our guests today are myroslav cheh, a deputy of the polish sejm, as well as the iconic ukrainian politician and diplomat roman bezsmertny. myroslav cech, a historian, publicist, deputy of the polish diet of the second term, will be working on the air of the tv channel. glory to ukraine, myroslava, congratulations. well, joseph biden made a decision, not just a decision, but a strategic decision, and here we understand that it is not only about money, an extremely large amount, it is about etaxems and that... the states were already on the alert, waiting the decision of the last, the last signature, the last signature in order to start restoring the normal supply of ammunition and further down the list, attacks with this is extremely important, it is not just about weapons, but about symbolic weapons and about the so-called red lines that were drawn on the kremlin's forehead. well, first of all, the attack camps, as the media reports or the media report, have a range of 100. up to 300 km,

the decision was made already in february, and they arrived in ukraine in march, and have already been used twice by the ukrainian armed forces for attacks, among others on to the airport in dzhankoi, that is very revealing, that is, we understand that atakams, they should be used only on the territory of ukraine, including, of course, the occupied territories, but this means that in the vast majority. will be used and in larger quantities, then this will mean that the russians in crimea will have a very, very bad time, which we can only be happy about. yes, but on the other hand, this does not cancel a large-scale war, so we understand that may, june, july will be extremely fierce, and here is the key story, if we take the medium-term strategic prospects of support for us from the european union and the united states, i.e. for... how far

will they be willing to go in brussels, in individual capitals, in particular in berlin, in paris and in washington? well, when determining how far they are willing to go, it is now necessary to listen to jens stoltenberg, the secretary general of nato, who stated that military targets on the territory of the russian federation, and not the occupied territories of ukraine, are legitimate targets for the armed forces of ukraine, i.e. everything from that s... the russian army on the territory of russia can be exposed to being the target of attacks from ukraine, this is a very far-reaching declaration that did not exist six months ago, as well as the statements of jens stoldenberg about and the decisions of nato member countries, about the military mission of nato , which should help ukraine. yes stoltenberg's statement, when it was not determined in america whether there would be aid or not , that... nato can take on

the entire burden of aid to ukraine, not the ramshteim format, which the americans immediately denied, we are the leaders here, but let's not move, but this meant only that the role of europe and the european members of nato is growing, which, in principle , through the mouths of macron, well, but the same should be said of donald tusk, and to a certain extent of jens stoltenberg, they stated that... what is may come in the future such a situation that the european members of nato will take over all the help to ukraine, which cannot please in the context of what we have seen for six months in america? yes, but in any case we understand that ensuring our defense is not only about money, it is anti-missile systems defense, these are the systems of the patriots, and we understand what is happening now, that is, the russians have shown their criminal. tactics,

that is, on the example of kharkiv, the same thing, that is, to completely cut off the city and then try to turn it into a wasteland, one patriot, one battery of patriots already, as i understand it, germany is transferring, it is greece and spain who have patriots, they wished for some strengthened guarantees of financial compensation from other nato member countries, and just one. one single battery it must be provided by the united states, so when it comes to the development and provision of patriots by patriots, it will be airplanes, i understand that the situation was complicated simply by the training of pilots, well , unfortunately, this process did not take place at the pace of ukrainians, conditionally mastering the haimars, which took place there for three weeks and are already ready there were haimars, with podlats, after all, from the f-16, it should continue for a long time, because they have prepared...

full-time pilots, this is 2.5 years, and in fact 5 years, here in ukraine it will take place in a year and there 3-4 months, that is, it started late, that's right. instead, it goes like this at an alarming rate, it is going at an alarming rate, but still slowly, so we understand that russia is training its troops, russia is preparing additional resources not only of manpower, yes, but technical resources, and we understand that russia has set itself the goal of a long war, a protracted war, and at the moment they are proactive, that is, they show aggression, as soon as we get atacoms, the situation may change, but in any case, everyone was. very worried when president macron started talking about a front line that could run along the dnieper, well accordingly, how the vision of what needs to be done and what our various allies, friends and so on will be ready to do has changed now.

