in what to talk about and how to talk, you know, because if you agree to an outcome that creates you a small army there and does not give you any security guarantees, you know, demilitarization with a neutral status, that is actually a recipe for death, and do you remember that at that time the advisor to the president, the office of the president of ukraine, named oristovych, said that the war started because we have an article about nato in our constitution, but what if we didn't have it. about nato, of course, no one would attack us, because you are no threat to us the russian federation was not formed, and this was also a political course that i understand, a huge part of society understood, that maybe we are insulting putin, maybe we are somehow not, we do not take into account his concerns about security, that is what many people in the west still say, you, who serves russian political interests, and the fact that russia somehow did not attack finland, after finland... really,

you know, really joined nato, because we must always remember that the nato integration of ukraine and georgia - it's a phantom, no one yet didn't even invite us, and if there wasn't a war, no one would have invited us, and the integration of finland and sweden into nato is a reality, it happened, and so the president of finland called the president of russia when finland decided to join nato , and... and you know, mr. president, we are joining nato here, and on the other hand, let me know what you are calling me at all, what am i here to join, and join yourself, that is, it is absolutely obvious that this is not the reason , and the reason russia did nothing at all after joining finland to nato. the finnish-russian border is longer than the russian-ukrainian border. they did not even increase the number of troops there beyond the great rakunsk, they did not create any missile armies there, so increase. the border with nato, and

the question always arises, why is the border in the east so important than the border in the west, they were always talking about this flight time, remember, the flight time of missiles, but if russia allows ukraine to be in nato, the flight time the time of missiles, from someone there in kharkiv, you can find out the flight time of missiles stalin, or from the finnish-russian border, which is under... in fact, in reality it will be even shorter, much, not that much, yes, first of all, there are realities, the troops of finland really stood near st. petersburg during the second world war war, the ukrainians who will reach belgorod, chikursk, is a phantom, and the finnish troops that were on the territory of russia, there of the soviet union, is a historical fact. "then why don't you get confused by this,

at all, from the word at all, and if ukraine will be a member of nato, everything will be needed by russia buy yourself that they are white paws and go to the nearest cemetery, we understand how stupid all this is, but i will tell you what the difference is, from where the attack is being prepared, as comrade lukashenko says, because for russia , finland is a real state, she really chose this right for herself, and again, she chose this right for herself because of not only other things. of russia, but stood near leningrad during the second world war, they began to respect it as a subject, and ukraine is not a state at all, but a series of russian regions united in an incomprehensible subjectivity, everything, and we need to realize this, it seems to me that a huge number of our compatriots simply cannot understand this, and they never could understand this, i tried to explain it all the time, understand that people who lived in soviet russia. during the entire existence of the soviet

union, russia itself was considered the soviet union, and the people who lived in soviet ukraine believed that they lived in the soviet union, and most of them, you who lived in the eastern and southern lands of our country, even believed the soviet union is their homeland, but they believed that it is ukraine, not russia, soviet ukraine, but not russia, and this is a completely different formed mentality, there is no way out of this, one should not nurture illusions and believe that... the identity of russians in relation to ukraine will change, at least during the lifetime of those who watch this program, their children and grandchildren, it will not change, the russians, as they believed, still believe and will consider ukraine to be an integral part of the russian state, period, it means that we can do in this situation, only given the opportunity to seize this country, there is no other option, can we come to an agreement with them, the answer is negative, no, can we convince them that ukraine is not russia? no, we can't and we don't, because it's

not our task, let them rewrite the history textbooks for themselves, by the way, completely falsified and invented since the time of karamzin, it didn't start now, it started yet. during the time of alexey mykhailovych, i'm sorry, so what do we have to do for the russians to simply increase the price of aggression so that they think, yes, this is russian land, kyiv, kharkiv and odesa are russian cities, russians live there, they have to speak russian there , but if we go there, we will die, there will be a conflict with the west, a nuclear war, moscow will turn into an image of bulgakov's novel. everything will simply burn, but if they think like that, by the way, about moscow, not about belgrade, if belgrade burns, not a single one, i would say, not even a cat in russia will lead the tail, but moscow, oh, here she is, oh, god forbid, not a single crown should fall from this

