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presenters, who have become like relatives to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio. events of the day in two hours. vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people. espresso in the evening. we continue the politclub program on the espresso tv channel. vitaliy portnikov is with you, and roman tsymbalyuk, a journalist and former correspondent of the union agency of russia, is in touch with us. congratulations mr. roman! at the customs office, which he controlled, but then who controlled whom, at the customs office, and now i can’t hear you, hello-hello, yes, we entered into some conspiratorial conversation, as usual, but not heard her unfortunately vitalia you hear me i heard you and you me yes i heard you even when you thought i didn't hear you yeah well we're in touch , let's talk about how to control. and moderate

our future ourselves. so, in the russian federation, the deputy minister of defense of russia, timur ivanov, one of the most senior leaders of the ministry, was arrested, and here is your version of what is really happening there around this arrest, because unlike these other events, this is a high-profile arrest, in fact, a serious figure , the person who was responsible for everything, i would say, material and technical. maintenance of the ministry of defense of the federation, and his corruption has been written about by all anti-corruptionists in russia for years, the western media, the fact that he is corrupt, it seems to me, there, i don’t know, who did not know, it seems to me, even the house cleaner ivanova and the house cleaner those anti-corruption officers who did the investigation knew that they were corrupt, well , now putin found out about it, why did he become interested, the main thing here is that all the cleaners in those and others. were not the same

people who work for the relevant bodies, well , that also happens and, yes, vitaly, i think that you and i are of the same opinion here, well, of course, this topic is important in terms of studying the enemy, but still still, it should be emphasized that this will not affect the course of the war, and it is not the corrupt officials who determine the course of this war, although of course i think people are women. those who buy diamonds, apartments and planes like them much more than those who buy tanks for their army, and everything that threatens, threatens what happened to us, well, it seems to me that this is such, you know, such a period when vladimir putin lets blood so that everyone knows that he is the main one, and how is the person who is to be let blood determined, well, here it is either he eats... or those who

are whispering something in his ears, i mean vladimir putin, and here this timur and his team, after all, they are such hedanists with a capital letter g, they love life and emphasize it in every way, and i don’t know, the conditions on the front and the living conditions of this person, they are of course very different, there is also... a logical version, that this same ivanov, he, he, he is primarily responsible for military construction, this is all the territories, property, barracks, well, they build in the occupied territories, so, he, including, by order of shaigu, was responsible for the construction of this the temple, the ministry of defense, this is a black meeting of satan, and where the photo of hitler's defeat is exhibited as the main exhibit, yes, he is. was actually personally responsible for this, it

is clear, and there were relevant statements, they even explained something there, to which at some stage they were uncomfortable that they had a cap hitler in the temple. well, this person was responsible for this, and maybe some part of the anti-fascists is there, here we take the anti-fascists by the paws, of course, well, they struck a blow at this, someone thinks that they are digging under the shoiga, well, let's face it, there is corruption in the russian federation it is not some kind of shortcoming, for which punishment and removal of salvation or so on. but maybe this is a reason to remove shoigo with the company, it's just an army - it's a huge resource, not every one, i would say not just huge, all the fighters have states, and we, by the way, are not an exception in this regard, the main resources in the ministries

of defense, including ours, well, we generally have our western friends, but nevertheless, well, to think about the topic of whether putin will change ? shoigu or not, well, you can do whatever you want, but if from a political point of view, if he wanted to do it, he would have already done it, now they are advancing, in principle , russian television says that there will be some kind of victory, and shoigu in the extreme case, it is exactly what is needed for that, in case of something, it should be said to him that this is his, his, his there... in short, he will either be removed due to the rules at the front, which is unlikely, while the war is going on, or already before, i don't know, well there is an opinion that at some stage negotiations will begin anyway, and even then at this stage, at the moment, i do not see that

the puck is in any danger, they did not experience this, they experienced the shame of the 22nd year, all together with yerasimov, there were changes commanders of the lower of the lower ranks, but the majority remained, and this is not connected with the war personnel duels or how many of them are involved in this, well, it seems to me that when ukrainians are interested in this whole story, they are not so much concerned about how it is connected with the war, but how it is connected with the stability of the regime, you know, so which many see in all these clan games. in the russian federation, there are signs of a certain instability of the regime, well, they want to see it, i don’t know, i am not a supporter of this theory, first of all, in regimes of such, such a level, such, such a structure, everyone likes to speculate

on the topic that putin will be brought down , he is there dies, his mausoleums will be sent or something else, for now, everyone... who is currently in russian territory, there is no evidence that something has started to change in someone there, the population there is asking some questions, no one is asking anything, they have they pretend that nothing is happening, that is, they say that they are super there for the war, and well, some of them are for the war, most of them are so downcast, and the main thing is that it does not concern me, and therefore well... well such and such an approach, and it is actually very convenient here for the authorities, some, well the measures they pass are carried out there, well, this punitive mechanism, honed by the russian guard, the police, they don't even have anyone