intimidation by the fact that russia is armed to the teeth, and it is ready to reach the english channel, if there is no unification of nato and increased restoration of capabilities. it is already over, the situation at the front, as ukrainian experts and the military say, is not as tragic as it might seem, to them, i understand, with all my support and everything, all the feelings that can be expressed to the residents of kharkiv , which every day is a target, well, those terrorist attacks from russia, but to take such a city as kharkiv, this is what i understand... all military experts say that it would take several hundred thousandths of a thousand russian hordes, avdiivka was taken by a russian group, which numbered more than 80,000 soldiers, and it took them a few months there, and even in the raids themselves they say that

if there had been a supply earlier of shells, artillery shells, then the audiivka would never have been taken, even jack sullivan said so, and this we are guided by a dove, of peace and... has fallen and now it's about holding the front line, what i mean, it's a war of attrition now, in fact, the russians may think they're winning, but it's far from the case, because the americans have europeans as well, understanding several factors, first of all, he... well , by definition, russia cannot win at exhaustion, it is too weak, in a confrontation with nato, that is , the european union, the united states, canada. this is clear. moreover, the potential of europe itself both in the defense sphere and

in the military, already in the narrower sense, i.e. and planes, and artillery, and the armed forces themselves, the military and so on, can be opposed in russia. and russia would not mind a conditional attack against nato, it has been fighting against ukraine for more than 10 years. let's not forget that this is a war, the issue of the level of intensity of fighting, and now we see that the level of intensity is not decreasing, it is only gradually increasing, although it is simply hell in some areas of the front, well, it is, so, first of all, it is potential it is impossible to compare, russia will not win a war of attrition, this is, firstly, secondly, long-term perspectives. this the process began, the west switched its attention not only to the provision of weapons and money to ukraine, but also to the restoration of ukraine's economic potential and defense potential. now they are going, well, as i understand it, because some cases are secret, of course, but extensive work is underway to

restore the work of ukrainian defense factories, the production of shells and everything else from the performance of the american or. it can be understood that now america and europe will do everything to ensure that ukraine stands very firmly on its feet, so i am handing over to atakam i take into account, of course, that this is the repelling of russian planes, with cabs and so on, but in fact it is about crimea, about new russia, about the black sea fleet, that is , ensuring the safety of odessa and black sea ships so that ukraine has. but open to export, import, export of its products and import of products from the world, i.e., to be an economically capable state, the military goals now, as i understand it, are such that ukraine aligns the front line and acquires

the capabilities to inflict such losses on the russians that they will not be able to them to compensate, that's what all the military experts say now, the russians are mobilizing order somewhere. 30-400 military personnel are destroyed every month, somewhere around 25-30,000 are destroyed, and it is about making their losses greater than the possibilities. mobilization, and now it is about this, and the third factor, which we cannot omit absolutely, is that now the americans are already directly declaring, and secretary of state blinken went to pakin to talk to china and say this, friends, you have to make up your mind, or you support russia, then you will be sanctioned and with the full program you will have a problem, like those who support the aggressor, or you will curtail this aid, because i must... say, i did not know this figure, but it is impressive that 90% of machines before production

and barrels , and there are tanks, and shells and so on, supplied to russia by china, 70%, i don’t know, what other separate equipment is there, so joe biden spoke to sizim pinim, warned him that you are coming to a point where we will use against you of all means, and that's why the chancellor was... in may, he is going to come to paris, to talk, it will all be the day before the peace forum, that is exactly what we are approaching, what will the observers from beijing come to switzerland with, we understand that there will be no russians, they would rather be, well, maybe there would be belarusians of quality observers, and at the moment i do not have this information, in any case , the civilized western world will outline its... parameters, vision, not only peace formulas, but also readiness to support ukraine,