cathedral, st. basil's, which, by the way, was built in honor of the destruction of the cauldron, it is not for nothing that it stands there, but in the long run... this is our task, we have no other tasks, we have no other way out, any timeline, what can we say, it will end in the 20s and 30s, we don't know when, the whole life of modern ukrainians and their children may continue, in various forms of low intensity, high intensity, let's join nato, it will end. all these negotiations are just a sham, a sham with the aim of destabilizing ukrainian society and annexing the territory of ukraine. to russia, full stop, and this must be clearly understood, i admit that there will even be some negotiation process, but it will end in success only if russia manages to lay these traps in peace agreements. moreover, mr. vitaly, we must understand that in reality it

is far from putin, as some people think, because some people think, relatively speaking, that it is putin, what, what is here, that there is essentially only putin, so so to speak, it is supposedly in... the embodiment of this evil, and i always say that no, in fact, it is far from putin, the point is in russia itself, in the concept of its existence, in the historical roots of its existence, in its imperial and neo-imperial politics, and in fact, whether putin will be there tomorrow or not, whether putin will not be there tomorrow, the situation is unlikely to change in russia, we must understand that this the system that is there today, it is, it should be either dismantled. completely, that is, this state entity in its current form must be dismantled, or there will be a conditionally new putin, no matter what his last name is? well, look, we, the historical experience of development of russia suggests that the russian government can be reformatted. so, realistically speaking,

there may be a moment when russia is faced with its own problems, when it is not interested in the outside world, or does not have the strength to influence it, there is always a window of opportunity, but for us there was a window of opportunity, it is very simple, it calls... 1991-2001, relatively speaking, from the putsch on august 24, 1991 to the end of the war in the caucasus, this is a window of opportunity, how we used it, well, except that we declared independence, all subsequent decisions were the same. we did not become absolutely failures, failures, according to one'. of the north atlantic alliance, we did not want to get closer to nato, moreover, the vast majority of our compatriots with you were opponents of euro-atlantic integration, even in 2004, when yushchenko came to power, when time was already lost, to be honest, people

were still against it , if in georgia they were in favor, there was also a waste of time, but they were in favor, and in our country they were still against, it must be remembered that the vast majority of the inhabitants of the destroyed today. cities and towns of the east for decades, ukraine has voted for pro-russian populist forces, this is wasted time for the entire nation. and now let's see what our neighbors, whom we now reproach for not helping us enough, have done precisely in this window of opportunity. central europe and the baltic countries, they joined nato, they joined the european union, they housed western military bases. poland can now talk about the fact that it... will host american nuclear weapons, respectively, russian provocations in belarus, that is, the european nations have lived through this window opportunities the way it was supposed to be lived, ukrainians lived this window of opportunities completely incompetently, and again,

they talked about it in the 90s, it’s not that i say it now, i wrote it for every day of independence, not in the past auditions, didn't get into the studio, didn't fulfill, don't fulfill the decalogue, i'm just tired of saying things. which were clear to every child, only on the majority of our compatriots with you, who stubbornly, if they suddenly voted for someone who was a supporter, turned out, was not, turned out a supporter independent development, they quickly got rid of him, he was the number one enemy for them, such was the fate of leonid kravchuk, viktor yushchenko and petro poroshenko, that's all, and we reached collapse, fiasco, and war. now, what can happen next? of course, there is no military way out of this process yet, but it may one day be found, at least in a low -intensity war. there may be a change in russia, andrei, and then the question is that she knows... there will be a window of opportunity, it won't be long, uh, it could be there for 10 years, then russia

will again demonstrate its imperial aggression, when you live next door to a country like russia, a former continental empire that fails to win the civilizational contest, you have to realize that at some point this sense of imperial aggression will prevail over common sense, because you you see that everything they do is unhealthy. out loud, they're destroying their own economy again, they're destroying their own societal ability to grow, they're destroying their own economic assets, they're shutting down these oil wells because they can’t develop them, that’s idiocy, but they did the same thing after 1917, they just cut off certain, i don’t know, organs themselves with scissors all the time, and it’s not extreme , so in this respect it must be clearly understood , if we succeed in the future , those who will remain here, you are in the territory that will remain, we do not know the number