to screw there anymore, navalny was killed, prisons were closed, his supporters were declared terrorists and very bad people there, and... from the very beginning, he immediately said that we should proceed from the fact that there is no need to think that there is a little more and something will break in them, and they will take care of themselves, and it will not affect the course of the war, and yet i it seems to be more of a competition in there between different groups, they are there... security forces compete primarily with each other , the ministry of internal affairs, the ministry of defense, and of course the fsb. by the way, about all this competition and so on. what do you think in general, when polish foreign minister radyslaw sikorski

says that putin will not be able to use nuclear weapons because the russian military might be against it and then they will get rid of putin, how realistic is that... if you want, a solution in russia, i would like to take it. did not reflect and did not calculate, the same radislav sikorsky, he says a lot, he also compares vladimir putin and hitler, but when we ask ourselves the question, would hitler, if he had nuclear weapons, would he have used them or not, but i probably still used the answer, i understand that now the western world is so careful, so a little bit so that ukraine does not fall, but also so that it does not happen there, i do not know there, but... the defeat of the russian federation, although they have resources, and they have missiles, and all this talk that they

did not have 155-caliber projectiles there, that is so it doesn’t happen like that, because in the nato armies, well, they are used to shooting not only from guns, you can always find military-technical solutions, but this is a precaution, i do not blame the approach here, their position is also clear, here there is a maniac, a pervert with a nuclear bomb with... a population that basically sings a very joyful song: "uncle vova, we are with you, in the last fight, blah blah blah." well, it has to do with this. well, when politicians say that he will not use something that will hinder him, the military, the weather, there, orsk drowned or something else something, well, it's somehow very risky, it's also experts, political scientists, journalists, even bloggers can be there in order to... uh, collect likes and subscriptions, they can say: no, by no means, we're not dead, or vice versa,

we are all dead, well, this is how this business works, but still the responsibility rests with the officials, it is a little different, and it seems to me that the western world should still help us in this way, based on the fact that all options are possible, well, your opinion, vitaly, i also think that it is necessary to proceed from the fact that everyone options... are possible, however, perhaps there are other safeguards, however, in addition to the russian generals, there is the position of the people's republic of china, there may be strategic uncertainty on the part of the west, and they somehow oppose this strategic uncertainty, but they could to advocate in such a situation with a nuclear attack, maybe it would be taken more seriously by putin, this is just a continuation of this part of our conversation about the fact that the west is so cautious, and they all go to china, and so

now scholz has left, and now antony blinkin, and i am convinced that everyone first of all asks the question, comrades, what is there, what kind of nuclear bomb is there, what is its condition, what do you think, of course we are competitors, but we want, i don’t know, to survive together, to survive, and in these models, as, no matter what, both china and the west. it's still a model of development, people want to make beautiful cars, they, they want to live, they want to wear glasses, they don't want to die, just go to heaven, i don't want to, and that's a reason for interaction, so again after all, by all indications a beijing has a colossal influence on moscow, no one disputes that, but... who said that this is a one hundred percent guarantee that comrade xi

controls putin, well, someone can give such a guarantee, i generally think that the relations between the russian federation and china , they were also different, and at some stage they may change again, at the moment it is, well, this is not the perspective of this, this, these, these schedules in different theaters of military operations, but nevertheless, that's why... i don't know, it seems to me, what exactly to the officials on this topic with it is necessary to work more with chinese friends and with arab friends, even more so, maybe even with african ones, well here the circle of people with whom vladimir putin communicates is actually quite narrow, it is not like that, there is not a whole hall, they really can now sit down together a long table and everyone will fit. thank you, mr. roman, roman tsymbalyuk, journalist. the former correspondent of the union agency of the russian federation was in touch with us, and now we will talk

about another country of the post-soviet space, about georgia. valery chichalashvili, georgian the diplomat, the former ambassador of georgia to ukraine, russia, moldova, was on our air, now he will be on our air. mr. valery, we welcome you, i congratulate you, it is very nice to be with you. thank you for the invitation. so, what is happening in general, explain to our viewers why in... the authorities in georgia decided to pass this infamous law on innoagents, although it is clearly not needed, it does not change the situation before the elections, at least for the worst. worst condition of european integration of georgia, what is happening, what is happening in the head of bidzina imanishvili? well, it's very difficult question, i am probably not the right expert, because i did not have the opportunity to communicate with mr. bidzina ivanishvili, but what is clear is that georgia is now plunged into another spiral

of violent confrontation, and this... the georgian dream did it, and what, what didn't she have a goal, this is also a very good, good question, the biggest goal of the georgian dream now is to win the parliamentary elections that will be held in georgia in october of this year, and apparently they... believe that, that in this way they assert their positions in the election process, because it is clear that this step is aimed at more polarization of our society, and we now have

such a situation that if, in addition to the georgian dream and... the parliament and... er, this polarization of society is being done more restructuring of the vote of the voters in favor of the first and second parties, so

maybe this is the opinion, but i must say that it is very... forces in the opposition to somehow at least stop this process? well, i say yes, very such people who have such a very high reputation in the society of georgia, this is the intelligentsia, and athletes, and the student movement, there are many, many such people who...

