czech hockey goalkeeper, olympic champion dominik hasik, who played under the number 68 all his life, as far as i remember, maybe i'm confusing something, but he is exactly this number, the 68th year, when the soviet troops entered prague, and there were huge, or rather the occupation of czechoslovakia at that time, so she interviewed annaev about athletes and the participation of these athletes in

competitions. international, it will take about 10.