of the population, nor the territory, nor its fate, well, let's say there after some time, i don't know when it will be, maybe like this the situation will be created in 2025, or maybe 2040, i don't know, no one now does not know what it will look like if we do not use it, secondly, this is a window of opportunity, thirdly, because the first time we could use it in the period of 200. there on the 17th of the year 1920 and it is also needless to say that no one didn't use it, they also used it, someone was able to use it, but we couldn't, because again there was discord, misunderstanding of the task, confidence that it was possible to negotiate with moscow, everything was the same, you remember that the future head was sitting here in kyiv khristiyan rakovskyi, councilor of soviet ukraine, and he simultaneously conducted negotiations with the leadership of the ukrainian state, pavlo skorapatsky, and negotiations with the former head... of the central council, volodymyr vinnychenko, about the overthrow of the government of pavlo skorapatsky, but vinnychenko had already talked to him, they

talked about all this, that is, they believed that an agreement could be reached with a bigger k, that is, it was all the same, so they didn’t use it then, they didn’t use it now, but fortunately we already exist for three years, and 303, and from this situation, if we don’t use this window of opportunity again, it will end up as a state crash, sooner or later later this state will disappear from... the political map of the world, because it can't be like this, it can't be every time history gives you a chance, to me, the struggle for ukrainian independence, frankly , reminds me of this anecdote about a person who dreamed of winning the lottery , they asked god why you don't let me win, they went to church all the time and god, not vitra, said, buy a lottery ticket, well, it's the same thing, we are always given a chance, god is merciful to ukrainians. gives them a chance, and they start thinking all the time how to get in

who should be dragged into an apartment in the old khrushchevka, because you have to live a lot, and how else is it better than a neighbor, and until such a mentality exists, the existence of the ukrainian state is not guaranteed, again, because we are opposite a country in which the value of human life... is zero, in which the authorities specifically marginalize most of the territory so that there are soldiers, what do you think, this is just the way this mobilization goes in russia, i assure you, they sat with the ministers of the economic bloc back in 2014 , and asked them if people would go to war, and them they said, what are they going to do, it means that the level of purchasing power of the population must be reduced, we rejoiced every time when the russians were getting poorer, but they got to the buche and to the warts, and there they were right in their

eyes got on their foreheads, because they soon saw wealth, what wealth, ordinary life, wipers and vacuum cleaners, and now imagine that if this guy from this buryat or kalmyd or russian village would have lived there normally, would have received normal money, had if i had money for an apartment or a mortgage, i would have this washing machine, and this... a vacuum cleaner that he would buy for himself on some alibaba, as it is called, why the hell would he go to the army at all, but he didn't go, he wouldn't go, of course, that means these people. they think strategically, ten years ahead, they understand how to prepare the population when there is only one choice, either to go to war or to military service, go to war, that's the whole story for you, and these are actually completely realistic assessments, perhaps pessimistically, realistic for some, but in fact such is

life, and such are the realities of our country, and until we understand it... until the end, until then moment, we will repeat the mistakes of the past, because they always always say in principle that we must take into account all the mistakes of the past in order to have the present to have a future, we do not take into account the mistakes of the past, we do not have a future, everything, and you were absolutely right and about the 90s, and in the end, a lot of things were similarly erased. a lot of time and in zero and even in fact we are getting up to 2014, i mentioned that even if we now open the ratings and look in 2013 , most people were against nato in the 13th year the 13th year, how many years is it, 22 years of independence today, today, by the way

, april 20, 7 is the anniversary of the ratification of the kharkiv agreements by the verkhovna rada of ukraine. well, this is one more, one more proof of how wrongly we moved and how far we are today, and i say once again, today and in the future we must take all this into account, well, yes, because even the people did not even gather near the parliament, no one was interested these kharkiv agreements, although it was already the end, and now, the other day, i read the memoirs of a well-known ukrainian diplomat leonid osovalyuk, whom i have known since the time when he was the consul general in moscow, and everything worked out for me too. he tells how he, as a representative of the ministry of foreign affairs, during kuchma's time had to ratify the agreement on the demarcation in the sea of ​​azov, and how he was brought the russian draft before the meeting between kuchma and putin, and was told that it was necessary to ratify the russian draft, which