in various government positions, are mobilizing and they are moving, by the way, it will be interesting to see what administrative resource they have financial, because they will apply it in the election process as well, and it is

a very interesting element that the outgoing chairman is scheduled to speak tomorrow. georgian dream of mr. bezyn ivanishvili at this rally. we have not seen this for 12 years, but the situation is very difficult, because the day before the european one the parliament made a resolution calling for sanctions to be applied against the poor ivanishvili, and now the honorable gentleman has two such courses of action in his head, the first, he can...

so that yes, he, he must have sprung this trap, but, but he, and, he, and the georgian dream in general, they did not expect such a reaction from society and such a reaction, a very powerful reaction from our strategic pairs of partners from european capitals and brussels and washington, because they are made one after another, statements are very, very. .. such powerful statements from everyone capitals, and from washington too, and from brussels, i don't know, and now the european parliament is already

talking not only about sanctions, but also about suspending our status as a candidate country and the visa-free visa-free regime, which is a very... dangerous development for the development of events for the georgian dream, because visa-free travel is something that will shake the entire georgian society, and probably then it will be necessary to protect these 83 deputies of the georgian dream who gave their votes in the first reading, and on tuesday there will also be a second reading, let's see what what do you think will happen mr. valery, but ... as far as the role of russia in these events, it can be traced or, as usual, of course, vitaly, it can be traced simply because all the capitals, all our

strategic partners tell us, don't do it, it's not the european law is putin's russian law, only, then, such positive assessments are heard from moscow, they say that no, no, this is not a russian law. it is very good that georgians are now concerned about their independence, this is the sovereignty of georgia and so on, so it is clear to whom this law benefits and to whom it does not benefit, now it is a very, very simple situation: georgian society is all our strategic partners on one side of the barricades, and on the other side is the georgian dream, the georgian dream and... uh, the so-called experts whether it's the politicians or who is there or lavrov and piskov and solovyov and simonyan, i don't know who else, that's why,

when there is such a deviation of positions, i understand that it was some kind of influence, i think, because it is very much so. .. and tell me how you generally assess relations between kyiv and tbilisi right now this strange position of the georgian government in connection with the war in ukraine, because we expected a completely different position, well, vitaliy, i would say here that it is necessary to share the position of the georgian society and the georgian and georgian government, because here... i can to recall that in the 22nd and 23rd years, transfers from georgia to

ukraine, that is, ordinary residents, amounted to 40 and 35 million dollars, this determines that every citizen of georgia transferred. what, what are you, we are very proud that thousands of our citizens, thousands of our compatriots, are together with ukrainian brothers and sisters, now...

now they are fighting on the fronts of ukraine for your freedom and ours, but it is clear that the position of the georgian government deserves so much criticism, and it is not only that it is incompetent and unprofessional, that is why that russia is primarily a wreck and the wrecks of georgia too, it occupies. we lost the sound, it seems to me, mr. valery, if ukraine does not win, if ukraine does not win, uh, it will be very difficult for georgia to turn away its freedom and independence, and vice versa, on the contrary, if ukraine wins, and i hope so, i am sure, especially after this decision.

of the united states for 60 billion to 61 billion dollars, whatever ukraine, ukraine will win, and this will determine our joint victory, therefore , all of society, experts, as well as associations, understand the georgian dream, everyone criticizes the georgian dream for this, for this policy and exactly, exactly and the government too, and you can explain such an order. electoral , on the one hand, georgians support ukraine, and on the other hand, the same people vote for the georgian dream, which is obviously without much sympathizes with the situation, why it is the way it is, how it is happening in general, this is the question, this question in general applies not only in the politics of georgia to ukraine, but also in general

in the field of... in general, this is a question in the politics of the the foreign policy of the georgian dream in general, because this very issue also affects the direction of the european union, how georgians are the majority for european aspirations for european prospects and georgia, and why, why they vote for the georgian dream.

well and etc., then this is one question, and the second question is that after 2018, all the elections, that were in georgia, they were getting worse and worse, and this is said not only by our experts here in georgia, but also by european experts and others too, so it is very important that now... that now we do everything to that these elections in october of this year were competitive, fair and open, and this is also probably the goal of the georgian dream, by applying this law, to strengthen its influence on the information space and make more

comfortable conditions. for our own possible victory, victory in october, so we are waiting for, unfortunately, very difficult, very a difficult period is ahead, but georgian society will fight for the european aspirations and prospects of ukraine, and for our cooperation and friendship with our strategic partners, primarily with ukraine. i want to clarify, i understand correctly that this law will prevent, let's say, grants to some kind of financing, independent media, which still remain in cargo, not only, not only independent media, the fact is that we have very, very powerful such non-governmental organizations that supervise the electoral process, for example