that is, the alignment of geopolitical clocks, what will happen in switzerland now? no, in switzerland it will be the event has been decided, the event has been decided, representatives of the so-called global south will come there. well, the only question is whether or not china will come. belarus is like that, with all due respect to belarus to the belarusian people, of course, china will come even as an observer, if not a participant. and so on, then the negotiations are going on, and china really stands at such a crossroads, whether it will be or not, instead it is about the global south, the principles on which a new world order can be established and a formula for ending the war in ukraine can be decided, it is already written, the formula is president zelensky's plan, where the first point is the observance of sovereignty and territorial integrity. integrity of all states, this is the first point, the rest

is secondary to this first point, and the first point will determine everything, that is why the russians are doing, standing on their ears conditionally, in order to torpedo this summit, because the summit, when you come and when you discuss the formula of president zelenskyi's peace plan, the first point is restoration, of course restoration in the borders of the year 91, in 2000. or there in the year 22, where they also grabbed the zaporizhia and kherson regions, that is , the russians, so everything will be determined here, either you stand on this side or these, and on the other side, and here it is impossible to stand like this, between yours and ours, the formula, china's formula, that you can be a mediator and go to ukraine for some territorial compromises, it is not effective, and it will not be, okay, well, but. .. we understand that it is possible to support ukraine, but germany strongly supports ukraine in this matter supply of tauruses, there is a certain line that the germans

do not want to cross. when we talk about aviation, we, we still talk about the f-16, not the f-35 and so on and so forth. we understand that the issue of delineating the framework is one story, and the readiness to adhere to and force russia to this or that peace formula is a little different, well, that is, on paper very often everything looks like that. very smoothly, but when we talk about coercing russia, anton, well, they have already arrived, the red lines have already been destroyed, those attacks are only 300 km away, well, taurus, of course, it would be good if they came, but this is not a reproach, it is just a demonstration that we can speak and call for one, but this must always be followed by very specific, sometimes harsh actions, of course, everyone must help ukraine, that's the point, well, there is the domestic situation of individual states, well... president

biden's return, it took half a year for the republicans to support this agreement, and it was, well, half and half, that really, how critical it was, what, what, what badge the president had biden, when he signed the agreement, when he signed these laws, the icon with with the flags of the united states... and ukraine, not israel, not taiwan, or with all of them, only with ukraine, because it was a cardinal question that played, well, played differently, trump, so what happened there? trump and johnson, played by vladimir vladimirovich putin, because he gave an interview in early february to carson, what he calls carson, tucker, carson, yes, tucker carson, gave an interview where he revealed that he deals cards in the american elections, and this is the american deep state prussia, the reaganites,

the republicans, because there are still such, moreover holding the head of the intelligence committee there. defense, it seems, and representatives of foreign affairs, they are such reagan hawks, so it was very much for them, not camillo, because vladimir vladimirovich came to say who the americans should elect as president, and also says, no, well, we, actually we, us it would be better if there was biden, well, these are not games like that with americans, well, that's why they were broken very much, and this breakdown, well, it happened so... so brilliantly, because once these trumpists managed to overthrow the speaker mccarthy for the first time in 240 years chambers representatives, which was simply an unheard of phenomenon, here the democrats made a mistake, of course, that they supported this proposal, not without foreseeing the consequences, well, and then their game with johnson began, that they would also

dislodge him from the speaker's chair, well, this it didn’t work, and they say... various factors played a role there, they say that the court hearings of trump himself showed him that this is not the case, it may be that he will not be a candidate, because when he will be, i heard such a version that donald trump understood, yes, that he has played his isolationist card and exhausted certain resources, so to speak, from his electoral sympathies, he needs to go to another field, that is, he should be, so to speak, a great ... person, and not a pro-russian figure , because the issue of russian aggression against ukraine is serious, even for american politics, so you think well of donald trump, i am a little worse than him, i just see the behavior of johnson, yes, that is, johnson, johnson, johnson, i think played, he really did wanted the republicans to preserve party unity, well, that didn't work out and he was