actually created it is for this sea of ​​azov, the internal sea of ​​russia, which happened as a result. and as he said he would not to sign, and viktor medvedchuk and anatoly orel, the deputy head of the administration of the president of ukraine, for foreign policy, in which everyone considered people connected to the kremlin, not to ukraine, both of them, and these are the people who manage the administration of the president, they they said, no, get a visa, and leonid kuchma turned out to be the only person who said no without a visa to the ministry of foreign affairs, i will not sign anything, but this, listen, but this is because kuchma was not... kuchma wanted to maneuver all the time, and if he was would be yanukovych, everything was signed in general in russian, and for me i remembered how i myself was present at the negotiations on the demarcation of the sea of ​​azov, in other times, when he came to moscow, our deputy minister of foreign affairs, anton buteyka, this was before sovalyuk, and we did not

have sea borders with russia at all, as you know, and they never appeared, and he brought to these negotiations such maps of the general... headquarters of the armed forces of russia, the soviet union, i apologize, because on these maps, unlike the others, the maritime border was drawn, and the deputy minister of foreign affairs russian federation, i told him, and what is the significance of the map of the general staff, what kind of map is it? and i see that they are simply mocking this unfortunate representative of ours, that is , russia knew for sure that it is impossible to draw any borders in the sea of ​​azov, because they already then. then they had in their heads that sooner or later they would have to capture mariupol and berdyansk, which means they need their ships to be able to legitimately and legally get right under our ports, and they achieved this, by the way, they achieved it in crimea renewal of the black sea fleet during

yanukovych's time, the fact that they were creating such positions for themselves all the time, in fact, once again dragged this mess onto our shoulders. and we laughed at ourselves and said that it should be like that, i will remember for the rest of my life a whole propaganda campaign that was against me in the early 90s, because i perceived it differently then than today, i was a very young person when i said that if we agree on cheap gas with russia, we will never have a normal economy, we will never have a normal state, that we will be completely dependent on the russian attitude. and by the way, look at the map of europe right now, in those countries where russian gas continues to make up 50% of the total energy balance there, these are hungary and slovakia, right there. all pro-russian forces are triumphing, but look, let's look at ukraine, where all these gas issues created a whole, i would

say, network of people interested in relations with russia, and not only in the east and south. where is the main ukrainian university of oil and gas specialists? well, you know where, as far as i understand. this is the west of our country, because these main compressor stations were there, that is, in fact, we are witnesses of how, step by step, pebble by pebble, this foundation was created, the foundation of the occupation of ukraine, yes, yes, they prepared the occupation of ukraine in various ways, and economic, and political, and cultural, and informational, we also have to talk about this, and this issue has been raised in essence only since 2014 about the information occupation, what lies, what propaganda poured into people's heads,

to the extent that they tried to connect us with this russian world, so that a part of people who could at least perceive it, so that they felt that they belonged to this russian world, of course, but again, it all started just when russia. .. the czechs came to power and understood how to work with all this, how to use the potential of russian tv channels, which were watched by a huge number of our compatriots in order to instill all their ideas into their lives. and what happened before that? i came to in kyiv, i remember dmytro kiselyov, and working on the ictv tv channel, where i also hosted a program for a short time, and dmytro kiselyov said to me: "vitali, you know, i have a dream, here i am presenting my programs about how it's great to live." in europe, well, he made a whole cycle of programs for russian television about the european way of life, and i say that’s great, and what, they should be shown to the ukrainians, that the ukrainians knew that the future

of their country was in europe, i say, well, they should be shown, of course, but before that, dmytro tells me, they need to be translated into ukrainian language, you don't want it to be in russian, ukrainians should look at their future in their native language so that it is convincing, so that they see that this is their future, and not just a russian journalist telling them about something in russian, this is the same... and dmytro kiselyov, who now goes to the ramp in russian propaganda channels and says that we must all be destroyed, burned, radioactive ash, all that, so if you don't have this curator from lubyanka , you can think like, let's say, a healthy person have your own views, and as soon as you are taken and reminded, you are a soldier of the information front, comrade dmytro kiselyov or comrade volodymyr solovyov, i am not talking about these... this is generally true, then of course you serve in this army, but how many of our your colleagues were part of this system, on all these channels,

firtash and medvedchuk channels, that only russian channels processed our compatriots, and i actually lead to this, that we, and in what language do you write now, do all these anonymous telegram channels related office of the president, is it possible? russian is understandable, because they are, were and will be scoops, the question arises, if you even want to work with public opinion, why don't you do it in ukrainian, because in russian we speak ourselves, we are our own people, we will not be in anonymous tv channels to pretend that we are with you, well, how to say it, some ukrainian nationalists there. well , of course, why do we need it? that is the whole essence of these people, and these people are now , by and large, collectively deciding whether this country will exist or not, because we

we talk a lot about the armed forces, of course, if it were not for the resistance of the armed forces, then of course ukraine would have long been a russian province, but in order for ukraine to survive, an effective understanding of the state and all these challenges is needed, this is an important point, you mentioned china, and i think we need to mention it, we need to... basically , we need to mention this triangle that is being actively, actively used now, which is the united states of america, china and russia, so we should now be talking about the visit of anthony blinken, the us secretary of state to china it is very interesting, and we should talk now about china's support for russia, including china, and you also mentioned china, including in the context of these conditional agreements, possible, that

the russians are trying to push through. .. china, this is also very interesting, but in your opinion, is china currently imposing this russian agenda and certain russian postulates for possible agreements that russia would actually like, so to speak, to advance, at least through the means of mass information i think china is not interested in that, china is interested in interception diplomatic initiative, now it is obvious that this peace forum will be held in switzerland in the mountains, and, by the way, not only president zelensky can come to it, let's say the leaders of various european countries can also come there, president biden can be there, this is such a diplomatic the thing is, we all get together and condemn russia together, call on it to end the war, this is about the level of irritation that the russians have always had on the crimean platform, it seemed to us, and why are they

rehearsing so much, they... no one is taking crimea anymore, and it is unpleasant for them that this whole idea of ​​theirs, that everyone admits that they have the right, it fails, but it turns out that it is possible to hold a crimean platform, then various heads of state will come, even those who are on good terms with him, president erdogan, and say, we consider crimea to be ukrainian, and we continue like this believe that this is a diplomatic defeat, russia, of course, wants to prevent this diplomatic defeat, how can it not do anything in this situation? "it can act through china. chinese representatives initially, when they started talking to them about participating in the peace forum, began to insist on so that there was a russian delegation headed by sergei lavrov. we said it practically without hiding it. there are publications in various publications, both western and non-western, so it's uh, it's absolutely such an obvious thing,

it seems, when..." they're trying to push russia in there, knowing that it's not going to be there, and then they can say, you know , you didn't invite russia, we won't come either, why should we go there, but at the same time, it's not enough, then china says, you know, in fact, these are all not real conferences, a real conference where moscow and kyiv will be held, and if you cannot provide it in switzerland, then i think that this is a matter of our initiative, we will make a platform. where you can hold your negotiations, real negotiations, real negotiations, they will be if the russians and ukrainians go to china to meet with their, how to say, opponents, enemies, to be precise, and they actually force everyone to discuss it, because they can hold another conference, let's say there will be a peace forum in

switzerland. and some forum in china, where not there will be ukraine, because we will refuse to go there, because russia will be there, if we go there, it will be strange, true, but half of the countries of the global south that were at the forum in switzerland can go there, and thus the very results of the forum will be devalued, these countries will already know that they have to go there, they will be very careful in terms of making any decisions there. there will be some vague resolution, and then they will have the same level of vague resolution for peace and friendship, by all means, pass on these alternative conference, this is what moscow wants to achieve through the mediation of beijing, beijing also absolutely does not need moscow's diplomatic defeat, that's all, that's why they act synchronously, as we can see absolutely, i would say confidently in this situation, because lavrov praises the chinese peace plan all the time , which does not exist, but

the idea of ​​a peace plan... relatively speaking, and a global rooster, it is very simple, it can be reduced to two theses: a ceasefire on the contact line where the parties are, if russia is ready for it, and cancellation sanctions, to pay for the ceasefire by canceling sanctions, i.e. a de facto freeze and a de facto big plus for russia, of course in favor. the west can also think about a freeze, but with the continuation of sanctions, that's the difference, in fact, you don't want to agree on anything, so we understand that now both sides are exhausted, the conflict is frozen, a truce, but the sanctions will be lifted when you fulfill all guidelines of international law, if you leave donbas, there will be one lifting of sanctions, if you leave crimea, there will be another level of lifting of sanctions, if you fire.

uh