faced with such a thing, it's the same thing that stefanchuk would go against the decision of, for example, the president... so we understand that johnson is not by himself johnson the speaker of the congress, well he secured trump's support, and after that vote, trump said he was our good guy, that is, trump supported johnson, and you have to say yes, supported him, why, why, why, why, i think there was a very clear situation there and it with is based on such a very serious matter, that is, you get. access to all intelligence data, as the speaker of the house of representatives at the briefings almost presidential information, and it was written there in black and white, as i understand it, johnson himself simply said, this is no secret, he was told that if he did not support ukraine, then he had to to send our soldiers, our boys to europe, to protect nato, and then the responsibility of such a person who knew that

american boys would be sent to die and did not help. in ukraine, although ukraine is heroically resisting russian aggression, then the responsibility is punishment. ugh, in front of the american court, well, john trump is reprimanded for many cases, among others for january 6, 2020, is that true? nothing is forgotten, there the citizen goes to court and let's go, and then the parents of those boys who, for example, would have died in europe, because they had to be sent to some front in a probation... or in a probationary poland or in estonia, and then johnson would have been told, you dude, you had the opportunity to prevent my son from dying, and you did it? and what? yes, well, you yourself mentioned the story about the return of the boys, and accordingly we understand what ukrainian citizens are currently in the european union and in poland, in particular,

hundreds of thousands of millions of people, and accordingly , our ministry of foreign affairs is currently taking such initiatives. it was put forward, in particular, when it comes to the temporary non-provision of consular services until the law on mobilization comes into force, and accordingly, perhaps it would be worthwhile to come from the other side, to start one or another negotiations with individual capitals of the european union in order to help ukraine to return their sons home, somehow, well, but in any way in this case, the story caused a very heated discussion, that is, i do not know what to do with the non-provision of consular services, but if possible, there are mechanisms for return. perhaps it would be worth using them? well, of course there are mechanisms, i'm generally, well, i'm not a citizen of ukraine, but i'm generally surprised by the discussion about mobilization, but i 've been in ukraine a little and i feel it. the mood of society in the half or second half of last year, there were no such moods that people, let's say, did not understand that it would be necessary to mobilize, well, they understood that there is a state, its

needs, some have been at the front for two years already, and reserves are needed, well, everything is clear, instead , a political game began around the problem of mobilization, and it was a parallel game, you like conspiracy theories, it should be followed, everyone likes conspiracy theories, why.. . mobilization, which was not on the agenda of discussion by ukrainians, because there was full confidence in the armed forces of ukraine, and in the future there is no reason why it did not fall in parallel with all the problems with the supply of weapons, military aid to ukraine , and internal problems began. the problem of the confrontation, well, that's how it should be said, or the conflict between the military leadership and the political leadership. where there were no grounds for this and it was said that those are unknown, give me the plans, because you don’t why, why do you want to call 400 00, and not 500, and maybe they need less, who are you

to discuss it, there are places for this to be transferred to the political plane, to the public plane, well, it was irresponsibility, i apologize, and among other irresponsibility, which is manifested in today's situation, i know a little about those people who are in poland and in other countries and... there is a different contingent of people there, some left earlier, some have already settled down, got a job, they do not hand in the ukrainian embassy, ​​ukrainian citizenship, yes, a person who is already there works, but wants to return to ukraine, different situations, millions of different situations, and in each one, instead, you strike so viciously with an ax, without analyzing anything, and in fact, in fact, i cause doubt in a lot of people, but i have to hold on. connection with such a country, there are, there are tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of students, and by the 25th year, who are not subject to mobilization at all, the law

itself did not enter into force, why, but, for example, the polish state could help, for example, the ukrainian state, if our state would apply officially to warsaw, for example, there with a request to help put it on the record, for example, i don't know how to return there, and of course, even the deputy prime minister, the minister of defense, said the day before yesterday, it seems that he, that poland is ready contribute on some normal basis, so in the register these citizens in ukraine are in polish the same way, they are employed somewhere, study somewhere and so on, they are given some rights, benefits and so on and so on, so ukraine asks, do you have such citizens, how many are there and so on, well and the polish services say aunt, aunt aunt, so much, so much for such and such, such and such categories, well, you and i will work to see how many of them voluntarily want to return to the ranks of the armed forces of ukraine, well, they say, he wants so much, tens of thousands, yes, well, that's fine which we establish that they will

move to us, we provide them with this and that, well, this is a civilized way, and not in an emergency order, it is not known what, now the photos that people rushed, do not want to serve, or that, instead, this ukraine gained absolute recognition in the world with courage, unity, and this... that wants to defend itself, now this image is being destroyed from attention to the strange actions, i will say so, very gently, strange actions of the ukrainian authorities, which are not the actions of a normal bureaucratic system, the bureaucratic system works according to its own rules, according to laws and so on further, and here it is necessary to prepare people for it, and other countries would be calm, saying: well, you think that you need to do this, we want to help you in this process, to do it according to such and such. everyone knows what awaits them, but this is not the image, my mother, they will throw me there in avdiivka or near avdiivka, and there i will die, well, this is not true, now

the information is late, the command of the ground forces of ukraine, says that the queues lined up in front of the picking centers, then people are normal about it, the state said, oh well a bunch of sociological polls show, in the end, very interestingly, that among men of conscription age... half are either ready to join voluntarily, or they will say, when the draft comes, then we go, half of the men are ready today, well, approach them in a normal civilized way, not in this kind of way that scares you, why is that, i don't understand this approach, well , as they say, we'll wait, we'll see, well, but at one time aldous huxley wrote such an eloquent essay called brave new world for a reason, in any case, thank you very much for talking i want to remind our tv viewers that now... myroslav cheh, historian, publicist, deputy of the polish diet of the second and third term, worked on spresso. thank you. thank you. i congratulate

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zahid with anton. and now the iconic ukrainian politician and diplomat roman bezsmertny will work on the air of the tv channel. glory to ukraine, mr. roman, i congratulate you, glory to the heroes, i congratulate you, mr. antin. well, the key story: the united states identified, the united states signed everything that had to be signed, and president joseph biden even wore a badge, not just an american presidential badge, but... it's symbolic, but the key story is the medium-term prospect of waging war with the aggressor state, the russian federation. here we come to an extremely big dilemma. mr. ambassador, i would ask you to outline it. the question is very interesting and correct, because now in ukraine, in the souls and in the eyes of ukrainians, there are several questions. the first of them is that

last help, next, will there be further help, what will be the help, how long? in this situation, according to the course of events, emotions, i will not refer to everything, few people paid attention to the fact that both during the discussion and in the text of the document itself, there is a direct reference to the need to develop a strategy, that is, from setting a goal to the corresponding steps, which before ... they would fill it with appropriate weapons, technical equipment, tactical parameters, armored vehicles, ammunition and so on, because in fact the most depressing place in this half-yearly discussion was the topic of attacked both the white house and ukraine, show the strategy, or at least, well, let's say, the outlines are certain, well, actually this... began to be developed

and formed as a statement of the problem and the answers to them as early as last fall, when the so-called article appeared , or it was called the interview of the chief of the general staff of general zalozhny, actually, do you remember how much violence was committed then, this scientific work, it was only an addition to what was heard from washington. because at that time he was already the chairman of the chiefs' committee staff, who was leaving and announced that last autumn he would leave, actually said the same thing about the need to develop a strategy, about new approaches, new tools for waging war, and there, if you look at these two materials, they are synchronized and in a strange way for someone, but they are related

to another known one. of the previous year, 2022 , of general zabrodsky and general zaluzhny, these are such snarky things, on which you can further string tactical instruments, well, and under them we can already talk about provision, and this is very important thing, because without answers to these questions it is very difficult to move on after making such a difficult decision, but the first thing i can do is reassure... people who ask the questions i listed above, for example, will it won't, it will, why it will, because bicameral support remained, bipartisan support remained, and everyone understood very well that if this bill, no matter how it was drafted, was put to a vote in october, november, december, january , he would have been voted more, a little less

quantity, but he would be pri'. that is, what we are talking about...